Christopher Perkins wrote:
:evillaugh I are happy now.
.So the question really is, where to we send all our fan-built material? If a lack of resources is holding things back, then let's send them some bloody resources. My game is free. If they want to redistribute it, there's pretty much nothing I can do to stop them. All I ask is a creator credit and for them to pay off my student loands.
here is the Suubmission guidelines for articles or adventures
Ugh. I don't want to pay a subscription service to get 99% D&D stuff and 1% D20 modern. If the last few months have shown anything, it is that modern online content comes at a snails pace, and 1 to 4 articles a year isn't going to be worth the subscription price.
Its not even offical stuff,but atleast its better than nothing
Ugh. I don't want to pay a subscription service to get 99% D&D stuff and 1% D20 modern. If the last few months have shown anything, it is that modern online content comes at a snails pace, and 1 to 4 articles a year isn't going to be worth the subscription price.
That's a very good point. There is no earthly way I'm playing for a D&D Insider subscription. If that's how they plan to do d20 Modern, they loose this customer.
I´m already happy and ready to buy more than one book each month (playing and collecting D&D, d20modern and StarWars and SWMinis), but this seems to much for me, and really chases me away from that company, because I feel it is rather them getting cheeky.
On antoher note, next time we want a game developer to make something based off of a movie/show, we show just send him video clips of said item.
Now if they want to release a new version in hardbound, we'll talk.
Then buy the books and ignore the digital stuff.
I have all of the books. Nothing new for 12 months +. "Digital stuff" is the only thing coming out.
What more can I do?
Part of the problem here (and I'm really not trying to be sanctimonious) is that we're expecting new stuff all the time. We're thirsty for new books, new expansions, etc. I think that's a consumer drive, myself. I think it's a manufactured sense of a need for novelty. With the books that are out right now, by Wizards and many others, you can play an almost by-definition limitless number of games. It's more work, certainly. I'd love some pre-written modules that I could tailor to taste, but other than that, there's nothing stopping you.
Someone needs to buy d20 Modern from WotC. Someone needs to give d20 Modern new breath. Someone is trying to do that with Modern20, but that's an entry in the 3rd-party PDF world. A world that d20 Modern players have to live in. It's clear WotC isn't going to.
Darn, got into another cynical tirade again.
Sorry.
Someone needs to buy d20 Modern from WotC. Someone needs to give d20 Modern new breath. Someone is trying to do that with Modern20, but that's an entry in the 3rd-party PDF world. A world that d20 Modern players have to live in. It's clear WotC isn't going to.
Darn, got into another cynical tirade again.
Sorry.
Someone needs to learn the virtue of patience.
Remember, there was a 2-year gap between the last Star Wars RCR product and the new Star Wars SECR (released just this year).
Next year, it will be D&D's turn with 4e. And perhaps the year after that, it may be d20 Modern's turn.
Come on REG. You are just as anxious as the rest of us.
Ask me if I feel anxious as y'all now in 2009. :P
My current «apocalypse/futur» campaign will run for another two years. At which point D&D 4.0 will have been fully play tested by the community. THEN, I hope, Modern will benefit again from that experience. We will have the best !
If not, well ultimately it's the storyline that makes the game not the rules ! ;)
My current Modern is called : RISE OF THE KINORI. (Menace page 56 - specifically second to last paragraph). It fired my imagination !
May I remind everyone that with 6 hard covers and 5 soft covers the Modern D20 game has been well cared for by WOC.
Psst! I think I hear someone snickering behind you.
As for the «Spectaculars» book my campaign already uses cybernetics and mutations from Apocalypse, Cyberspace and Futur. I'm old school : I had an idea and made the rules work for me not the other way around !
People shouldn't expect the same level of output from WOC. Its simply not realistic.
Oh, that begs a question: Why not?
Instead we get the building block approach. Products come out slowly at a «regular» pace. I guess the fan base keeps growing otherwise they would have pulled the plug. Modern is propably the hardest product to market since it covers anything from muskets to laser guns.
The BIG mistake they made was «PAST». A skimpy 96 pages soft cover with no real substance. It should have been a 400 pages hardcover divided in four major sections :
Antiquity & Dark Ages : From Babylonia to Charlemagnes rule.
Exploration Age & Renaissance : Naval Empires, Feudal Japan, Pirates, Inca gold.
