I'm not passing out any "inside info" here, but thought you guys might be interested to know there's been a 4e Gamma World product spotted on Amazon.
community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...
It could very well be a one time product. Or a "testing the waters" thing. I don't know.
Wizards of the Coast has just announced (via Twitter) that a new edition of Gamma World will be published in October 2010. 
The following details were released:
- The Gamma World rule book will be 160 pages and include everything you need to play, covering character creation through GM advice.
- The rules will be strongly rooted in the 4e Dungeons & Dragons game mechanics.
- The rule book will include 30 different monsters, including badders and yarns.
- The rule book will include an adventure with 10 encounters, providing enough experience to raise character levels by 2.
- The game will incorporate a card component. 40 tech cards and 40 mutation cards will be included.
- Booster packs of random tech and mutation cards will be available for purchase separately.
- The rule book will be supported with a boxed set release, Famine in Fargo. This adventure will include 16 encounters, token sheets, poster maps, and 10 additional GM cards. Oh, and mutant chickens... can't forget the mutant chickens.
- Booster packs of random tech and mutation cards will be available for purchase separately.
Yup, I'm out.
- Booster packs of random tech and mutation cards will be available for purchase separately.
Yup, I'm out.
Normally this would have been an automatic buy for me. I hate boosters for soooo many reasons. I'm out too.
But perhaps I'm misunderstanding the card system. Is this short-hand versions of abilities that are printed in full in the book, or are these things you have access to only by virtue of chasing after random decks? If it's that second one, then I am not enthusiastic.
Booster packs of random tech and mutation cards will be available for purchase separately.
Pen-&-paper games were the great equalizier of hobbyists from different economic levels. I stopped playing CCG's and CMG's because all the best cards/pieces went to the people who could afford to buy the most boosters. I guess all the rich boys will get the best toys in pen-&-paper games from now on too. If this gets to be a trend, WotC can count me out of all their products that follow it. I'm not gonna spend my limited discretionary income on a game so I can be at the bottom of the totem pole because I don't have more discretionary income.Please note; this rant is about how the design of certain hobbies puts those with less to spend at the bottom. It is not an inditement of people with extra spending money using it on a hobby they love.
Random cards not so much. (BAD WIZARDS BAD DID YOU NOT LEARN FROM YOUR DAMN ALMOST TANKED BEFORE YOU CHANGED MINI LINE?!!!)
Wow
who coulda seen that coming
Jan 16, 2009
.....
If we use Modern-ish HP, and have Modern-ish powers that do Modern-ish damages...
it will be pretty Modern-like in a game using the 4e Powers (precursor to D&D 5e Trading Card Only Game?) system.
If you just keep buyin paks you'll get that RARE "DTap" card for your gunslinger.
where you can get more classes/feats/skill/spells/monsters by buying more books
... but in this GW type system (dd5 pre-beta marketability study
), you just dont know before hand what additional classes/feats/skills/spells/(mutations) you get in the unbound & bagged mini expansion-book page sheets (aka CARDS).
Back in the day, I knew DeepwoodSniper PrC existed,
but I couldnt play one cause we didnt buy the DD3x booster pak (aka SplatBook) that had that class in it. Just as we cant play a Mutation/Spell/Feat card if we dont buy GW Random Splats (card paks)... however, unlike having to buy a whole Splat for just one D&D PrC, I bet I will be able to get online and buy second-market individual cards to get that Uncommon/Rare GW card without buyng hundreds of paks.
Here is the problem:
This WILL sell well to the 4e masses that buy buy buy anything woc makes,
which will embolden WoC to run wide open throttle toward the dd5 card game.
Folks that bought more than 3 books to play D&D
shouldnt be complaining about GW (5e test) having the option to buy more features beyond the SINGLE playable & fun crb.
WoC sells fish,
fish being minis and cards,
and it is bad business to teach gamers to fish (with complete CRBs)
rather than to have them keep buying more & more fishies (aka cards).
