http://www.cyberdyne.jp/english/robotsuithal/index.html
Like those little generators you hook up to your wheel for bicycle lights?
Yes or those Faraday flashlights that after shaking them gives you a certain amount of power to shine the light... and there are non-military applications for a suit... Imagine the site of a recent earthquake in a remote valley or region and having no viable way of getting heavy load movers into the area... Solution send in a couple of squads wearing such suits
Yes or those Faraday flashlights that after shaking them gives you a certain amount of power to shine the light... and there are non-military applications for a suit... Imagine the site of a recent earthquake in a remote valley or region and having no viable way of getting heavy load movers into the area... Solution send in a couple of squads wearing such suits
Now that you mention it, search-and-rescue operations, in which the suits themselves are far less likely to get destroyed, are probably more economically viable than combat applications. Cool.
I'd say it actually comes down to cost. Making one of those suits is damned expensive. People, however, are worth only as much money as you put into them (food, shelter, training). If "super suit" > "human being" then why bother with the suit? Make no mistake, this is how the military thinks. Human life doesn't have a whole lot of value when you're in the business of killing as many of "them" as possible while getting as few of "us" killed as possible.
That's totally why we have $2Bil (probably more since inflation) B2 Spirit bombers. Yup...
Don't get me wrong, you're right on the military mentality (though I'd imagine military higherups aren't the emotionless, hard-headed douchebags that hollywood makes them out to be >>), but if something is proven cost-effective they'll do it even if it costs more than they put into the guy.
Probably the first military guys you'd see in powered armor are spec. ops.
atanakar - Unless the US/UN decided to correct middle-eastern spelling issues, I believe the country is still spelled Iraq. :P
/joke.
...atanakar - Unless the US/UN decided to correct middle-eastern spelling issues, I believe the country is still spelled Iraq. :P /joke.
You are right and wrong at the same time. I wrote it in French !
Don't get me wrong, you're right on the military mentality (though I'd imagine military higherups aren't the emotionless, hard-headed douchebags that hollywood makes them out to be >>), but if something is proven cost-effective they'll do it even if it costs more than they put into the guy.
That is how one has to think in war. It's horrifying and inhumane, but that's the nature of the beast. That's why I think we should stop having them.
Thge additional cost of lengthening the arms
and training tactical commanders Ape Sign Language
makes equipping gorilla fighters with PowerArmor cost prohibitive
..... not to mention the stink PETA will put up about it,
and the last folks you want to UNIONIZE
(to protect their jobs from low wage 'gorilla scabs' )
is the military.... Heavy Artillery and OnStrike dont mix
that dont apply to the MechaMonkies in power armor troops ;)
Union Lobbyists vs PETA Lobbyists.... they will get the right to collective bargaining and drive up the labor costs of the ApeArmy of One (One freaky SuperSuitSiminian one)
That is how one has to think in war. It's horrifying and inhumane, but that's the nature of the beast. That's why I think we should stop having them.
We're far from perfect, though, so no war is kinda a hell of a great distance out of reach. As things stand, the only thing that keeps nations in line is the knowledge/threat of violence... but now we're back to political subjects. :P
I didn't say I disagreed with you - and forgive me if I'm reading your post in the wrong tone - on the military mentality. It's the best way to win a war. >_>
And as for your democracy, the United States of America is a Constitutional Republic. There's quite a difference between it and a total democracy. See... it has rules to keep the tyranny of majority in check.
... I did it again. Erhem... Let's see if I can actually post something on-topic.
Powered armor will be used by the military when the process of producing it becomes simple/safe/cheap enough to mass produce or even special order for spec. ops.
I think a nation would have to create new tactics and training techniques for powered armor troops.
What would you use PA (not park attendant) troops for, anyway? The extra strength of the suit allows for heavier armor, so perhaps they can wade into fire and draw it away from the squishier troops.
Maybe you'll have lighter-armored PA troops with heavier weaponry. This way you can have your heavy team get to places where vehicles would normally get chewed up by focus fire... and then hit the enemy hard with vehicle/sub-vehicle weaponry.