Industrial Age & Film Noir : Paranormal P.I., Chicago Gansters, Nazi World Domination.
Cold War : Spies, communist, policital assassinations, the space race, the fall of the Berlin Wall.
Such a book would have opened the field for many softcovers from third party and WOC. A missed opportunity I guess
With that in mind, we should be grateful for what we have.
BTW I'm more than happy with what we have. It WAS the original intent of my first post ever on the forum..;)
The BIG mistake they made was «PAST». A skimpy 96 pages soft cover with no real substance.
Actually, they got most of the softcover products right, with the exception of d20 Past. Many complains the lack of depth in the hardcover supplements, as in d20 Future. Just ask Aussiegamer.
It should have been a 400 pages hardcover divided in four major sections :
400 pages?
That's more than d20 Modern Core Rulebook page count.
Antiquity & Dark Ages : From Babylonia to Charlemagnes rule.
Exploration Age & Renaissance : Naval Empires, Feudal Japan, Pirates, Inca gold.
Industrial Age & Film Noir : Paranormal P.I., Chicago Gansters, Nazi World Domination.
Cold War : Spies, communist, policital assassinations, the space race, the fall of the Berlin Wall.
Personally, I'd divide them into separate softcover books.
Such a book would have opened the field for many softcovers from third party and WOC. A missed opportunity I guess
Perhaps. d20 Past could be covered in 300 pages or so in a hardcover format, with more depth content than d20 Future (there are just too many bleeping elements in sci-fi).
It would be interesting to see how WotC is going to come up with a better marketing gameplan for the revival of d20 Modern. They need to come up with their own signature setting, like how Dungeons & Dragons started off with Greyhawk (though one could argue that Blackmoor was the first). Other settings can follow after much like D&D's Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance, Eberron, etc.
I would like to see a contest along the same lines that gave us Eberron.
The Future hardcover presents campaign models. I'm using «In the Dark Heart of Space» as backdrop to my campaign. These ideas are only canvases. The GM has to paint the picture. D&D has Eberron, Forgotten Realms & Living Greyhawk I don't see why WOC shouldn't try its hand at a FUTURE setting for Modern. I'm speaking as a GM of course. Its alote of work the run a campaign. If WOC does half the job by creating a setting I'm not going to complain...:D.
I wouldn't want Star Wars to be the default setting for Modern SF. Star Wars is not really science fiction. Its fantasy disguised as SF.
Yes. That's called "space opera." It's an established genre. The line between fantasy and SF is actually a lot thinner than most people intuitively think. There's a lot of SF that treats technology like magic, and even some fantasy that treats it like technology. Most of D&D's magic system is very technological in that it's systematic, it relies on fuel (components or charges). It's a "do X and Y happens" system, as opposed to literary magic which is much more chaotic. I digress.
Anyway the SW RPG is already well established.
Which could be an argument in favour of elevating d20F on the back of Star Wars, no?
The Future hardcover presents campaign models. I'm using «In the Dark Heart of Space» as backdrop to my campaign. These ideas are only canvases. The GM has to paint the picture. D&D has Eberron, Forgotten Realms & Living Greyhawk I don't see why WOC shouldn't try its hand at a FUTURE setting for Modern. I'm speaking as a GM of course. Its alote of work the run a campaign. If WOC does half the job by creating a setting I'm not going to complain...:D.
Funny, I find game settings quite easy to whip up. What I like pre-packaged is things like villains/monsters, buildings, anything that requires finicky numbers. I can adjust to taste, but it is soooo much easier to start with something than to make it up from scratch.
*yes I did try that once...
Narukagami, I can't see how you can mesh Urban Arcana or Dark Mater with Future? Is it just me? Urban Arcana is D&D in the modern world. Dark Mater is X-files. Please light my lantern.
Funny, I find game settings quite easy to whip up. What I like pre-packaged is things like villains/monsters, buildings, anything that requires finicky numbers. I can adjust to taste, but it is soooo much easier to start with something than to make it up from scratch.
At first settings are fun to lay out indeed. But when a campaign last from 4 to 5 years it can get pretty tricky after a while. You need more dept if you want to keep the attention of your players. For this reason I find novels are excellent backbones for settings. I plan to base my next Future campaign around Ian M. Banks' Culture novels : The Player of Games, Against a Dark Background. Dan Simmons Hyperion trilogy is also a good candidate for a Future campaign.
