So far i've been toying with the notion of adapting the 4e rogue and ranger to the BESM d20 ninja and gun bunny, along with a few others.
Any thoughts on how the 2 might come together? Any potential problem areas you can think of (hopefully with a suggestion or 2 for getting around the problem)? I think the mecha pilot is going to be a pain when the point based system is stripped away.
is that 3x(Powerscard) & 2x(BurstFeat) = 5x times 6d10 AC57, 30d10
or is that 3 times (6d10+6d10Bursted) = 3x times 12d10 AC57, 36d10
Dont forget, it is simple enough to abide by the Burst Is Only +2 Dice concept by having guns like 2d6 9mm, 2d10 7.62, 2d20 20mm, 2d60 Abrams120... bigger dice have more range inc
2d30 AC57 + BurstFire = 2d30 + 2d30 (done as plus 2 dice)
heheee,
could you imagine a 100' giant robot trying to tiptoe within 30' of another 100' robot
to get
I think your bigger problems come into light when you consider what happens in the 4e style of playing 3[w] or 4[w] powers cards on McGuns that do 4d12 or 6d10 or 8d20 as s standard attack. With an Autocannon & BurstFeat, you gonna have that 3[w] card played become 3x(powerscard) 2x(burst) 6d10 57mmAutoCannon....
is that 3x(Powerscard) & 2x(BurstFeat) = 5x times 6d10 AC57, 30d10
or is that 3 times (6d10+6d10Bursted) = 3x times 12d10 AC57, 36d10
Dont forget, it is simple enough to abide by the Burst Is Only +2 Dice concept by having guns like 2d6 9mm, 2d10 7.62, 2d20 20mm, 2d60 Abrams120... bigger dice have more range inc
2d30 AC57 + BurstFire = 2d30 + 2d30 (done as plus 2 dice)
heheee,
could you imagine a 100' giant robot trying to tiptoe within 30' of another 100' robot
to getbackstabSneak Attack damage from his 2d60 RecoilessRifle. Is it still considered a Ranged attack if you have to get inside arms reach of the 100' guy?
Thank you for the hint. The idea i had for tackling that issue (burst, double-tap, and other multi-shot single target feats) was to make them feat-based encounter powers. Any thoughts?
HAHA, no.
So I'd only be able to burst fire or double-tap once per encounter?
HAHA, no.
I considered that might be a possible reaction. That's why i also thought of making it an at-will power. That would allow use each round and prevent it from stacking with other powers.
McBangStick: 40' falgpole with a 200lb iron bomb on the end Or the crowd pleasin MartyrMaker McDagger, suicidal handheld shapecharge 'dagger'
"This is gonna hurt me more than it hurts you.... but dont worry, it WILL hurt you"
Just because it is melee dont mean we have to use inanimate objects... hit him with some live ordinance, smack him upside the head with active munitions: Why hit him with a club when you can club him with a bomb. Cavemen tipped their spears with flint or bone, we tip ours with shapecharge plasic explosives.
heheee,
could you imagine a 100' giant robot trying to tiptoe within 30' of another 100' robot
to getbackstabSneak Attack damage from his 2d60 RecoilessRifle. Is it still considered a Ranged attack if you have to get inside arms reach of the 100' guy?
I'm reminded of a card in Munchkin-Fu called "Mecha-Ninja the 60 ton master of stealth." Mmmmmmmm 100 ton Mecha with the hide in plain sight ability "I was sure there was a giant robot outside the window a minute ago."
Another thought would be to simply use the existing ranged weapon damage for firearms. If Burst Fire and Double Tap were at-will powers, they would still out damage melee weapons. If you really felt the need, you could even give them the high crit ability.
Ranged weapons would use their existing damage. it would be like a ranged basic attack from 4e. But thatnks for the suggestion.
I am starting to take a shine to the feat providing an at-will power, instead of an encounter power. I'd also kinda like to allow it as an encounter power if you don't have the feat. Open up more options for the characters.
Dont count out McMelee Weapons just yet, you obviously have not considered my
McBangStick: 40' falgpole with a 200lb iron bomb on the end Or the crowd pleasin MartyrMaker McDagger, suicidal handheld shapecharge 'dagger'
"This is gonna hurt me more than it hurts you.... but dont worry, it WILL hurt you"
Just because it is melee dont mean we have to use inanimate objects... hit him with some live ordinance, smack him upside the head with active munitions: Why hit him with a club when you can club him with a bomb. Cavemen tipped their spears with flint or bone, we tip ours with shapecharge plasic explosives.
I like your ideas here. wacky, but good. I think these situations fall under the "things the rules don't cover" part of the DMG. Which actually thoroughly covers stuff that... oddly enough isn't covered.
D&D powers & feats are just not ready to accept that sometimes the baseline [w] = 4d20.
"I take a ManyShot with my [4d20] ranged weapon <3bullets from an uzi>"
Getting back to the 4e-ness,
D&D powers & feats are just not ready to accept that sometimes the baseline [w] = 4d20.
"I take a ManyShot with my [4d20] ranged weapon <3bullets from an uzi>"
Thank you very much for the post, it got me thinking.
I checked the modern rulebook and i couldn't find a single weapon (other than explosives) that did more than 2d12 damage. The aforementioned "<3 bullets from an uzi>" would only do 4d6 damage. That is [w] + 2d6, which is not base damage. It would be the damage for the burst fire at-will power.
Other than mecha weapons, can you stipulate what character-portable weapons do that kind of damage?
tell him to use it as a direct Longbow replacement,
and see how he plays the powers cards on that compared to his brother with a longsword
In the OP you talked about MechaPilot,
so I figured you might want to discuss the big guns and 4e style x[w] when [w] is massive
Give a D&D party elf a plain ole M1 Garand [2d10]
tell him to use it as a direct Longbow replacement,
and see how he plays the powers cards on that compared to his brother with a longsword
In the OP you talked about MechaPilot,
so I figured you might want to discuss the big guns and 4e style x[w] when [w] is massive
Oh, you were talking about a mecha weapon doing 4d20. That makes a lot more sense. My current notion on how to handle that is to treat mecha weapon attacks like powers granted by magic items in 4e. It's a power the item grants you the ability to use, and is activated in lieu of your personal powers. They'll all likely be at-will powers.
In their work, Dias Ex Machina has decided to move the damage dice of guns down to single sized dice. I don't know the exact number they chose, but I am guessing the same as regular guns but 1 die instead of 2 dice. So, 1d6 instead of 2d6. Higher PL weapons, instead of dealing more damage dice, get a bonus to attack and damage ala "magic" weapons. So, for example (I don't know if these are the exact numbers they use. I am just pulling this out of a hat) a PL 5 weapon becomes +1-+2, a PL 6 weapon becomes a +2-+3, so and so forth. This models how higher PL weapons are better at penetrating lower PL armors. Meanwhile, higher PL armors would likely gain the same (mechanically magical) bonus.