We're far from perfect, though, so no war is kinda a hell of a great distance out of reach. As things stand, the only thing that keeps nations in line is the knowledge/threat of violence... but now we're back to political subjects. :P
[politics]
Actually, I think the ever-present threat of violence by dominant nations is historically the cause of a lot of wars, along with the economic hardships created by imperial cultures. All roads lead to Rome because that's where all the Cool Stuff gets carried after it's been stolen. Noam Chomsky's Survival or Hegemony lays it all out pretty clearly.
[/politics]
I didn't say I disagreed with you - and forgive me if I'm reading your post in the wrong tone - on the military mentality. It's the best way to win a war.
It's the most efficient, yes, absolutely. I just disagree with war.
And as for your democracy, the United States of America is a Constitutional Republic. There's quite a difference between it and a total democracy. See... it has rules to keep the tyranny of majority in check.
And how's that worked out for y'all over the last, say, eight years? ;)
... I did it again. Erhem... Let's see if I can actually post something on-topic.
Aw, but this is fun! (and totally not acrimonious, by the way)
What would you use PA (not park attendant) troops for, anyway?
Extended, hand-to-hand, ground war. Robotech actually kinda sorta had it right. You're fighting in occupied territory, former cities and such, you can't really do that with tanks. You need individual troops. That's why your military funds so much research into things like micro-mesh cloths that stiffen on impact (body armour) or HUD displays in helmets. They want better individual soldiers, as well as all kinds of other stuff of course.
Maybe you'll have lighter-armored PA troops with heavier weaponry. This way you can have your heavy team get to places where vehicles would normally get chewed up by focus fire... and then hit the enemy hard with vehicle/sub-vehicle weaponry.
I can see this working out it most inaccessible terrain like mountainous regions/etcetera of the LPA unit taking cover in a bombed out building before attacking the column passing below.
I wouldn't limit the uses to hand-to-hand. Close-quarters, perhaps, but certainly not just H2H.
@ Anime - Exactly what I was thinking. The enemy commander thinks he's got the situation under control; his troops are pushing back the Americans/Peacekeepers/whatever... and then a shell from a small cannon starts collapsing every building his troops are hiding in, or a minigun starts cleaning them out.
The kind of stuff I find really interesting is the less "Iron-Man" things, like uniforms that can stiffen and/or inflate at the press of button so that you make yourself an instant splint. I mean, I would just never have thought of that, but it's the sort of extremely practical measure that military minds come up with. My hope, of course, is that this kind of technology would be used far more for search and rescue than anything else, but that's not my call, obviously.
So how long until the military gets hold of it and makes this?
Military coontractors are already working on an exoskeleton. There is online video of it in operation. I imagine it can do other things they aren't showing us too, "national safety" and all that stuff.
Honestly, we are probably within 50 years of having mechs reminiscent of those found in Battletech. DARPA is even working on something they called "variable geometry aircraft". I giggled like a schoolgirl when I read that on their site (see my sig for the reason).
@ Anime - Exactly what I was thinking. The enemy commander thinks he's got the situation under control; his troops are pushing back the Americans/Peacekeepers/whatever... and then a shell from a small cannon starts collapsing every building his troops are hiding in, or a minigun starts cleaning them out.
Probably Americans. There is a reason why we're called the "arsenal of freedom". It's because we spend vastly more on military R&D than most other countries. Our R&D budget for the military is even higher than the R&D budget for Isreal (which is actually considered to have the best military in the world).
As an aside, energy weapons are the real deal in the field. You deploy a single, effective armored company equipped with lasers instead of cannon and people will surrender so fast you'd think it's going out of style. The army that fields the first effective energy weapons or energy shield will have a tremendous psychological advantage over their opponents.
like armored mechs and lasers.
Now if we just had power sources for all the neat stuff,
like armored mechs and lasers.
Technology grows exponentially these days. There's no reason to assume we can't make it work with some cash and dedication.
Technology grows exponentially these days. There's no reason to assume we can't make it work with some cash and dedication.
