My houserules, psuedo-4e inspired. - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 leonidus Dec 29, 2007 17:03:06	New stuff in red! I like some of what I see in 4e, some stuff I'm not sure about, but I'll leave that to when I pick up the books in June. (my main beef is with the unified progression. I liked the difference in numbers, especially Modern's smaller variations in save types, so unless they just replicate it by saying "this class gets +2 attack/save/etc" as class features, it's going to wind up looking pretty similar. Meh.) For now, I have some changes for the d20 modern game I'm running that I want to play out. Some of it is 4e-inspired, other parts are just, this sounds damned cool for a mechanic. I'll leave out my setting-specific junk, just because I haven't nailed all that down yet. (mostly it's my magic system and non-human races, not as much impact on general combat mechanics.) The general idea is to turn more mechanics into (active) attack vs. (passive) defense. (Comparing rolls gives the same odds, but with one fixed, the results are more palpable.) More use of the save elsewhere in the system mechanics, to cover more options. (in d20 modern, especially, without spells or special abilities to consider, Will seems to be a lot less used.) Swift & Immediate Actions I personally love these. The immediate action gets a little harder to track, but it's more a matter of familiarity. Not much use of these, but I can picture some as it goes. I know I'll be using them in spells a lot. I'm not going to mess with the skills list in general, I don't want to dive into that pile just yet. I do have plans for a few specific changes, tho. Saves Saves becomes defenses, much as in SWSE. (usual save bonus + 10 as a defense score) Touch score is rolled into Reflex Defense, and Grapple's size mod is added to Fort defense. (think about it, a bigger creature has a more substantial immune system for poisons, and this expands fort to include stability and 'physicality' functions rather smoothly.) Grapple, Bull Rush, Trip With Fort defense eating grapple, the special attacks become a more unified mechanic. If you attack with an untrained weapon-type, you threaten an AoO, but the rest doesn't provoke. The idea here is it's easy to start, but also easy to escape. Denial of start would become a function of a feat, rather than neccesary from the core. See feats for my idea about extra material to cover this. To bull rush, make a charging attack vs. fort. (stability bonus adds to fort) They move 5 feet, +5 feet for every 5 points over defense, if you choose to move with. To trip, make an armed attack vs. fort. (stability bonus adds to fort) If it hits, they fall. To grapple, make an unarmed attack vs. fort. If it hits, they're held. Once in grapple: Melee vs. their fort to deal unarmed damage, move the grapple pile, or escape from grapple. Melee vs. their fort to pin. Pinned defender then takes -4 on check to break pin, before they can subsequently break the grapple. No % chance to hit wrong target when attacking from outside the pin. Dex check vs. their reflex to draw a weapon, which can then be used for a standard attack vs. fort next turn. Lunge & Retreat In addition to the usual full-round charge and withdraw, respectively, a player can perform a Lunge as a standard action, moving up to their regular speed and making an attack with the usual bonuses and penalties of a charge, and use a Retreat as a move action, at only single speed, provided each action is the only movement, including 5-ft steps, they make in the round. This leaves the other half of the action, the move or standard, respectively, for the use of other class features, special abilities, or spells. (see feats entry below for related ideas) Critical Hits Taken from the new Dragon article, which was a "holy that's cool!" A critical roll, such as a natural 20 on a club, which usually deals 1d6 +str, instead of confirming the hit, then doing 2d6 +(2 x str), it just deals maximum damage, or just 6 +str, no confirm needed. Expanded crit ranges are the same, and extra-damage ranges like x3 or x4 are halved, then applied to the maximized total. So, on a battleaxe that usually does 1d8+3, for instance, instead it does 8+3 * 1.5, or 16. Likewise, a scythe at the same bonus would do 22, or 8+3 * 2. Some of this stuff is like, dang, why didn't I think of that? That's simple to use, AND elegant! Handle Animal, Intimidate, Sense Motive Skill check versus Will defense, with bonuses on Will defense for various situations, like the Handle Animal DCs. Perception Score Debating this one.. 10 + Spot and Listen totals, to replace the usual "Something might be up, make a spot/listen check, oh, no, never mind." Feats I've also got a selection of feats from D&D books I'm looking to include in the modern side. List of Borrowed Feats: Monster Manual Awesome Blow Flyby Attack Hover Improved Natural Armor Improved Natural Attack Multiattack Multiweapon Fighting Snatch Wingover Expanded Psionics Handbook Cloak Dance Mind Over Body Open Minded (also in Complete Adventurer, as I recall) Rapid Metabolism Reckless Offense Sidestep Charge Stand Still Complete Adventurer Brutal Throw Danger Sense Deft