Signature settings might kinda sorta work, but given the generic nature of d20M (that's not an insult, just a statement of fact), I think they'd be better off with actual genre-based books: sci-fi, war, cop, martial arts, "average joe," etc.
Okay, if we're going with the generic thing, how does GURPS do it? How often GURPS rank in the top 5 list of best-selling RPGs? How do they keep profiting without being the hottest-selling RPG, as opposed to World of Darkness (a modern-genre signature setting for White Wolf)?
WotC did make settings for d20 Modern/Future. Did everyone suddenly forget about Dark*Matter, or Urban Arcana?
There is no follow-up product, as in the case of [smallcaps]Dungeons & Dragons[/smallcaps] Forgotten Realms line.
Okay, if we're going with the generic thing, how does GURPS do it? How often GURPS rank in the top 5 list of best-selling RPGs? How do they keep profiting without being the hottest-selling RPG, as opposed to World of Darkness (a modern-genre signature setting for White Wolf)?
GURPS is an exception. First its an old game so they have a following. Second SJGames is a small operation owned by one man. Its the anti-thesis of WOC. Almost all GURPS books are written by freelance and the art work is often borderline. Production cost must be way cheaper than WOCs. They must also benefit from the «anything but d20» current. In the end I believe SJ Games is similar to a familly business. As long as books balance and everyone has been payed everybody is happy... WOC is more about board meetings, profit margins, sales objectives, etc.
GURPS is not in the top 5 RPGs because its generic just like Modern.
They must have the same marketing problems. BUT they do have a strong SF setting «TransHuman Space». They also have GURPS Traveller, the grand daddy of SF RPGs. THEY ALSO SELL ALL BOOK IN PDF format. It makes
the products less expensive for the consumer.
I still say that if WOC wants to succeed with the FUTURE line they need to come up with an original and captivating SF setting. World of Darkness is original material (not a movie franchise). All D&D settings are original material. Star Wars is an exception because of 30 years of brilliant marketing strategies by Mister Lucas...
GURPS is an exception. First its an old game so they have a following.
It has to start somewhere. Granted, d20 Modern entered into a market already full of generic rulesets suitable for modern-genre roleplaying.
Second SJGames is a small operation owned by one man. Its the anti-thesis of WOC.
More like the antithesis of TSR, who have had a larger pool of in-house employed game designers. Now, it is not so much (assuming you have heard of the many layoffs in the past 7 years).
Almost all GURPS books are written by freelance and the art work is often borderline.
A business practice that even WotC is using these days. (Remember? The layoffs?)
Production cost must be way cheaper than WOCs. They must also benefit from the «anything but d20» current. In the end I believe SJ Games is similar to a familly business. As long as books balance and everyone has been payed everybody is happy... WOC is more about board meetings, profit margins, sales objectives, etc.
Business is business. Profit is profit. Granted, Steve Jackson may not have a higher profit projection for his business (thought I'm sure he would love it). But it's working for him if profit can exceed business expense by a sizable margin.
GURPS is not in the top 5 RPGs because its generic just like Modern.
They must have the same marketing problems. BUT they do have a strong SF setting «TransHuman Space». They also have GURPS Traveller, the grand daddy of SF RPGs. THEY ALSO SELL ALL BOOK IN PDF format. It makes
the products less expensive for the consumer.
Yeah. You do know that you're reinforcing my argument for signature setting, right?
I still say that if WOC wants to succeed with the FUTURE line they need to come up with an original and captivating SF setting. World of Darkness is original material (not a movie franchise). All D&D settings are original material. Star Wars is an exception because of 30 years of brilliant marketing strategies by Mister Lucas...
Huh?
Aren't we supposed to be having a debate between generic vs. signature setting business models? It's not fair for my opponent (i.e., you) is arguing FOR my case.
:P
Future does need a «setting book» much like Urban Arcana. But it would have to be radically different from Star Wars to have any appeal.
Maybe we are on the same side on this. Please define «signature» and «generic». The only thing I want for Future is a campaign setting that is not derived from a movie/tv franchise. I want something original, untouched. Something my players will actually discover as we go along ;) . Not something they know by heart like Star Wars...