Lets not forget the advances in Fuel cell and battery life... and with the possiblity of Nanotech seemingly not far away according to MSN then soon we'll have computers running at super computer speeds and whatnot
super computer
Supercomputer
/dumb
:P
On-topic: energy weapons (like lasers) require a large power source. There's a reason there are plans to mount the anti-missile one on a 747.
Just a thought.
Sure, they have some that go far, and some that go fast, and some that go far fast but then need to spend a day recharging off more than your kitchen 20amp 110v....
but I dont see a practical power source for these 800-2000lb cars,
and certainly not one for 30tons of RHA/chab and a multiton 57mm cannon added on
Supercomputer
/dumb
:P
But I can see the nano heat syncs being applied to say the micro-nuclear fuel core/battery as well as Nanocarbon armor to keep a round from punching the armor for a couple hundred/thousand rounds as well as the former 4ghz cpu that can then run at 13 times the normal speed for the same amount of power as before
On-topic: energy weapons (like lasers) require a large power source. There's a reason there are plans to mount the anti-missile one on a 747.
Just a thought.
Definately need a computer to handle the targeting of multiple enemies
I havent seen any real advancements in Non-Gasoline car power.
Sure, they have some that go far, and some that go fast, and some that go far fast but then need to spend a day recharging off more than your kitchen 20amp 110v....
We could drive less. That's the one solution people don't like to talk about.
Military coontractors are already working on an exoskeleton. There is online video of it in operation. I imagine it can do other things they aren't showing us too, "national safety" and all that stuff.
Honestly, we are probably within 50 years of having mechs reminiscent of those found in Battletech. DARPA is even working on something they called "variable geometry aircraft". I giggled like a schoolgirl when I read that on their site (see my sig for the reason).
Actually.. They've had variable geometry aircraft for awhile. Look at the F-14 Tomcat. It's moving wings create a variable geometry. Also look at the F-111 Aardvark, B-1 Lancer, Russian made Tu-160 and MiG 23.
I havent seen any real advancements in Non-Gasoline car power.
Sure, they have some that go far, and some that go fast, and some that go far fast but then need to spend a day recharging off more than your kitchen 20amp 110v....
but I dont see a practical power source for these 800-2000lb cars,
and certainly not one for 30tons of RHA/chab and a multiton 57mm cannon added on
I know some people who are working on ways of improving the fuel cells right now. Trying to make them cheaper and more efficient so that we can actually power those 800-200 lb cars and 30 tons of RHA/chab XP
So far at the moment.. Not much improvement over the current ones, but they've only been at it for like 5 months so far.
On-topic: energy weapons (like lasers) require a large power source. There's a reason there are plans to mount the anti-missile one on a 747.
Just a thought.
I personally thought that was stupid. The putting it on an airplane thing, not your post. It seems to me that it would be much simpler to create towers topped by the laser turrets. Perhaps integrate them into existing infrastructure. There is no need to take on the fuel expense for both the plane and the laser. That was just a craptacular call on someone's part.
I personally thought that was stupid. The putting it on an airplane thing, not your post. It seems to me that it would be much simpler to create towers topped by the laser turrets. Perhaps integrate them into existing infrastructure. There is no need to take on the fuel expense for both the plane and the laser. That was just a craptacular call on someone's part.
I read somewhere that it actually had something to do with the lower atmosphere making the "beam" less effective, so they needed it to be high in the sky but not satellite high.
Or... something.
Technology grows exponentially
Not according to d20 Future. :P
I wonder if it was a money thing? Put a laser on a jumbo-jet, and then you only need a few because you can (theoretically) place those jets anywhere you like. Put one on a tower and it's basically stuck where it is. I'm not saying I agree, but that might have been why they did it that way.
If the information about the lower atmosphere being an obstacle was accurate, then the reason they chose a jet had to be because of the treaty we signed with the Russians that says we can't put weapons platforms into orbit. Because the "star-wars" system would have been much better than the "laser jet" system.
But yes, that does sound consistent.
Who's "we" Yankee?
But yes, that does sound consistent.
I don't think any other power in the world (sans China) has the guts to put such a "warlike" project into swing. ;) Aaand if China did it, everyone else would flip out.