Opportunist Dual Strike Extraordinary Concentration Goad Improved Diversion Improved Flight Leap Attack Mobile Spellcasting Power Throw Complete Arcane Dive For Cover: On attack vs. your Ref, force a reroll, but you become prone. Complete Warrior Dash Elusive Target Shock Trooper Miniatures Handbook Mage Slayer Reckless Charge Second Wind Sidestep Races of Destiny Roofwalker Races of the Wild Aerial Reflexes Improved Flight Player's Handbook II Bounding Assault Combat Acrobat Combat Cloak Expert Einhander Grenadier Keen-Eared Scout Lunging Strike Shadow Striker Tumbling Feint Two-Weapon Pounce¹ Two-Weapon Rend Vexing Flanker ¹ - Two-Weapon Pounce may ring some alarms in some people's heads, I plan on limiting excess natural attacks in my races, making them either replace weapon-hand attacks, or requiring a special action to use, rather than integrating them into a massive full-attack routine.
#2 leonidus Dec 29, 2007 21:07:27	This is getting to be for me as much a place to organize my thoughts as a post for public review and commentary, so here's my setting-specific material. If I get more thought put into this all, I may post it up on my website. (badly in need of updates, but what can you do when time is short?) I use the standard d20 representations for natural animals, but all of my monsters have my own unique spin, and use my own build-up. Setting-Specific Rules & Info Part of this is actually inspired by the morality and derangement system out of World of Darkness. I should explain that in my game world, anyone can use magic, but the more you do, the more it changes you. Early tribes of humans effectively mutated themselves into the different mythological races, spread out. Then, in the face of the ever-present hordes of humanity who hunted them down, hid themselves by turning human again, their mutations recessively hidden but still present in genetic code. In modern day, anyone who uses magic, and happens to have these recessive traits, re-awakens them as they use magic, turning into elves, ogres, demons, etc. Humanity & Harmony These scores run from 1 to 10. Players start at 10 in each. The character sheet has a line for each number, from 10 to 1, descending. The total score is used as an attack vs. the character's own will defense. If it hits, they lose a point, and gain a mutation or a deviation. More on this later. Humanity represents the character's differences from human norm. Generaly, this takes the form of physical traits, such as ability mods, and racial special abilities. Harmony represents the character's synchronicity with the natural world. Depending on personal actions, some things will cause a person to break from the natural flow, bending reality around them in some way, making them feel alien and unsettling. Demons/fiends and aberrations have a lower harmony score, as do powerful fey, angelic beings, and some gods. The modifications here are more along the line of special psionic/innate abilities, generally things which outright break the laws of reality, like inhuman strength without apparent mass, generating energy fields, telekinesis, turning one thing into something else chemically unrelated, inherent 'superhero' flight abilities, etc. Regular magic in my world doesn't work like that, it generally follows natural laws of physics, as long as one considers that the system is never perfectly closed, the extra energy/matter/etc always comes from somewhere. (As it happens, entropy is an illusion, the energy is never gone, just beyond observation.) A strength spell would make you physically grow bigger and stronger, TK generally creates an invisible force to do the work, and magical flight is more about controlling wind and air on a minor scale. Minor differences, but it creates the flavor I'm going for. (more to come, as I think of it.)
#3 deadsquidwalking Jan 03, 2008 21:28:41	Well, your 4e rules seem solid enough though I'm not sure about your Humanity/Harmony rules; is there any real mechanical benefit for having a high Humanity/Harmony score (after all, ya gotta have SOME incentive to stay human :P )?
#4 leonidus Jan 04, 2008 1:22:43	Thank for replying, after a hundred-some views, I was worried NOBODY was going to say anything. My next game session is tomorrow, and I wanted some opinions before I shoved this stuff down my players' throats baselessly. On the scores... Do I? Really? Well, I guess. The thing is, I have considered inverting the scale, but humanity/harmony as terms flow a lot better, I like them better than other terms I've looked up. (I'm open to suggestions..) I'm open to ideas. For one, I'm considering a penalty to social skills, but that doesn't really impact fighter characters and conversely severely hurts social ones. The other is something approximating Level Adjustment without being that right out, maybe a one-time XP buy-off. (your next XX experience is docked for that point of Humanity you lost..) Kinda like the Necropolitan template.. There's also that I'm considering using an internal drawback in each mutation/deviation, to balance the pure gain of each one. You gain + to this, but - to that. You gain a +2 to Strength, but suffer a -2 on skills requiring fine manipulation. Or something. I don't want a direct +2 str/-2 dex or anything, these are supposed to add up over time, but not be insurmountable difficulties. Some of the more mechanical ones could probably even be bought off with feats. (or concepts that are more powerful, broken down into a cheaper version and then a feat which enhances it to the full concept.) Anyhoo... Thanks for the commentary. Please, everybody, let me know what you think! I have a thick skin, I can take criticism without tears. (I won't accept it blindly, I've got a pretty good sense when things just go out the window, but all the same, I'll keep it in mind.)
