Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 geekazoid Jun 03, 2008 16:42:32	Hey all, I'm at a loss. I looking to consolidate the list of guns to those of the old west. I just don't know which they are. Can somebody help me narrow them down?
#2 tema69 Jun 03, 2008 16:49:52	Hey all, I'm at a loss. I looking to consolidate the list of guns to those of the old west. I just don't know which they are. Can somebody help me narrow them down? Extensive gun website - handgun section. - look under revolvers (scroll down - look left). Wikipedia to consolidate your list. Revolvers. Samuel Colt. Lever Action Rifles. I don't know much about it myself, but a quick search on wikipedia/google is sure to help you out. I'm sure other people on the boards'll have some real input though.
#3 nadaka Jun 03, 2008 17:14:59	I actually have an extensive list of firearms, stats and descriptions. I am at work right now so I'll upload a copy when I get home.
#4 nodaisho Jun 04, 2008 0:25:55	Well, I don't have an exhaustive list, but you had revolvers, lever guns, and double barreled shotguns, you might also have pump guns, depending on the year, and the 1887 shotgun, a 10-gauge. Most of the revolvers either were reloaded by putting in new cylinders or one round at a time. For long-range, sniper weapons, you are looking at sharps rifles or spencer rifles from what I know. Generic revolver: 2d6, RI 30, fire rate S, 6 shots Generic lever gun: 2d6, RI 70(?) fire rate S, 15/16 shots Generic shotgun: 2d8/2d10, RI 30, fire rate S, 2 shots Sharps rifle (45-70-500): 2d10, RI 90, fire rate single, 1 shot That is the best I can do, the .45-70 sharps was post civil-war, but there were other versions starting about 1840. There was also the LeMat, 9 shots plus a 20 gauge shotgun blast (2d6), I am not sure if those were unreliable or just too expensive to be many of those, but they were rare. I think that at the time, the pistols were about the same power as the lever-guns, the later ones got more powerful, the 30-30 winchester 1894 would be 2d8, not sure about the .44-40 like the 1892. If you wanted to make the shotguns more powerful, up them one die size, 12 gauge would be at 2d10, 10 gauge 2d12, 20 gauge 2d8. Not sure if blackpowder shells would do that much, though. I think most of a shotgun's power comes from the mass of the shot, though, so as long as each pellet wasn't going too slow, I don't think the damage would go down.
#5 johannixx Jun 04, 2008 0:57:20	You're better off doing more generic weapons for an old west campaign: Large-caliber percussion revolver: (Colt 1860 Army, Remington New Army, etc) Small .44 Handgun Damage: 2d6 20x2 Capacity: 6 (Cyl, Muzzle-loading) Range: 30' RoF: Single Special: Muzzle loader. Reloading requires two full-round actions to load, pack, and prime each of the six chambers (12 full rounds to reload the complete cylinder). Medium-caliber percussion revolver (Colt 1851 Navy Revolver, Colt 1848 Wells Fargo revolver (.31 caliber), etc) Small .36 Handgun Damage: 2d4 20x2 Capacity: 6 (Cyl, Muzzle-loading) Range: 30' RoF: Single Special: Muzzle loader. Reloading requires two full-round actions to load, pack, and prime each of the six chambers (12 full rounds to reload the complete cylinder). Colt 1847 Walker Revolver Medium .44 Handgun Damage: 2d8 20x2 Capacity: 6 (Cyl, Muzzle-loading) Range: 30' RoF: Single Special: Muzzle loader. Reloading requires two full-round actions to load, pack, and prime each of the six chambers (12 full rounds to reload the complete cylinder). If a natural 1 is rolled on the attack, the weapon must make a Fortitude save or it blows up and deals normal damage to the wielder (Reflex save for half damage). Colt 1873 Single Action Army Small .45 Handgun Damage: 2d6 20x2 Capacity: 6 (Cyl, loading gate) Range: 30' RoF: Single Special: Loading gate: Reloading requires a move-equivalent action to eject the empty shell and reload each of the six chambers (6 move-equivalent actions to reload the complete cylinder). Characters with Rapid Reload can reload two chambers per move-equivalent action. Due to its fine manufacture and ergonomics, the Colt SAA is always considered a Mastercraft +1 handgun Smith & Wesson Schofield Small .45 Handgun Damage: 2d6 20x2 Capacity: 6 (Cyl) Range: 30' RoF: Single Special: Hinged frame. Weapon can be