Losing Limbs - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Losing Limbs

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
korik1
Mar 02, 2009 15:56:22 This sort of came up in my group at our last session. The party were fighting a deadly foe who used a greatsword. He rolled a crit and hit the martial artist for 22 damage. The thought didn't cross my mind, but afterwards the martial artist and the other players said that they were wondering if that blow was gonna cost the MA a limb. The MA said she wouldn't have been surprised if I "had pulled such a dick move", so obviously she's against it, but I was wondering if any of you have limb loss in your games, when it occurs, and how you handle it.
#2
DwarfFighter
Mar 02, 2009 17:01:34 The rules do not take this into account, so that's up to the GM and the players.

The d6 Star Wars game by West End allowed an attacker to cause the loss of a limb instead of death if he scored a "kill" result against an enemy, and it was reasoned that the Jedi would likely consider dismemberment more morally acceptable than killing. this would certainly be the case in a setting where functional prostetic limbs are readily available.

I'd recommend not applying this kind of persistent damage unless the particular player is ok with it. For some characters it can be kinda cool - it's often easier to portray a character by looking at his weaknesses (i.e. low strength or intelligence, a missing hand or eye, that sort of thing).

-DF
#3
backstabbist
Mar 02, 2009 19:01:27 Limb loss gaming aint so bad,
just refer tthe Wheelchair Thread
#4
malbur
Mar 02, 2009 19:04:24 Of course the martial artist would dread losing a limb! Unfortunately, at times it's reasonable that people would... as a result, i feel it should be fit into the game but used carefully so as not to punish a character who is undeserving...
#5
senko
Mar 02, 2009 21:43:09 My personal preference is to use a mixture of the critical hit tables from dark heresy and wound points.

Essentially I work it as follows con = wound points which is how physically tough you are and when its reduced to zero you die end of story (essentially they replace the dead at - 10 rule.)

Vitality points still exist as Die roll + con mod and you can't do any damage to wound points till vitality is gone (depending on the group I somtimes introduce the rule 3 natural 20's in a row does normal damage to wound points instead of double damage to vitality).

The amount of wound points lost in a single attack determines how bad the damage is. If you only lose 1 your not really affected, if you lose 8+ you make a saving throw (again a variant depending on group is no saving throw just instant death) vs DC of damage dealt or die on a 5 or 6 (don't remember off the top of my head) you may lose an arm, leg or eye depending on what damage type (explosive, ballistic, slashing) and location hit.

High con (for all creatures which is why non-humans are often so hard to kill) affects this e.g. if you had 20 con you would be able to take 2 damage for every 1 a normal human could e.g. only lose an eye on after losing 10 wound points in one hit rather than 5.
#6
rhialto
Mar 03, 2009 17:31:48 Have yopu checked behind the sofa? I find I often lose my limbs there.
#7
prax
Mar 06, 2009 5:23:35 if u look in the heroes guide of star wars d20
there is a rule for when u get two natural crits
than u roll to see whats lost
works really well
only thing is dealing with that player after the limb is lost and maybe (depending on your setting )
getting it back
#8
atanakar
Mar 06, 2009 5:56:05 Don't go that way unless your campaign has cybernetics.

What you could do is apply a temporary to hit penalty for the limb in question. Duration of the penalty could range from a couple of rounds to «until character receives treatment in a medical facility». I must point out that if you do that to characters, players will expect to be able to do the same to adversaries... ;)

OR

You could check the damage threshold conditions chart in the Star Wars Saga Edition. Works wells for me.
#9
senko
Mar 07, 2009 3:59:29 You also run into the problem of players who seek out every option to increase their crit range, I know someone who could get it down to a 13-20 is a critical hit.
#10
Waylan_Wolf
Mar 15, 2009 12:56:51 D20 Future has a mutation drawback called lost limb (or something like that)... Anyway the mutation description provides the mechanical penalties of a lost limb.
D20 Apocalypse has a mutation Drawback called monocular vision. The description of the mutation provides the mechanical penalties for losing an eye.
As far as adjudicating whether a limb is lost or not...

I'd say that whenever a character would be brought to less than -10 hp from a single attack from a slashing weapon, the PC can choose to lose a limb and be reduced to 0 hp instead.
#11
winternova
Mar 15, 2009 13:17:20 I've got a house rule that works quite similar to Waylan Wolf's limb loss suggestion. We like to call it 'a lesser man would have died.'

With ALMWHD, a hero who would be reduced to negative HP as a result of an attack may, once per combat, announce 'a lesser man would have died' and negate the damage in place of a debilitating injury. Eyes have been lost, people have been stricken blind, lost limbs. Partial paralysis and disembowlment have also been known to occur, but hey - a lesser man would have died!

For the actual effect of the lost limb, I use the mutation stats as suggested above.
#12
narukagami
Mar 15, 2009 16:48:26 The d20 Starship Troopers game by Mongoose has a decent "Grievous Wounds" system that replaces Modern's Massive Damage rules. If I remember right it also has an optional rule for lost limbs.