#5 leonidus Jan 05, 2008 2:23:41	Well, session was shelved, only one player showed, and the other main player, who brings his two buddies, couldn't come. Meanwhile, this article was posted. Inspired the following, which has been added above: Critical Hits Taken from the new Dragon article, which was a "holy that's cool!" A critical roll, such as a natural 20 on a club, which usually deals 1d6 +str, instead of confirming the hit, then doing 2d6 +(2 x str), it just deals maximum damage, or just 6 +str, no confirm needed. Expanded crit ranges are the same, and extra-damage ranges like x3 or x4 are halved, then applied to the maximized total. So, on a battleaxe that usually does 1d8+3, for instance, instead it does 8+3 * 1.5, or 16. Likewise, a scythe at the same bonus would do 22, or 8+3 * 2. Some of this stuff is like, dang, why didn't I think of that? That's simple to use, AND elegant! Consequently, tho, I may have to start taking the SRD and re-typing affected tables.
#6 leonidus Jan 05, 2008 19:38:41	Both Humanity and Harmony are fluid. They come and go under special circumstances. Acts of great emotion, like anger, hatred, desperation, or love, they open the gateway, causing the first awakening, and influence the path one's humanity mutations take, towards the demonic, elemental, fey, or bestial paths. When you experiences the first awakening, even if it's not obvious, you're changed forever. You can never go back, in more ways than one. Not only do you experience physical changes, but you've just become a candle in a field of shadows. There are beings, demons, wraiths, and spirits, which can see that light, and are drawn to it, attempting to influence you. Most of them can feed on the light, passively, but some, such as wraiths, try to consume the source itself, your soul. The farther you progress along in power, the more your light shines, making you a target. When you do things which match the goals, feel, and emotions of a path, you gain a rank along that path. It's almost like a pact, except these goals can be achieved without your knowledge. In fact, some of these are actual pacts, such as the pacts between tribal shaman priests, and the animal spirits, creating werecreatures. For instance, if you act out in rage and hatred, you have just committed a demonic act, and will gain demonic features. Now, some characters have an established heritage, and regardless of the cause of the act, they will first gain the features of that heritage before anything else. (Generally.) On the other hand, acts which are directly opposed to the paths you've already gained, such as choices to do something else, rather than act as has gained you power. To continue the example, if you make a choice of love and sympathy, in the face of a chance to act out that demonic hatred or be destructive, you will lose those mutations. (To maintain demonic power, one must be angry, hurtful, destructive. That's not to say purely evil, the demonic philosophy is chaotic, survival-of-the-fittest.) Even though you've lost the mutations, however, that doesn't mean the're erased from your soul, they're still written, and become new default racial traits, which would likewise be passed to your descendants. Only extreme circumstances will allow you to erase that path, like overwhelming acts which serve another path, after a time, those traits of the same level will overwrite your normal ones. The other side to this is that this is a dropping scale for a reason. While you can't ever get back to a full 10, it's also possible to go too far. When your score reaches 0, you have truly lost touch with your humanity, or become dissonant in the harmony of the world. Loss of humanity can cause your mind to degrade, driving you either insane, feral, possibly even losing your corporeal body and becoming a spirit. (in some cultures, this is an honor, but what PC wants to kill themselves in effectively a magic overdose?) Loss of all harmony is even worse, you become so unnatural that the very universe rejects you, and you disappear altogether. (Some say you are dispersed to the far corners of the galaxy, others say you shift to a different plane of existence. Who's to say? Nobody's ever come back, that we know of.) All magics are tied to these paths of humanity. Certain schools are variable, but most are linked to one path or another. Any use of magic is therefore an act along some path or another. Even before your awakening, ritual spells allow you to use magic without having tapped your heritage; indeed, normal humans, who lack any predisposed bloodline, can use magic with less fear of transformation. Untainted Bloodline You never had any unusual ancestors. What a pity. Prerequisites: Humanity 10 Benefit: You gain a +4 bonus your Will defense when risking Humanity loss. Special: This feat can only be taken at Humanity 10. The bonus still applies after humanity loss occurs, however.
