Suppose a PC owned a gun/military surplus store. Of course, using guns from inventory would be a bad idea, but what about using the ammo? Is there any way of tracing a spent round to the store at which it was bought?
So yes, the cops could build a pretty good circumstantial case.
Also, how are serial-numbered bullets 'safer'?
where the PCs own a gunshop
If they PCs run amuck shooting up the place, and want to use ammo from the shop, just use a calibre that the PC have sold many boxes of to the public. As such, if the cops come to the shop asking if anyone bought any .427Qmag Duplex Tracer, you say "Yes, we sell a few boxes of that almost every day." Then play the security tape of the guys buying it up, you of course dont have any names or whatnot, because we dont register ammo sales (stupid LA gunshow laws)
Clearly I just demonstrated that you wont have any tape of customers buying .427Qmag Duplex Tracer, cause nobody shoots anything that exotic. But if the PCs use 9mm Ball/HP & 308HP they will have dozens of customers buying that ammo to show the police, and the cops wont bother trying to figure out that you use it too.
Look into Barstow drop-in barrels for your shooting irons.
Sure the gun leaves rifling marks on the bullet, but it is actually the barrel that makes those cuts. You just buy a few 'Upgrade' barrels for your pistols, and every time you shoot some fool strip the gun & leave the barrel on the floor next to the body. I'm sure the police will appreciate you saving them the time of looking for someone with that barrel in their gun. Every day your gun can have new rifling, never matching any previously shot slugs the cops find.
There are some laws that people are attempting to pass that would make ammo be serialized, but these are the same kind of people as Ted Stevens. The kind of people that know absolutely nothing about something they are in charge of, all a serial number would do is give the guys something to do while waiting, filing the numbers off the ammo. Or your criminal characters could just go to ranges and pick up brass that gets left behind, with common calibers you would get dozens of different people getting accused, with nothing common besides shooting at the same range. Then start making bets on how long it takes for the police to figure out that the ammo serializing isn't helping them.
For the game aspect,
where the PCs own a gunshop
If they PCs run amuck shooting up the place, and want to use ammo from the shop, just use a calibre that the PC have sold many boxes of to the public. As such, if the cops come to the shop asking if anyone bought any .427Qmag Duplex Tracer, you say "Yes, we sell a few boxes of that almost every day." Then play the security tape of the guys buying it up, you of course dont have any names or whatnot, because we dont register ammo sales (stupid LA gunshow laws)
Clearly I just demonstrated that you wont have any tape of customers buying .427Qmag Duplex Tracer, cause nobody shoots anything that exotic. But if the PCs use 9mm Ball/HP & 308HP they will have dozens of customers buying that ammo to show the police, and the cops wont bother trying to figure out that you use it too.
Look into Barstow drop-in barrels for your shooting irons.
Sure the gun leaves rifling marks on the bullet, but it is actually the barrel that makes those cuts. You just buy a few 'Upgrade' barrels for your pistols, and every time you shoot some fool strip the gun & leave the barrel on the floor next to the body. I'm sure the police will appreciate you saving them the time of looking for someone with that barrel in their gun. Every day your gun can have new rifling, never matching any previously shot slugs the cops find.
You are way too smart for your own good!:D
But I definitely want you on my team!
Have a wonderful day!
Or your criminal characters could just go to ranges and pick up brass that gets left behind, with common calibers you would get dozens of different people getting accused
That is the Re-Sabot Trick
Buy a 357mag revolver. If you shoot some mook with it your .358" 125gr bullet will have the rifling from that barrel. The Smart6/Strong10/Fast4 criminal will go to the range, and dig out shot slugs after some AK guy shoots the place up. These are .312-ish diameter 123gr with AK rifling on them. You then slip the .312 used slug into an empty .38 RatShot capsule and load up your 357 with saboted used .312 bullets. The revolver dont know the difference, because it is shooting a full power 125-ish grain projectile like any other 125gr 357 load. Next mook you shoot with your 357 will have a .312 AK-rifling-cut slug in him. Will the cops look for a 357pistolero or will they be looking for SKS-Joe to match the .312 123gr AK bullet with AK rifling cut in it.