reloaded with six fresh cartridges as a full-round action. These statistics can also be used for the various percussion revolvers that featured interchangeable cylinders. Double-barreled Shotgun: Large 10-gauge Shotgun Damage: 2d10 20x2 Capacity: 2 (Int) Range: 30' RoF: S Trapdoor Springfield: Large .45-70 Rifle Damage: 2d10 20x2 Capacity: 1 (Int) Range: 60' RoF: Single Sharps Rifle: Large .45-70 Rifle Damage: 2d10 20x2 Capacity: 1 (Int) Range: 80' RoF: Single Special: Due to its high quality of manufacture, the Sharps rifle is considered to be a Mastercraft +1 weapon Spencer rifle: Large .56-56 Rifle Damage: 2d8 20x2 Capacity: 7 (Int) Range: 50' RoF: Single Lever-action Carbine (Henry Rifle, Winchester models 1866, 1873, 1892, 1894) Damage: 2d6 20x2 Capacity: 15+1 (Int) Range: 40' RoF: Single Special: Due to the large capacity magazine, it takes two full round actions to fully load it. A single full round action loads 8 rounds, while a move equivalent action loads 4 rounds. Lever-action Rifle: (Winchester 1876, 1886, 1894) Damage: 2d8 20x2 Capacity: 8+1 (Int) Range: 60' RoF: Single Lever Action Heavy Rifle (1886, 1894 in .45-70) Damage: 2d10 20x2 Capacity: 8+1 (Int) Range: 60' RoF: Single Winchester 1897 Large 12-gauge pump shotgun Damage: 2d10 20x2 Capacity: 6 (Int) Range: 30' RoF: Single
#6 natanax Jun 04, 2008 10:19:14	Check out "Sidewinder:Reloaded" from Green Ronin, they have an excellent list of Old West Firearms, my group and I use it for out Post-Apoc Western.
#7 tema69 Jun 04, 2008 10:27:29	Post Apoc Western? Interesting concept. :P
#8 nodaisho Jun 04, 2008 14:37:36	Makes sense, not much to go wrong with a good revolver or coach gun, and blackpowder is somewhat easier to make than smokeless, though I think that it wouldn't be long before most people managed to get their hands on some smokeless powder (anarchist's cookbook has a recipe, I think. Don't know whether it works or not, and there are probably laws against making it yourself, but post-apoc, there isn't much law). Horses are easier to maintain and make more of than cars, and just about everyone is going to try to steal a car, since you could outrun most everything with one. 1887 shotgun: Large, 2d10, 30 foot RI, S RoF, 5 shots. The RoFs on Johannixx's post are probably more realistic, but by RAW, levers and single-action revolvers are S.
#9 natanax Jun 05, 2008 11:51:02	A Post Apocalyptic Steampunk Martial Arts Western that we try to pace more like an Indiana Jones movie.
#10 tema69 Jun 05, 2008 15:04:24	*Post Apocalyptic* + *Steampunk* + *Martial Arts Western* + *Indiana Jones* = that's a plethora of cool concepts blended into a single campaign! Kudos for thinkin' that up.
#11 geekazoid Jun 06, 2008 20:43:16	Thanks Johannixx and nodaisho. Just what I'm looking for. I should mention this is for a pick-up game while the regular DM regroups. So historic accuracy is not a huge concern. So long as the players can figure out what they are shooting with, I'm happy. How about concealable guns like the Derringer? And I gotta have an npc with a pepperbox. You guys have stats for that?
#12 nadaka Jun 07, 2008 2:59:11	Ok, here is my western weapon file, sorry bout the delay. It was on one of my old laptops... OGL license LEGAL INFORMATION Permission to copy, modify and distribute this document is granted solely through the use of the Open Gaming License, Version 1.0a. This document provides an interface to the basic rules and materials needed to create content compatible with the modern setting based on the best-selling tabletop RPG system in the world. This material is being released using the Open Gaming License Version 1.0a and you should read and understand the terms of that license before using this material. The text of the Open Gaming License itself is not Open Game Content. Instructions on using the License are provided within the License itself. All of the rest of the text in this document is Open Game Content as described in Section 1(d) of the License. More information on the Open Game License can be found at www.wizards.com/d20. 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#13 geekazoid Jun 07, 2008 17:33:51	nadaka... thats a mighty big list o firearms pardner! you bin a busy geek! I don't own the d20 Firearms (??) book. Are these from that or are they your own stats?