#7 deadsquidwalking Jan 06, 2008 19:39:55	Impressive :D I particularly like how loss of Harmony causes the Universe to reject you (I already have visions of Lovecraftian nasties dancing in my head). Outta curosity, does a loss of harmony levy strange weaknesses on characters, like fey blooded creatures gaining an allergy to iron and demonic beings developing an abhorrence of all things religious?
#8 readyrodent Jan 08, 2008 23:14:30	Critical Hits Taken from the new Dragon article, which was a "holy that's cool!" A critical roll, such as a natural 20 on a club, which usually deals 1d6 +str, instead of confirming the hit, then doing 2d6 +(2 x str), it just deals maximum damage, or just 6 +str, no confirm needed. Expanded crit ranges are the same, and extra-damage ranges like x3 or x4 are halved, then applied to the maximized total. So, on a battleaxe that usually does 1d8+3, for instance, instead it does 8+3 * 1.5, or 16. Likewise, a scythe at the same bonus would do 22, or 8+3 * 2. Some of this stuff is like, dang, why didn't I think of that? That's simple to use, AND elegant! I kind of like this system too. Not for D&D, where the players are too attached to double or triple damage to go for it, but since I've never used any sort of critical hit system in modern, I want to give it a try. Gives the players a little reward for rolling well without inflicting ungodly damage on their foes and ruining planned combats. As for the expanded crit damage ranges though, my thought was that normal (x2) ranges just do max weapon damage (plus str and other misc bonuses), and x3 or x4 just adds an extra 1d4 or 2d4 damage, respectively, on a critical hit. Again, a little bonus, but nothing unbalancing. Oh, and monsters and npcs get the same crit bonuses PCs get :P
#9 Dfranco83 Mar 19, 2008 10:21:09	I hope you don't mind if other users can submit other rules for review. I was thinking about the ability scores and level adjustments: Taking the level adjustments down by one: Just making extra hit die concide with each level of adjustment so the challenge rating and ecl are the same. Giving the standard pc races the 4e racial bonuses (+2 selected stats) that was mentioned in the various 4e articles and at DDXP
#10 j0lt Mar 26, 2008 0:43:11	Meanwhile, this article was posted. Inspired the following, which has been added above: Critical Hits Taken from the new Dragon article, which was a "holy that's cool!" A critical roll, such as a natural 20 on a club, which usually deals 1d6 +str, instead of confirming the hit, then doing 2d6 +(2 x str), it just deals maximum damage, or just 6 +str, no confirm needed. Expanded crit ranges are the same, and extra-damage ranges like x3 or x4 are halved, then applied to the maximized total. So, on a battleaxe that usually does 1d8+3, for instance, instead it does 8+3 * 1.5, or 16. Likewise, a scythe at the same bonus would do 22, or 8+3 * 2. Some of this stuff is like, dang, why didn't I think of that? That's simple to use, AND elegant! ... That's beautiful!
#11 eldermount Mar 27, 2008 18:07:59	Meanwhile, this article was posted. Inspired the following, which has been added above: Critical Hits Taken from the new Dragon article, which was a "holy that's cool!" A critical roll, such as a natural 20 on a club, which usually deals 1d6 +str, instead of confirming the hit, then doing 2d6 +(2 x str), it just deals maximum damage, or just 6 +str, no confirm needed. That was a common houserule back in the days of 1st edition D&D. I didn't like it because Criticals didn't seem that critical unless you were using something like the two handed sword on a large creature (which did 3d6 damage) When you ran into something that was supposed to be difficult to hit (i.e. needed a 20 to hit) it didn't seem right that every time you did manage to hit it, you automatically did max damage. I guess our group doesn't have problems with the confirmation rolls because it just seemed to be a different explanation of the houserule we were using for critical hits when we were playing 2nd edition. Every roll of "20" allowed an extra attack (thus requiring an extra roll.) To each his own, however. If this works for you, have at it. ;)
#12 leonidus Mar 27, 2008 21:52:33	I hope you don't mind if other users can submit other rules for review. I was thinking about the ability scores and level adjustments: Taking the level adjustments down by one: Just making extra hit die concide with each level of adjustment so the challenge rating and ecl are the same. Giving the standard pc races the 4e racial bonuses (+2 selected stats) that was mentioned in the various 4e articles and at DDXP Well, that would be good, except with my world's system, I don't actually use any of the standard races, or, in fact, any races beyond human. Everything that is 'another race' is actually a template, or series of trade-off traits, on the basic human.