Maybe we are on the same side on this. Please define «signature» and «generic». The only thing I want for Future is a campaign setting that is not derived from a movie/tv franchise. I want something original, untouched. Something my players will actually discover as we go along ;) . Not something they know by heart like Star Wars...
IOW, a setting that is created for RPG, like FR is to D&D?
- Star*Drive
- Star Law/Star Frontier
- Mecha Crusade (mecha-inspired setting but can be as unique as Robotech or Battletech universe)
Pick one. Do more than expand and elaborate the setting. Get authors to write novels based on them (hire Michael Stackpole).
Maybe it's just me, but I don't see anything about a Modern 4th edition in there. I think he's talking about working on Spectaculars after D&D 4e is finished.
Maybe because he won't be working on the new d20 Modern but somebody else will?
My intuition is that when they go ahead they will probably heavily rely on Alternity. WOC would be in its own right to do so but I would find it a bite disappointing. The SF ideas have evolved alote in the last 10 years. SF is more than space ships and aliens. Its about «anticipating» the Future. GURPS «Transhumanity» setting is probably the most cutting edge right know.
P.S.: I will not be working a Modern (I'm flattered you would think so). I am a freelance game designer though. I'm currently finishing work on a non collectible card game to be published by an independant game company in 2009. ;)
My comments are made purely for discussion value. Wheter its Spectacular, 4e or Future I was simply expressing the opinion that its about time WOC produced some serious/rich new «signature» setting for Future/Spectacular products. «Generic» books could be added afterwards as support.
My intuition is that when they go ahead they will probably heavily rely on Alternity. WOC would be in its own right to do so but I would find it a bite disappointing. The SF ideas have evolved alote in the last 10 years. SF is more than space ships and aliens. Its about «anticipating» the Future. GURPS «Transhumanity» setting is probably the most cutting edge right know.
Perhaps, but I'm still a traditionalist when it comes to sci-fi genre. I gotta have big starships, fast starfighters, and funky aliens.
It just occured to me that Wizards' games are basically divided be era: D&D = medieval; d20Modern = postmodern (ironic, I know); d20Past = early-modern/modern; and d20Future = the future.
[NB: within historical study, "modern" doesn't mean "now." It refers to a particular era that is basically over, just in case you were wondering. "Contemporary" means "now."]
Some «contemporary » SF ideas I would like to see in a hypothetical Future Setting: (feel free to expand)
- Eugenism : Basically you don't die or live a very very long time
- Designer babies : Choose your kid, physical and psychological traits
- Meta-Humans : Heavy DNA manipulation is common/the norm
- Portal interstellar travel : 5 planet long shoppings malls linked by seemless teleportation
- Designer pharmacology : Perfect control of body and mind with pills
- Really alien aliens : Too alien to explain with a few words ...
- Political/government structures other than disguised capitalism, socialism and communism.
Future versions of the OGL, including a 4e d20 Modern version, may make certain games possible where they weren’t before.
Nice, isn't it?
The new version of the OGL isn’t as open-ended as the current version. Any 4e OGL product must use the 4e PHB as the basis of their game. If they can’t use the core rule books, it won’t be possible to create the game under this particular version of the OGL.
To me, this says "If it ain't fantasy, it ain't OGL."
One thing I do noticed for the 4e SRD is not contents (i.e., OGC) but reference to contents in the rulebook that are designated as OGC.
Just hope gamers/designers/publishers won't be confused that the rulebook do not contain OGC.
:evillaugh
The 4th edition SRD will be much more of a reference document than the 3e SRD. The current edition contains almost all of the rules and allows “copy and paste” publishing. WotC would prefer to see 3rd party publishers to use their creativity and talent instead of reformatting or slightly changing pre-existing rules. As such, the 4e SRD will contain more guidelines and pointers, and less straightforward rules repetition.
Haha, I like how they tried to put a positive spin on what essentially translates to "We're not going to give you the rules for free because we're going to make you buy the rulebook, one way or another."
What a load. Its obvious the real reason they're not including the rules is to prevent people from not opting to buy the core rulebooks, and to force 3rd party developers into investing some amount of money into WotC in order to get the actual ruleset. Why do they feel the perpetual need to constantly lie to us?
Nice spotting. So the SRDs won't allow people to play without the books any more. This is looking less and less fun.