Be sure to inspect & cull just the best used 312s out of all the slugs you pull from the dirt. You get some bent ones & the newspapers will call you the WhistlerKiller from all the funny noises coming from your bulltes wobbling thru the air.
"We need safer guns... safer bullets!"
d20 Future already gave us Safer Megaton Nukes, so we can scratch that one off the list.
Terjon-
I got the Sneavious Rat for an avatar for a reason.
Could you imagine me choosing the Sara Angel and posting like I do?
The name of the thread was based on a quote from a gun control advocate and, IIRC, a member of Bill Clinton's cabinet (I can't remember her name).
"We need safer guns... safer bullets!"
Was it Sarah "the laws don't apply to me" Brady?
Seriously, what the heck is a 'safer bullet'? Bullets aren't designed to be safe. They're designed to be deadly. That is the purpose. They are supposed to be accurate and damaging to tissue.
But that's a topic for another forum, I suppose.
By the way, good idea, stabbist. It reminds me of the Russian 'silent derringer' that fired 123-gr AK projectiles from special sealed, piston-driven cartridges. The gun itself had the same rifling pattern as an AK. It didn't automatically eject the empty shells. To the forensic pathologist, it looked like the target was hit by long-range lucky shots from an AK, when in reality he was probably shot from less than 10 feet away.
Guns are perfectly safe, as long as the person holding it knows how to use it. Actually, you don't even need someone holding it, it helps to not have one. Simply don't have the part that goes bang pointing at any parts that go squish.
Unless smart folks use Liar Bullets with disinformative rifling purposely left to throw of the physical inspections.
The nagant would have the faster rifling that pistols use for slower muzzle velocities. A detective would find a light .3" bullet with Nagant rifling, rather than finding an AK size & AK wt bullet with AK rifling marks....
well, that means an AK shot it, right?
Either the Derringer Johannixx mentioned or a quick check of the troops and we see the new guy on the security detail has an AK that fires AK size & Ak wt bullets with that same AK rifling pattern.... to bad that newbie didnt police up his slugs from the last time he was at the range.
You could even make a steel tube bullet-holder melee shiv to stab the guy, and it leaves the AK rifled 7.62AP bullet in the wound. The assumed low velocity from a way off stray would match low penetration, no hydroshock-crush cavity, and no burning... just like when the WhiteHouse was struck by a bullet: It is a dangerous city, sometimes bullets just fall out of the sky & hit things low velocity.
It kinda reminds me of a conversation I had recently. We came up with the idea of a knife with a built in cell phone that would dial 911 if it detected human blood.
Note: this was shorty after I had the end of my finger sown back on after a horrible sausage related accident.
Heck, my clumsy friend bought a cheapo harbor freight bowie knife, if it had that built in, 911 would have just given up on going to his house by now.
You can tell by a casing what caliber was fired.
You can take the casing and bullet fragments found at a scene and try to match them to a particular firearm through forensic analysis.
That assumes you find the weapon, of course.
Take all you want, but shoot all you take.
While there is no distinction put onto ammo,
if you are the only guy shooting .427Qmag Duplex Tracer in a 5 state radius, you can expect to get a knock on your door if some body shows up full of .427 burnt hole pairs in him. Custom is for competition, crime requires buying off the rack.
Yeah, stick with using icicles for a melee sneak attack. I am surprised the ice bullets myth got anywhere, the idea is you take something that is only solid due to cold, with very low density, and then light a blast of extremely high temperature high pressure gasses behind it?
but did they try frozen meat bullets?
but did they try frozen meat bullets?
I dunno, but they did try the sausage rocket fuel from Civil War fame... and guess what... they did get some propulsion from the sausage!! Don't recall the particulars though... might be worth looking up on their website, hmmm...;)
Have a wonderful day!