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

leonidus

Dec 29, 2007 17:03:06

New stuff in red!

I like some of what I see in 4e, some stuff I'm not sure about, but I'll leave that to when I pick up the books in June. (my main beef is with the unified progression. I liked the difference in numbers, especially Modern's smaller variations in save types, so unless they just replicate it by saying "this class gets +2 attack/save/etc" as class features, it's going to wind up looking pretty similar. Meh.)

For now, I have some changes for the d20 modern game I'm running that I want to play out. Some of it is 4e-inspired, other parts are just, this sounds damned cool for a mechanic. I'll leave out my setting-specific junk, just because I haven't nailed all that down yet. (mostly it's my magic system and non-human races, not as much impact on general combat mechanics.)

The general idea is to turn more mechanics into (active) attack vs. (passive) defense. (Comparing rolls gives the same odds, but with one fixed, the results are more palpable.) More use of the save elsewhere in the system mechanics, to cover more options. (in d20 modern, especially, without spells or special abilities to consider, Will seems to be a lot less used.)

Swift & Immediate Actions
I personally love these. The immediate action gets a little harder to track, but it's more a matter of familiarity. Not much use of these, but I can picture some as it goes. I know I'll be using them in spells a lot.

I'm not going to mess with the skills list in general, I don't want to dive into that pile just yet. I do have plans for a few specific changes, tho.

Saves
Saves becomes defenses, much as in SWSE. (usual save bonus + 10 as a defense score) Touch score is rolled into Reflex Defense, and Grapple's size mod is added to Fort defense. (think about it, a bigger creature has a more substantial immune system for poisons, and this expands fort to include stability and 'physicality' functions rather smoothly.)

Grapple, Bull Rush, Trip
With Fort defense eating grapple, the special attacks become a more unified mechanic. If you attack with an untrained weapon-type, you threaten an AoO, but the rest doesn't provoke. The idea here is it's easy to start, but also easy to escape. Denial of start would become a function of a feat, rather than neccesary from the core. See feats for my idea about extra material to cover this.

To bull rush, make a charging attack vs. fort. (stability bonus adds to fort) They move 5 feet, +5 feet for every 5 points over defense, if you choose to move with.
To trip, make an armed attack vs. fort. (stability bonus adds to fort) If it hits, they fall.
To grapple, make an unarmed attack vs. fort. If it hits, they're held.

Once in grapple:
Melee vs. their fort to deal unarmed damage, move the grapple pile, or escape from grapple.
Melee vs. their fort to pin. Pinned defender then takes -4 on check to break pin, before they can subsequently break the grapple. No % chance to hit wrong target when attacking from outside the pin.
Dex check vs. their reflex to draw a weapon, which can then be used for a standard attack vs. fort next turn.

Lunge & Retreat
In addition to the usual full-round charge and withdraw, respectively, a player can perform a Lunge as a standard action, moving up to their regular speed and making an attack with the usual bonuses and penalties of a charge, and use a Retreat as a move action, at only single speed, provided each action is the only movement, including 5-ft steps, they make in the round. This leaves the other half of the action, the move or standard, respectively, for the use of other class features, special abilities, or spells.

(see feats entry below for related ideas)

Critical Hits
Taken from the new Dragon article, which was a "holy

that's cool!" A critical roll, such as a natural 20 on a club, which usually deals 1d6 +str, instead of confirming the hit, then doing 2d6 +(2 x str), it just deals maximum damage, or just 6 +str, no confirm needed. Expanded crit ranges are the same, and extra-damage ranges like x3 or x4 are halved, then applied to the maximized total. So, on a battleaxe that usually does 1d8+3, for instance, instead it does 8+3 * 1.5, or 16. Likewise, a scythe at the same bonus would do 22, or 8+3 * 2.

Some of this stuff is like, dang, why didn't I think of that? That's simple to use, AND elegant!

Handle Animal, Intimidate, Sense Motive
Skill check versus Will defense, with bonuses on Will defense for various situations, like the Handle Animal DCs.

Perception Score
Debating this one.. 10 + Spot and Listen totals, to replace the usual "Something *might* be up, make a spot/listen check, oh, no, never mind."

Feats
I've also got a selection of feats from D&D books I'm looking to include in the modern side.