Alternatively, if you want your guns to do more damage, you could have the guns do something like 1 die of damage with a flat bonus to damage equal to the average damage of a die rounded down. So, for example, 1d6+3 damage instead of 2d6 damage. As only dice get multiplied in the multiplier[w] damage equation, this would keep guns dealing "gun like higher damage" without having their damage become totally broken due to multiplier style weapon powers.
Under either option, double tap or burst fire can be baseline at-will powers. Meanwhile, more potent double tap or burst fire options can be stated as encounter or daily powers. So, for example double tap might be at will, but "twice in the heart" might be a more powerful encounter power. In either case, the use of multiplier[w] damage powers will not break the system, as only one damage die will be multiplied, and this damage die will be comparable to the sort of 4e damage dice that are already being multiplied (between 1d4 and 1d12, depending on the size of the gun).
Finally, your idea of having vehicular weapons act as "alchemical" items is a very good one.
The massive increase in damage comes from powers.Or you could just say, Tech Level 1 = +1; Tech Level 2= +2. Seems an easier solution to me. Did I mention we have over 70 firearms?
so a PL4 revolver is +4 and a PL5 automatic is +5?
As weapon technology gets better, weapons dont actually get better.
As PL increases, weapons get better, a PL6 pistol is better than a PL5 Pistol.
However, pl8 and pl9 offer no improvement in firepower using their new and improved techs
Bold entries are RAW
Firearm MagnumRifle and AMR/ATR are very much not RAW
PL5+ introduced the supermag pistols, 357Max 440 454 475 50 500
How do those fit in the 1die plan
I thought D&D had guns, or Arbequs or HandCannons or some such
Just use those as a base to scale the rest of firearms from.
Consider the D&D gun to have the performance of a BrownBess musket, and run the Log3Log4 FtLb function to place the guns that are 2,3,5,8,10,20 times as powerful as that
So, you keep with single die and upgrade them with enhancement and other effects, like high crit and blast effects.
I mean in theory... ;)
10d6 Ignore5Hard/DR m72LAW rocket will do 1d6+3 to that ogre,
while a composite longbow will do 1d10+Str ?
I think I see the plan
Musket Pistol 1d6
Civil war pistol 1d6
357mag pistol 1d6
44/50 pistol 1d8
LasPistol 1d8
PlasPistol 1d8
FusionPistol 1d8
NuetronPistol 1d8
ParticalPistol 1d8
SigularityPistol 1d8
Duality Pistol 1d8
Tribary Pistol 1d8
DivinePistol 1d8
etc
Death Rays from the future are just not as good as a Composite Longbow
If a 12yo little girl manages to hit the ogre with her non-prof non-powered attack,
the high explosives now are 90% less explodey
A 40Bofors crew can swing that gun to shoot at 300mph planes,
shooting that 40mm Cannon at an ogre 100-300m away is no problem,
so the 40mm cannon would do how much to that ogre/dragon/Druid/fighter... 1d8? 1d12?
The only problem I see with it is that if your facing a creature with say DR5/+1 (if such still exists in 4th ed which I've never played) and you use a compound bow (PL 3 or 4 can't remember offhand) would it function as a +3 weapon? If so you made need to ramp up the scale so PL4 or 5 is the baseline and deal with the question of do lower PL's work as +0 or -x?
I also tend to draw on first edition ADnD for some things (poisons that can kill off the bat or drive you mad rather than reducing stats, creatures that are immune to non-magical damage etc) in which case having an inherent +1 per PL could be really important. Shoot a creature who can only be hurt by magical weapons with an ordinary long bow or PL 5 weapon and it laughs at you, do the same with a hadngun and you hurt it because handguns are effectively a +1 wepon (it has precedent afterall there were certain materials that had the same effect as magical enchantments), use a lasgun and again your hurting it not although this ones because it does energy damage rather than physical damage.
The only problem I see with it is that if your facing a creature with say DR5/+1 (if such still exists in 4th ed which I've never played) and you use a compound bow (PL 3 or 4 can't remember offhand) would it function as a +3 weapon? If so you made need to ramp up the scale so PL4 or 5 is the baseline and deal with the question of do lower PL's work as +0 or -x?
1) No, no creatures (that I have seen) in the D&D 4e RAW have DR X/+ x functions anymore. The way they designed 4e is, if a creature has a DR, it has a DR to a specific type of damage, and that is it. It always has that DR. Magic item bonuses are simply helpful because they give you a small damage bonus (the least of the benefits they grant, actually), and because they give you the bonus to hit you will need to reliably hit creatures of a particular level (because those creatures are built with a particular AC).
Translated into a modern game, without magic, characters would probably use the rules from the DMG in which they gain bonuses to hit and damage based on level (making magic items unnecessary). However, creatures equiped at a particular "technology level" would gain a bonus to their AC, and hit values, equal to that technology level. Thus, you would need technology of an appropriate level in order to hit creatures of a particular progress level. In this way you could have level 1 characters starting out with technology level 3 items (and thus all having the equivalent of +3 magic items), because the majority of the level one foes would probably have +3 to their armor class and to hit values due to their own "equipment." Meanwhile, if you are fighting foes with a lower technology level, you will have an easier time defeating them. And if you are fighting foes with a higher technology level, you will have a harder time defeating them. Thus, foes equipped with a lower or higher technology level should decrease or increase the experience gained from the encounter.
2) In a game without magic, only technology, a longbow would never function as a +3 magic item. There are no magic items. And longbows are not a technological device. In a game with magic and technology you could have a +3 magic longbow. But, through magic, that +3 magic longbow is as "advanced" as any +3 technology item would be. The only difference is its advanced via magic, not technology.
1) No, no creatures (that I have seen) in the D&D 4e RAW have DR X/+ x functions anymore. The way they designed 4e is, if a creature has a DR, it has a DR to a specific type of damage, and that is it. It always has that DR. Magic item bonuses are simply helpful because they give you a small damage bonus (the least of the benefits they grant, actually), and because they give you the bonus to hit you will need to reliably hit creatures of a particular level (because those creatures are built with a particular AC).
Translated into a modern game, without magic, characters would probably use the rules from the DMG in which they gain bonuses to hit and damage based on level (making magic items unnecessary). However, creatures equiped at a particular "technology level" would gain a bonus to their AC, and hit values, equal to that technology level. Thus, you would need technology of an appropriate level in order to hit creatures of a particular progress level. In this way you could have level 1 characters starting out with technology level 3 items (and thus all having the equivalent of +3 magic items), because the majority of the level one foes would probably have +3 to their armor class and to hit values due to their own "equipment." Meanwhile, if you are fighting foes with a lower technology level, you will have an easier time defeating them. And if you are fighting foes with a higher technology level, you will have a harder time defeating them. Thus, foes equipped with a lower or higher technology level should decrease or increase the experience gained from the encounter.
