Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 dbay Oct 02, 2009 23:18:44	In my campaign, an (extremely) powerful empire has a legion of supersoldiers, Warhammer 40k spacemarine/Halo Spartan style. (Not the superheavy armour, the madly skilled and cyborg enhanced soldier part). I'm the DM, but recently in our group we've had issues with DMs fiatting things into GMPC and railroad issues, so everything I do should be largely RAW (but I can make judgement calls, of course, and tweak things for the campaign.) because we (myself included) are fed up with DM cheating. Here's the premise: A mighty empire whose military is largely decentralised has an army of elite soldiers loyal directly to the emperor, which keeps the country in line- nobody is willing to challenge the Legion. At first, I was going to just make them fairly high level warriors, but now I'm thinking I want something a little cooler. Is there a good race/class combo (possibly template?) for an effective primarily melee fighter? I'm thinking somewhere in the vicinity of ECL 10, but that can change for a beautiful build that needs a few more levels. The empire has pretty good access to magic, so is there any decent way to spell-enhance them permenantly? The best I can come up with are a few minor utility buffs using permenancy, like darkvision. A few restrictions: no tome of battle (my group hates it stylistically and we don't have it anyways), preferably the soldiers shouldn't have much if anything in the way of spellcasting, no polymorphing, and nothing particularily silly. Coolness is important. Also, we play Pathfinder, so if you aren't familiar it's pretty similar except with a feat every odd level instead of every three. There are some more new feats, too. Any ideas? I don't need entire builds, just some concepts, classes, and such and I can flesh out the rest.
#2 backstabbist Oct 03, 2009 8:16:43	What tech level / pL? Even in a PL5+ game, you can get more out of ECL with hero levels than you can from template LA.  A lot of 'cool features' can be done with equipment rather than magic or LA.. NIghtvision is no more than IR/LI helmet.  Even with todays tech, mix the 70's starwars plastic Stormysuits with CF/Kevlar technology, IR/LI helmets, automedic trauma abatement, microwave "Skinburner"s and "CS as chaff" and Tazerfinger for making melee unfair... that would be a lot of LA to try to incorporate but is just Toys for high hero level guys Sure, you can and probably should boost the LA  if you can show how these guys became/are not just human, but I wouldnt go more than just +2 maybe +3 LA because you give up too much BAB etc
#3 dbay Oct 03, 2009 13:06:56	Right! I completely forgot most of the campaign info. So: it's a weird sort of blend of everything, ever. PL 5 standard, but with a lot of stuff imported from D&D. I'm going to post a mirror ofthis thread on the D&D boards so they can help too. The thing is, the PL5 is a little off because its in a world with magic that's always been there- sort of like, if you take a typical D&D game and move it a few thousand years later. So a tank, for example, might have a magic item that casts fireball instead of a pintle-mounted M2HB (for example) but will probably keep the main cannon (because it is way better than any fireball, ever). So all material from both games are completely open, except future (duh). Some future classes might be brought in at request because they are about on par with some of the D&D ones. Some of the more tame future equipment or gadgets, too, if it can be justified that magic research would help advance that area of science faster than just straight science would. Giving them really cool modern tech is excellent- what's "microwave "Skinburner"s and "CS as chaff""? If there are no rules for it already written, (i don't think there are) you'll have to help me with statting
#4 backstabbist Oct 03, 2009 23:41:52	I may not be up on the latest D&D spells but I would have to imagine spells have not grown in Range so much that they can come close to a 375m-416m or 50bmg   Everyone knows you have to put sugar in soda to make it sweet. I mean, you have to put Corn Syrup in soda to make it sweet. I mean, you can put saccarin in soda to make it sweet. Just as everuone knows you have to put Eye of Newt in a potion to makeit Heal. I mean, you have to put this certain Amino Acid in a potion to make  it Heal. I mean, you have to put DiEthylCarbonate in a potion to make it Heal, and that potion now comes in 2liter bottles of 16 doses for $7.99 thanks to all the artificial ingredients and mass production lowering the cost.  Ever seen the price of REAL maple syrup vs standard stuff called maple syrup in america?   You know what ZappityBamf Industries does with all them 5th level mages in their mexican factory? They dont spit out 170 Wands per Hour by hiring barmaids.  Some mages spend hours if not days crafting a perfect sphere made of glass, then polishing it to .... yeah we got that- this baby does 21 spheres an hour polished first with .27mil abrasive then ultrasonic buffing in 9micron solution Why assume that as we advance in mundane sciences, we didnt advance in the magical arts? First we collect a pool of Mana, then stimulate the Mana to an excited state by bombardment of radical particle radiation, and use this Plasmana to mechanically cast energy blasts at 650 rpm autofire
#5 dbay Oct 04, 2009 0:17:44	I think a major use for magic is as a cooling device- an autocasting chill touch would keep anything from overheating-computers, nuke reactors (maybe more than chill touch), machine guns, whatever. I like the mass production plan, but wouldnt starving 5th level mages in mexico take matters into their own hands?