I honestly recommend against these kinds of rules unless
A) Your setting has some form of replacing readily available, like cybernetics.
And/Or
B) Your players are mature enough to handle bad things happening to their characters.
#13
backstabbist
Mar 15, 2009 17:10:13 Permanent Injury with ability loss only affects PCs.
NPCs usually dont live long enough to worry about having a -10Spot and 3xMoveCost from the injuries that got 4 levels ago.

However, should the GM from now on include some % of NPCs with the same diminished capacities as the PCs... well who wouldnt like to encounter the OneArmed Ninja with TWF ATWF and a pair of daggers.

That, or the obvious quick fix is a 25% XP Bonus for the one armed guy,
since all his fights are with him at a Disadvantage
#14
malbur
Mar 15, 2009 17:33:16 just a thought... if you lose a limb (works better with an arm than a leg) do you get a bonus to defense because you can't get hit in that arm any more? Obviously it would have it's negatives outweigh the positive but perhaps a small bonus chance of not getting hurt from projectiles?

Also, just because your limb is cut off doesn't mean it can't be reattached... just means getting to the hospital and sitting out of the campaign for a bit of time (in game) or just have it sit still until things heal... right?
#15
rhialto
Mar 15, 2009 18:01:33
just a thought... if you lose a limb (works better with an arm than a leg) do you get a bonus to defense because you can't get hit in that arm any more? Obviously it would have it's negatives outweigh the positive but perhaps a small bonus chance of not getting hurt from projectiles?

Also, just because your limb is cut off doesn't mean it can't be reattached... just means getting to the hospital and sitting out of the campaign for a bit of time (in game) or just have it sit still until things heal... right?

I don't believe modern medical science has yet reached the point where a severed arm can be re-attached and have any significant functionality. Possibly in the future, but not yet. And possibly if the arm is merely badly mangled but still hanging on by a thread.
#16
malbur
Mar 15, 2009 18:38:47 i'm pretty sure you can if you're lucky (and we all know the PCs are always lucky) and it'll be functional. problem is it takes a good deal of rehab to do that...
#17
backstabbist
Mar 15, 2009 18:43:04 I cite Homer getting his thumb sewn back on by Legs the Mobster Medic,
so we do have a valid precedent ;)
#18
winternova
Mar 16, 2009 0:23:36
I cite Homer getting his thumb sewn back on by Legs the Mobster Medic,
so we do have a valid precedent ;)