2) In a game without magic, only technology, a longbow would never function as a +3 magic item. There are no magic items. And longbows are not a technological device. In a game with magic and technology you could have a +3 magic longbow. But, through magic, that +3 magic longbow is as "advanced" as any +3 technology item would be. The only difference is its advanced via magic, not technology.
You are correct Dave. I have never seen a creature in 4e that uses DR X/+X or DR X/X material. The closest to the latter is the lycanthrope which has regen 5 per round, which fails to function for the next round if struck with a silver weapon. Otherwise resistance functions as you mentioned.
With respect to your argument about longbows, the post you quoted said compound bows. I don't know if you missed that, or you're assuming they're the same. Compound bows would, presumable, be a higher PL.
Well in a modern setting, the gear really makes a difference. Whether you are wielding a small calibur pistol or an assault rifle has a vastly different range of destruction, but anyone can use them. In the d20 Modern system this is represented by a -4 nonproficiency penalty.
To quote from (Ben Stiller's) Mr. Furious, "Guns... THAT's your power?"
However, if you begin taking down a gun and make it in line with a crossbow or an axe just to fit a certain scale is a mistake. IF the fact that higher powers having 4[W] modifiers is a problem, there are other ways to do it. In 1e and 2e, thieves had a backstab multiplier. At higher levels a thief could quadruple his damage on a perfect shot. In 3e they fixed the abuse by giving rogues additional dice instead of a multiplier.
My point is that instead of nerfing guns to fit the powers, change the power to read 1[W]+3d6 instead of 4[W]. Then all the equipment lists will still be valid and useful.
Just wondering though,
you refer to high x[w] multipliers,
will ranged Bow/Rifle attacks have the same multipliers as melee axe/greatsword attacks?
You know, if folks gove an AK47 1d8, then will max for AK47 be 4[1d8] to be on par with a 7[w] melee attack with a d10 or d12 chopper?
What is the highest x[w] a Fighter gets for a ranged attack anyway, 7[w] like for a axe?
Cause I saw a Ranger only gets up to 4[w] ranged, right?
Which actually would fit the d20Modern class concepts pretty well:
Strongs are pathetic with ranged, so they get the Fighter 7[w]Melee 1[w]Ranged,
and to simulate the low BAB Fasts get, we dont let them have 7[w] ranged, give them the Ranger 4[w] ranged so they can just not do as much as melee combatants. Simplicity in itself, Strongs cant shoot, Fasts cant deliver damage, all inline with the Fighter & Ranger 7[w] vs 4[w] 4e method.
You wanna kill a Tank, use melee on it.
The d20Modern theme holds up with 4e classes
7[1d12] melee aint too much, but 4[2d6]Ranged is?
My point is that instead of nerfing guns to fit the powers, change the power to read 1[W]+3d6 instead of 4[W]. Then all the equipment lists will still be valid and useful.
Is it really a matter of nerfing the gun to fit the power?
I don't believe that is so.
The basic fact is that many guns are overpowered.
The basic fact is that many guns are overpowered.
is that saying the d20Modern stats for guns are overpowered compared to d20modern melee weapons,
or that in reality a 30-06 / 8mag is grossly more powerful than crossbow?
D20Modern balanced the damage of guns over the damage of melee by letting melee get lots of ways to increase damage while its hard to increase gun damage. 4e does the same thing by letting a fighter use upto a 7[w] on melee weapons and 1[w]ranged, and even the Ranger only gets upto a 4[w] with ranged.
2d6 9mm vs 1d10 sword : melee 7[10] is WAY more than ranged 4[12]
even when we use a full rifle we still see them pretty close
2d10 8x57 vs 1d10 sword : melee 7[10] is not that far from 4[20]
[i]
if there is much doubt as to whether guns ARE more powerful,
please consult the excessively long Romans Vs Modern thread.... nobody is giving good odds for the romans due to common sense. And after all, shouldnt games at least give a passing nod to common sense even if they dont want to study physics
is that saying the d20Modern stats for guns are overpowered compared to d20 melee weapons,
or that in reality a 30-06 / 8mag is grossly more powerful than crossbow?
D20Modern balanced the damage of guns over the damage of melee by letting melee get lots of ways to increase damage while its hard to increase gun damage. 4e does the same thing by letting a fighter use upto a 7[w] on melee weapons and 1[w]ranged, and even the Ranger only gets upto a 4[w] with ranged.
2d6 9mm vs 1d10 sword : melee 7[10] is WAY more than ranged 4[12]
even when we use a full rifle we still see them pretty close
2d10 8x57 vs 1d10 sword : melee 7[10] is not that far from 4[20]
if there is much doubt as to whether guns ARE more powerful,
please consult the excessively long Romans Vs Modern thread.... nobody is giving good odds for the romans due to common sense. And after all, shouldnt games at least give a passing nod to common sense even if they dont want to study physics
What I'm saying is that getting hit with a shotgun blast and getting hit with a 2-handed battleaxe swing are roughly equal in lethality.
For that matter a fire axe is about as deadly as a 9mm or .45 acp
And really? It's hard to up the damage on guns?
There are ammo variants that do increased damage which require only a financial expenditure.
And don't forget the double tap and burst fire feats.
Or the autofire rules for your favorite weapon the AK-47 (it must be your favorite, I've seen you mention it in almost every post)? It has a chance to hit every person in a 10x10 area.
What I'm saying is that getting hit with a shotgun blast and getting hit with a 2-handed battleaxe swing are roughly equal in lethality
so you are advocating they both do 7[1d8] at high levels?
Lets stick to 30-06 or 308 so we dont stumble over the bad shotgun rules of d20.
You are saying you would give BattleAxe & .308Rifle the same damage,
that they both should get the full 7[w] since they both do the same damage.
But there is no way in any far stretch of possibility that a Medieval Crossbow is anywhere close to the damage of a .308Rifle ....which you just put at Battleaxe damage, so D&D crossbows should do far less than (.308/Battleaxe) damage
so you are advocating they both do 7[1d8] at high levels?
Lets stick to 30-06 or 308 so we dont stumble over the bad shotgun rules of d20.
You are saying you would give BattleAxe & .308Rifle the same damage,
that they both should get the full 7[w] since they both do the same damage.
But there is no way in any far stretch of possibility that a Medieval Crossbow is anywhere close to the damage of a .308Rifle ....which you just put at Battleaxe damage, so D&D crossbows should do far less than (.308/Battleaxe) damage
You just put it there.