... Despite the advantages of significantly decreasing the advantages of ICBM nukes. I mean, think about satellites with anti-nuke laser systems aboard. That sounds like an excellent way to shut down one type of nuclear war....
I read somewhere that it actually had something to do with the lower atmosphere making the "beam" less effective, so they needed it to be high in the sky but not satellite high.
Or... something.
Air particles mess with lasers just as much as they do with bullets... just in a different way. You're going to need a hell of a power source to blast something that's over the pacific from a tower in California. If your jet is at the same altitude/closer, you don't need as much energy to burn through all the crap in the way.
Edit: Hooray for posting twice in a row... I'm tired, just got home from work. >_>
I don't think any other power in the world (sans China) has the guts to put such a "warlike" project into swing. ;) Aaand if China did it, everyone else would flip out.
A lot of the world would/does flip out when America does it, too, but point taken (here we go, gettin' political again).
Actually, with all the contraversy that would undoubtedly surround that sort of thing, it could be that some country unimportant to the news will be the first to launch such a thing... Wouldn't that make for an interesting story/campaign? Kinda a nice Tom Clancy-esque suspense...
:P
Canadian PM: "We have satellite weapons. We demand respect."
US Populace: "Awww. Isn't Canada cute when she tries to be big and bad. Like your baby sister pulling on boxing gloves."
ChiComs have the RedStar, CanCom have the RedMapleLeaf... sure its coincidence
They try to lul us into security with their cute talking... like saying 'eh' after everythig.
I mean, just ask one to spell their country: "C, eh, N, eh, D, eh".
They are so diabolic, they disguised the fact that their country name is a palindrome by changing the letters and pronounciation... now we cant see the palindrome in CANADA.
.... clearly the work of Evil Geniuses (Geniusea? Genii?
)We'll lure you all into complacency with maple syrup and beer so we will sweep in and take over and no one is the wiser.
Just sayin'
Pull all the Normal Looking people out of line for thorough check
What are the Northern Menace going to use to power their powerarmor?
Maple syrop. It's more expensive than gas, but it's renewable so, you know, six of one half-dozen of the other.
There also «seal fat». Since yesterday we can't sell it anywhere else. Might as well use it. We could also us seal fur as camo on the Power Armors. You USers (as opposed to Americans) would never see us coming !
The perfect Power Armor transport. Needs a few upgrades....
http://www.spaceshipsrentals.co.nz/new-zealand-campervan-rental/
There also «seal fat». Since yesterday we can't sell it anywhere else. Might as well use it. We could also us seal fur as camo on the Power Armors. You USers (as opposed to Americans) would never see us coming !
My gods, man, would you like to fuel our tanks with little-girls' tears, too?
My gods, man, would you like to fuel our tanks with little-girls' tears, too?
The cute «little girls» will REALLY cry when they learn that the «cute little seal» have eaten all the «cute little fishes» in the Northern Atlantic and the eco-system is in upevil.
Hunting is a form of farming you know. Its called ressources management. Which WE should continue doing because WE have killed all the natural predators. ;)
The cute «little girls» will REALLY cry when they learn that the «cute little seal» have eaten all the «cute little fishes» in the Northern Atlantic and the eco-system is in upevil.
Hunting is a form of farming you know. Its called ressources management. Which WE should continue doing because WE have killed all the natural predators. ;)
Aren't orca's a natural predator of seals?
Heh, compared to what they do to the poor suckers, we're merciful. >_>
Should we make another thread before this one is completely derailed?
Global Warming is gonna break up the ice and drown al the orcas
Aren't orca's a natural predator of seals?
Heh, compared to what they do to the poor suckers, we're merciful. >_>
I'm no expert but I think illegal whale fishing by the Japanese in the North Atlantic has put a serious dent into the Orca population. Another aspect of this complex issue...
PowerArmor is a natural predator of seals, so it will work out in the end
Once we get a few toxic spills of fancy armor and fancy power core materials,
we wont have any seals left to worry about
... we are gonna ship the armor off to china for a leadpaint camo job, right?
Should we make another thread before this one is completely derailed?