I guess WoC is just responding to the massive throngs of GW forum guys begging/screaming for a new release / product / any-attention-at-all .... unlike Modern
Its no different from getting a complete playable & fun game in the PH & DMG,
where you can get more classes/feats/skill/spells/monsters by buying more books
... but in this GW type system (dd5 pre-beta marketability study ),
you just dont know before hand what additional classes/feats/skills/spells/(mutations) you get in the unbound & bagged mini expansion-book page sheets (aka CARDS).
Back in the day, I knew DeepwoodSniper PrC existed,
but I couldnt play one cause we didnt buy the DD3x booster pak (aka SplatBook) that had that class in it. Just as we cant play a Mutation/Spell/Feat card if we dont buy GW Random Splats (card paks)... however, unlike having to buy a whole Splat for just one D&D PrC, I bet I will be able to get online and buy second-market individual cards to get that Uncommon/Rare GW card without buyng hundreds of paks.
Here is the problem:
This WILL sell well to the 4e masses that buy buy buy anything woc makes,
which will embolden WoC to run wide open throttle toward the dd5 card game.
Folks that bought more than 3 books to play D&D
shouldnt be complaining about GW (5e test) having the option to buy more features beyond the SINGLE playable & fun crb.
WoC sells fish,
fish being minis and cards,
and it is bad business to teach gamers to fish (with complete CRBs)
rather than to have them keep buying more & more fishies (aka cards).
I guess WoC is just responding to the massive throngs of GW forum guys begging/screaming for a new release / product / any-attention-at-all .... unlike Modern
Well, I play 4E and do not buy everything WoTC puts out. I didn't do it with 3.5, 2 or OE. Also, equating a "booster pack" with a "book" is incorrect. Books with random pages would be closer to the mark...LOL
But I do get your point. It obvious that the business model adopted with SAGA has worked very well. It has been extended to D&D. GW with booster packs is a test product. If it works you can bet the next D&D will have them also. I suspect RPG booster packs will the the anchilles' heel for WoTC. I will be off the band wagon for the first time since christmas 1980.
As for GW it makes sens with the marketing strategy WoTC has adopted in the recent years. Promote recognisable brands only. You never know if GW works we could see Gang Buster, Boothill, Top secret and Star Frontiers relive...
Hopefully they don't go to the Random Booster procedure. They think they have it bad now with the piracy, you haven't seen anything yet.
-Sarena
Here is the problem:
This WILL sell well to the 4e masses that buy buy buy anything woc makes,
which will embolden WoC to run wide open throttle toward the dd5 card game.
I play 4e. I buy very little of what WotC sells. Let's keep the irrational system hate out of this. Like most of the rest of you, I was interested until I saw the bit about the booster packs. No thanks.
And if WotC ever does make D&D into a partial CCG, yeah I'll pass on that too. I don't buy their minis for similar reasons (well that and the general quality of their minis).
I'm a big fan of just sticking to the basics so far as books go. I may have gone way off the handle for d20m (I'm only missing a couple books, Critical Locations being one of them) but my D&D 3.5 collection is at 4 books (PHB, MM, DMG, UA) and can remain at 4 books for all I care.
The concept of buying card packs to improve/facilitate game play is a little difficult to wrap my head around. I suppose it's little different than adding more books, but... Books just seems to make more sense than cards.
That having been said, I'm not the biggest fan of 4e, so this doesn't really interest me. I am, however, extremely iffy on the whole "collectable card" system being added to a PnP RPG system as a core componant.
I mean, i know that they are just testing a new concept they want to use on D&D in a different brand, like they did with the modern and the star wars RPGs. But isn't the very concept of making a TCRPG just ridiculous?
It already exists and it's called miniatures! They are DOWNGRADING miniatures from tiny figures into cards!
I can only but imagine what the meeting went like:
Guy1: We need to increase our D&D sales, anyone has any ideas?
Guy2: well, magic sells well, how about we make D&D more like magic?
Guy3: yeah, we sell lots of booster packs every fiscal year.
Guy2: That's it! We will make books and instead of selling them, we will just scatter the pages through a booster pack system! It will be like the books are the preconstructed decks and they will have to buy cards in order to make the books any good!
Guy1&Guy3: THAT'S GENIUS!!
My god, and i thought giant cards on magic was ridiculous....