List of Borrowed Feats:

Monster Manual
Awesome Blow
Flyby Attack
Hover
Improved Natural Armor
Improved Natural Attack
Multiattack
Multiweapon Fighting
Snatch
Wingover
Expanded Psionics Handbook
Cloak Dance
Mind Over Body
Open Minded (also in Complete Adventurer, as I recall)
Rapid Metabolism
Reckless Offense
Sidestep Charge
Stand Still
Complete Adventurer
Brutal Throw
Danger Sense
Deft Opportunist
Dual Strike
Extraordinary Concentration
Goad
Improved Diversion
Improved Flight
Leap Attack
Mobile Spellcasting
Power Throw
Complete Arcane
Dive For Cover: On attack vs. your Ref, force a reroll, but you become prone.
Complete Warrior
Dash
Elusive Target
Shock Trooper
Miniatures Handbook
Mage Slayer
Reckless Charge
Second Wind
Sidestep
Races of Destiny
Roofwalker
Races of the Wild
Aerial Reflexes
Improved Flight
Player's Handbook II
Bounding Assault
Combat Acrobat
Combat Cloak Expert
Einhander
Grenadier
Keen-Eared Scout
Lunging Strike
Shadow Striker
Tumbling Feint
Two-Weapon Pounce¹
Two-Weapon Rend
Vexing Flanker

¹ - Two-Weapon Pounce may ring some alarms in some people's heads, I plan on limiting excess natural attacks in my races, making them either replace weapon-hand attacks, or requiring a special action to use, rather than integrating them into a massive full-attack routine.

leonidus

Dec 29, 2007 21:07:27

This is getting to be for me as much a place to organize my thoughts as a post for public review and commentary, so here's my setting-specific material.

If I get more thought put into this all, I may post it up on my website. (badly in need of updates, but what can you do when time is short?)

I use the standard d20 representations for natural animals, but all of my monsters have my own unique spin, and use my own build-up.

Setting-Specific Rules & Info
Part of this is actually inspired by the morality and derangement system out of World of Darkness. I should explain that in my game world, anyone can use magic, but the more you do, the more it changes you. Early tribes of humans effectively mutated themselves into the different mythological races, spread out. Then, in the face of the ever-present hordes of humanity who hunted them down, hid themselves by turning human again, their mutations recessively hidden but still present in genetic code. In modern day, anyone who uses magic, and happens to have these recessive traits, re-awakens them as they use magic, turning into elves, ogres, demons, etc.

Humanity & Harmony
These scores run from 1 to 10. Players start at 10 in each. The character sheet has a line for each number, from 10 to 1, descending. The total score is used as an attack vs. the character's own will defense. If it hits, they lose a point, and gain a mutation or a deviation. More on this later.

Humanity represents the character's differences from human norm. Generaly, this takes the form of physical traits, such as ability mods, and racial special abilities.

Harmony represents the character's synchronicity with the natural world. Depending on personal actions, some things will cause a person to break from the natural flow, bending reality around them in some way, making them feel alien and unsettling. Demons/fiends and aberrations have a lower harmony score, as do powerful fey, angelic beings, and some gods. The modifications here are more along the line of special psionic/innate abilities, generally things which outright break the laws of reality, like inhuman strength without apparent mass, generating energy fields, telekinesis, turning one thing into something else chemically unrelated, inherent 'superhero' flight abilities, etc.

Regular magic in my world doesn't work like that, it generally follows natural laws of physics, as long as one considers that the system is never perfectly closed, the extra energy/matter/etc always comes from somewhere. (As it happens, entropy is an illusion, the energy is never gone, just beyond observation.) A strength spell would make you physically grow bigger and stronger, TK generally creates an invisible force to do the work, and magical flight is more about controlling wind and air on a minor scale. Minor differences, but it creates the flavor I'm going for.

(more to come, as I think of it.)

deadsquidwalking

Jan 03, 2008 21:28:41

Well, your 4e rules seem solid enough though I'm not sure about your Humanity/Harmony rules; is there any real mechanical benefit for having a high Humanity/Harmony score (after all, ya gotta have SOME incentive to stay human :P )?

leonidus

Jan 04, 2008 1:22:43

Thank for replying, after a hundred-some views, I was worried NOBODY was going to say anything. My next game session is tomorrow, and I wanted some opinions before I shoved this stuff down my players' throats baselessly.

On the scores... Do I? Really? Well, I guess. The thing is, I have considered inverting the scale, but humanity/harmony as terms flow a lot better, I like them better than other terms I've looked up. (I'm open to suggestions..)

