Does everyone here use the modern day Deities or do gods factor in more than character background? I'd like to see if anyone has anything a little more creative.
I'm not sure where I would go after that. I would have to do some research into Catholicism (unrepentant pagan here!), but it just seems like a fascinating idea: a man of God who can proove it.
I'd rather this not turn into who is/isn't real and something a little more constructive s'il vous plait.
Does everyone here use the modern day Deities or do gods factor in more than character background? I'd like to see if anyone has anything a little more creative.
Different religions as allegiences for characters is a definite option.
-DF
Now, some might argue that that's because polytheism is just easier to deal with in a fantasy setting, and I think there's some truth to that. A multiplicity of gods is also highly conventional; it goes back to Tolkien, who basically invented fantasy as we know it in the 20th century. Others might argue that you can't make up stats for a singular godhead because he/she/it is all-powerful, so no numbers would apply, but there are various deities that have comparably non-quantifiable abilities and who do get statted out. Any trickster god--Monkey, Raven, Nanabush, Anansi, Loki--is by nature able to defy logic and rationality.
So my point is that I don't think they've shied away from depicting modern, currently-worshipped gods. They've shied away from depicting those gods that our culture treats with reverence, as opposed to all the silly religions from outside the West/Mid-East. I'm not accusing Wizards of anything, or you Rhialto. It was either do this or depict only their own made-up gods. Still, it does indicate a certain cultural attitude toward which religions our society presumes to be worthy of respect and which it doesn't.
http://www.somethingawful.com/d/news/wtf-deities-demigods.php
-DF
Lots of thoughtful stuff.
So a short way of saying what you're saying is that they know their audience (and probably don't wanna be slapped with the satanic label again.)
That said, I don't think greater gods should have stats, especially in modern no/low magic games. At least in western culture, the only observable thing they do is perform the occasional (perhaps more than occasional) miracle. Deities in western religions kinda untouchable and choose to only gently grace the world for X, Y, or Z small reasons that mean a lot to little people.
I'd presume that many religious people would argue that the effects of their God are more personal than massive (at least as of until a little less than 2 millenniums [that really doesn't feel right; isn't it supposed to be millenia?] ago.)
That's the viewpoint of a strange denominational hybrid, anyway.
What we call miracles today would be total deus ex machina in a d20 campaign...
However, I think that all "major" divine activity coming to an end roughly 2 millenia (I'll use it even though Firefox says I'm wrong) ago might be a really cool plot point. I've used it in a couple of my campaigns and it's working well so far.
@ Azisen - That sounds like "Too Human".
@ Azisen - That sounds like "Too Human".
Yes, it actually would be!
Though, I had this idea years before Too Human released (not before they were developing, though, considering they did it for...7 years?)
I took my inspiration from a two novels, Ilium and Olympos, which are fictions loosely based on Homer's Iliad. 23rd and 24th century humanity, bored with being...well...human, turn themselves into the Greek gods and start trying to act out Homer's Iliad. Hilarity ensues. It's one of my dream d20 modern/future settings.
Maybe if this thread is still visible in May, I will dust off my d20 books and try statting.
Well.
http://www.somethingawful.com/d/news/wtf-deities-demigods.php
-DF
Ah. Memories.... ;) :P :D
As far as statting out deities...
I've always been of the opinion that they don't need Stats. No Mortal can ever kill a God in any of my games...
That being said, I really like the 3'rd edition Deities and Demigods where they came up with Salient Divine Abilities.
My favorite was one called "Alter Reality". The deity could simply "make so" whatever it wanted...
I remember all kinds of debates about how to kill a God, and I'd always point to Alter Reality and the fact that gods were aware of everything around them within 1 mile, and 1 hour forward or backwards in time (per divine rank).
So the would be god killers decide to attack the god, but the god knows about it so that as soon as the party appears, it uses a readied action to turn them into marshmallows. Mmmmm.... I like marshmallows.
But I digress.
The book also had stats for a Monothiestic Deity and a Dualistic "Pantheon" that could easily represent any of the modern monotheistic faiths...
I think I'd like the setting you're describing if I didn't hate the Iliad with the fiery passion of a thousand suns.
