My question: Do we add our ranks in Profession when rolling the initial d20 versus our previous wealth bonus as our DC or are ranks in Profession only taken into account after the check is resolved such as the example in the book?
Because according to the book example, when they calculate the character Yoriko's (p. 70) new wealth bonus they do NOT add her ranks in profession to the initial die result of 16, they only added the "+1" due to having 5 ranks in profession after the Profession check is resolved. So in retrospect her previous wealth bonus was +5, making her DC 5. She rolled a 16 (which is 11 over her DC) so she adds +1 for succeeding the roll, +2 for beating her DC by 11, and +1 for having 5 ranks in Profession, for a grand total of +4 to her wealth bonus which is now +9. Now if the ranks were added TO HER result of 16 making it 21 it would then make her new wealth bonus +10 which is not what the book states (+5 was her original wealth bonus, +1 for succeeding roll, +3 for beating her die roll by 16, +1 for 5 ranks in Profession)
So which is it?
I always go by the Level Advancement list on page 39 of the CRB. On that list, skill point allocation comes before the Profession check for additional Wealth (the last step.) So I say the Profession check should be after every other part of levelling-up is done.
I understand that, but that isnt my initial question, not trying to be rude, just trying to end a weekend-long debate amongst my gaming crew
We have had a number of d20 modern characters incredibly rich by lvl 6 because when they roll their Profession check they have been adding the ranks to the d20 die roll AND adding the bonus determined by # of ranks as well. Which according to the book example on p.70 is incorrect.
Edit: never mind! I see the problem. They were adding the Profession check, and then adding it again with the Rank increase. Ignore me...
The only alternative I can see is you get to add your ranks in profession during the initial d20 roll after attaining a new level, but only the die result counts for determining how much "over" you went to also determine how much extra you wealth from the chart.
A character makes Profession checks to improve his or
her Wealth bonus every time he or she attains a new level. The
DC for the check is the character’s current Wealth bonus. If the
character succeeds at the Profession check, his or her Wealth
bonus increases by +1.
This just says "a Profession check," with total ranks and Wisdom bonus included, as far as I can tell. You make that DC, you get +1 to your Wealth score.
For every 5 by which the character
exceeds the DC, his or her Wealth bonus increases by an
additional +1. A character can’t take 10 or take 20 when making
a Profession check to improve his or her Wealth bonus.
This continues from the last thing. You get an additional +1 for ever 5 points by which the Profession roll accedes the DC.
How many ranks a character has in the Profession skill
(including ranks the character may have just acquired after
gaining a level) also adds to the Wealth bonus increase the
character receives upon gaining a new level. In addition to the
Wealth bonus increase a character gains from your Profession
check result (if the check succeeds), the number of ranks the
character has in this skill increases his or her Wealth bonus as
follows.
Finally, as a separate step, you get +1 to your Wealth for every full 5 ranks of the Profession skill you have.
So:
+1 for rolling above your Wealth score.
+1 for every 5 points by which you accede your Wealth score on that roll
+1 for every 5 Ranks in Profession
All three counted separately. I think that's the whole process, yes?
So:
+1 for rolling above your Wealth score.
+1 for every 5 points by which you accede your Wealth score on that roll
+1 for every 5 Ranks in Profession
All three counted separately. I think that's the whole process, yes?
This is correct. Yay for reading the rules!
This just says "a Profession check," with total ranks and Wisdom bonus included, as far as I can tell. You make that DC, you get +1 to your Wealth score.
This is where alot of people are getting confused. Because in the book's example they did NOT add Yorikos 5 ranks in Profession to her die result of 16 when determining how much she went OVER her DC. Had they done that her wealth wouldve been higher then what the book states because she wouldve went over by 15, so thats +1 for succeeding the roll, +3 for going over by 16, and +1 for having 5 ranks, for a total of +5 but the book did NOT give her +5 instead gave her +4.
This continues from the last thing. You get an additional +1 for ever 5 points by which the Profession roll accedes the DC.
Yes, but in the book's example they did NOT take into account Yoriko's 5 ranks in Profession for determining how much she went OVER the die result of 16. They only used her 5 ranks in Profession to determine the additional +1 she got after succeeding in her Profession check.