I don't want your words in my mouth anymore than want mine in yours.
But it seems you just really dont want to have guns do more than axes,
and your interpretations, stats, and ideas in this thread are based on that belief.
So, please explain your damage relationship of Battleaxe - .308Rifle - Crossbow
if what I thought you meant was incorrect
Is it really a matter of nerfing the gun to fit the power?
I don't believe that is so.
The basic fact is that many guns are overpowered.
well, yes. If you are going to restat all firearms so that they fit in line with the existing medieval weapons (ie reducing the dice damage) then I would call that a nerf. guns are overpowered because they are more powerful. While a fireaxe would do alot of bloody damage, it does not have the kinetic energy of a high velocity slug. Bullets do more damage than simply putting holes in people. At the risk of setting off another hydroshock argument, I put forward that getting shot in the gut with a .45 pistol (2d6) is worse than a fireaxe to the midsection (1d8). The fire axe will do the obvious severe laceration and blunt damage, while the bullet will cause tissue damage over a wider area with more internal bleeding.
Now to counter my own point, the pattern of 4e has been to squish the older systems into neat cookie cutter shapes so they are less different and more balanced. In that vein you could make all the dice similar so it fits easier. But then why have different dice at all? Everything could just have the same stats and damage die. Who cares if one looks like a thrown dagger and the other looks like a Beretta? Its all fluff anyway, right?
Thats why I'm asking
But it seems you just really dont want to have guns do more than axes,
and your interpretations, stats, and ideas in this thread are based on that belief.
So, please explain your damage relationship of Battleaxe - .308Rifle - Crossbow
if what I thought you meant was incorrect
My point is that both a sigle gsw from a shotgun and a blow from a battleaxe are about equal in their lethality, but the shotgun clearly gets higher damage. Why? Cuz it's shooty, makes a big noise, and it's kinda phallic.
The only reason plate armors were discarded when less primitive firearms emerged is because it could penetrate the armor. The penetration is what made it more dangerous. It did not possess the ability to fundamentally inflict more physical damage than its medieval counterparts.
Both a warhammer and a hunting rifle are perfectly capable of splattering a human head like a watermelon at a Galagher show. The difference is that the bullet goes right through the armor to the person inside. The warhammer must expend most of it's energy deforming the platemail.
And, for the record, the medieval crossbow was so effective at piercing armor and so lethal that it's use was banned by the vatican. The crossbow became less effective as armorers pushed the envelope of their craft and created new alloys and thicknesses of armor.
Please dont use Shotguns as your prime examplar of firearms.
They really are not handled well in d20, and they really are not a good example of a typical firearm.
The difference is that the bullet goes right through the armor to the person inside. The warhammer must expend most of it's energy deforming the platemail.
the penetration is also what makes crossbows & guns do more damage. When one steps outside the narrow confines of All Targets Are 10" Thick, we can see the .308Rifle does vast quantities more damage to big things like Ogres and Buffalo than a centermass axe hit or crossbow hit.
A 76mm, 105mm, 155mm, 8" AP shell all do about the same damage to a guy, in relative terms you have a 4-9" hole in ya like a 2d6 damage Dynamite would do. However, those shells can also do several hundred damage to a big ole dragon, or a couple thousand to a battleship.
But getting back to the question I asked,
So, please explain your damage relationship of Battleaxe - .308Rifle - Crossbow
if what I thought you meant was incorrect.
If a Battleaxe swung by a limpwrist does 1d8, and a 308Rifle does the same as a battlexe in your plan, what does a crossbow do?
And of course you need to remember that its not just weapon vs size but weapon vs creature (as it were). So while to take a random example the 8" shell would do more damage vs a normal ship than a person the same shell might be less effective vs a ship that had been magically protected or against a dragon because while I assume its natural scales are probably fairly equivilent to a ships armour (going by story impressions rather than the DnD rule-set) it could add magical protections to that. If you see what I mean.
if we need to use a magis sword in a land of magic to fight magical dragon,
then we would use a magic 308Rifle in the land of magic to fight the magic dragon.
.... Craft Magic Arms & Armor doesnt limit metalwork to an anvil to exclude metalwork on a endmill lathe. Of course a mage would love to have a CNC or 5axis mill to make magic weapons, MagicSwords MagicAxes MagixBows MagicCrossbows MagicRifles... all stuff a mage could craft up the same way
against a dragon because while I assume its natural scales are probably fairly equivilent to a ships armour
You have any idea how many tons per sq meter 14" thick ship armor weighs?
Now double that, and that still gets punched clean thru when hit under 10000' range with AP shell.
As I said,
the problem is not that a 50BMG does the same damage to a guy as a Battleaxe,
but that after doing that damage the BMG slug still has 80-90% of its power left... to do that same '1body' damage to another target... and another after that, etc.
Put a 1/4" steel door between Hitter & Hittee,
Battleaxe cant penetrate
Crossbow loses 10 of its d10 damage
30-06 punches thru it, & thru the Hittee
.... so we can say they all are about equal then
IF one says BattleAxe = 308Rifle
and we know 308Rifle > Crossbow
then its a simple math dilema:
C < R, R = B, B < C ...... C < C ????
308Rifle > Crossbow
223Rifle > Crossbow
50AE > Crossbow
357mag ~ Crossbow
So, do all calibers from 357mag pistol to 375mag rifle do the same damage as a Crossbow,
since we can see a good similarity of 357pistol & Crossbow, and we are under the concept that 308Rifle & Battleaxe are on par?
I'm just trying to get a feel for where guns fit in his BattleAxe=Rifle plan
Does Battleaxe = 308Rifle?
Does Battleaxe = 223Rifle?
Does Battleaxe = 44mag?
Does Battleaxe = 375Rifle?
Do we have a new scale,
375Rifle = 1.2x Battleaxe
308Rifle = 1.0 BA
223Rifle = 0.8 BA
44mag = 0.6 BA
357mag= 0.5 BA
9mm = 0.4 BA
32LC= 0.2 BA
5.7FN = 0.2 BA
22mag = 0.1 BA .... uh, is that even 1d1 at this point?
The optional rule was "variable weapon damage".
This system of damage based on the size of the weapon made sense for D&D all the way through 3rd Edition, and then WotC came out with D20 Modern.
Suddenly the game designers were confronted with the very issue were discussing here.
How do you represent the increased penetration and trauma of fire arms in this established game mechanic?
The designers chose to go with basing damage on the size of the round and then adding an extra die to the damage.
Was this the right decision?
Should they have just let firearms ignore the armor bonus to AC(Defense)?
What about modern armor that specifically stops bullets?
For whatever reason they did what they did and now we have firearms that do 2 dice of damage in D20 Modern.