Its pretty obvious that this random card booster thing is another push in the "we want constant cashflow" direction. Fueled by purely corporate reasons and not creative ones. Hasbro has likely been chomping at the bit to get WotC's RPG customers to dole out to them the same amount of cash the CCG customers do, and this is just their next attempt.
Also I disagree with backstabbist's "splatbook = boosterpack" analogy, for a number of reasons. They're not even similar at all. For one thing splatbooks not required in any capacity, nor do you have to constantly buy "complete warrior" over and over again until you finally get the copy of the one feat you wanted for your Mounted Paladin deck. (Though, given recent trends, it wouldn't surprise me if that WAS the future of D&D)
I have the following to say about this:
I don't remember that at all. What generation of 2nd Ed was that?
I recall seeing collectible character cards for Ravenloft. They were NPC's that can be found in the Ravenloft world. I was never that interested in cards though, so I only saw the one.
In the interest of fairness, I seem to recall 2nd edition having random packs of collectible cards well before WotC ever existed. A buddy had the complete set.
And they were a huge failure.
In the interest of fairness, I seem to recall 2nd edition having random packs of collectible cards well before WotC ever existed. A buddy had the complete set.
I don't believe they had spells/magic items where the rules were not available anywhere else. I don't mind them selling mutation cards. What would annoy me is if some mutations are only available on cards and I need to purchase random packs to hopefully get the cards.
- The game will incorporate a card component. 40 tech cards and 40 mutation cards will be included.
- Booster packs of random tech and mutation cards will be available for purchase separately.
Kinda says right there that you already get cards for 40 mutations,
I doubt they put just 40 out of XXX book mutations in the box... it all but spells out that you start with 40 MutationCards and then have to play the Random Booster Buying game: All it takes is a whole lotta IRL money to win
Otherwise,
whats the point of random pack of cards you already can play those Mutes from the book?
In Modern terms, we are back to having to buy Booster after Booster to try to get the rare DoubleTap card so we can write what that card says on our character sheet.... or just write it on the sheet from the one CRB we buy and never send Hasbro another dime.
They dont want to publish a book, you see BoosterPaks following a novel?
They want a revenue STREAM of continued buying of the same paks in hopes of winning the BoosterpakLotto and hitting the LaserbeamEyes (or Burstfire) jackpot card that makes the $700 you spent on all those "DiscoloredHair" or "Insightful" card in the loser packs worth the wasted money
.... or did you really intend to buy DiscoloredHair 82 times?
Why sell the customer the card they want once,
when you can instead sell them one they DONT want 82 times
If they want a steady revenue stream, they should put out a good gamer's magazine and/or consistently updated website and then either charge for it or plaster it in geek-related ads. They could also produce adventures on a month-by-month basis or other kinds of books that provide us with content that's within the existing rules rather than creating new rules (i.e., new feats, new spells, new classes, etc.). What you want is ever-expanding piles of useful villains, cities, buildings, traps, weapons, etc., but without the power creep, so you have to pick a few specific elements of the game and lock them down. There's still loads and loads of stuff you could put out every month.
Given the economy and the unfortunate realities of corporate drive for profit (i.e., lowest effort possible for highest return), I suspect that they resist this kind of approach because it would require constantly paying creative people for their labour rather than printing off the random batches of cards over and over again. Sad, really. Viva third-party, open gaming!
Why sell the customer the card they want once,
when you can instead sell them one they DONT want 82 times
I must also point out that booster packs are a very bad model in terms of ecology. How many square miles of trees have been wasted to print CCG common/uncommon cards that immediatly end up in the trash? When you compare with the life span of RPG books there is no debate.
This anti-corporate message brought to you by 14 years of Canadian university education!
This anti-corporate message brought to you by 14 years of Canadian university education!
Why didn't you buy the book on saving the planet? You would a "saved" alote of money in tuition fees.
(I know and respect that you were mostly being a smart-ass, but I felt like giving you the whole answer.)