For game designers, yeah. Not for rats that wants the rules for free. :evillaugh
It's marketing spin, but what they don't seem to understand is that most people can see through marketing spin, these days. We're too jaded not to. I'd really prefer if they just said "We'll be releasing detailed notes on what's actually in the OGL and what's not, but if you want the text, you'll have to buy a copy." That seems entirely fair to me, but pretending that it's about "creativity and talent" is just a load of hooey. It's like "we want professionals" excuse for the $5000. They want money, and I don't blame them for that. Just admit it.
Hey, if a company don't want to fork up the $5K, they can always wait. Not a big deal.
Ugh. I don't want to pay a subscription service to get 99% D&D stuff and 1% D20 modern. If the last few months have shown anything, it is that modern online content comes at a snails pace, and 1 to 4 articles a year isn't going to be worth the subscription price.
One of my major beefs with this free preview of DDI is how lame it is. I really want to see (instead of hear) how awesome DDI will be. If they intend to keep me as a customer, they need to kick it in gear now.
So, empty promises about d20 Modern don't float for me. I don't want words. I want evidence.
I don't want words. I want evidence.
I think you have all of the evidence you need right before you.
I think you have all of the evidence you need right before you.
Do I detect a sarcastic flavor to those words?
:P
Hey, if a company don't want to fork up the $5K, they can always wait. Not a big deal.
I think being a year behind on rolling out new product in a market-place that's already very small is a serious impediment. It really looks to me like a way to keep little up-and-comers from joining the party at all.
When WotC could have given a lot of us with the release of d20 Spectaculars during the popularity of Heroes so high at the time, they held it back to do something else. Then Christopher Perkins posts "Hey, did ya know about Heroes..." (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php%3Fp%3D13818246%23post13818246)
Face it, d20 Modern players are chump change to them. And they know we will come back to D&D when the d20 Modern waters have dried up. I did. And as soon as v2.0 of the Open Gaming License comes out, no one will be allowed to produce to d20 Modern (until Modern 2.0 and OGL 2.1 is released).
For game designers, yeah. Not for rats that wants the rules for free. :evillaugh
Lol. I agree considering it was three superb third party supplements that convinced me to give the d20 Modern a second look. Of course, having the d20 Modern SRD made it convenient for people such as myself to look over the rules in our free time at home before making our purchase of the core book.
And as soon as v2.0 of the Open Gaming License comes out, no one will be allowed to produce to d20 Modern (until Modern 2.0 and OGL 2.1 is released).
Um. People will still be able to produce OGL in its current state.
You know, one thing I'm interested in is whether the creators of True20 plan on doing an update that implements some of the streamlining. While I'm not completely sold on True20, it may become a viable (or reasonable) option to WotC's 4e D&D and d20 Modern .. assuming that it gets revised some day.
Face it, d20 Modern players are chump change to them. And they know we will come back to D&D when the d20 Modern waters have dried up. I did. And as soon as v2.0 of the Open Gaming License comes out, no one will be allowed to produce to d20 Modern (until Modern 2.0 and OGL 2.1 is released).
Are they removing the d20Modern SRD with the release of 4.0 or just the d20SRD? Anyway, there is plenty of excellent third party material from quality third parties.
Some possibilites
Company:Adamant Entertainment
- Terminal Identity 1.0. a collection of their following four cybepunk rule pdfs. 1 customer rating at the pdf store. 5 of 5 stars. Reviews of individual pdfs at the review section
----Netspace (4/5 stars ENworld)
----Posthuman: Definitive Guide to d20 Augmentation (4/5 stars EnWorld)
----Black Market (3/5 stars ENWorld)
----Tactical Implant No Review
- Hot Pursuit: Definitive Guide to Chases (Rules for vehicle chases) 4 out 5 stars
- Hot Pursuit: On Foot (Rules for foot chases). No ENWorld Review. 4 of 5 at RPGNow
- Thrilling Tales (Pulp Adventures. The section on different pulp genres is supposed to be very good). The Omnibus collects most, if not all, of the non-adventure pdfs. 3 customers ratings all 5 of 5 stars at ENWorld pdf shop
Company: EN Publishing
- *Elements of Magic: Mythic Earth: A skill and feat magic system 4 out of 5 Stars at ENWorld (would be 4.5, but one of the reviewers had to found down from 4.5 to 4).