My guess is there would be a rash of "cleaning accidents" where the firing pin "accidentally" fell against a fine grinding stone while cleaning the firearm.
Here in the states, there are some people saying we should put tiny serial numbers on the business end of firing pins, so they put their number on the primer when they fire.
My guess is there would be a rash of "cleaning accidents" where the firing pin "accidentally" fell against a fine grinding stone while cleaning the firearm.
Easy enough. Get a revolver, and you don't leave shell casings behind.
Easy enough. Get a revolver, and you don't leave shell casings behind.
even better, get a smooth bore flintlock. No rifle traces, no shell casing, etc. :P
Here in the states, there are some people saying we should put tiny serial numbers on the business end of firing pins, so they put their number on the primer when they fire
Proving yet again that the legislature dont bend knee to Physics.
Can it physically be done? No.
So instead of a ban, we mandate what cant be done, and presto- no more gun sales.
Even if they did micro laser inscribe a 1024bit code on the tip of the firing pin, it would'nt last. Just think about how hard the hammer strikes the pin, and that is how hard the pin stikes the primer... effectively hammering off any inscription.
And again, these are drop in aftermarket parts. It would be like a car registration number on the floormats.... you just are forbidden from swapping mats with another vehicle or buying new floormats.
Anyway, this is somewhat beside the point of the thread. I can't think of any identification that could not be bypassed, sure, having ammo or gun parts that bypass it could be illegal, but so is killing people, you just have to make sure not to get caught with the illegal items, or doing an illegal act.
Oh well.
Bullets fired by AK-47s travel at a higher velocity than those from many other weapons, and can do grievous damage to the body. Often they have enough energy to pass clear through
I guess we need to put AK's up above 270/308/7mm/300 cause ... the bullets travel faster
Considering that the 7.62x39, fired from a 16" AK barrel, is pretty much the lowest-velocity assault rifle cartridge still in use today.
From that standard 16" AK barrel, it chugs along at 2300 FPS. While that's slightly faster than the 2260 FPS of the 7.92x33mm Kurzpatrone round of WWII (which was fired from various machine carbines with barrel lengths around 16.25" with some slight variation), it's far below the 3100 FPS or so that 5.56x45mm NATO will produce, and even further below the 3200 FPS or so of the old 5.56x45mm M193 round. Granted, the 5.56mm is measured from a 20" barrel, but that's the 'standard' length for an AR15, so it's applicable. Even a 14.5" M4 barrel will keep M855 NATO ball above 2700 FPS at the muzzle, so it's faster than an AK's projectile by a significant margin.
That's precisely the point. If you ask an anti-gunner why they want this, it's to help police solve crimes. Well, what's to stop someone from using an illegal gun that lacks these measures? "It's against the law, duh". Well, aren't murder and robbery also illegal? It's not like that stops the bad guys.
Oh well.
It took me a couple times around for my grandparents to see logic in one debate, that was driving age though, they thought that making it illegal for someone to drive an 18 or younger person until they had their license for more than 6 months would stop them. There had been some kids that got killed driving around on the highway near them, of course, they were also driving with no lights, at night, doing 80 on a 60 two lane blacktop, with no seatbelts on.
I blame our culture though, sometimes I find myself falling into the laws are unbreakable trap, odd, since we see so many crimes in the news.
Gotta love people that know jack about what they are talking about, if the AK were faster, it would likely be less dangerous to anything behind the target, course, bullet design helps too. The Ulyanovsk bullets in some wolf ammo fragment really well, and that is 124 grains of fragmentation, not 60-something. Saw a nasty exit wound on a hog.
Of course, what was it that they did a while back? Was it giving a picture of an AK with the statistics of a Mosin-Nagant when the guy used an SKS?
Obviously these must come from the Safer Machineguns,
like the AK Semiauto Machineguns news anchors love to create.
I love when the graphics department decides an AK Sillouette over a Schoolzone Sign is the perfect backdrop for a 17year old liquorstore robber shooting a glock at a cop news story... Youth Gunned Down, film at 11