The only way I know of to guarantee that you get the rare cards you want is to buy the cases of booster packs. I used to be friends with someone who got his father into MtG. His father had considerable disposable income and would buy 4 cases of boosters each time a new release dropped; so he could be assured to have 4 of each of the rare cards when he built his deck. Last I checked, the booster cases were $250. That means he was blowing a solid grand on cards every time a set dropped. He'd make some of that back selling the extra uncommons, or trading loads of them for rares and e-baying those; but that's still a crapload of dough.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=umDr0mPuyQc
I think the collective response can be summed up with
www.youtube.com/watch?v=umDr0mPuyQc
You'd think so. When I tried posting that collectible randomized cards are a bad idea, and that they would be ported into WotC other games if they proved successful in GW; and that most people I know wouldn't buy that product if it included such cards, I was actually accused of trying to threaten and intimidate WotC, with further implications that my opinions made me anti-diversity and anti-freedom.
I wish I had an appropriat joke to put here, but I think the accusations themselves are pathetic enough on their own.
Its that kind of rabid brand loyalty that drove me to post on this section exclusively, and keeps me from even bothering with video game forums.
I'm just saying, going somewhere else would be nice.
And Mecha Pilot, I agree, the posters in that thread are being really weird. For what its worth, I posted a post positioning myself as aligned with your stance. I really don't understand how anyone can defend a position antithetical to your own in that thread... but whatever. I guess it takes all kinds.
And Mecha Pilot, I agree, the posters in that thread are being really weird. For what its worth, I posted a post positioning myself as aligned with your stance. I really don't understand how anyone can defend a position antithetical to your own in that thread... but whatever. I guess it takes all kinds.
LOL... I've read a few 4E threads on this (Modern) forum that turn sour in the last year. Seems some have a guardian complex when it come to their favorite version of the game (published or not).
For the record I'm going the the D&D thread to align myself with Mecha.
Hey guys. Help me understand this a bit. I view the cards as another add on that you don't need to play the game, so maybe that's my problem. Playing Gamma World without buying booster packs seems to be the same as playing D&D without ever getting a DDI subscription. Both of these things:
- Are not needed to play the game
- Are not needed to enjoy the game
- Cost extra money above and beyond the materials you NEED to play
- Include some kind of repeat purchase model
The biggest difference here of course is in the basic repeat purchase model. DDI has new content it publishes every month so you can purchase from one month to the next, or purchase a month's subscription when you hear about something you like. Gamma World has the random booster model, which allows you to buy a pack or two at a low price, most likely get something fun, and hopefully get something cool. If you're the kind of person that this appeals to, awesome, pick up a few packs and have fun cracking them and finding what you get. If it's not your bag, then don't ever pick up a booster. I know for me, it doesn't matter if Joe Bob in his other Gamma World game that I don't play in uses some neat mutations that I don't have. I'm not playing his game, and I may not have the same motivations for fun that he has.
On to some more hypotheticals. If player decks end up being seperate for each player, and there's no limit to the amount of rare vs not rare cards that you can put into it, I still feel this won't be a problem for the random booster model. Booster buying player buys some boosters, finds some rares he likes and finds others he doesn't. From the play through we had with Rich, this seems likely, as some mutant powers help with movement, some with tanking, some with damage, etc. So the player is focused on getting some kind of damage or attack mutations and shares the movement, defender, and all the other ones with his group, including rares that he's not interested in for his deck. Again, table wins. This is not a competitive game so I guess I'm confused by people thinking that the random card model changes that.
I also want to say that this isn't me trying to force my opinion down you throat. I'm just trying to put to voice (errr, word processor) this other side of the discussion. While other people are saying similar things, I wanted to lend my experience to what's out there . If you guys can explain to me how this is bad for people who don't want to buy the boosters - please continue to do so! I need to make sure that everyone else in the company is hearing what the different opinions are and how strongly people are behind them, and it will go over much better if I can actually quantify exactly what makes the boosters bad for the people who don't want to buy them.
One last thing! Assuming Gamma World comes out and has the random booster model, I hear a few people saying they're going to boycott the game entirely. If I can offer a different suggestion for how you can vote with your wallet: When GW comes out, if you love it but hate the boosters..... don't ever buy a booster. The base game will come with non-randomized power cards and the expansions might as well (not entirely sure on that last one, just a speculation). If we see that Gamma World is selling but the boosters aren't, I'm relatively certain we'd stop producing the boosters and focus on the boxed product.
