Opinions regarding Leadership and Feats - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Opinions regarding Leadership and Feats

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
nix4
Aug 04, 2008 9:32:21 So, I'm running a weekly d20 Modern/Future game. The players have reached the magical 6th lvl where leadership becomes an option.

I then noticed how d20 Modern dosn't list this feat and its really only availabe from the d20 Past book as Minion and Cohort feats...

Basically they broke down the Leadership feat into two seperate feats for followers and cohorts.

Its my opinion that the game, in general, is feat starved. Now they have to expend two feats to get what they can get in 1 from regular 3.5e dnd.

I understand that Leadership is considered overpowered, mostly due to poor management by the GM IMHO. So, breaking it up is good In my eyes..but too expensive at the cost of another feat slot.

I've been thinking of offering additional feats to players. Something like this:

Every player gets an additional Bonus Feat every four lvls.
Those bonus feats must be selected from the list below:

Starship-dodge
Starship-gunnery
Starship-anything
Mecha-anything
Power Armor-anything
Driving/Piloting-anything
Minions
Cohort
Toughness
etc..(listing a few more feats that I would consider utilitarian or somwhat unpopular would make them more popular as a bonus feat).

Thoughts?
#2
greatnightwolf
Aug 07, 2008 10:42:20 Most of the time I give my PCs additional Feats depending on the Setting.

Example: In one off my Mecha Games all of my PCs got Giant Robot Operation and one Mecha Weapon Proficiency for free. Even thought about giving them Personal Fire Arms Proficiency but all took Military Occupation and got it from that so it wasn't a Problem.

But you could introduce Profession related Bonus Feats for every 4 levels if you don't think it unbalances your game. Sounds interesting enough to try it out on my next game I am starting.
#3
nix4
Aug 07, 2008 10:52:13 I ended up doing something similiar to that:

Bonus Pick-Up Feats:
Because this campaign is set in the Future, education and training will allow for some feats to become more readily available and not require the player to sacrifice existing feat slots for them.
Characters will recieve 1 pick-up feat from the list below every 4 levels.

PICK-UP FEATS
Aircraft Operation
Animal Affinity
Athletic
Builder
Creative
Cybertaker
Educated
Endurance
Focused
Gearhead
Guide
Iron Will
Jack of All Trades
Lightning Reflexes
Magical Affinity
Medical Expert
Nimble
Personal Firearms Proficiency *
Planetary Adaption **
Simple Weapons Proficiency *
Spacer
Starship Operation
Starship Gunnery
Stealthy
Streetfighting
Studious
Trustworthy
Vehicle Expert
Mecha Operation
Mecha Weapon Proficiency
* - These are often gained at low lvls by starting character packages, you can turn your existin g feat into a "pick-up" feat and instead choose a standard feat from the full list.
** - Only available at 1st level and dependant on your homeworld.
Note: As with all house rules, these are subject to change. This is an effort to make less-popular feats more useful and to bring more abilities to the game.
#4
tema69
Aug 07, 2008 11:34:16 I'd make it every 5 levels. Every 4 levels, a character already receives an ability increase.
#5
azisien
Aug 07, 2008 11:42:16 Hm. I don't think my characters have ever been high enough level to be considered "feat starved." I mean in basic classes, you get a bonus feat every other level, plus your character feats. In advanced classes, well, you're specializing, and many of them still get bonus feats.

Feat starved, now that's a new word!

But yeah, two feats is a lot for one Leadership ability. I've always figured such an ability just grants you either a) A new party member or b) An organization that's more tightly controlled by the PC. I do see how it's split though; it's more of a concept split in my eyes. The cohort/follower concept are simultaneously the same and yet different.