It's no fault of the book. I just chose to procrastinate until one day before my 5-page paper on it was due. I read that tome in 8 hours and my brain hurt.
Got a B on the paper, though.
Ah. Memories.... ;) :P :D
As far as statting out deities...
I've always been of the opinion that they don't need Stats. No Mortal can ever kill a God in any of my games...
I guess the d20 Future twist introduces the idea that the gods are not true immortal beings, they are just hyper-advanced organisms, perfectly mortal like anything else in the universe. It's interesting food for thought in real life philosophical discussions, but more importantly, it lets a 20th level party fight ZEUS, KING OF THE GODS!
And probably die.
I think I'd like the setting you're describing if I didn't hate the Illiad with the fiery passion of a thousand suns.
You know, I wasn't terribly impressed by the Iliad either. I thought it was good, but I also read it over a longer period of time compared to you. However, I might suggest checking out the setting, just because it's written MUCH differently from Homer's version. The author was Dan Brown.
I guess the d20 Future twist introduces the idea that the gods are not true immortal beings, they are just hyper-advanced organisms, perfectly mortal like anything else in the universe. It's interesting food for thought in real life philosophical discussions, but more importantly, it lets a 20th level party fight ZEUS, KING OF THE GODS!
And probably die.
Actually that sounds like a cool idea...
is not that Aliens are what Earthers worship as gods,
but finding out about the gods those aliens worship as divine
..... thats a Spicey Meatball
So a short way of saying what you're saying is that they know their audience (and probably don't wanna be slapped with the satanic label again.)
Pretty much, yeah. I'm not the best at brevity. Six years of grad school will do that to a guy.
That said, I don't think greater gods should have stats, especially in modern no/low magic games. At least in western culture, the only observable thing they do is perform the occasional (perhaps more than occasional) miracle. Deities in western religions kinda untouchable and choose to only gently grace the world for X, Y, or Z small reasons that mean a lot to little people.
True, and that is another reason why few would bother statting them out. But angels and demons constantly roam the world. They could have stats. Heck, medieaval thinkers came up with vast and complex systems of naming and identifying various kinds of demons and devils (oh those wacky medieavals). I've always wanted to do a game that actually recreates the rebellion in Heaven. Angel-vs.-angel, and maybe this time Lucifer wins? Sacrilege I know (quite literally!), but it could be a lot of fun.
What we call miracles today would be total deus ex machina in a d20 campaign...
I actually think a lot of divine spells are based on what we know as "miracles" from the Christian Bible: making food, healing the sick, returning the dead to life, all that kind of stuff.
However, I think that all "major" divine activity coming to an end roughly 2 millenia (I'll use it even though Firefox says I'm wrong) ago might be a really cool plot point. I've used it in a couple of my campaigns and it's working well so far.
That's an interesting notion! Once the Enlightenment arrived, the Western world essentially "killed" its gods and spirits, making way for Rationalism and Industrialisation. I like the symbolism.
Depends on whether you want a pseudo-scientific explanation that pulls gods down to mortal level, or if you want to retain the mystery and untouchably immortal quality of the actual gods of various mythologies. That there is almost the difference between SF and fantasy, really.
Deep baritone voice «Indeed» Teal'c says
Joke aside. Personally I can't reconcile «fantastical mystical gods» with a Modern setting. I NEED a pseudo-scientific explanation to satisfy the hard core atheist in me. Even the Gods in my D&D campaigns have stats, powers and they can be killed by Heroes. Which in turn makes them demi-gods. But that's just me...
A question comes to mind : Where do you put the Chtuluh mythology?
SF or Fantasy
Then there is the Stargate option, which is just as fun.
OM NOM NOM!
Joke aside. Personally I can't reconcile «fantastical mystical gods» with a Modern setting. I NEED a pseudo-scientific explanation to satisfy the hard core atheist in me. Even the Gods in my D&D campaigns have stats, powers and they can be killed by Heroes. Which in turn makes them demi-gods. But that's just me...
The closer I get to atheism (I'm still clinging to agnostic myself), the more I'm interested, and willing, to play posit stories where the gods are real. My philosophy for D&D is that they're all real. Even the ones that claim each other aren't real. Even the ones whose existence would logically preclude each other (e.g., a singular godhead existing in the same universe as a pantheon). Anyone who points out that contradiction has to grapple with the very same uncertainties as people in the real world do. I'm not a fan of allowing my fantasies to hand-wave real-world problems out of existence. It's much more fun to import those problems into the fantasy and have a nice, big thought experiment about it.
