| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
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| #1chonenFeb 19, 2010 14:20:48 | Reputation and wealth are serving to be problems for me because they are so abstract. Reputation seems like something that should be RP and skill check based. I kind of want to just not include it in my game, but I worry if that hinders classes like the Charismatic hero who gets a low Defense bonus but a high reputation bonus. The Wealth system makes alot of sense, but is also kind of confusing. Especially fo me to explain to people that are even newer to Modern than I am. Such as for items DC: 14 and below if your Wealth is equal to or greater that the DC you can automatically buy it without mlowering your Wealth bonus. I suppose I should realistically limit my PCs potential "shopping sprees." Reminds me of a player in D&D who jokingly purchased 999 quarterstaves because they were listed as 0 gp. -Trying again on failed wealth checks requires more time. But does this also mean that they are hunting for better deals? How are they able to afford it by trying again an hour or two later? -Can action points be used for Wealth checks? -Is it simpler to just go by the dollar values listed on p.204 of the Core Rulebook? Or would you run out of money too quickly this way? |
| #2TheRealOrionFeb 19, 2010 16:40:57 | Wealth is a wierd concept, but once you get it, it makes a lot of sense intuitively (although not logically). The system as written has some, shall we say, "exploits" and some abitrariness that doesn't help in a game with actual people. Perhaps this house-ruled Wealth system will help? We came up with a bunch of these rules a few months ago and I put them in Phoenix. To answer your actual questions: p36 of the CRB (Core Rule Book) states that you can use an Action Point on attacks, skill/ability checks, level checks, and saving throws. Wealth roles are not inclueded, but as GM, you can override that ruling if you decide that Wealth qualifies as an "ability" in the game, on par with BA or high Skill bonuses. Trying again on a Wealth check means that you didn't find the object you wanted at a price you can afford in the given slot of time. Imagine you head downtown to hit a couple of malls, and you're looking for a particular kind of sports shoe (or whatever). You spend two hours but you can't find it, at least not at the price that your wallet can handle. Then, you sit down on your computer and keep hunting, and this time you find a tiny little store on the edge of town that's getting rid of its stock to prepare for Christmas. You spend another hour on transit finding the place, and now you have your shoes. That's what rolling again means, and the time spent on Wealth checks is a major limiting factor. Don't just let players roll their checks over and over again and fudge it as "down time." If they want to do anything with their down time other than trolling malls, then they have to keep track. It is decidedly not simpler to just use dollar values. First, the values in the CRB are very approximate. They lack the granular accuracy to simulate actula money. Second, once you factor in credit cards, over-draft, loans, haggling, in-store discounts, season sales, etc. etc. etc., Wealth actually ends up being simpler. It's one number, and it means that you don't have to do the math every time your PC buys lunch or fills her tank. Plug a couple of the loopholes, and Wealth actually works quite well. |
| #3narukagamiFeb 20, 2010 0:55:04 | Ah, d20 Accounting. :P Its a joke we used in days of yore to describe what a d20 Modern game would become if you tried to simulate modern economics in game, its the essence of what the wealth system is trying to avoid. Sure, the system is FAR from perfect and needs revision, but its one of the better alternatives. Orion pretty well covered everything I could say about the issue. The thing about reputation score is that it comes into play during RP and skill checks. Specifically, its a bonus to your checks in a situation where your rep could possibly come into play (using various bonuses and penalties depending on how close or far relations from your main "in group" the NPC has). For example, your party has a reputation for trying to clean up the streets and take down the city's various warring gangs. Someone who may have only heard of some vigilantes cleaning up the streets would only allow maybe half the character's rep bonus to come into play during interaction, while a thug from one of the gangs you just busted the skulls of, who knows your face and purpose, would allow full rep to be used when intimidating. (If not even more of a bonus.) Meanwhile, your reputation probably wouldn't come into play at all when haggling with the grandma at the mom and pop grocery store 5 counties over who is oblivious to anything that's not gossip she heared from her saturday quilting club. Or something like that, I don't have my books handy, and the section on reputation bonus describes it much better. By all means I feel that RP should have a heavier impact on the overall score a character has than their level does, but it grows with level under the assumption that the characters are gaining these levels by doing stuff. The Charismatic hero gains the highest Reputation bonuses under the assumption that he is the party face, the one doing all the dealing, the mingling, and the talking, and is thus the more recognizable one. |
| #4backstabbistFeb 20, 2010 11:38:02 | Again with the d20 Accounting bashing? ![]() Its not like we are asking players to learn some fantasy system of balances and transaction cause & effect.... its like we ask people in reality to understand the real world that affevts them directly. Maybe if more folks played a few nights of d20 Accounting we wouldnt have americans signing up for 73.9% credit cards (yes, read it couple nights ago.. they really are selling 73% and folks take it) Remember, just because it is Modern dont make it absolute verbaitm reality .... your campaign can easily have Kobalds with AKs but CreditCards and RamenNoodles dont exist |
| #5TheRealOrionFeb 20, 2010 14:58:32 | I can never quite tell when you're joking, backstabbist, so I'm going to answer that post as if it were sincere. ;) It's not inconsistent to say "I want my game to hyper-focus on some elements and abstract other elements." d20 hyperfocuses on combat because that's what they think we want (and they're not entirely wrong!); likewise, it abstracts Wealth and social-interaction because that's what they think we don't care about (and they're not entirely wrong about that, either). That's not inconsistent; that's prioritising. |