Needless to say I am confused once again. Perhaps the book misprinted? Why did the book not give her ranks in profession to the die result of 16, which would've made it a total of 21, making it 16 over her initial dc, in turn giving her +3 bonus just for going 16 over the DC
The second example then posits that that 16 was (partially) the result of having 5 Ranks in Profession, as well as the d20 roll and perhaps a high Wisdom score. In fact, I'd guess that they left the Ranks out of the first example because they didn't want to confuse the issue. They did not succeed.
The problem here is that they keep trying to write in a pseudo-sophisticated manner and they just end up being unclear. I don't mean to sound like a know-it-all, but I'm a writer for a living and I teach essay-writing as well, so the problems with Wizards' writing are pretty clear to me. They could have gotten around all of this by explaining the concept behind the rule as well as explaining how it works mechanically. Observe:
Every time you level up, you have a chance to increase your Wealth bonus. This happens in two steps. First, you get +1 to your Wealth for having Ranks in the Profession skill. If you have any Ranks at all in Profession, you automatically get at least a +1 to your Wealth every time you level up. You get an extra +1 for every 5 Ranks you have in the Profession skill (see table).
Second, you roll a Profession check, the DC of which equals your Wealth score. You make this check after having allocated your Skill points for that level. If you meet the DC on this Profession check, you get a +1 to your Wealth. For every 5 points by which you accede the DC, you get another +1.
Clearer now?
NB: Just in case anyone cares, there are two ways to make RPG manuals a lot clearer. First, use the second person, "you." It eliminates wordy constructions like "your character" and it's always clear who you're talking about, because you don't ever get lost in masculine/feminine distinctions. Second, never never never use the passive voice. Your sentences should always be "subject + verb (+ object)," never "(object +) verb + subject." You can tell when you've screwed that up because there's an extra verb in the sentence, usually "to be." So passive voice is "He was killed by a runaway train." Active voice is "A runaway train killed him." Notice how the second sentence eliminates the superfluous verb "to be," and it's actually in causal order. The first sentence inverts the causality, first we get the man, then the action, then the thing that did the action. The English language is so much clearer when it's in the active voice. It's just an amazing difference. Listen to yourself and see how much you use the active voice and how much you use the passive. You'll be shocked at how often you invert causality. It's just how most of us talk in English, but it's way less clear than the alternative.
Aide Another Skill check:
"Ok Jimmy, I'll hold the grenade pin while you put the mayonaise on the weasle"
"Ok Jimmy, I'll hold the grenade pin..."
"I" - subject, "will" - verb, "grenade pin" - object
"while" - coordinating conjunction between clauses
"you put the mayonaise on the weasle"
"you" - subject, "put" - verb, "mayonaise" and "weasle" - two objects
(I know you were joking, but I couldn't help it.)
Every time you level up, you have a chance to increase your Wealth bonus. This happens in two steps. First, you get +1 to your Wealth for having Ranks in the Profession skill. If you have any Ranks at all in Profession, you automatically get at least a +1 to your Wealth every time you level up. You get an extra +1 for every 5 Ranks you have in the Profession skill (see table).
Second, you roll a Profession check, the DC of which equals your Wealth score. You make this check after having allocated your Skill points for that level. If you meet the DC on this Profession check, you get a +1 to your Wealth. For every 5 points by which you accede the DC, you get another +1.
The problem with this, is that you're doing it out of order.
Step One - Profession Check (+1 Wealth for DC and every 5 points above DC)
Step Two - Profession Ranks (+1 Wealth for every 5 ranks in Profession)
The difference is perhaps only 1 point, but when it comes to wealth, that single point can matter.
I'm not seeing how the order can make a difference. You work with the same total ranks either way, and you apply the results to your existing Wealth score either way. Can to explain to me what difference it makes to do one first and the other second?
The difference is if you apply the bonus wealth from having ranks first, that raises the DC for your Profession check. It's better for the player to make the check at a lower DC, take that wealth, and then apply more wealth from having Profession ranks.