Company: Green Ronin
- *Psychic's Handbook: a skill and feat power system useable with both DND and d20 Modern. 4 out 5 stars at EnWorld
Company: RPGObjects
- Blood and Fists: Master edition. martial arts rules. combines
----Blood and Fists (5 of 5 stars at ENWorld)
--- Blood and Fists: Hong Kong Knights (No review)
-Blood and Blades: A profiler's Guide to Slashers. Rules to run game inspired by Freddy, Jason, Michael, Species, etc. 4 out of 5 stars at ENWorld
-Blood and Brains: The Zombie Hunter's Guide. 4 out of 5 stars at ENWorld
-Blood and Guts. A series of military oriented products. all of the books except Deep Blue Sea received 4 out of 5 star ratings at ENWorld. Deep Blue Sea received 3 stars
-Blood and Spooks The Ghost Hunter's Guide. 4 out of 5 stars at ENWorld
-Blood and Relics. Modern Gothic Conspiracy. 4 out of 5 stars at ENWorld
- Blood and Space2. The products in this line have received either 4 or 5 out of 5 stars at ENWorld
-Blood and Time. A guide for time travel 4 out of 5 stars at ENWorld
- Blood and Vigilance d20 Modern Supers. 4 out of 5 stars at ENWorld
- Campaign Modern High. A guide for running teenage modern heroes. new feats, new talents, 2 campaign settings. Rating. I had to go to the pdf store to find ratings. There were two customer reviews. Average reviews 4.5 stars out of 5 stars which would round down to 4
- Timeline: Roaring 20's . ENWorld rating 4 reviews at the EnWorld PDF store. Average of customer ratings 4.5 of 5 stars rounding down to 4.
Company: Second World Simulations
- Skill Focus: Talking New mechanics for roleplaying encounters. Several reviews at the ENWorld store. Average of ratings about 4.5 or 4.75 stars of 5
Company: The Game Mechanics (Stan!, Rich Redman, J.D. Wiliker,
- *Modern Player's Companion. 4 of 5 stars at EnWorld
- Future Player's Companion. No review at EnWorld of the print version. I was not going to look through individual reviews of all three pdfs
- Martial Arts Mayhem. 4 of 5 stars at EnWorld.
- Modern Magic. Magic variants. 3 of 5 stars at EnWorld.
Company: UKG Publishing
Year of the Zombie. Campaign template. 4 out 5 stars at Enworld.
Um. People will still be able to produce OGL in its current state.
You know, one thing I'm interested in is whether the creators of True20 plan on doing an update that implements some of the streamlining. While I'm not completely sold on True20, it may become a viable (or reasonable) option to WotC's 4e D&D and d20 Modern .. assuming that it gets revised some day.
Honestly, I really can't think of anything major I want to see changed regarding True20. I'd bring in a couple of hybrid classes, more equipment, and a few tweaks to powers. I know that I definitely would not want to see any more skills consolidated or the Star Wars: SE skill system (I despised it).
Even d20 Modern, I would not want to see changed much except for the Fx mechanics ( and, even then, I don't want per encounter mechanics). Outside of fx, I'd only want to see the following
- death and dying from Unearthed Arcana (get rid of negative hit points)
- maybe the Star Wars damage track (I can't recall how that works). My house rule has been fatigued at 50% hp, Exhaustion at 25% hit points and then the death and dying rules from Unearthed when reduced to 0 hit points to remain concious, stabilize, avoid dying and death.
I think being a year behind on rolling out new product in a market-place that's already very small is a serious impediment. It really looks to me like a way to keep little up-and-comers from joining the party at all.
Meh.
AEG came up with Spycraft v1.0 that is compatible with D&D 3e -- way before WotC started rolling out their d20 Modern Core Rulebook -- and that did well. Goes to show that even patience (as well as thoroughly researching the ruleset) is a virtue.
Are they removing the d20Modern SRD with the release of 4.0 or just the d20SRD?
We don't know.
But just in case, you better download them before they're gone.
Under the Modern license, there will be a license for non-fantasy roleplaying settings. The details of that haven’t been released yet. We don’t have a product line that that will support, but in the coming weeks we’ll be talking about plans for late 2009 and 2010 where we’ll be refreshing the d20 Modern or the Urban Arcana setting.