I'm with Tema. If you make such a decision, every 5 instead of every 4. That's 4 extra feats in the end, which is a lot.
#6
tema69
Aug 07, 2008 12:16:21
Also, what started as a misconception, we give every character a Starting feat, as well as a Level 1 feat. On top of that, add the Human bonus feat. This comes from playing too much D&D and not reading the rules well enough. :D
I don't think d20 Modern is feat starved at all. But that's another discussion.
#7
nix4
Aug 07, 2008 13:10:08 5 lvls makes sense,

Ya, well I have 4 players and none of them have starship operation yet they own one...but they dont want to give up a feat for that.

So thats why I'm doing this...I want those operation skills to be more available to them w/o giving up things they want for their character.
#8
azisien
Aug 07, 2008 13:27:07 You sound like a nice GM, which isn't a bad thing. I have a habit of keeping my PCs alive, but I do disagree with your method there. It's your wish of course, and you're the handler of your players, but yeah.

If your players want their "characters" to be a certain way, and this way includes not knowing how to pilot a starship at all, and they're in a starship campaign, I say screw them.

Alternatively, if your campaign is loaded enough with starships, you can always rule there IS no Starship Operation feat and Pilot (Starship) essentially becomes like Drive is in d20 Modern. There is no Car Operation feat; people know how to drive. In the future, people might just know how to pilot a space ship. Doing SPECIAL things with cars/starships is what requires skills/feats.

And if that's the case, I dunno, your players ought to include feat/skill specs if they want to do special things. That's a given.
#9
greatnightwolf
Aug 07, 2008 14:16:33 Azisien, interesting approach. Seem logical for things like freigther or maybe such starships that are available like Cars.

I still think starships like starfighters and capital ships should have a Feat as they are a 'specialized' or lets say 'complex' version of more common ships.

Hope you have some input for your campaign nix4.
#10
nix4
Aug 07, 2008 15:29:42 Yep thanks for the feedback everyone! the 5 lvl thing I will put in place...will make the character leveling more fun as well.

Its also interesting to see how people approach these things in their game too, learn allot that way.
#11
tema69
Aug 07, 2008 16:45:32
Yep thanks for the feedback everyone! the 5 lvl thing I will put in place...will make the character leveling more fun as well.

Its also interesting to see how people approach these things in their game too, learn allot that way.