However, we don't have to follow that same design principle in 4E Modern.
IF we go with nerfing gun damage (lets face, it a 50% reduction in damage is a nerf), then we need to figure out how to represent the increased penetration and trauma of modern firearms some other way.
Lets leave the axe out of this; its damage compared to a crossbow is already set in the 4E rules. so the real comparison is between the crossbow and modern firearms.
IF crossbows are just as good as firearms why aren't modern armies equipped with crossbows?
Lots of reasons.
Fire arms are easier to use.
they have better range.
they have a higher ammunition capacity
they have a higher rate of fire.
AND (here's the sticking point)
the trauma inflicted by a bullet wound CAN BE much greater than the trauma inflicted by a crossbow bolt.
A crossbow bolt at worst will stick into you and puncture a lung or some other vital organ.
A bullet at worst will enter your leg (or some other non-vital area of the body), tumble through flesh, hit a bone, bounce off, tumble through more flesh, and THEN puncture your lung (or some other vital organ).
So the question we need to answer is "How do we represent this in 4E"?
Assume we leave all damage dice at single instead of double...
How about this?
1d8 Small caliber hand gun: .22, .25, 5.7mm, etc...
1d10 medium caliber hand gun: .357, .38, 9mm, etc...
1d12 large caliber hand gun: .44 caliber, .45 caliber, 10mm, etc...
1d10 small caliber rifle: .223, 5.56mm, etc...
1d12 medium caliber rifle: .30x caliber, 7.62mm, etc
1d20 large caliber rifle: .44 caliber, .50 caliber, etc...
In addition modern firearms ignore a certain amount of armor bonus to AC.
+4 small hand gun
+5 medium hand gun
+6 large hand gun
+7 small rifle
+8 medium rifle
+9 large rifle
Thoughts?
Assume we leave all damage dice at single instead of double...
How about this?
1d8 Small caliber hand gun: .22, .25, 5.7mm, etc...
1d10 medium caliber hand gun: .357, .38, 9mm, etc...
1d12 large caliber hand gun: .44 caliber, .45 caliber, 10mm, etc...
1d10 small caliber rifle: .223, 5.56mm, etc...
1d12 medium caliber rifle: .30x caliber, 7.62mm, etc
1d20 large caliber rifle: .44 caliber, .50 caliber, etc...
In addition modern firearms ignore a certain amount of armor bonus to AC.
+4 small hand gun
+5 medium hand gun
+6 large hand gun
+7 small rifle
+8 medium rifle
+9 large rifle
Thoughts?
pretty good
Just toss a blackpowder pistol & musket on that list (to demonstrate the transition from crossbow-musket-smokeless) and you really got something going on there.
pretty good
Just toss a blackpowder pistol & musket on that list (to demonstrate the transition from crossbow-musket-smokeless) and you really got something going on there.
Hmmmm....
I don't know very much about the properties of black-powder muzzle loaders...
but how's this for an initial stab at it?
1d6 small pistol
1d8 medium pistol
1d10 large pistol
1d8 small musket
1d10 medium musket
1d12 large musket
In addition black powder muzzle loaders ignore a certain amount of armor bonus to AC.
+2 small pistol
+3 medium pistol
+4 large pistol
+5 small musket
+6 medium musket
+7 large musket
Something else I noticed is that by only ignoring a certain amount of armor bonus to AC, it makes it easier to stat out modern body armor by its NIJ rating.
Wanna take a shot at that?
it actually might work better as a gun stat for each gun/caliber.
That way we can have more fiddle room to customize & diferentiate between guns, just stick to a +1 -1 of your base numbers
Stepping back to see what we want rolls to look like,
If a target is in "medium" armor, and we shoot a plain medium gun at him,
thats a d20 + (a lot of 4e tohit) +7FirearmPen ..... that is gonna be really high really quick.
Does 4e have some defense that I am forgetting, cause we dont want a +7 pen gun to just walk all over a MediumTactical Vest.
If we give EquipBonus = NIJ x3
A heavy NIJ4 vest would be like +12 and NIJ4 Suit would be like 14
That would mean a m14 non-AP would be +8 vs 12Armor ... like a RAW shot vs 4Armor
That would mean a m14 AP would be +10 vs 12Armor ... like a RAW shot vs 2Armor
That would mean a m14 AP would be +12 vs 12Armor ... like a RAW shot vs 0Armor
>
that was a top rated rifle against the heaviest armor, net 4Armor non-AP and net 0Armor AP
Is that what we want rolls to look like?
AP ammo vs a vest rated for that caliber, net zero Penetration & Armor
Do we want armor to still offer EquipBonus points on incoming that meet its rating...
a 357mag vs a vest rated upto 357mag... do we still want any AC help or zero armor out?
if we go with that we can figure out what the proper AC bonus should be for each level of vest and adjust the amount of AC bonus ignored.
and the armor penetration value isnt so much a + to hit as how much AC bonus is ignored...
so someone wearing armor with a +7 equipment bonus only gets to add +3 fo that bonus to thier AC when shot at with a small handgun.
I'll dig up a link for what rounds are stopped by what NIJ's
Due to manufacturers wanting to beat NIJ, we have to list all kinds of funky bulltes in bunches of calibers rather than LightPistols / non-Mag Pistols / 223&magpistols / 30-06AP. A bunch of 9mm and 357 and +p+ stuff stretch the limits of NIJ2, 3a, 3
we can worry about sorting different guns into differnt categories after we determine a baseline.
do you have a table of what rounds are stopped by what NIJ levels?
if we go with that we can figure out what the proper AC bonus should be for each level of vest and adjust the amount of AC bonus ignored.
and the armor penetration value isnt so much a + to hit as how much AC bonus is ignored...
so someone wearing armor with a +7 equipment bonus only gets to add +3 fo that bonus to thier AC when shot at with a small handgun.
I like the direction this last few posts are going. I just have 1 thing i'd like to clarify. The amount of AC ignored should never be more than the amount provided by whatever armor the target is wearing (for creatures that wear armor). Since there is no AC breakdown in the monster entries, it's fair that creatures with natural armor get slapped with the full AC reduction (perhaps with a minimum of 10+ 1/2 monster HD, cuz we know that won't come from armor).
I like the direction this last few posts are going. I just have 1 thing i'd like to clarify. The amount of AC ignored should never be more than the amount provided by whatever armor the target is wearing (for creatures that wear armor). Since there is no AC breakdown in the monster entries, it's fair that creatures with natural armor get slapped with the full AC reduction (perhaps with a minimum of 10+ 1/2 monster HD, cuz we know that won't come from armor).
well thats why I was specific about the words "Armor Bonus to AC".
I don't iintend bullets to ignore Dex Bonuses, level bonuses or the base 10 AC that you start with or any other bonus that isn't granted by armor, (natural or otherwise).