#6 backstabbist Oct 04, 2009 9:12:04	Who said they were starving? They get a fair wage to work in factory that doesnt have the EPA and PETA looking into everything they do. The problem is, automation has saturated the magic market that prices have been driven down.  Sure there are custom wandsmiths out there, just like custom gunsmiths, but the overwhelming majority of wands/gun purchased by folks are the mass produced ones that cost 1/2 to 1/10th the price of the handmade ones.   Will automobiles still use internal combustion engines, or will they have a jug & shaft that spins perpetually via Push that will eliminate the whole hydrocarbon effect on the environment Smog/Greenhaus?  Silently, smoglessly, costlessly, 24/7/365 the shaft in your car spins in Park or Neutral, waiting for you to put it in gear and go. The corner gas stations wont exist in a world that uses permanently charged transportation.  We are entering a dangerous precedent with the availability of Permanent spelled objects- if we sy cheap objects will have permanent effects (like the Chill laptop heatsink) that will set a upper bound of how much having a permanent effect can cost: If we know a $500 laptop includes Permanency, then we know Permanency has to cost less than $500. By the time we assume the cost of the nonperm part of the laptop, we are left with just $100-$200 for the Permanency Then, in a world where Permanency is just $100, and machines can reduce magic item production times & costs to 1/2 or 1/10th, we would have to re-evaluate the entire Cost Of Magic system we use in game now/d&d. Cause I would hate to have to pay $1000 for ChillTouch but PermamnetChill is just $100 Magicized materiel would either be so expensive that the masses cant buy it (walmart wont be selling Permachill Laptops for $9000 while the same laptop is $400 mundane), or magic will be cheapened by its proliferation ( ZappityBamf discount wands, Permacars, 2ltr of Potions)
#7 kronos182 Oct 04, 2009 11:45:57	If magic has progressed a thousand years or more, and has become more prolific over the years along side science, maybe there are alternates to permancy? Like a Semi permanent version. Requiring a recharge of mana/recasting that's slightly more expensive than just casting the non permanent version, but cheaper than full permanent. We have to assume that with at least 1000 years to advance, magic has to be cheaper, maybe not so cheap that even with mass production it's as cheap as mundane, but make it a vaiable option for the upper middle and higher classes of society to afford. Or at least alternate versions of spells with longer durations which makes mass production of magic items far more attractive to the masses even at a slightly higher cost than a mundane version. For the example of the car, a magic fuel cell. Good for 6 months of continueous use, then bring depleted cell to your local dealer, buy a new cell, get a rebate for bringing back the old cell which will be later recharged. Like what they do with car batteries today. Also with the ability to enchant ammunition, think of all the varient arounds crew weapons or grenades and larger weapons can now use. Load an Entangle 40mm grenade followed by a sleep cloud 40mm grenade, excellent riot control. Per round might be more expensive than bean bag rounds, but you need far less of them which in the long run saves money. Penny pinching in government budgets would love that.
#8 rhialto Oct 04, 2009 11:58:49	It was possibel to make longlife energy-efficient light-bulbs decades before they actually became common in stores? Why? Because the lightbulb manufacuteres knew there was a bigger profit in selling an item that their customers will need to eplace often.   Similarly, any industrialised magic society won't be doing teh permanent magic items, because any enchanter who makes those can sell his stuff exactly once per customer, then finds himself dying of hunger in his later years. The other enchanters, who sold non-permanent stuff, find their custoemrs coming back for more (yep, people are that stupid). The result is the guys who sold non-permament stuff can afford to grow his business, eventually dominating regional then national markets. It's not by accident that most things in the modern world are designed to wear out. It will be the same in a magitech world.