Good lord... it's worse than i imagined. *single tear rolls over his cheek* I hope the people behind this descition burn in heck for all of eternity.
I mean, a pen and paper rpg played with cards and a deck? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! I don't want to play with lame-o decks and cards, that's not pen and paper roleplaying! How do you design a character with a deck? how?!
ARGH! I'm even more unhappy now.
The expression of Suk=f(GW), where f(x)=Booster(x)
has no upper bound... thats right: Boundless Sukitude
I cant believe they are envoking the name of 4e in the game,
where 4e is the end all mother of all AGB,
and then add to that the individual player power creep of some folks buying cards while others at the table dont.
And in what crack smoking halucination of gaming
does the game rely on a bunch of players sharing the cards in the booster they bought.
How do you design a character with a deck? how?!
First off, you remove the random HP and replace that with a fixed HP, so you dont have to write that down. When you game, you get that many chits in your life pile, and as you take damage or play a HealingSurge card you lose or regain chits.
Your class is simply the ratios of which cards you can have in your deck:
Leader is alowed more heal power cards than hurt power cards
Controller is allowed more utility power cards
Striker is alowed more attack power cards
etc
Some cards you can tap once and discard,
other powercards you can untap at the end of a particular encounter,
while other powercards stay in play and untap your next turn.
So char design is a matter of chosing which power cards, spell cards, equipment cards etc
to put in your deck. You can start pay with your equipment cards, then as you play you just slap down and tap the Spell/Utility/Martial power cards on your Init, and untap them by NextTurn/Encounter/Discard
Wait,
did I just channel the DD5 TCG dev team?
That's the problem here, it's like offering me a bicycle and insisting it's a truck. It doesn't work
Which is odd, cause Magic type games make a lot of money for hasbro
while GamaWorld has brought in how much in the past 3 years?
But at least now we know what to call it
Magic: The Gamma'ing
Where game balance is the highest priority... after profittingf off booster pack sales of course.
Each character is absolutely balanced to all others... unless they buy more boosters... you better go buy some more boosters to make sure they dont OutBooster you... I pity da foo that loses the Booster Arms Race
Anyway, i will just ignore it's existance and hope it goes away.
My real fear is that Wizards loves, and i mean LOVES, adding successful concepts from past games onto their next edition of D&D. Which would mean that, if this succeeds, D&D as we know it WILL die.
I like D&D...
I always knew it would be my turn to become a grognard eventually. If they start releasing D&D rules via collectible booster card packs it will just mean my turn will come sooner rather than later...
I don't wanna be an old fogey!! XD
Honestly, there are plenty of other systems out there that are easier to homebrew with. Plus, I could always go back to Palladium. After I quit AD&D, Palladium Books earned almost 5 grand in revenues from me over a decade. I got rid of most of those games, but I had the foresight to hold on to my Nightbane books just in case. We'll see what time reveals.
I don't really know any other game systems that are releasing a game I really want to play. I hate Shadowrun. Exalted looks cool, but I like 4e more. World of Darkness is neat, but I hate the fact that the various races are not balanced against each other (because its not really designed to be played as an multi-race game). I find GURPS to be a little too simulationist. I don't know... e20 might fill a niche for me, maybe.
I really don't think its a big deal either way though. I could play 4e and Saga for the rest of my life and be happy. I don't think I really need any new games.
And this is all, of course, pessimistically assuming the worst. They might reevaluate the community response to Gamma World and decide to change directions. Or Gamma World might just fail miserably, and they will decide that their testbed for CCG material in D&D suggests that its a bad idea...
Here is the problem:
This WILL sell well to the 4e masses that buy buy buy anything woc makes,
which will embolden WoC to run wide open throttle toward the dd5 card game.
Are there rabid masses that will buy it, and abuse anyone that dont worship it?
I believe MP has already gotten gnashed at by just those rabid fans
And I really love the company man shilling how there is nothing wrong with playing a crb character while your pals have as many Booster superpowers as they are willing to cough up cash for.
Heck, if he says there nothing wrong with that then we are all supposed to toe that line... right?