We have a plan on stating guns for Damage and WW's Penetration (BeatArmor) numbers.
In another thread we figured to use Keywords to put Autofire as a Basic Attack and Dtap Burst as Feat powers
now to Anime it up-
Gunbunnys, Sailorsuits,
This stuff looks like classes & class powers.... the Attack Naming is clearly made just for 4e Encounter Powers... I mean, you have an effective attack but only use it only once on a guy, then do something different each round ?
But how do we do up the social skill challenges of the Teen Angst part?
Make sure each class has Angst powers to choose at each level along with the combat powers? That way you tailor your character to your own balance of Guns & 16yoMilitaryGirly stuff.... but some classes will have a much heavier selection and more potent Angst powers like Encounter:Gloat or Daily:FauxFashion powers to use on folks
Keyword Angst
Angst powers, feats, abilities, & checks are a vital part of the Anime setting. From the glasses wearing smart sidekick that fails the check to talk to girl that likes him, to the McPilot girl losing advantage because Kiko played the EncounterPower:DoubleDate and is going to the movies with Hiroshi after the battle with you and Kenji.... to the captain of a submariner mechanized force that is overwhelmed by having to choose a soda from the machine. The Anime setting is full of life & death choices, and sometimes that comes down to choosing between the AllDay +1 Angst Checks ability or the Giant PervertWhammer celestial single use mallet that can only be summoned when a guy says something dirty (or even could be taken as dirty)
Angst checks
Angst checks occur with stupifying frequency in anime,
but then, when your military is made up of sailor suit highschool girls you gotta kinda expect that. Almost all character interactions can lead to an Angst check, which is usually a Will, Wisdom, or Int check. However some Angst keyword events could be physical, like at Dances or cooking or whatnot. The Angst check is a secondary or associated check, in the way that a Concentration check is not the end but a means to the end check.
Angst can be both a Cause and an effect. Due to failing an Angst check your performance may suffer, and penalties get applied... or you could make an important Angst check and get morale bonuses..... usually brought by besting a Rival (not enemy).
Angst Powers
Each class should have available to choose at most levels an Angst power. Some classes will have more potent Angst powers than others... in the way that Fighters get 7[w] attacks while Rangers only get 4[w]. Angst powers are usually only modifiable by or defended with other Angst keyword powers/abilities/feats. These include both combat and non-combat activities, such as the Giant PervertWhammer AngstPower is most frequently used outside of combat, while the HeDoesntLikeYou combat taunt can cripple the most resolute warrior (note: most resolute warrior is usually a highschool girl)
Will McPilots be getting McPowers to help mcfight with their [6d10]McCanons?
Or will McCombat be using attacks and maneuverer that have the same quality regardless of training focus or specialty of the pilot.... McViloator Canon Attack is the same regardless whether its Jonny "MrAutocanons" Rogers or LilSuki the bridge bunny.
Will McPilots be able to focus on some aspects of mcfighting more than others,
To wit: other chars are not all equally good with melee AND ranged AND electronics AND healing. Some folks focus on using guns, some on melee, some on stealth, others on expert skills..... so will McPilot classes make all McPilots just clones with no mcfighting difference
If a L30 McPilot shoots his McViolatorCanon its a gun granted power 1[6d10] attack on the sandworm,
his sidekick the L4 McPilots shoots his viloator gun granted attack for 1[6d10],
and the squishy L30 Fighter swings an axe at the sandworm for 7[d12] +magic +str (+buffs)?
Gunbunnies wont be that hard to class up.
Will McPilots be getting McPowers to help mcfight with their [6d10]McCanons?
Or will McCombat be using attacks and maneuverer that have the same quality regardless of training focus or specialty of the pilot.... McViloator Canon Attack is the same regardless whether its Jonny "MrAutocanons" Rogers or LilSuki the bridge bunny.
Will McPilots be able to focus on some aspects of mcfighting more than others,
To wit: other chars are not all equally good with melee AND ranged AND electronics AND healing. Some folks focus on using guns, some on melee, some on stealth, others on expert skills..... so will McPilot classes make all McPilots just clones with no mcfighting difference
If a L30 McPilot shoots his McViolatorCanon its a gun granted power 1[6d10] attack on the sandworm,
his sidekick the L4 McPilots shoots his viloator gun granted attack for 1[6d10],
and the squishy L30 Fighter swings an axe at the sandworm for 7[d12] +magic +str (+buffs)?
Wow. That's way too many "Mc"s for me to handle. And I'm irish.
... and even mech is short for Mecha
If we do up a 10 level AdC or 20level Class for McPilots,
wont it have some n[McW] attack powers?
... I mean, besides gaining 100MP each level to add to their starting 400MP to spend on McStuff
Giant HeavyArmored Mecha with 6d12 Canon = Big Armored mecha with 24d20 Cannon:
At 4th level, and 700MP, what is the hardest hitting McGun availible to the McPilot?
10% of the total mecha MP cost?
50% of the total mecha MP cost?
80% of the 700 mechapoints?
McFighter
MechaPoints: 300mp for the class, +100mp each level, to get MP Equipment
Lest flesh this out a bit
[indent]McFighter class ability
You are proficient in combat with Mecha equipment. This single ability is good for any on board piloted equipment purchased with MP, be it ground, air, water, or space environment combat. Remotely operated equipment of the same nature included.
- McFighters are granted a Basic Mecha Melee attack, and Basic Mecha Ranged Attack
. - McFighters are to be considered to meet any Trained Only requirements for any sub systems of mecha, and may use that on systems of the same nature that are not on their mecha. If their mecha has a Radar system, they meet any requirements of Trained Only to operate that radar, and any other radar systems such as Shipboard or Emplaced.
. - McFighters have access to keyword "Mecha" activities, and are considered Trained.
They also have a synergy Trained -2 for activities requiring "Gunnery" or "Melee" that they would otherwise not be qualified for
. - McFighters have Mechs. Entering the class grants 300MP of purchasing power, plus 100MP each level including 1st. A 1st level McFighter will have a base 400MP, while a 4th level will have 700MP. At 10th level they receive 500 bonus MP
[/indent]
[INDENT]AtWill +2ToHit 1[w]
Encounter 2nd 1[w] attack
Daily 2[w]
Encounter +5 ToHit
Encouner 2[w]
Encounter Angst minor attack
Encounter Angst minor bonus
Daily 3[w]
Daily Agnst bonus
Daily 2 attacks 1[w] & Miss 1/2
Encounter -4Tohit 3[w]
Encounter Burst2 1[w]
Encounter Agnst bonus
Encounter Angst attack
Daily 3[w] miss 2[w]
Daily 5[w] Coredump [/INDENT]
The actual fluff text is less important at the moment than setting the powerfulness and usefulness
What are we gonna do about getting the Bikini Catgirls in the rules?