LOL ... no need Backstabbist just put it back on track !
with baby seal fired boiler backpacks,
we will still need to take them for a smog check before we can register / renew the plates on them
This will lead to Hybrids of the baby seal fired boiler backpacks,
that most the time are powered by those seals running on a treadmill to power the mech,
but tossed in the furnace for those extra boosts of steamy power
baby seals have worse marksmanship than Stormtroopers
Besides,
the Armor Penalty to their lil baby SwimChecks would be horrible
The only practical application of that concept would be as anti-shipping highspeed Sealpedos
Oh and DARPA put a laser on a 747 to see if putting a laser on a plane was even possible, so that someday we could arm jet fighters with laser cannons.
Why a plane and not towers?
Right now lasers shoot down missiles by melting a hole into the side causing the fuel tank to explode.... you can only do that during the launch phase... once the warhead is dropping onto you, you are screwed.
once the warhead is dropping onto you, you are screwed.
Not entirely true. Assuming that the equpiment to detect altitude is housed in the fuselage, this equipment (which is used to trigger the detonation at the altitude that provdes maximum effect) will not cause the warhead to detonate. And since nuclear weapons are not designed to detonatoe on impact, all you have to worry about the the fissionable material having a "dirty-bomb" effect on the area where the warhead hits the ground. If the warhead is sufficiently strong however, this may even be averted.
Not entirely true. Assuming that the equpiment to detect altitude is housed in the fuselage, this equipment (which is used to trigger the detonation at the altitude that provdes maximum effect) will not cause the warhead to detonate. And since nuclear weapons are not designed to detonatoe on impact, all you have to worry about the the fissionable material having a "dirty-bomb" effect on the area where the warhead hits the ground. If the warhead is sufficiently strong however, this may even be averted.
apparently you and I have very different definitions of "screwed"...;) :P :D
"Yeah, I hear ya... them "InertPractice" ICBMs are just not safe no matter how much blue paint they put on the nose"
ok, all this chat is fun,
but it aint getting Titanium bolted onto any Seals
What if we issue each power armor troop a 12km spool of cable,
and just leave them 'plugged in' at the base while ther walk around the AO?
Why do all applications of PowerArmor seem to be a 'cordless' design?
Power armor all the way.... Delta Six Accelerator Suits
http://www.gijoemovie.com/
Have you seen the G.I. Joe movie trailer? Saw it last night.
Power armor all the way.... Delta Six Accelerator Suits
http://www.gijoemovie.com/
I, for one, am pretending I didn't.
I, for one, am pretending I didn't.
Yay for more over the top action movies.
Call me biased, but I think my favorite implementation of powered armor in fiction was the Spartan II's in the Haloverse. Their big, designed for giant super-people, and if you aren't a giant super-person... well... you best not be putting the suit on. >_<
Call me biased, but I think my favorite implementation of powered armor in fiction was the Spartan II's in the Haloverse. Their big, designed for giant super-people, and if you aren't a giant super-person... well... you best not be putting the suit on. >_<
*COUGH*BlantantripoffofWarhammer40kSpaceMarines*COUGH*
That swine flu's goin' around...
*COUGH*BlantantripoffofWarhammer40kSpaceMarines*COUGH*
That swine flu's goin' around...
Read the lore of both games and reply again. ;) Spartan II's are a whole different beast from SM behemoths.
Spartians are genetically modified super soldiers in power armor.
They have different window dressings, but its the same window regardless.
For my money, the most accurate depiction of power armor was the exoskeleton Ripley donned in the second alien movie. That is how I personally envision power armor breaking into public life. Just imagine a few of those at a construction site, or tearing down a condemened residential building, or "armed" with mining or forestry equipment.
What about E-Frames from Exo Squad?
This needs to be made into a campaign setting.
What about E-Frames from Exo Squad?
This needs to be made into a campaign setting.
I've never seen Exo Squad. Ripley is still the truest adaptation of power armor that I've seen. Not that there aren't cooler examples, like the MOSPEADA.
I've never seen Exo Squad.