Fighting in a basement offers a lot of difficulties.
Number one being, you're fighting in a basement! ----IngloriousB's
Booster Pack games offer a lot of negative aspects.
Number one being, its a Booster Pack game.
Whatever thought the original game had toward balance
is blown to heck... no, its orders of magnitude beyond blown to heck,
when some players can buy more equality than others.
I will post the letter I write to him her,along with his reponse if any. So,if you wish for me to put anything in the lttter let me know and i'll see what I can do.
I also think your "red-headed step child" analogy is an interesting one because it implies that we're upset at the lack of attention from a parental figure. If you'll allow me, as someone who's been around here a good while now, I think it's time we just moved out of our parents' basement and got on with our lives. d20 Modern does live on in various third-party publishing houses. There's Green Ronin and True 20 and RPG Objects. No shortage of source material. Daddy's not going to love us, no matter what we do, so screw Daddy. Let's move on.
I feel like we're screaming into an empty room at this point.
I also think your "red-headed step child" analogy is an interesting one because it implies that we're upset at the lack of attention from a parental figure. If you'll allow me, as someone who's been around here a good while now, I think it's time we just moved out of our parents' basement and got on with our lives. d20 Modern does live on in various third-party publishing houses. There's Green Ronin and True 20 and RPG Objects. No shortage of source material. Daddy's not going to love us, no matter what we do, so screw Daddy. Let's move on.
LOL... I understand fully your point of view. Still this is the place to welcome OR rewelcome D20 players. Its the obvious place to look for if you want to ask questions or for help. If we all leave "en masse" to another server this place will be so dead WoTC will close it down for lack of activity. Is that what we want?
I also think your "red-headed step child" analogy is an interesting one because it implies that we're upset at the lack of attention from a parental figure. If you'll allow me, as someone who's been around here a good while now, I think it's time we just moved out of our parents' basement and got on with our lives. d20 Modern does live on in various third-party publishing houses. There's Green Ronin and True 20 and RPG Objects. No shortage of source material. Daddy's not going to love us, no matter what we do, so screw Daddy. Let's move on.
the background to my sig is due to the companing of the Star wars Miniture forum goers who before the announce ment complained about the lack of attention they got from WotC,and so i got kida sick of having to say "no,your not the "red headed step child"
People are unhappy with the boosters.
Correct me if I'm wrong- I've never played Gamma World, aren't mutations random? If so, what's the difference between rolling dice on a table/chart and pulling a random card from a deck?
If you read the posts in this thread more thoroughly, you'd see it has nothing to do with that.
If each player in the game rolls on the same chart, then its a balanced random.
But when we let one player roll multiple dice and take the one he likes best
via the mechanic of him just being allowed to buy more dice to roll from WoC,
then the younger / less affluent gamers are at a disadvantage with just their 1 or 2 dice while RentSpentOnBoosters-guy rolls 75dice to get excactly the 'random table entry' he wants
The concept of replacing Table&Die random with Booster random only works,
when each player gets the same number of packs.
The marketing plan is not to have a gaming table where each player shows up with 2 boosters, all the cards are dumped into a bag, and the bag passed around drawing 1 at a time so each player gets equally randomized cards... no, the plan is for players on their own to be discontent with the random they got and keep 'rerolling' that random by buying more packs till the so-called random come up the card they want.
Simplest d20Modern analagy:
You may make your attack/skill rolls with as many dice as you bought & brought to the table,
and just pick the one you want to show the GM.
Folks that give WoC less cash are at a clear disadvantage.
Who said anyone had to buy boosters? The boxed set comes with enough to get started and I would almost bet someone will make blank card templates so you can make your own (think Magic and proxy cards).
you are free to play without the powercreep cards the other players at the table have
I mean,
why spend some real cash to get find/collect a 'rare' 2d8 FiveseN card
when you can just keep playing with a starter box 2d6 Baretta card for free, right?
Proxy cards?
Is that like GQ / Memorex making blank DVD Templates so everyone at the table can have a 'proxy' of the DVD movie only one of ya bought/DL?