#14 nadaka Jun 07, 2008 20:54:13	They are my own stats. I originally wrote them a couple years ago for a wild west message board game. They have evolved a little bit since then with the input of people like David Kennedy (MontanaKennedy on these boards) and a few others. NOte that these rules are open content.
#15 akodo Jun 08, 2008 21:17:12	Here's my take Percussion Revolvers 1 move action to remove the cylinder 1 move action to replace the cylinder (dex check in combat) Can only be done once per encounter (after that it just gets to dirty with residue it gets real tricky to get in, plus, the paradigm of the time was different, they just never carried around beltsfull of loaded cylinders) 1 move action to load powder 1 move action to load and seat ball 1 move action to place all primers (dex check in combat, amount you miss by is the number of chambers you cannot seat a primer on, due to you dropping it or the nipple being full of fowling so it won't seat, or the nipple is clogged and you aren't holding the gun up to the light and looking through each nipple or shoving a feather through it, etc etc) 1 move action to place a single primer, no check needed Option 1 move action to load and seat a home-made paper cartridge in place of doing it manually. May require some sort of knowldge to make your own paper cartridges, and you of course have to buy special nitro paper Chance of all chambers firing at once - not sure how to impliment this Chance of smoldering powder exploding the fresh powder as you reload - not sure how to impliment this. 4 'classes' of cap and ball revolvers to determine damage Horse Pistol - walker dragoon and the like heavy pistol - 44 calibers that aren't the super heavy walkers light pistol - 36 calibers pocket pistols - 31 calibers I'd treat all maked of handguns the same within those catagories, with a few possible special exceptions. It doesn't really matter if someone is using an 1858 new army or an 1860 army. Possible exception for the 1851 navy in .36 with a 7 1/2, may give that one a +1 due to it being such a well ballanced weapon and the choice of all the big gunfighters. 44 and 36 also available in single shot pistols 36 and 31 also available in double barreled derringers, with damage reduction and range restrictions "Standard" Colt style single action hinged door revolver Unlike most modern revolvers, it doesn't dump all the cartridges out at once, you have to rotate the empty in place (which is luckily 1 stop away from under the hammer) push a rod to pop the cartridge out, and then insert the new round. I'd say 1 move action to eject up to 2 spent cartridges 1 move action to insert a fresh cartridge 4 'classes' of damage based on chambering 45 LC - less than horse pistol, more than 'heavy cap and ball' 44 44 russian 44-40, 45 scholfield, 38-40 etc, same as heavy cap and ball 38 long 41 long 44 henry 44 evans etc, same as light cap and ball 32 long etc, same as pocket Top break single action revolvers, treat the same as loading gate single actions, except you can unload the entire gun in a single move action. lever action rifles 1 move to insert a fresh cartridge, no worries about the spent cartridges, they eject with the lever action (or pump) Henry rifle (winchester 1860): loading restriction of having to tip it up to slide the cartridges in from the top loading gate and then reinsert spring tube. I think i'd go with 'cannot load on a turn when you move, must load standing up or kneeling' it's main benifit is high capacity of 13 rounds but weak power. Yellowboy(winchester 1866): treat as normal lever action rifle of high capacity but weak power. Any yellowboys chambered for more traditional rounds like 44-40 etc would be treated as below "generic lever action rifle" maybe "short throw lever gun" (winchester 1892, 1873, marlin 1888, etc) basically you are able to match your rifle chambering to your sidearm, note 45 colt NOT an option in this class, 44-40, 38-40 and a few exotics are your options. "big bore lever action" (marlin 1881, winchester 1876, winchester 1886) allows access to lever guns in heavy, serious calibers like 45-70 "trombone gun" Colt 1884 lightning rifle, a pump action rifle, in 3 sizes, small, medium, large. skip small, medium = generic lever gun, large = same as 'big bore' All these guns can be 'topped off' i.e. use a move action to add one more round to the gun's magazine, provided you have some close at hand, in your pocket or belt loops. Spencer rifle, same loading restriction as the henry (although it loads through the buttstock), but it's power level would be jsut a bit more than the "horse pistol" due to it's big heavy hard hitting rounds. Of course, only 7 shots. It cannot be 'topped off' Evans rifle - weak rifle, loads throught the butt, same loading restrictions as henry, cannot be topped off...BUT, it has a 28 round capacity springfield rifle and carbine (both use 45-70 but carbine uses lower powered rounds so dock the damage just a little) or any other hinge, rolling block, or trapdoor single shot rifle 1 move action to remove cartridge 1 move action to insert new cartridge can be attempted to do in a single action with a dex check "paper cartridge breech loaders' 1 move action to open and insert cartridge 1 move action to close and prime Muzzle loaders 1 move action to insert powder 1 move action to insert miniball 1 move action to replace ramrod (can be skipped, but you shoot your ram rod...so good luck reloading) 1 move action to prime Muzzle loaders
#16 geekazoid Jun 09, 2008 11:34:11	WOW! I knew I came to the right place with this question How about an elephant gun? ....stop laughing!
#17 backstabbist Jun 09, 2008 14:34:54	You have any idea how big a gun has to be to shoot elephants at people? Also, it is hardly fair... almost discriminating that there are Brass revolvers, and there are Percussion revolvers, but there are no Woodwinds or Strings revolvers.
#18 geekazoid Jun 09, 2008 15:09:06	You have any idea how big a gun has to be to shoot elephants at people? Also, it is hardly fair... almost discriminating that there are Brass revolvers, and there are Percussion revolvers, but there are no Woodwinds or Strings revolvers. What I said about coming to the right place....I take it back:P
#19 nodaisho Jun 14, 2008 20:54:50	I think the 8 gauge ought to qualify as an elephant gun, it took down a graboid. Nadaka, I would suggest also having stats for the 10-gauge side by sides, since those were common for use as coach guns, I think I remember reading (maybe Chuck hawks?) that Wells-Fargo coaches had those very often. Course, that is just a slight change in damage, maybe 2d12 rather than 2d10.
#20 geekazoid Jun 15, 2008 22:23:50	Wait a minute... I don't see the Gatling gun in here guys. Any ideas?
#21 backstabbist Jun 16, 2008 0:42:38	You have any idea how big a gun has to be to shoot Dr Gatling at people?;) Use the stats for .58Rimfire or just wing it for the .45: 2d10 70' Auto Only (Blast, Autofire10, Burst5) 40rnd magazine
#22 nadaka Jun 16, 2008 10:56:31	Wait a minute... I don't see the Gatling gun in here guys. Any ideas? its at the bottom under exotic and next to the Bola and artillery on my table.
#23 geekazoid Jun 16, 2008 21:14:00	its at the bottom under exotic and next to the Bola and artillery on my table. Ah HAH! Maybe if I could spell Gattling correctly I would have found it.
#24 geekazoid Jun 16, 2008 21:20:50	its at the bottom under exotic and next to the Bola and artillery on my table. Ah HAH! Maybe if I could spell Gattling correctly I would have found it. Thanks.
#25 johannixx Jun 17, 2008 0:12:21	Actually, you spelled it correctly the first time. There is only one 't' in Gatling.
#26 the_shaman_02 Jun 18, 2008 0:29:23	Once upon a time I posted stats for about a dozen Victorian-era European weapons that would be fun to sneak into an Old West game. Sadly they seem to have been purged in the years since.
#27 natanax Jun 20, 2008 11:20:37	*Post Apocalyptic* + *Steampunk* + *Martial Arts Western* + *Indiana Jones* = that's a plethora of cool concepts blended into a single campaign! Kudos for thinkin' that up. It's an idea that was developed by myself and two friends in Highschool as a joke and eventually mutated into a full blown project that almost everyone I know has had an impact on. I keep meaning to start a thread regarding it but it's a project that my friends and I actually want to transform into something profitable one of these days so we're worried about copyright issues.