Indeed.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 nix4 Aug 04, 2008 9:32:21	So, I'm running a weekly d20 Modern/Future game. The players have reached the magical 6th lvl where leadership becomes an option. I then noticed how d20 Modern dosn't list this feat and its really only availabe from the d20 Past book as Minion and Cohort feats... Basically they broke down the Leadership feat into two seperate feats for followers and cohorts. Its my opinion that the game, in general, is feat starved. Now they have to expend two feats to get what they can get in 1 from regular 3.5e dnd. I understand that Leadership is considered overpowered, mostly due to poor management by the GM IMHO. So, breaking it up is good In my eyes..but too expensive at the cost of another feat slot. I've been thinking of offering additional feats to players. Something like this: Every player gets an additional Bonus Feat every four lvls. Those bonus feats must be selected from the list below: Starship-dodge Starship-gunnery Starship-anything Mecha-anything Power Armor-anything Driving/Piloting-anything Minions Cohort Toughness etc..(listing a few more feats that I would consider utilitarian or somwhat unpopular would make them more popular as a bonus feat). Thoughts?
#2 greatnightwolf Aug 07, 2008 10:42:20	Most of the time I give my PCs additional Feats depending on the Setting. Example: In one off my Mecha Games all of my PCs got Giant Robot Operation and one Mecha Weapon Proficiency for free. Even thought about giving them Personal Fire Arms Proficiency but all took Military Occupation and got it from that so it wasn't a Problem. But you could introduce Profession related Bonus Feats for every 4 levels if you don't think it unbalances your game. Sounds interesting enough to try it out on my next game I am starting.
#3 nix4 Aug 07, 2008 10:52:13	I ended up doing something similiar to that: Bonus Pick-Up Feats: Because this campaign is set in the Future, education and training will allow for some feats to become more readily available and not require the player to sacrifice existing feat slots for them. Characters will recieve 1 pick-up feat from the list below every 4 levels. PICK-UP FEATS Aircraft Operation Animal Affinity Athletic Builder Creative Cybertaker Educated Endurance Focused Gearhead Guide Iron Will Jack of All Trades Lightning Reflexes Magical Affinity Medical Expert Nimble Personal Firearms Proficiency * Planetary Adaption ** Simple Weapons Proficiency * Spacer Starship Operation Starship Gunnery Stealthy Streetfighting Studious Trustworthy Vehicle Expert Mecha Operation Mecha Weapon Proficiency * - These are often gained at low lvls by starting character packages, you can turn your existin g feat into a "pick-up" feat and instead choose a standard feat from the full list. ** - Only available at 1st level and dependant on your homeworld. Note: As with all house rules, these are subject to change. This is an effort to make less-popular feats more useful and to bring more abilities to the game.
#4 tema69 Aug 07, 2008 11:34:16	I'd make it every 5 levels. Every 4 levels, a character already receives an ability increase.
#5 azisien Aug 07, 2008 11:42:16	Hm. I don't think my characters have ever been high enough level to be considered "feat starved." I mean in basic classes, you get a bonus feat every other level, plus your character feats. In advanced classes, well, you're specializing, and many of them still get bonus feats. Feat starved, now that's a new word! But yeah, two feats is a lot for one Leadership ability. I've always figured such an ability just grants you either a) A new party member or b) An organization that's more tightly controlled by the PC. I do see how it's split though; it's more of a concept split in my eyes. The cohort/follower concept are simultaneously the same and yet different. I'm with Tema. If you make such a decision, every 5 instead of every 4. That's 4 extra feats in the end, which is a lot.
#6 tema69 Aug 07, 2008 12:16:21	Also, what started as a misconception, we give every character a Starting feat, as well as a Level 1 feat. On top of that, add the Human bonus feat. This comes from playing too much D&D and not reading the rules well enough. :D I don't think d20 Modern is feat starved at all. But that's another discussion.
#7 nix4 Aug 07, 2008 13:10:08	5 lvls makes sense, Ya, well I have 4 players and none of them have starship operation yet they own one...but they dont want to give up a feat for that. So thats why I'm doing this...I want those operation skills to be more available to them w/o giving up things they want for their character.
#8 azisien Aug 07, 2008 13:27:07	You sound like a nice GM, which isn't a bad thing. I have a habit of keeping my PCs alive, but I do disagree with your method there. It's your wish of course, and you're the handler of your players, but yeah. If your players want their "characters" to be a certain way, and this way includes not knowing how to pilot a starship at all, and they're in a starship campaign, I say screw them. Alternatively, if your campaign is loaded enough with starships, you can always rule there IS no Starship Operation feat and Pilot (Starship) essentially becomes like Drive is in d20 Modern. There is no Car Operation feat; people know how to drive. In the future, people might just know how to pilot a space ship. Doing SPECIAL things with cars/starships is what requires skills/feats. And if that's the case, I dunno, your players ought to include feat/skill specs if they want to do special things. That's a given.
#9 greatnightwolf Aug 07, 2008 14:16:33	Azisien, interesting approach. Seem logical for things like freigther or maybe such starships that are available like Cars. I still think starships like starfighters and capital ships should have a Feat as they are a 'specialized' or lets say 'complex' version of more common ships. Hope you have some input for your campaign nix4.
#10 nix4 Aug 07, 2008 15:29:42	Yep thanks for the feedback everyone! the 5 lvl thing I will put in place...will make the character leveling more fun as well. Its also interesting to see how people approach these things in their game too, learn allot that way.
#11 tema69 Aug 07, 2008 16:45:32	Yep thanks for the feedback everyone! the 5 lvl thing I will put in place...will make the character leveling more fun as well. Its also interesting to see how people approach these things in their game too, learn allot that way. Indeed.