For some reason the WoC shill didnt mention that we can just 'proxy' the cards they sell,
how odd he forgot that
By "proxy" cards I was merely making a comparison (in friendly games it's not about how much cash you have/don't have, it's about the game), the fact that there are blank, printable power cards for 4E D&D means that you could conceivably print blank, printable mutant/tech cards to fill out and even make up your own.
But ultimately, don't like it, don't buy it, that'll teach 'em!
I for one would be content with the core box set and nothing else.
Correct me if I'm wrong- I've never played Gamma World, aren't mutations random? If so, what's the difference between rolling dice on a table/chart and pulling a random card from a deck?
Nothing. And as far as I can tell, nobody is bothered by the use of cards. Its the randomized, collectible, rarity system of booster packs that has people up in arms.
Randomization should occur at the game table, not at the point of purchase.
Randomization should occur at the game table, not at the point of purchase.
Well said. It sums up the whole debate in a nutshell. I second !
Randomization should occur at the game table, not at the point of purchase.
Agreed. Introducing random booster packs to a table-top RPG is categorical error, whch is to say: Wizards of the Coast, you're doing it wrong.
I'm gonna buy the boxed set and have everything I need to play. Occasionally I'm gonna buy a couple of boosters to sit with my players before the game, burst them open and go: "Wow - look at this thing!" or "Noooo another...!" just for the thrill of it.
I like it. Wonderful desicion WotC. I totally approve.
I'm gonna buy the boxed set and have everything I need to play. Occasionally I'm gonna buy a couple of boosters to sit with my players before the game, burst them open and go: "Wow - look at this thing!" or "Noooo another...!" just for the thrill of it.
and then what?
You have a box set and can play with the standard stuff,
then you buy some packs and open them at the table with the players,
then with the 14 common cards of DiscoloredHair mutation,
plus the 9 common cards of NoPinkys mutation,
and the 1 rare card of AtWill Kill-You-With-My-Mind (nosave) mutation
... you and the players do what
Is there a quick knife fight at the table
and the guy that needs the fewest stiches gets the one good card?
Or do you just scan & print off a couple dozen copies of that WoC:IP so each player can fairly have a few of the rare?
Or do you take the high road and burn them cards out of principle,
to keep the game balanced
Funny reaction.
I'm gonna buy the boxed set and have everything I need to play. Occasionally I'm gonna buy a couple of boosters to sit with my players before the game, burst them open and go: "Wow - look at this thing!" or "Noooo another...!" just for the thrill of it.
I like it. Wonderful desicion WotC. I totally approve.
Good for you. I hope you enjoy the game. I certainly don't wish ill on anybody's subjective tastes, and if people like the idea of a CCRPG I hope they enjoy Gamma World. WotC, however, better hope that the revenue they make off people buying the cards is enough to make up for the revenue lost due to people like us who won't buy the game at all because of the cards, or groups that don't bother buying the game because a large number of players in the group are not willing to participate in a CCRPG, otherwise their project isn't going to do so well. Personally, I think (and hope) this product is going to end up being a huge failure. Maybe not. Guess we will have to wait and see.
Ah well. I could care less. I have already resigned myself to the fact that I won't be buying Gamma World products, or future D&D products if this model of rules distribution leaks into the D&D brand.
... WotC, however, better hope that the revenue they make off people buying the cards is enough to make up for the revenue lost due to people like us who won't buy the game at all because of the cards, or groups that don't bother buying the game because a large number of players in the group are not willing to participate in a CCRPG, otherwise their project isn't going to do so well.
Its a gamble really. Loss of classic customers revenu VS revenu generated by the collectors market that don't even play the game but will buy the boosters by the cases to make complete sets and then resell them on e-bay. Will there be demand for those cards as they are not a stand alone game like Magic? If they did test market surveys they probably know the answer already...
I'm gonna buy the boxed set and have everything I need to play. Occasionally I'm gonna buy a couple of boosters to sit with my players before the game, burst them open and go: "Wow - look at this thing!" or "Noooo another...!" just for the thrill of it.
and then what?
