Lots of ideas and info for shotguns there.
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Shotguns
All shotguns require the Personal Firearms Proficiency feat. All shotguns are longarms and incur a -4 penalty on attack rolls against adjacent targets.
Shotguns are unique in that it is possible to fire a large variety of munitions. The most common are the buckshot (the default ammunition type) or the slug.
Buckshot
Buckshot attacks takes no range penalty to the attack roll, but the damage roll takes a -1 penalty per damage die per range increment beyond the first. The spread imposes an additional -2 to hit against targets engaged in close combat. The Elusive Target and Precise Shot feats do not affect this penalty. The spread also helps counter the effect of cover – read the bonus to defense and reflex saves as if the cover was one category worse.
Slugs
Slug attacks are worked out as normal, but the Fortitude save for Massive Damage suffer a -2 circumstance penalty.
have you read the 'Bolt Action' thread in Johannixx's sig?
Lots of ideas and info for shotguns there.
Nope I need to see that
1. 12-gauge 2-3/4" shells have a base damage of 2d10. 3" Magnum shells deal +1 damage and have an increased range increment. 3-1/2" Super Magnum shells deal +2 damage and have an increased range increment.
2. Shot rounds have 5 range increments, slugs have 10 range increments.
3. Birdshot has half the range increment of buckshot.
4. Shot rounds get -1 to hit and damage per range increment, instead of the normal -2 to hit and no penalty to damage. Slugs are treated as normal projectiles.
5. Shot rounds ignore the target's size bonuses to AC.
6. New feat, to be described shortly, called Fast Pump. This allows the user to fire a pump-action shotgun with a RoF of 'S' instead of 'Single'.
7. Far Shot does not work with shot rounds
8. Precise Shot does not work with shot rounds
9. 'Standard' choke is Improved Cylinder. This allows shot rounds and slugs to be fired without penalty. Modified choke adds 5' to range increment, but prevents slugs from being used. Full choke adds 10' to range increment, but prevents slugs from being used.
10. Shotguns have four types of sights: Bead/Ramp-and-bead, ghost ring, rifle and red dot sights. Bead sights are fast, but lack accuracy for mid- or long-range slug work. Rifle sights have good accuracy for slug work, but are slower than beads. Ghost rings are a good compromise with decent speed and decent accuracy. Red dots (such as an Aimpoint Micro T1) are fast AND accurate, but expensive and most shotguns require modification in order to mount one. Any ideas for differentiating between them, or is that too micro-managing for Modern?
11. Longarms with barrels shorter than 14" count as Medium for the purpose of the Close Combat Shot ability. Rifle-caliber weapons with short barrels have a -1 equipment penalty to damage due to the lower muzzle velocity.
12. A character with a shotgun using shot rounds who misses by 2 or less deals half damage to the target (essentially only hitting with part of the shot pattern)
I have also developed a feat for using a pump-action shotgun like a semi-auto. A truly skilled shotgunner can do so quite easily.
Fast Pump
Pre-requisites: Point Blank Shot, Weapon Focus (Pump Shotguns)
Benefit: A character with this feat can treat any pump-action shotgun as if it had a RoF of 'S' rather than 'Single'.
I have also come up with a shotgun-themed AdC, the Scattergunner.
Scattergunner
The shotgun has long been a staple of American law enforcement and self-defense, but with modern advancements in carbine and submachinegun technology, this venerable weapon system has fallen out of favor. Many view the shotgun as an obsolete weapon meant for country bumpkins and uneducated rural cops at worst, or a niche tool for breaching doors or riot control at best. The Scattergunner proves them all wrong.
While the materials and technology advances of firearms have recently been applied to the shotgun, only the Scattergunner has taken the time to learn specialized techniques to make the most out of this powerful weapon system. In the hands of a trained Scattergunner, a shotgun is capable of reaching out to surprising distances, engaging targets with a level of precision that was previously unknown to the weapon’s detractors. Scattergunners are not simply trap or skeet shooters with a “high-speed, low-drag” weapon; they are highly trained specialists who excel in Close-Quarters Battle (CQB) situations. A Scattergunner can rip targets apart at close range with buckshot, and then rapidly transition to a slug to engage distant targets.