(source)
I guess, we can read it like they want to revive the line with new editions of rules and or UA setting, I am not pretty much sure about that part probably will be published in 2010 (I am bit sceptical about that 2009). It will also constitute new licence for all other than D&D which is maybe more than before. Now that's what I call revival... and we might even get those Specatulars as a source book for it right?
So... opinions? Ideas? Worries?
I guess, we can read it like they want to revive the line with new editions of rules and or UA setting, I am not pretty much sure about that part probably will be published in 2010 (I am bit sceptical about that 2009). It will also constitute new licence for all other than D&D which is maybe more than before. Now that's what I call revival... and we might even get those Specatulars as a source book for it right?
So... opinions? Ideas? Worries?
Well in anterview with Gamer Radio Zero Chris Perkins said 2009......so i guess we'll just wait and see
I guess, we can read it like they want to revive the line with new editions of rules and or UA setting, I am not pretty much sure about that part probably will be published in 2010 (I am bit sceptical about that 2009). It will also constitute new licence for all other than D&D which is maybe more than before. Now that's what I call revival... and we might even get those Specatulars as a source book for it right?
So... opinions? Ideas? Worries?
Man, I hope they start with a better campaign than UA. I'm looking forward to seeing a new d20M and really hope we get more genres out of the gate quickly. Maybe do a genre a year like D&D may do a setting a year? Something like 2009 The Year of Spy, 2010 The Year of Horror, 2012 The Year of Urban Fantasy, etc.
Joking aside, I'm torn. On the one hand, I want it now. On the other, I don't want it to suck. At this point, d20M really is better off in the hands of third-party publishers.
Great. So I'll have to wait like three or four years for them to get to the genre that I like.
Better than nothing, I guess. Better than unsupported system at least. But I understand your feeling.
Joking aside, I'm torn. On the one hand, I want it now. On the other, I don't want it to suck. At this point, d20M really is better off in the hands of third-party publishers.
Agreed. I am currently not much sure if D&D 4e is the game I will like. I was pretty positive but the latest previews slightly make me worry. On the other hand I really like SW Saga Ed. I wonder if the revise D20 modern where will they take inspiration from. What kind of game it will be... I am scared and yet looking forward to it with hope...
Alternatively, Paizo is reinventing 3.5 with its Pathfinder RPG. I am interested in seeing what rules are tweaked and likewise, whether there are others in the consumer base that are willing to tackle a revised d20 Modern.
For me, d20 Modern isn't broken. If anything House Rule tweaks can certainly improve the game. It was built with tremendous options for growth that simply weren't realized, e.g., talent trees! So, there are plenty of third parties out there, including ourselves, that can still make something of the game.
Given that I've broken with WotC and its "cool" 4e system, I feel pretty liberated at looking for other options rather than just relying on WotC to do it for us.
Alternatively, Paizo is reinventing 3.5 with its Pathfinder RPG. I am interested in seeing what rules are tweaked and likewise,
I was excited about Pathfinder until I saw the Alpha release, and was severely disappointed.
It takes all the problems of D&D and makes them worse, warrior types got severely weakened while casters got pumped up. I'm still shocked on how it could possibly be so terrible.
I pray the final release will be different, because from what I've seen so far Pathfinder won't be sitting on my shelf any time soon.
Regardless, I'll likely have a handful of house rules to boot, but am much more interested in staying in a rules system that I know as opposed to having to relearn everything.
I think being a year behind on rolling out new product in a market-place that's already very small is a serious impediment. It really looks to me like a way to keep little up-and-comers from joining the party at all.
It's called monopolising the industry. You that game parker brothers (now owned by hasbro) made? Yeah, that one. Screw over the competition to make yourself better.
As it is, since my toenail has more creativity and better ideas stuck under the dirt at its corner, I can sit back with my still-growing 3.x collection safe in the knowledge that all I need is a set of dice to run better games with my eyes closed. At least until my kid hits Junior High and I'm forced to buy version 9.5, or whatever, to run games for his buddies.
(b) allow them to take their time and produce good work. Even a genius produces crap under the wrong circumstances.
This is the problem right here.
Am I the only one who remembers the big scare when Hasbro almost shut down the RPG division because it wasn't making the same profit that the CCG games were? To keep the division alive they stepped up book production, and in return, quality plummeted.