You have a box set and can play with the standard stuff,
then you buy some packs and open them at the table with the players,
then with the 14 common cards of DiscoloredHair mutation,
plus the 9 common cards of NoPinkys mutation,
and the 1 rare card of AtWill Kill-You-With-My-Mind (nosave) mutation
... you and the players do what
Is there a quick knife fight at the table
and the guy that needs the fewest stiches gets the one good card?
Or do you just scan & print off a couple dozen copies of that WoC:IP so each player can fairly have a few of the rare?
Or do you take the high road and burn them cards out of principle,
to keep the game balanced
Funny. How's gonna be 23 commons and 1 rare? And of course all the CCG include rare cards that make all the rest useless.
BTW in any RPG there are items that are superior. Some ppl get them, some not. So? Does it ruin the game? Nope. And if Gamma World has the same perfect balance as 4E it's not gonna happen. Problem solved.
And of course when Paizo make this it's OK, and if WotC does it, ppl go OMFG they gonna make 5E CCGRPG. Don't panic...
BTW in any RPG there are items that are superior. Some ppl get them, some not. So? Does it ruin the game? Nope. And if Gamma World has the same perfect balance as 4E it's not gonna happen. Problem solved.
And of course when Paizo make this it's OK, and if WotC does it, ppl go OMFG they gonna make 5E CCGRPG. Don't panic...
Well WotC have said the rares in GW are more powerful than others. Not sure if that means they aren't balanced as well as 4E or not.
As for Paizo, I don't know that product. Are the items in that product only available in that product or are they also found in the books? If they are found in the books and the cards are additional format, it wouldn't bother me. If they are only available in card format, that would annoy me. Not as much as Gamma World but that is because I don't bother to collect all D&D/Pathfinder material.
What wizards is doing is the equivalent of chevrolet saying they are going to take their corvette and turn it into a prius clone. It's not nessesariy worse, but you can expect lots of outrage from corvette fans in such a case.
BTW in any RPG there are items that are superior. Some ppl get them, some not. So? Does it ruin the game? Nope. And if Gamma World has the same perfect balance as 4E it's not gonna happen. Problem solved
Sorry, but that counterpoint is based on flawed logic:
Yes a +5 sword is superior to a +1sword,
but characters get/dontget those swords thru playing the game, not by having the player just keep buying enough boosters to equip his noobs with +5 swords.
Is that how you played D&D and Modern?
Your 1st level guys can start with +5sword while the other players dont get any magic,
if you just keep paying the GM $5 till he lets you have it?
Is that really how you play Modern & D&D?
No, I think not.
Or as GM do you allow charcaters to have +5 swords that the player says
"I gave Jimmy $20 to let me have this +5sword, so my newbie char in your campaign has it."
See, I doubt you play like that either.
Maybe you play where the GM says
Jimmy gets to take DoubleTap as 3rd level feat because he paid me $5, you cant take it as a 3rd level feat because you havent paid me the $5 yet.... so just take one of the feats I dont charge for, like MechGunnery. "But we dont have Mechs in this WildWest Campain!" Sorry, that just the way the free common feats vs $5rare feats work out, he gets DTap at 3rd cause he paid me $5 and you dont.
So why would you allow that same garbage in GW?
Its just allowing all the PowerCreep Power-FreightTrain the player is willing to pay for rather than play for.
As for the flawed logic of Proxies justifying random boosters-
How can folks defend the policy of Purchase-Restricted Frequency cards (booster rares)
by saying we can just eliminate that unreasonable restriction with Proxies:
We can also eliminate the unreasonable restriction by not having that unreasonable restriction.
(unreasonable? sure, if it were reasonable we wouldnt need proxies to get around it)
BTW in any RPG there are items that are superior. Some ppl get them, some not. So? Does it ruin the game? Nope.
This comparison is a non sequitur. Having different items available in the manual is totally different than chasing after random decks. The items in an RPG are earned through play, not paid for outside the game. You're defending gold-farmers in WoW. The only objective, here, is to import CC profits into a table-top RPG.
And of course when Paizo make this it's OK, and if WotC does it, ppl go OMFG they gonna make 5E CCGRPG. Don't panic...
That Paizo product has nothing to do with the conversation. You're just trying to draw attention away from waht we're actually talking about. Stop that. It's annoying and transparent.