Many Scattergunners are drawn to the shotgun by its brutal close-range power. Others see the inherent versatility of a large-caliber weapon that can chamber multiple types of specialty rounds, from less-than-lethal riot control loads to door breaching rounds to magnum buckshot and slugs for increased punch at extended ranges. Some have merely decided to take the familiar shotgun to new levels of effectiveness.
Requirements
To qualify to become a Scattergunner, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Base Attack Bonus: +2.
Sleight of Hand: 6 ranks
Repair: 6 ranks
Craft (Mechanical): 6 ranks
Feats: Personal Firearms Proficiency; Point Blank Shot; Weapon Focus (any shotgun)
Class Skills
The Scattergunner’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are: Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Craft (Mechanical), Drive (Dex), Escape Artist (Dex), Gamble (Wis), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (current events, popular culture, streetwise) (Int), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Read/Write Language (none), Repair (Int), Ride (Dex), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Speak Language (none), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Tumble (Dex).
Skill Points at Each Level: 5 + INT modifier.
Class Features
All of the following are class features of the Scattergunner prestige class.
Hit Die: d8
Action Points: 6 + one-half character level, rounded down, every time the Scattergunner attains a new level in this class
Weapons and Armor Proficiency: Scattergunners gain no additional weapon or armor proficiency.
I'm the original proponent of un-nerfed shotguns in Modern. I've condensed my rules down to the following:
1. 12-gauge 2-3/4" shells have a base damage of 2d10. 3" Magnum shells deal +1 damage and have an increased range increment. 3-1/2" Super Magnum shells deal +2 damage and have an increased range increment.
2. Shot rounds have 5 range increments, slugs have 10 range increments.
3. Birdshot has half the range increment of buckshot.
4. Shot rounds get -1 to hit and damage per range increment, instead of the normal -2 to hit and no penalty to damage. Slugs are treated as normal projectiles.
5. Shot rounds ignore the target's size bonuses to AC.
6. New feat, to be described shortly, called Fast Pump. This allows the user to fire a pump-action shotgun with a RoF of 'S' instead of 'Single'.
7. Far Shot does not work with shot rounds
8. Precise Shot does not work with shot rounds
9. 'Standard' choke is Improved Cylinder. This allows shot rounds and slugs to be fired without penalty. Modified choke adds 5' to range increment, but prevents slugs from being used. Full choke adds 10' to range increment, but prevents slugs from being used.
10. Shotguns have four types of sights: Bead/Ramp-and-bead, ghost ring, rifle and red dot sights. Bead sights are fast, but lack accuracy for mid- or long-range slug work. Rifle sights have good accuracy for slug work, but are slower than beads. Ghost rings are a good compromise with decent speed and decent accuracy. Red dots (such as an Aimpoint Micro T1) are fast AND accurate, but expensive and most shotguns require modification in order to mount one. Any ideas for differentiating between them, or is that too micro-managing for Modern?
11. Longarms with barrels shorter than 14" count as Medium for the purpose of the Close Combat Shot ability. Rifle-caliber weapons with short barrels have a -1 equipment penalty to damage due to the lower muzzle velocity.
12. A character with a shotgun using shot rounds who misses by 2 or less deals half damage to the target (essentially only hitting with part of the shot pattern)
Fast Pump
Pre-requisites: Point Blank Shot, Weapon Focus (Pump Shotguns)
Benefit: A character with this feat can treat any pump-action shotgun as if it had a RoF of 'S' rather than 'Single'.
Okay so if follow Johannixx's suggestion, especially #1, would a Masamune Shirow Power Armor i.e. Appleseed type equipped with a specially designed shotgun be increased to 2d12... and I like the Feat
Base damage is 2d12 but that drops for the range increament
2d12 1st, 2d10 2nd, 2d8 3rd, and 2d6 4th and 2d4 at 5th. Without precise shot or other feats that allow for longer ranges you stop there.