Thats a shame. Its probably one of the best parts of my childhood. :P
You might be able to find some episodes online, for a 90s kids' cartoon that was created alongside a toy line it actually had a fairly deep plot and sometimes dealt with more "adult" issues.
I think the term "archetype" is more appropriate than "blatant ripoff" in this case... though they hardly match the same archetype either. Space Marines aren't exactly uncommon, and their hotblooded character is a far cry from the Spartan II's cold killer mentality... Barring Deathwatch, of course.
Erhem, powered armor...
It'll be included in a game I'm going to run for my friend and his pals in ND. They'll probably not be using it, the armor is only accessible by selected teams in special forces, but they will see it in action.
So by that logic, all badass gunslingers who use revolvers are rip-offs of Dirty Harry. I'll remember that. :P
Actually, all badass gunslingers who use revolvers are rip-offs of The Man with No Name. :P
I think the term "archetype" is more appropriate than "blatant ripoff" in this case... though they hardly match the same archetype either. Space Marines aren't exactly uncommon, and their hotblooded character is a far cry from the Spartan II's cold killer mentality... Barring Deathwatch, of course.
I was just being silly.
And by the fluff Space Marines aren't really common either, there are only a few thousand per chapter. The Ultramarines are one of the biggest chapters with something around 4,000 marines. Most average 1k-2k at the most.
Doesn't make sense at all, all things considered, but I never said the Warhammer writers were GOOD writers. :P
Erhem, powered armor...
It'll be included in a game I'm going to run for my friend and his pals in ND. They'll probably not be using it, the armor is only accessible by selected teams in special forces, but they will see it in action.
I did that with a Space Opera type campaign. Be careful, as it'll want the players to want suits of their own all the more. ;)
Actually, all badass gunslingers who use revolvers are rip-offs of The Man with No Name. :P
Blast, you win...
I was just being silly.
Yeah, realized that about half-way through my post (hooray for post-movie-going dumbness). I didn't want to delete everything, though. :P
And by the fluff Space Marines aren't really common either, there are only a few thousand per chapter. The Ultramarines are one of the biggest chapters with something around 4,000 marines. Most average 1k-2k at the most.
Doesn't make sense at all, all things considered, but I never said the Warhammer writers were GOOD writers. :P
Are we counting scouts and devastators as space marines, or are they not space marines until they become Tactical Marines?
I agree, though. Even by the fluff it doesn't make sense. At least in Halo it's justified by "You're too damned expensive to make".
I suppose that the ridiculousness of making chapters so small is offset by the fact that there are countless chapters, though...
Funny thought: The Covenant actually resemble the Emperium of Man more than the humans in Halo do. Elites are the SM; everyone else fits into the IG.
I did that with a Space Opera type campaign. Be careful, as it'll want the players to want suits of their own all the more. ;)
Yeah, I figure it'll happen in my game, too. I'm hoping I can get away with it, though, as it's only going to be a two-session game, maybe three.
If they want me to lengthen it to a full campaign and play-by-post when I return home, THEN I'll see about giving them powered armor...
Thanks for the tip, though.
Actually, all badass gunslingers who use revolvers are rip-offs of The Man with No Name
wasnt he just a ripoff of Josey Wales?
I mean, Josey Wales didnt have to hide behind armor... he would have had Ramon whistling Dixie
but shouldnt we go with the non-exaggerated actions of fictional chars, ;)
over the inflated tales of actual folks
right?
besides, I dont think wild west guys could make Sealpedos or any other decent power armor
Yay for more over the top action movies.
Call me biased, but I think my favorite implementation of powered armor in fiction was the Spartan II's in the Haloverse. Their big, designed for giant super-people, and if you aren't a giant super-person... well... you best not be putting the suit on. >_<
Leading Edge Games had a saying about making big power armor / mechs
"Giant robots make giant targets"
The ogre sized guy in gigantic power armor is a far easier to hit target
than a BioMod-Cyber-BabySeal power armor troop, or a Sealpedo, or Guided-misSeal
http://www.kimgrahamstudios.com/gal-legs.html
They really need the added height and landspeed, cause their little flippers just wont cut it on the battlefield