And dont tell me I am the only one.... I'm just saying what you all are thinking
What would TankPolice be without the catgirls
just as we should give Angst equip bonuses for Sailor Schoolgirl Uniforms.
Hey Sarge, whats that mech pilot wearin them Bunny Ears for?
"Plus2 son... fuzzy bunny ears for a lousey +2 vs PeerPressure. ...I'm gettin too old for this crud"
Some of the stuff you mentioned is good old fashioned fan service, which is easy enough to handle through proper DM narration of an anime style game.
Other things are more like social situations resolved with skill challenges (which could have utility powers granting bonuses to certain skills, definitely).
Some more of the things you mentioned are clearly power oriented. Like a crushing remark or action that gives penalties to a demoralized foe.
And I had a thought for some of the more intense angst. Angst as a type of psychic damage.
There could be Angst helping feats as well.
Most Angst applications would be Wis or Cha based.... or Cha vs Wis for the popular person mocking your homemade hair scrunchie: do you have the strength of will to stand up to that kind of socil attack without caving in (and turning chibi with tear fountains shooting out of your head)
I was kinda penciling in how Angst Powers could work in scope with other class powers, and havent really developed all the other legs of the Angst system beyond generally knowing the other parts like Challenges & Feats will exist.
Some classes, mostly combat classes, should get few Angst powers while the more Social classes get more Angst choices and more potent then others of same level
What about Sanctuary effects for the SideKick class?
Maybe moreaus should get Sidekick bonuses?
Sentient Robots/AI's.... yeah sure, you betchya
You're definitley right. Catgirls are a large part of anime's appeal to a large number of people. They'll definitely need to be statted up as a race.
On the following link page http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/User_Races they have a few homebrew races for Catgirls and Neko Races... Hope this help
On the following link page http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/User_Races they have a few homebrew races for Catgirls and Neko Races... Hope this help
tyvm. Unfortunately none of those are made for 4e.
+2 Reflex defense
HP and healing surges as a member of the striker role.
Proficient with pistols, daggers, and swords.
Proficient with cloth armor, light mecha, heavy mecha, and mecha shields.
A class feature that lets you summon a mecha once per encounter. The mecha grants temporary HP equal to the pilot's surge value. The mecha can keep fighting after these temporary hp are used up, but any further damage is absorbed by the pilot's HP. The mecha is dismissed after a short rest, at which point the pilot loses an amount of hp equal to the temporary hp granted by the mecha. If this drops the pilot to zero hp or less, he falls unconscious.
Mecha also grants an armor bonus to AC. Light mecha grant +2 or +3, Heavy mecha grant +6 to +8. Some mecha also have light or heavy shields.
The pilot's power list contains some powers with the mecha keyword that can only be used while piloting mecha; and other powers that have an additional effect when piloting a mecha (like the additional effect of certain pacts on lock powers).
did you just say summon a mecha each encounter?
For lack of a better term, yes, I used the word summon.
Without that word, The mech would always be there, and we'd need repair rules. Not that I'm against such a thing, but I was trying to keep it simple since it was just a sudden inspiration.
And lest you forget, summoning a mecha is also one of the staples of anime. I can recall, off the top of my head, 2 series where this was the case: Guyver and Big O.
The atwil Repair powers and encounter repair powers will be a real waste to take if the mechs just poof in & out of existance
As I mentioned, it was just a sudden inspiration for how it could work.
Any thoughts on mecha as armor? or the gaining of temporary hp?
in other words if the warrior can get away with using a ak47 with explosive ammo ( with modifiers and such somewhere near 12D10 or so) so we make the monsters closer to the tarrasque with better armor and regeneration to a certain point, make the game more fun or get them to drop the powerful weapons and go for something easier to use that will do more damage naturally.(why go for an ak47 with explosive ammo when a flamethrower with semi-radioactive goo flying from it will do more damage and hurt the creature easier... hehe
j/k but then again maybe not... hrm...
Not A Pen Dragon
Any thoughts on mecha as armor? or the gaining of temporary hp?
There really are 2 types of this stuff: PowerArmor and GiantRobots
Powerarmor is Medium size and your hands & feet are in the hads & feet of the suit
Anything that has hands & feet of the operator not in the hands & feet of the construct is a GiantRobot... even if it is a Tank shaped GiantRobot or a Scorpion shaped giant robot
The MP system does not account for sizes, a Hardness50 suit can come in Giant Robot or StormtrooperSuit armor, so balancing the need for antitank weapons is a matter of WHO you are going up aginst rather than how many hit dice.
IF we say a Marksman Mechsman classsed guy has 700mp of McMateriel at 3rd level,
and a Tough3 has an Axe & a 9mm
we will watch in horror as the Tough3 gets stepped ala Bambi vs Godzilla
Even when a Melee Mechsman classed guy uses his 700mp for an infantry ParticlePulse Sword or PbJReflux Spear, and a suit of moderate powerarmor, we have infantry with Hardness30 and a [w]=6d8 spaceman Spear .... and more gear in addition to that at 3rd level... all vs some Strong3 dweeb that cant buy 'MP' materiel
so
do we add to the Wealth system to let all folks & monsters get MP materiel
or have just the mechy classes get obscene uberness
or just calculate the MP2PDC and say mech pilots have to be 8th or 10th level before getting anything cool
.... which is soooooooo not what 18yo Sailorsuit catgirls with mechs is
A lot of customization will be available through power selection.
1) Do you want your mech to have jump jets? That's cool. Just take the jump jet utility power.
2) Do you want your mech to have an energy sword? That's easy too. Take the at-will mecha melee weapon power.
3) Do you want low-light or darkvision sensors? That's a utility power.
4) Do you want a flying mech? Flight is just one utility power away.
I will grant you that not all of these capabilities are available at lvl 1. But that's only natural. A mech pilot shouldn't be able to fly out of danger any sooner than a magic user could cast a flight spell or a fighter could use a flying carpet. This is part of the balance issue. A character that can fly suddenly becomes immune to pitfalls and is able to ignore terrain (making combat less challenging than it should be).
And frankly, hardness is just plain broken without any kind of build points... so that's most likely out the window too. Don't get me wrong, I see your point about mechs as power armor vs mechs as vehicles (as a battletech player, I am very aware of the difference you've pointed out there). If you add hardness, you have to lower the temporary hp granted by the mecha and figure out a way to calculate its AC defense. In all honesty, as long as you're keeping an eye on balance, there is probably no mechanical difference between missing more often and hitting more often but without doing damage. It's just easier to use the existing AC mechanic.
For those reasons, I am so not going the build point route.
You're kidding, right?