A question comes to mind : Where do you put the Chtuluh mythology?
SF or Fantasy
Entirely depends on how you define SF/fantasy. There are libraries written on that problem.
istr there was a thread for planescape a while back about what modern day gods would exist. Not real world deities, but rather, the primal forces that push and pull us in our daily lives, such as communications, terror, marketing, and so forth.
Very appealing idea. I'm taking notes. Tks
part of this was revealed by an old man to the players.
he always was and always will be
when the tide of shadow recceded, he backed off.
As they began to figure things out for themselves, it was not easy for them, attaining knowlage and wisdom never is, but he stood back and applauded them like a proud father, and ensured no Lessers would interfeer in their lives.
Mortal troubles were made by mortal men and solved by mortal men
and it was good
The tide of shadow has begun to return, bringing alien Magic, peoples, and gods with it and the maker of this world stands by the law, he created The Veil to were not ready to see.
"God, Alah, Yewah, Maker" god by any other name is still god
Creation God
Domains: all with the exception of Evil and Tyrany
Power: Immesurible
Outlook: Distant, proud of man's accomplishments.
Agenda: assisting mortals mundane humans especally, maintaining the Law of Free Will, making the world a better place in general.
Allies: none, but will toletate good gods
Herald: Saint (CL 20)
special traits: cannot be destroyed, if you were to kill off all his worshipers, he will not fade away or dissipated.
will assist in quiet ways "if you do it right, they won't be sure you've done anything at all"
we had an avout athiest try and question an angel, it was helarious watching it. "why do you allow such suffering in the world?" (he expected me to give a biblical response) "if the maker removed all pain what would happen? do you blame your father because he "let" you skin your knee, or was it your fault for trying to pull a new trick of the half pipe with out kneepads?"
Anyhow, one "pantheon" went to war with itself, collapsed its dimension, and created the Shadow.The Shadow went on to collapse and merge all of the other sub-dimensions and is now hungry for the prime plain.
or maybe something more like... there are real gods and everything we "know" about all our human gods and how the world works is wrong! (DUH DUH DUH!)
i dunno, im just trying to do some brainstorming here to come up with something to blow my party members minds
Thanks, that was more of the sort of input i was looking for. if anyone uses Christian/judeo god, how do you treat it? does anyone actually have something to do with angels and demons, possession, miracles, and what the existence of these things in the world means in the big picture?
I was looking at doing a Modern Fantasy (Shadowrun but without the William Gibson stuff) and the most logical solution I could come up has been voiced above, allow everything and let the people decide what is divine and what is trickery.
Angels exist, but they are only angels if they are based in YOUR church, otherwise they are demons masquerading as angels (the other religions feel the same way).
This solution means that everybody can be right or wrong, and even atheists can see that if angels and demons etc exist to all religions (even those that are mutually exclusive) then they can dismiss them as something else masquerading as divine beings.
Dealing with monotheistic gods in terms of mechanics is not too bad, because although an all powerful creator deities has every divine domain conceivable, the actual religious groups themselves assign their own values and have their own ideas on the situation.
The solution therefore is simple, monotheistic clergy must still chose domains, but rather than the domains representing the spheres of influence that deity has, they represent the characters personal interpretation of that deity, thus one Christian cleric (who wears Sandals but no socks, and carries around a guitar and tambourine) may have the Good, Healing, Protection domains, while a hard faced firebrand preacher may have Law, Strength and Exorcism.
As far as a pseudo-science explanation goes, you can say that researchers have a theory that this universe has become joined with a universe where sentience has a profound effect, a universe made up of strange malleable energy, which has begun leaking through into this universe, this energy while not sentient in itself is able to absorb sentience from the beliefs, thoughts and feelings of other sentient beings, and so if people start to believe in Jack Frost, this energy begins to mimic the concept of Jack Frost eventually becoming semi sentient (and believing he really is Jack Frost), this works the same for all the other mythological figures (even ones that belong to mythologies in which people still believe).