At first I read 'lobster medic' and thought 'sweet! simpsons/futurama crossover!'
#19
Waylan_Wolf
Mar 17, 2009 12:42:31 I also agree that unless you have a really mature group of hardcore roleplayers, you should make sure that there is some way to replace/regrow/reattach a lost limb. I also want to point out that the house rule I suggested should also apply to damage from explosives, and possibly collisions.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 korik1 Mar 02, 2009 15:56:22	This sort of came up in my group at our last session. The party were fighting a deadly foe who used a greatsword. He rolled a crit and hit the martial artist for 22 damage. The thought didn't cross my mind, but afterwards the martial artist and the other players said that they were wondering if that blow was gonna cost the MA a limb. The MA said she wouldn't have been surprised if I "had pulled such a dick move", so obviously she's against it, but I was wondering if any of you have limb loss in your games, when it occurs, and how you handle it.
#2 DwarfFighter Mar 02, 2009 17:01:34	The rules do not take this into account, so that's up to the GM and the players. The d6 Star Wars game by West End allowed an attacker to cause the loss of a limb instead of death if he scored a "kill" result against an enemy, and it was reasoned that the Jedi would likely consider dismemberment more morally acceptable than killing. this would certainly be the case in a setting where functional prostetic limbs are readily available. I'd recommend not applying this kind of persistent damage unless the particular player is ok with it. For some characters it can be kinda cool - it's often easier to portray a character by looking at his weaknesses (i.e. low strength or intelligence, a missing hand or eye, that sort of thing). -DF
#3 backstabbist Mar 02, 2009 19:01:27	Limb loss gaming aint so bad, just refer tthe Wheelchair Thread
#4 malbur Mar 02, 2009 19:04:24	Of course the martial artist would dread losing a limb! Unfortunately, at times it's reasonable that people would... as a result, i feel it should be fit into the game but used carefully so as not to punish a character who is undeserving...
#5 senko Mar 02, 2009 21:43:09	My personal preference is to use a mixture of the critical hit tables from dark heresy and wound points. Essentially I work it as follows con = wound points which is how physically tough you are and when its reduced to zero you die end of story (essentially they replace the dead at - 10 rule.) Vitality points still exist as Die roll + con mod and you can't do any damage to wound points till vitality is gone (depending on the group I somtimes introduce the rule 3 natural 20's in a row does normal damage to wound points instead of double damage to vitality). The amount of wound points lost in a single attack determines how bad the damage is. If you only lose 1 your not really affected, if you lose 8+ you make a saving throw (again a variant depending on group is no saving throw just instant death) vs DC of damage dealt or die on a 5 or 6 (don't remember off the top of my head) you may lose an arm, leg or eye depending on what damage type (explosive, ballistic, slashing) and location hit. High con (for all creatures which is why non-humans are often so hard to kill) affects this e.g. if you had 20 con you would be able to take 2 damage for every 1 a normal human could e.g. only lose an eye on after losing 10 wound points in one hit rather than 5.
#6 rhialto Mar 03, 2009 17:31:48	Have yopu checked behind the sofa? I find I often lose my limbs there.
#7 prax Mar 06, 2009 5:23:35	if u look in the heroes guide of star wars d20 there is a rule for when u get two natural crits than u roll to see whats lost works really well only thing is dealing with that player after the limb is lost and maybe (depending on your setting ) getting it back
#8 atanakar Mar 06, 2009 5:56:05	Don't go that way unless your campaign has cybernetics. What you could do is apply a temporary to hit penalty for the limb in question. Duration of the penalty could range from a couple of rounds to «until character receives treatment in a medical facility». I must point out that if you do that to characters, players will expect to be able to do the same to adversaries... ;) OR You could check the damage threshold conditions chart in the Star Wars Saga Edition. Works wells for me.
#9 senko Mar 07, 2009 3:59:29	You also run into the problem of players who seek out every option to increase their crit range, I know someone who could get it down to a 13-20 is a critical hit.
#10 Waylan_Wolf Mar 15, 2009 12:56:51	D20 Future has a mutation drawback called lost limb (or something like that)... Anyway the mutation description provides the mechanical penalties of a lost limb. D20 Apocalypse has a mutation Drawback called monocular vision. The description of the mutation provides the mechanical penalties for losing an eye. As far as adjudicating whether a limb is lost or not... I'd say that whenever a character would be brought to less than -10 hp from a single attack from a slashing weapon, the PC can choose to lose a limb and be reduced to 0 hp instead.
#11 winternova Mar 15, 2009 13:17:20	I've got a house rule that works quite similar to Waylan Wolf's limb loss suggestion. We like to call it 'a lesser man would have died.' With ALMWHD, a hero who would be reduced to negative HP as a result of an attack may, once per combat, announce 'a lesser man would have died' and negate the damage in place of a debilitating injury. Eyes have been lost, people have been stricken blind, lost limbs. Partial paralysis and disembowlment have also been known to occur, but hey - a lesser man would have died! For the actual effect of the lost limb, I use the mutation stats as suggested above.
#12 narukagami Mar 15, 2009 16:48:26	The d20 Starship Troopers game by Mongoose has a decent "Grievous Wounds" system that replaces Modern's Massive Damage rules. If I remember right it also has an optional rule for lost limbs. I honestly recommend against these kinds of rules unless A) Your setting has some form of replacing readily available, like cybernetics. And/Or B) Your players are mature enough to handle bad things happening to their characters.
#13 backstabbist Mar 15, 2009 17:10:13	Permanent Injury with ability loss only affects PCs. NPCs usually dont live long enough to worry about having a -10Spot and 3xMoveCost from the injuries that got 4 levels ago. However, should the GM from now on include some % of NPCs with the same diminished capacities as the PCs... well who wouldnt like to encounter the OneArmed Ninja with TWF ATWF and a pair of daggers. That, or the obvious quick fix is a 25% XP Bonus for the one armed guy, since all his fights are with him at a Disadvantage
#14 malbur Mar 15, 2009 17:33:16	just a thought... if you lose a limb (works better with an arm than a leg) do you get a bonus to defense because you can't get hit in that arm any more? Obviously it would have it's negatives outweigh the positive but perhaps a small bonus chance of not getting hurt from projectiles? Also, just because your limb is cut off doesn't mean it can't be reattached... just means getting to the hospital and sitting out of the campaign for a bit of time (in game) or just have it sit still until things heal... right?
#15 rhialto Mar 15, 2009 18:01:33	just a thought... if you lose a limb (works better with an arm than a leg) do you get a bonus to defense because you can't get hit in that arm any more? Obviously it would have it's negatives outweigh the positive but perhaps a small bonus chance of not getting hurt from projectiles? Also, just because your limb is cut off doesn't mean it can't be reattached... just means getting to the hospital and sitting out of the campaign for a bit of time (in game) or just have it sit still until things heal... right? I don't believe modern medical science has yet reached the point where a severed arm can be re-attached and have any significant functionality. Possibly in the future, but not yet. And possibly if the arm is merely badly mangled but still hanging on by a thread.
#16 malbur Mar 15, 2009 18:38:47	i'm pretty sure you can if you're lucky (and we all know the PCs are always lucky) and it'll be functional. problem is it takes a good deal of rehab to do that...
#17 backstabbist Mar 15, 2009 18:43:04	I cite Homer getting his thumb sewn back on by Legs the Mobster Medic, so we do have a valid precedent ;)
#18 winternova Mar 16, 2009 0:23:36	I cite Homer getting his thumb sewn back on by Legs the Mobster Medic, so we do have a valid precedent ;) At first I read 'lobster medic' and thought 'sweet! simpsons/futurama crossover!'
#19 Waylan_Wolf Mar 17, 2009 12:42:31	I also agree that unless you have a really mature group of hardcore roleplayers, you should make sure that there is some way to replace/regrow/reattach a lost limb. I also want to point out that the house rule I suggested should also apply to damage from explosives, and possibly collisions.