A shot can blast a person apart,a double barrel does often leave some of person behind if they survive. And the threshold rule makes shot guns dealy.
Without precise shot or other feats that allow for longer ranges you stop there.
Far Shot, surely.
-DF
I make shot guns deadly to the point of WOW...wooo! for my players.
Base damage is 2d12 but that drops for the range increament
I went with the Pellet method-
For 12ga 00buck: (1d8 - #Rng)d4
1d8 pellets hit, for 1d4 dmg each, -1 pellet for each RI
-0 range penalty to hit
It is really easy to get the pattern on target far away,
but that far away Pattern Density drops the count of pellets in the pattern that hit
The damage per pellet die and count die can be modified to fit other loads,
such as raising the count die to d10 for 12pellet 3" shells, or to 2d12 for #4,
while adjusting the pellet damage die from 1d3-1 for #4 to 1d6 for 000
then they still are not as good up close as a .30 rifle. That was the point Johannixx made in his BoltAction vs Shotgun thread. Even the old bolt (single) .303s or Mausers with their 24-29" barrels are better close action guns than a 30RI pump(single) shotgun by these rules. Add the freaky way RAW gave leveraction a Semi rof, and the 444/45-70 leverguns also trounce the shotgun at close range pluse can get DTap damage
:D
When folks shoot at clay pigeons at a skeet range,
why do they use shotguns instead of a 22 rifle? The 22 is far more powerful than the couple of #8 pellets hitting the clay.
Because its far far easier to hit with a shotgun, even though the pellets do lower damage:
When your weapon discharges, and the bore is pointing 1.5" to the left of the target, wouldnt it be swell to have that spot be the center of a 10" pellet pattern, so a few pellets will hit rather than a single rifle bullet missing by 1.5" ?
Shotguns should give better ToHit than rifles, not better damage (exceptions of course)
We all do agree that the reason folks use shotguns is to improve their chance of hitting, not to do more damage than a 308 to the duck they shot at.... right?
When folks shoot at clay pigeons at a skeet range,
why do they use shotguns instead of a 22 rifle? The 22 is far more powerful than the couple of #8 pellets hitting the clay.
Agreed, when you're talking about the last few range increments of birdshot. Not when you're talking about close-range buckshot hits.
I accomplish this by having shotguns ignore size bonuses to AC. A Foster or Brenneke slug should still do more damage to soft targets than a .308, as should a hit from 9 pellets of 00 at close range.
in the big picture, yes... the pattern doesnt open up too much in the first few RI's.
However, in the metagame, compare the size of the shot patterns to the grouping difference of a "All Glocks are +1MW" vs a production ruger or colt... and we see the disparity of /hitting area to boresight/ to qualify for better odds: If a glock gets a X" better grouping to get +1tohit at a given range, a non-full choke shot pattern will cover that spread no problem.
Its a matter of asking just how many inches at 25m does +1Tohit vs another weapon really mean? The 'Glock" +1 and the shot pattern +1 should be comprable.
J,
in the big picture, yes... the pattern doesnt open up too much in the first few RI's.
However, in the metagame, compare the size of the shot patterns to the grouping difference of a "All Glocks are +1MW" vs a production ruger or colt... and we see the disparity of /hitting area to boresight/ to qualify for better odds: If a glock gets a X" better grouping to get +1tohit at a given range, a non-full choke shot pattern will cover that spread no problem.
Its a matter of asking just how many inches at 25m does +1Tohit vs another weapon really mean? The 'Glock" +1 and the shot pattern +1 should be comprable.
I solve that by not making Glocks masterwork from the factory. The Glock is the AK of handguns: cheap, reliable, and ugly. It's not particularly ergonomic or exceptionally accurate, though it is serviceable for certain.