So, we got Future, Past, Apocalypse, and a bunch of setting and admin books. But what supplements were never created that you think would have completed the line?
I know there was some hope for a superheroes setting.
I would have like to see a d20 Ancients, for PL0-2.
That would serve as a toolkit d20 Fantasy, which would be a perfect setting for low-magic, high-fantasy, games. I think d20 Modern is more suited to games like Conan or Dresden Files.
as "D&D, no mages campaign"
What exactly is High Fantasy in the terms of d20Modern game mechanics?
That is, what is the current Strong/MA classed character missing that we would need in a High Fantasy book?
Take the lil AKs away from the kobalds, give them machette & slings and have have the Tough & Str guys beat on them
How would we justify the Wealth system,
if there was no credit agencies and EZ Financing back then?
superheroes (already mentioned)
cops and robbers
detective fiction
war stories
mafia/organised crime
horror (kinda-sorta Urban Arcana)
More resources to run genres not based on violent confrontation, so more rules for things like sports or other (I hate to say it for fear of starting a fight, but...) "physical challenges," or con-artistry, or art. The balance of classes in Modern, half mental and half physical, opens the door for games that are just as focused on social interaction, artistic creation, or technological innovation as they are on combat and tactics. I would love to have seen more material for that.
I'm sure most of this exists somewhere out there, though. It's just a matter of finding it. Heck, there's a whole, 40+ page book on running chasses in d20 rules, something that the standard rules suck at so hard that no one bothers. What we didn't get is a whole lot of official, WotC products supporting the line, but there's no shortage of third-party books, and a tsunami of free material on the internet. It's more work to sift through to separate the good from the terrible, but we have to do that with stuff from WotC as well, so I don't see a real difference.
/rant.
More genre-specific books:
I'm sure most of this exists somewhere out there, though. It's just a matter of finding it. Heck, there's a whole, 40+ page book on running chasses in d20 rules, something that the standard rules suck at so hard that no one bothers. What we didn't get is a whole lot of official, WotC products supporting the line, but there's no shortage of third-party books, and a tsunami of free material on the internet. It's more work to sift through to separate the good from the terrible, but we have to do that with stuff from WotC as well, so I don't see a real difference.
/rant.
More genre books, check. The WotC model was to do a genre with a setting, i.e., Cyberscape. Do you think that would the way to go?
Any recommendations for third-party material for d20 Modern?
I refer to d20 high fantasy ancients (pl0-2)
as "D&D, no mages campaign"
Well, you could go the Adv/Pres. Class route for magic.
There's also the Incantation rule. Big, elaborate rituals designed for PC interuption!
But I prefer a different FX system, like True Sorcery from Green Ronin. It does a good job of displaying magic like that of the Black Company or the Dresden Files.
What exactly is High Fantasy in the terms of d20Modern game mechanics?
That is, what is the current Strong/MA classed character missing that we would need in a High Fantasy book?
High Magic /= High Fantasy. And I lack the skill to articulate why; but I'll try.
High Magic is D&D: fireballs, active gods, resurrection, superpowers for the characters.
High Fantasy is more a sense of wonder: fairy tales, Alladin, the Brothers Grimm, Conan, stuff like that.
I like that d20 Modern's character abilities/superpowers are more restrained and realistic the D&Ds.
How would we justify the Wealth system,
if there was no credit agencies and EZ Financing back then?
In real life, there wasn't that much grave robbing going on. Have a treasure find be one-time bonus to your Wealth Check.
woah,
I read just the subject line and posted something way out of scope of the actual thread subject
-removed-
anyhoo, back on track:
High Fantasy is more a sense of wonder: fairy tales, Alladin, the Brothers Grimm, Conan, stuff like that.
I like that d20 Modern's character abilities/superpowers are more restrained and realistic the D&Ds.
Well, that is the nice thing about a game system rooted in a low fantasy base,
it makes the fantastic stuff seem more out of the ordinary.
By taking a generic, dare I say 'reality' based mechanic and laying on top of that any implementation or application of fantasy or genre, we can tailor the game to fit many needs
... from Mecha to MongoSmash to Mickeymouse
In the terms of high fantasy,
whatever degree of Fey we want to lay on top of the mundane doesnt mean we have to detract from munday game system mechanics- while pixies may have superpowers, that dont mean pixies are incapable of shooting wee tiny little AK47s or plying some GoogleFu investigation.
Private investigator TV shows are and always have been popular,
just make the PIs a couple catgirls or pixies in a town full of fey/fantasy, ala Roger Rabit without the slapschtick (or with it, cause who dont like slapschtick).
Even with the basic Modern materials from WoC
we can easily have a Kobald party fighting off a Zombie invasion with the help of some catgirls,
in a town without a single human.
Just as we had no problems running a Goblin/Elf/Gnoll/Centaur party in classic D&D,
we can run those parties in in Modern. Its just the campaign defined social normality that sets the tone:
Nothing strange about a party of Highschool Shoadowchaser Centaurs in a town populated by catgirls and elfs & pixies... they just put fewer benches on the subway and fewer boothes in resturants for the Taurs
More genre books, check. The WotC model was to do a genre with a setting, i.e., Cyberscape. Do you think that would the way to go?
Yes, absoutely. I was very disappointed at the "past, present, future" model, although there is some good work in there. I liked that Past had a "pulp heroes" section. That was thinking the right direction, if you ask me. It's not a great book, but at least that section tried to root itself in a particular kind of storytelling. They might as well have called future "d20 Sci-Fi."