No. I am not kidding.
I assume you have readied an action to reply... so it's your initiative.
Anyhoo,
I cant process the concepts of sumoning guns trucks & tanks,
that just grow more abilities each level as you burn powers on them,
but lose capability if a diferent pilot drives it
so I'll drop out and let you & the others work out the details of your plan
that requires a Utility Power to use Night Vision Goggles and another Utility Power to use a walkie talkie and another Utility Power to fly the plane that has Comms & FLIR.... But I cant stress enough that spending a Power on Landing is vital
It will really suc to be a guy that summons his tank
in a no FX game of Robotech Catgirls on Ice: HomecomingQueens & CyberJacks
Anyhoo,
I cant process the concepts of sumoning guns trucks & tanks,
that just grow more abilities each level as you burn powers on them,
but lose capability if a diferent pilot drives it
so I'll drop out and let you & the others work out the details of your plan
that requires a Utility Power to use Night Vision Goggles and another Utility Power to use a walkie talkie and another Utility Power to fly the plane that has Comms & FLIR.... But I cant stress enough that spending a Power on Landing is vital
No one else should be piloting your mech. Anyone capable of piloting a mech will be a mecha pilot and will have their own mecha. Also, there is a difference between gear like nightvision goggles and adding darkvision to a class feature. It may not warrant a power, but it is a customization worthy of a feat for a small bundle of optical goodies for your mech.
I have found another game that requires less modification to truly represent the anime genre. As it is not a d20 system game, I will not be posting my notes or modifications to it here.
In spite of the arguments that arose from this thread, I'd like to thank everyone who contributed material to this thread in the spirit of constructive cooperation.
I guess thta eliminates the 'creative differences' between me and another poster here
... he aint postin no more so I guess we wont be conflicting no more
So, without more adoo-
Lets fire up them Robotech, TankPolice, and FullMetal Panic dvds , and
I mean
DRAFT US SOME CLASSES!!
As such,
Who wants to keep the WoC style of RangedGimping (eg: StrMA best sniper)
vs giving melee and ranged guys the same potency to hit & hurt?
Will our melee Mech pilot class and ranged MechPilot class employ that gimp?
Other than weapons, what can we have non-Mech folks spend "their MP" on to balance the Mechy guys getting MP materiel?
If I tried to make up a class,
that had the char on a bad roll
get emotionally crushed by angst by having to choose a soda from the machine
... I could justify it by pointing to the FullMetalPanic teen girl captain commanding a submarine aircraft carrier ful of gunships and mechs and various armed goons.... getting emo at the soda machine.
Lion, Bear, Snake, and Crane classes, and thats it... you choose your own path
each with a different fighting style... be it Measured(wise), tough/strong, fast/sneak, or Team/setup
but also have Angst styles... buffing, vulnerable, aggressive, debuffing/defenseive
and all have access to Mechs &Machineguns &Machettes, but potency/theme of powers varies
and we avoid the whole can of worms over Role names vs actual jobs vs classes
"Oh no, he's gonna use his KoalaKrush bearpower attack on us... we're DOOOooommed..."
Anime genre
Anime isn't a genre any more than "book" is a genre.
Can't we call anime a genre just within this topic
? How about "medium"? Pop culture?Bear
Strong & sturdy, force over finesse
Better at hurting than hitting.
Activities based on Str & Con, physical soultions (Smash & DoorKick)
Melee 7, Thrown 4, Projectile 1, WeakAngst
Snake
Agile and Quick
Better at hitting than hurting
Activities based on Dex and Int, outside the box solutions (Flank & LockPick)
Melee 4, Thrown 1, Projectile 7, Offensive Angst
Crane
Smart and Talented
Combo-Teamwork, and turning enemy strength back at them
Activities based on Int and Wis & Cha, (healing) combo-attacks, counterattacks, situation control
Melee 2, Thrown 2, Ranged 2, BalancedAngst, TeamCombo 4, Counterattack/Def (& Healing)
Lion
Dedicated and Balanced
Commanding presense, balanced fighting style, Buffs
Activities not focused, generalist leader / teamplayer
Melee 3, Thrown 3, Projectile 3, BuffingAngst, Team3
All classes get the 300 + 100/level MP for materiel (when applicable)
Considering +1/3 Classlevel for Class Skills (to accomodate Multiclassing focus)
McPowers will be included in each class to fit the style of the class
Evil Cheerleders would be Lion/Snakes,
Comic SIdekicks would be xxxx/Cranes,
Captain McAce could be Bear,Snake, Bear/Snake
Angsty transfer student girls can be lions (battling the EvilCheerleadersClique), even when they have no team to lead
be a Class Ability, Class Power, or Basic Power?
That will be included in the section on 'TearFountain' Projectile Crying and Chibi CutScenes.
The idea I have for the chibi cutscenes is a stoptime or BulletTime like MaxPayne
... but ChibiTime (cant touch this)
And I had a thought for some of the more intense angst. Angst as a type of psychic damage.
If we make the classes 10levels,
that would be a pretty good 6th & 10th ability, doing HP damage & healing by Angst
just for review of what is penciled in for Angst pages back
Keyword Angst
Angst powers, feats, abilities, & checks are a vital part of the Anime setting. From the glasses wearing smart sidekick that fails the check to talk to girl that likes him, to the McPilot girl losing advantage because Kiko played the EncounterPoweroubleDate and is going to the movies with Hiroshi after the battle with you and Kenji.... to the captain of a submariner mechanized force that is overwhelmed by having to choose a soda from the machine. The Anime setting is full of life & death choices, and sometimes that comes down to choosing between the AllDay +1 Angst Checks ability or the Giant PervertWhammer celestial single use mallet that can only be summoned when a guy says something dirty (or even could be taken as dirty)
Angst powers, feats, abilities, & checks are a vital part of the Anime setting. From the glasses wearing smart sidekick that fails the check to talk to girl that likes him, to the McPilot girl losing advantage because Kiko played the EncounterPoweroubleDate and is going to the movies with Hiroshi after the battle with you and Kenji.... to the captain of a submariner mechanized force that is overwhelmed by having to choose a soda from the machine. The Anime setting is full of life & death choices, and sometimes that comes down to choosing between the AllDay +1 Angst Checks ability or the Giant PervertWhammer celestial single use mallet that can only be summoned when a guy says something dirty (or even could be taken as dirty)
Highschool catgirls in sailor suits running the millitary
is not an accurate portayal of the modern world? ;)
Angst can be like FX,
if you dont want it just dont have it. If we try to keep most of the Angst as powers & feats choices, then it wont disturb the rest of the system if folks have to pick non-angst powers/feats instead
I am hoping this can be used for everything from BattleTech/Robotech to FMP-fomufu or Project A-Ko