I'm open to ideas. For one, I'm considering a penalty to social skills, but that doesn't really impact fighter characters and conversely severely hurts social ones. The other is something approximating Level Adjustment without being that right out, maybe a one-time XP buy-off. (your next XX experience is docked for that point of Humanity you lost..) Kinda like the Necropolitan template..

There's also that I'm considering using an internal drawback in each mutation/deviation, to balance the pure gain of each one. You gain + to this, but - to that. You gain a +2 to Strength, but suffer a -2 on skills requiring fine manipulation. Or something. I don't want a direct +2 str/-2 dex or anything, these are supposed to add up over time, but not be insurmountable difficulties. Some of the more mechanical ones could probably even be bought off with feats. (or concepts that are more powerful, broken down into a cheaper version and then a feat which enhances it to the full concept.)

Anyhoo... Thanks for the commentary. Please, everybody, let me know what you think! I have a thick skin, I can take criticism without tears. (I won't accept it blindly, I've got a pretty good sense when things just go out the window, but all the same, I'll keep it in mind.)

leonidus

Jan 05, 2008 2:23:41

Well, session was shelved, only one player showed, and the other main player, who brings his two buddies, couldn't come.

Meanwhile, this article was posted. Inspired the following, which has been added above:

Critical Hits
Taken from the new Dragon article, which was a "holy

leonidus

Jan 05, 2008 19:38:41

Both Humanity and Harmony are fluid. They come and go under special circumstances. Acts of great emotion, like anger, hatred, desperation, or love, they open the gateway, causing the first awakening, and influence the path one's humanity mutations take, towards the demonic, elemental, fey, or bestial paths.

When you experiences the first awakening, even if it's not obvious, you're changed forever. You can never go back, in more ways than one. Not only do you experience physical changes, but you've just become a candle in a field of shadows. There are beings, demons, wraiths, and spirits, which can see that light, and are drawn to it, attempting to influence you. Most of them can feed on the light, passively, but some, such as wraiths, try to consume the source itself, your soul. The farther you progress along in power, the more your light shines, making you a target.

When you do things which match the goals, feel, and emotions of a path, you gain a rank along that path. It's almost like a pact, except these goals can be achieved without your knowledge. In fact, some of these are actual pacts, such as the pacts between tribal shaman priests, and the animal spirits, creating werecreatures. For instance, if you act out in rage and hatred, you have just committed a demonic act, and will gain demonic features. Now, some characters have an established heritage, and regardless of the cause of the act, they will first gain the features of that heritage before anything else. (Generally.)

On the other hand, acts which are directly opposed to the paths you've already gained, such as choices to do something else, rather than act as has gained you power. To continue the example, if you make a choice of love and sympathy, in the face of a chance to act out that demonic hatred or be destructive, you will lose those mutations. (To maintain demonic power, one must be angry, hurtful, destructive. That's not to say purely evil, the demonic philosophy is chaotic, survival-of-the-fittest.) Even though you've lost the mutations, however, that doesn't mean the're erased from your soul, they're still written, and become new default racial traits, which would likewise be passed to your descendants. Only extreme circumstances will allow you to erase that path, like overwhelming acts which serve another path, after a time, those traits of the same level will overwrite your normal ones.

The other side to this is that this is a dropping scale for a reason. While you can't ever get back to a full 10, it's also possible to go too far. When your score reaches 0, you have truly lost touch with your humanity, or become dissonant in the harmony of the world. Loss of humanity can cause your mind to degrade, driving you either insane, feral, possibly even losing your corporeal body and becoming a spirit. (in some cultures, this is an honor, but what PC wants to kill themselves in effectively a magic overdose?) Loss of all harmony is even worse, you become so unnatural that the very universe rejects you, and you disappear altogether. (Some say you are dispersed to the far corners of the galaxy, others say you shift to a different plane of existence. Who's to say? Nobody's ever come back, that we know of.)

All magics are tied to these paths of humanity. Certain schools are variable, but most are linked to one path or another. Any use of magic is therefore an act along some path or another. Even before your awakening, ritual spells allow you to use magic without having tapped your heritage; indeed, normal humans, who lack any predisposed bloodline, can use magic with less fear of transformation.