Quite frankly, I have no interest in 4e and all my energies have turned to Pathfinder, Paizo's RPG Project.
I see Paizo where WotC was originally - receptive to its audience, putting out good quality products, and making it hard for the consumer to walk away from a purchase.
Fortunately, Paizo cracks its own whip.
I think I'll just stick with my 3.5 books. They still work.
Probably some kind of reactionsim? "Because its not 4e, we love it," maybe?
I, for one, was not impressed with the Pathfinder alpha, and don't understand why many people seem to be worshiping it (not saying anyone here is).
Probably some kind of reactionsim? "Because its not 4e, we love it," maybe?
Doesn't hurt that Monte Cook will be helping with development. Backward compatibility is one of their goals, and its more than just a "Because its not 4e..." thing. A lot of the positive reaction is the fact that there is support for a game system that works just fine, and every gamer I know is interested in being able to continue gaming with the material (something thousands of dollars worth) and campaigns they already have. Where I live, the only people who seem to be interested in 4e are retailers who have a vested interest in making you think the game that worked fine for 8 years is now worthless.
I, for one, was not impressed with the Pathfinder alpha, and don't understand why many people seem to be worshiping it (not saying anyone here is).
Probably some kind of reactionsim? "Because its not 4e, we love it," maybe?
Doesn't hurt that Monte Cook will be helping with development. Backward compatibility is one of their goals, and its more than just a "Because its not 4e..." thing. A lot of the positive reaction is the fact that there is support for a game system that works just fine, and every gamer I know is interested in being able to continue gaming with the material (something thousands of dollars worth) and campaigns they already have. Where I live, the only people who seem to be interested in 4e are retailers who have a vested interest in making you think the game that worked fine for 8 years is now worthless.
Like he said.
More to the point, I was ramped up when 4e was initially released and announced to follow in the footsteps of Star Wars Saga Edition. Frankly, I found the latter to offer some significant improvements to the game.
But the more I saw of 4e, the less I became interested. 3.5 is not a broken game, and frankly, our game groups have never had problems with the mechanics.
4e may be an improvement, but none of us are willing to re-learning the rules just for the sake of keeping up with WotC's profit-needs. (Besides, the thousands of dollars invested in 3.5 is another good reason not to move on.)
As for Pathfinder, I'll list the reasons I like it:
1. Backwards compatibility. I will likely only have to buy one new book to stay up on things. Whether Paizo creates an Oriental Adventures Pathfinder, adds a Monsters Manual, Psionics, and d20 Modern, will lead me to consider future purchases. But I certainly don't feel obligated. (With WotC, the announcement that future core rulebooks are to come clearly sets up a purchasing/expense model that I'm not interested in.)
2. Customer Services. Paizo came to US. The Alpha is just that - ideas on how to better the 3.5 experience, but nothing set in stone. See, e.g., Alpha v.2 . . . and Alpha v.3 next week for proof. Instead of hearing how "cool" Pathfinder will be and that we need to just accept the creators' word as gospel doesn't fly with me. Paizo is clearly excited about their efforts, but they, too, are receptive to criticism - be it constructive . . . or not.
3. Quality. Maybe it isn't fair to say, but WotC's product line seems to have become more lackluster over time. Paizo has consistently put out balanced quality products. I trust an investment in Paizo products more than I trust in WotC's. (D&D that is. I really like the SWSE core rulebook. Didn't find Starships terribly worthy however, especially considering the amount of impressive fan-created ships and vessels. And while I'm a big fan of d20 Modern, I am wary of how WotC may handle it . . . if they do revisions.)
4. The Changes. Condensed skills and doing away with synergies. Love it. If anything, I'm unhappy with how some skills have been condensed and others have not. I'm also interested in how the core classes are being modified. I really like the notion of Arcane Bond, as opposed to wizards simply being stuch with familiars. And the CMB? It's interesting.
In the end, a lot of what's going into Pathfinder could be "house ruled" in already, hence backward compatible. I like that. Chances are, I'll house rule some rules in even upon Pathfinder's release. I'm comfortable doing this because I understand the rules with which Paizo is working. But as a baseline, Pathfinder is an impressive effort to revitalized 3.5 instead of feeling left behind simply because you don't feel compelled to get on the 4e bandwagon.