As for including a setting, that's cute and all, but I prefer to create my own settings. What I'd really like is a bunch of not entirely connected sets and things, a bunch of modular parts that I could mix and match to my own ends. If I wanted to create, for example, a playable version of Vancouver, my home town, it would be very helpful to have a few "grungy dive" bars already generated for me, or a "typical residential neighbourhood" map or two, whcih I could then alter to taste. I want as much support as possible for me to make my own fun. I don't need a totally pre-fab world. I don't really want to play with someone else's toys. I want them to help me build my own.
The one exception to that, on that note of playing in Vancouver, would be that I would love to have books that detail real cities as playable settings. "d20 New York," or "d20 Singapore." I have no idea what the legality of that would be, but it could be fun as hell. That's what I mean by providing me with pieces that I can arrange on the board as I please. If I'm doing a superhero game and I want to set it in Cairo, it'd be really awesome to have "d20 Cairo" on my bookshelf. And part of why I suggest that kind of thing is that it might just satisfy the bottomless pit of desire that is Hasbro's enforced publication schedule.
In academic study, genres are understood to be based on the expectation of specific conventions showing up in recognisable patterns. If it has horses, six-guns, and tall hats, it's probably a Western. If it has blasters, space-ships, and space-suits, it's probably space-opera. If it has cops, drug dealers, and car chases, it's probably an urban/contemporary action movie.
Without a recognisable genre, I feel no motivation to buy an RPG. If you say to me, "You get to live out your superhero fantasies," then I'm in. If you say to me, "You get to be a wizard," then I'm in. If you say to me, "Here's a body of rules to play games set in the Early and Pre-Modern period" (which is what d20 Past covers), then I'm a little lost. That's not lack of imagination. It's not lack of intelligence. It's not laziness. It's just blandness of presentation. I'm not one to advocate genre tyranny--to be SF you must have robots!!--but I am one to point out how powerful the expectations and conventions of genre are. If you want to sell your game, your potential buyers have to know what in the hell you're selling. When I ask a playwright, "What's your play about?" and that person says "Everything!" then I'm very, very unlikely to want to see her play. Why do you all think Star Wars did so well? It's recognised, on several levels, including genre, but obviously it's just a very powerful franchise.
That's a very long trip to answer your question but, yes, things like Cyberspace, which was basically a cyberpunk book, are exactly what I wanted. But, the Core Rule Book didn't have any of that. It didn't have anything specific enough to motivate me to buy it until about five years after it was published. And why did I buy it? I need the CRB to write Phoenix, a genre-based book (superhero), not because I was particularly interested in d20 Modern as a game unto itself, I'm sorry to say.
Any recommendations for third-party material for d20 Modern?
Just look on the shelves of a gaming shop. Mutants and Masterminds did very well. Spycraft is a prennial. The Star Wars books well well. In terms of sheer volume of genres covered, I have to give credit to RPG Objects. They've been chugging out playable expansion packs for years. I think Phoenix is a lot of fun, but I'll leave you to decide that for yourself.
The things I want from an expansion pack are consistency with the core rules to the point where, as a player, I can basically pick up the expansion, grab a class, thumb through the new feats, spells, whatever, and get rolling pretty quickly. However, I also appreciate that genres and styles often require custom rules, so all that I ask is that those custom rules be highlighted very clearly so that I don't accidentally play the game "wrong." I also appreciate optional rules that are clearly labelled as such and explained not just in game terms but in terms of why I might want to take them. Unearthed Arcana is still one of the best D&D books ever. A Modern Options book would have been fan-bloody-tastic. Frankly, I'd like to create one based on the stuff that's been posted on this forum over the years, but I have a job and a girlfriend and another job on top of that.
I know there was some hope for a superheroes setting.
erdana; color:#000000; font-size:9pt">This supplement is setting in a computer as a pdf as we speak. WOTC had a release date and everything for this supplement. And they pulled the plug. Why? I don't think they ever released an official reason. Some say that it was so that they could pull all the "talent" they had to work on 4e. I use "" with talent considering 4e is currently killing D&D and I guess that was the talent they were looking for.
Anyone remember what they were going to call that supplement? Aberration or something like that. I cannot remember exactly.
At any rate, there's actually no shortage of superhero games now. Mutants and Masterminds, Blood and Vigilence, Deeds Not Words is still around, and then there's Phoenix, of course.
It was going to be called d20 Spectaculars, if I recall correctly, which is actually a great name. I wonder if they used it as a bit of a smokescreen to cover 4e? They went to a lot of effort to keep it quiet at first. Spectaculars even had cover art on Amazon, I think.
At any rate, there's actually no shortage of superhero games now. Mutants and Masterminds, Blood and Vigilence, Deeds Not Words is still around, and then there's Phoenix, of course.
I suspect the demise of Spectaculars (and Modern) had more to do with numbers and board meetings. They simply decided to recentre their interest on the two cash cows WoTC had : Star Wars and D&D.
The same can be said about Star Wars these days. Now that they have milked the cow the are not renewing the licence. They are concentrating only on D&D 4E and its spin offs - AKA Gamma World. If you look at the 2010 catalogue they will put out two board games. One based on D&D and the other on Ravenloft. WoTC is becoming a game company rather then simply a roleplaying game company. It makes sense economicaly speaking. The more you spread the D&D brand into different niches the more money you will make during the 8 to 10 years run every D&D edition lasts. [/]Speculation on Spectaculars..LOL
I belive Spectaculars will be released as a Starter Set that is the cover and ToC,
while all other pages will be sold in randomized booster page packs,
that you simply try to collect all pages of the book by buying boosters till the end of time
After exhausting research (aka tequilla induced vision)....
I belive Spectaculars will be released as a Starter Set that is the cover and ToC,
while all other pages will be sold in randomized booster page packs,
that you simply try to collect all pages of the book by buying boosters till the end of time
OMG... I pissed my pants. I come I haven't seen you on modernd20unlimited?