Untainted Bloodline
You never had any unusual ancestors. What a pity.
Prerequisites: Humanity 10
Benefit: You gain a +4 bonus your Will defense when risking Humanity loss.
Special: This feat can only be taken at Humanity 10. The bonus still applies after humanity loss occurs, however.

deadsquidwalking

Jan 06, 2008 19:39:55

Impressive :D I particularly like how loss of Harmony causes the Universe to reject you (I already have visions of Lovecraftian nasties dancing in my head). Outta curosity, does a loss of harmony levy strange weaknesses on characters, like fey blooded creatures gaining an allergy to iron and demonic beings developing an abhorrence of all things religious?

readyrodent

Jan 08, 2008 23:14:30

Critical Hits
Taken from the new Dragon article, which was a "holy that's cool!" A critical roll, such as a natural 20 on a club, which usually deals 1d6 +str, instead of confirming the hit, then doing 2d6 +(2 x str), it just deals maximum damage, or just 6 +str, no confirm needed. Expanded crit ranges are the same, and extra-damage ranges like x3 or x4 are halved, then applied to the maximized total. So, on a battleaxe that usually does 1d8+3, for instance, instead it does 8+3 * 1.5, or 16. Likewise, a scythe at the same bonus would do 22, or 8+3 * 2.

Some of this stuff is like, dang, why didn't I think of that? That's simple to use, AND elegant!

I kind of like this system too. Not for D&D, where the players are too attached to double or triple damage to go for it, but since I've never used any sort of critical hit system in modern, I want to give it a try. Gives the players a little reward for rolling well without inflicting ungodly damage on their foes and ruining planned combats.

As for the expanded crit damage ranges though, my thought was that normal (x2) ranges just do max weapon damage (plus str and other misc bonuses), and x3 or x4 just adds an extra 1d4 or 2d4 damage, respectively, on a critical hit. Again, a little bonus, but nothing unbalancing.

Oh, and monsters and npcs get the same crit bonuses PCs get :P

Dfranco83

Mar 19, 2008 10:21:09

I hope you don't mind if other users can submit other rules for review.

I was thinking about the ability scores and level adjustments:

Taking the level adjustments down by one: Just making extra hit die concide with each level of adjustment so the challenge rating and ecl are the same.

Giving the standard pc races the 4e racial bonuses (+2 selected stats) that was mentioned in the various 4e articles and at DDXP

#10

j0lt

Mar 26, 2008 0:43:11

Meanwhile, this article was posted. Inspired the following, which has been added above:

Critical Hits
Taken from the new Dragon article, which was a "holy that's cool!" A critical roll, such as a natural 20 on a club, which usually deals 1d6 +str, instead of confirming the hit, then doing 2d6 +(2 x str), it just deals maximum damage, or just 6 +str, no confirm needed. Expanded crit ranges are the same, and extra-damage ranges like x3 or x4 are halved, then applied to the maximized total. So, on a battleaxe that usually does 1d8+3, for instance, instead it does 8+3 * 1.5, or 16. Likewise, a scythe at the same bonus would do 22, or 8+3 * 2.

Some of this stuff is like, dang, why didn't I think of that? That's simple to use, AND elegant!

...
That's beautiful!

#11

eldermount

Mar 27, 2008 18:07:59

Meanwhile, this article was posted. Inspired the following, which has been added above:

Critical Hits
Taken from the new Dragon article, which was a "holy that's cool!" A critical roll, such as a natural 20 on a club, which usually deals 1d6 +str, instead of confirming the hit, then doing 2d6 +(2 x str), it just deals maximum damage, or just 6 +str, no confirm needed.

That was a common houserule back in the days of 1st edition D&D. I didn't like it because

Criticals didn't seem that critical unless you were using something like the two handed sword on a large creature (which did 3d6 damage)
When you ran into something that was supposed to be difficult to hit (i.e. needed a 20 to hit) it didn't seem right that every time you did manage to hit it, you automatically did max damage.

I guess our group doesn't have problems with the confirmation rolls because it just seemed to be a different explanation of the houserule we were using for critical hits when we were playing 2nd edition. Every roll of "20" allowed an extra attack (thus requiring an extra roll.)

To each his own, however. If this works for you, have at it. ;)

#12

leonidus

Mar 27, 2008 21:52:33

I hope you don't mind if other users can submit other rules for review.

I was thinking about the ability scores and level adjustments:

Taking the level adjustments down by one: Just making extra hit die concide with each level of adjustment so the challenge rating and ecl are the same.

Giving the standard pc races the 4e racial bonuses (+2 selected stats) that was mentioned in the various 4e articles and at DDXP

Well, that would be good, except with my world's system, I don't actually use any of the standard races, or, in fact, any races beyond human. Everything that is 'another race' is actually a template, or series of trade-off traits, on the basic human.