Germany:
Nebelwerfer 42
Elefant
Marder III
Stug III
Jagd Panther
Jagd Tiger
Soviet:
KV-85
IS-2
IS-3
Im also curious if anyone can point me towards good material for use of chemical weapons such as Mustard Gas?
Did someone mention arty?Tema did an extensive workup on the vehicles and classes.
Check here for the initial thread where you can follow how he got to the numbers he got. He had ww2 vehicles, equip, and classes working up, and I helped out with the cannons part.
Warning: Getting shot by a tankgun can kill a guy using Tema's system, and with my rules you can get beyond killed by a artillery shells landing near you.... yet survive that same shell landing a little farther from you
For Instance:
Tiger Tank
Crew: 5
Pass: 0
Cargo: 420 lbs
Init: -3
Man: -3
Speed: 38 (42??)
Def: Not Listed
Hardness: 20 (Front), 12 (Other)
HP: 65
Size: G
Breakdown: Not Listed
[Weapon information not listed?]
VS
Tiger (Modern Era's Hell on Earth)
Crew: 3
Pass: 0
Cargo: 100 lbs
Init: -6
Man: -5
Speed: 45 (4)
Def: 6
Hardness: 20
HP: 56
Size: G
Breakdown: 5%
88mm KwK 36
Crew: 5
Dmg: 7d6
Crit: 20
Range: 5000 feet
RoF: 1
Mag: 1 int.
Size: H
Crit Fail: 1
Ceiling: -
Even the Maus only had 65 hp and a hardness of 33.
As for Firearms
MP38/40 (9mm submachine gun - large)
Dmg: 2d6
Crit: 20
Range: 40 feet
Rof: S, A
Mag: 32
Weight: 8lbs
CritFail: Not Listed
vs
MP38/40 (Modern Era's: Hell on Earth)
Dmg: 2d10
Crit: 20
Range: 35 feet
Rof: S, A
Mag: 32
Weight: 10lbs
40 feet range incr. - 32 round box mag.
CritFail: 1
Basically due to the difference in stats I can only really use one or the other depending on which is more realistic for the type of setting Im working on. And having stats for the Maus is a must.
Depending on how the stats for Tema's Paks and such work with Hell On Earth's tank stats I might be able to use those. The only real problem with Hell on Earth is that yeah they have stats for US, Brittish, German, Russian, and Japanese tanks, but they only have two Italian tanks, one Brittish tank that they had stats for the tank, but not its weapon (The Crusader),and none for China, France, Poland, Romania, or the Middle East/North Africa (I would have liked to have had one more distinct faction but ah well). So, as you can see here (imperialdragonisles.50webs.com/vehicles_...) I ended up having to recycle some tanks between my factions (ugh).
is what kid of crack were they smokin
when they give the mp40 9x19p submachinegun a 2d10 damage?
... what kind of idiot would take a modern 2d6 9x19p HK MP5 or 2d6 9x19p Uzi or any other 2d6 9x19p submachinegun, when you can dig up a ww2 9x19p submachinegun stat'ed at 2d10?
If the 9mm mp40 does 2d10,
the 45 Tommygun should do 2d12, right?
I cant even begin to describe whats wrong with the 7d6 5000ft Range kwk88.
How much damage on average will that do against a 20Hardness vehicle?
7x (3.5avg) -20Hard = 4 or 5 points of damage done to the target on average.
Please tell me they have some special rules to make hitting a target 4700ft away harder than hitting a target 900ft away, when they give a tankgun a 5000ft Range
And if a 88 only gets 7d6,
I am afraid to ask how little a 40Bofors does.
*Checks*
Nope.
As for special rules, I didnt really read the rules for it since I was really just looking for stats.
To answer your remark on the Thomson:
Thomson M1928A1
Dmg: 2d6
Range: 20ft
Thomson M1A1
Dmg: 2d6
Dmg: Range 20ft
Still by comparison, the M1 Garand does 2d10, the 98k does 2d8, the Bren does
And Im not using any modern weapons like the Aug or OICW or anything like that so to me the comparison is irrelevant. I've also always been of the understanding that where tanks and vehicles of that nature are concerned, that you cant really compare damage from infantry weapons with tank weapons, because using a Thomson against a Tiger isnt going to do any damage period. Whereas A tank cannon against infantry if it hits is more or less by default a critical hit so your your actually doing double damage.
I cant speak on the dmg of the KwK88, but I will agree with you on the range. After all, the KwK36 8.8cm with a standard AP round had a maximum effective range of 3000 meters. With a heat round the maximum effective range was reduced to 2000m
Frankly I just want stats that are fair and relative and dont make putting infantry up against tanks (like the tank hunter regiments) a mandatory death sentence by the GM. Im not looking for 100% historical realism where a single shot can kill a player. While they look good, the stats detailed in that post seem a bit too "hard core realism" for a setting that I just want to be fun. Heck, my campaign still uses D20 magic rules, how realistic is that? LoL. The most important thing for me, as a gm, is that the damages, ranges, and rates of fire for infantry weapons are appropriatly proportional to each other and the same thing for tank weapons.
So if a soldier wielding a MG42 for 2d10 damage (according to my official supplement) attacks a heavy tank with a 77mm cannon that, for the sake of the argument, also does 2d10 damage, the MG42 will deal 0 damage while the cannon (being used on infantry) effectively deals 4d10 damage.
of trying to have people encounter war machines that are designed to be not just 1ShotKill, but 1ShotTPK
... without actually giving it the firepower it needs for its primary function to prevent it translating into lethality for the squishys.
That in itself is something to consider-
mull over why tankers call infantry 'Squishys'.
a point of target Hardness is a point
regardless of if it is a 2d4 .22rimfire shooting, or a 2d6 9mm, or 2d10 rifle, a 2d12 50BMG or a 40/57/75/88/105 cannon.
When a 20Hardness target is shot by a 2d10 m1/k98/Enfield,
if the shooter rolls max it does 20 - 20 = bounce off tank.
When a 2d10 30Browning/MG42 does average BURSTFIRE damage, the tank takes 21-20= 1pt damage.
Due to the bell curve, it is uncommon for that 4d10 attack to actually do more than 10 damage.
(note: the standard RAW stating of 50BMG is not good,
since they put the 50BMG in the 2d12 damage slot when that tier should have gone to elephant guns and 50BMG should have got 2d20 tier. That being said, I will assume you will run with the 50BMG as 2d12 and will scope my text to fit that)
The 50BMG is the crossover, or 'missing link' between vehicular weapons and antipersonel weapons. It does 2d12 against both vehicles and people, and anyone that ever rode in a APC will tell you, the 50BMG is really good at killing light armor(hard10) vehicles (swisscheese a m113). That provides a grounding link that the damages and Hardness numbers of vehicles is indeed the same as the squishys.
The problem with running a ww2 campaign,
is keeping it small enough in scope
that the party doesnt encounter 155/8" artillery or a ripple of 500lb bombs as was common in ww2. The Dresden fight didnt really care what the folks on the ground rolled for initiative, that took TPK to a whole new level. While its fun to be a ship captain, when your ship is the one that gets sunk, it becomes less fun (and dont get me started on what happens to your sub commander in a Depth Charges fight). The larget the war machine, the more TPK incoming attacks become.
In an effort to counter this (a 'Dont Do This' example of a poorly executed effort)
we see WoC gave a 1000kiloton nuke a beyond pathetic 16d8 damage
.. just to make sure nukes wouldnt be overpowered
well, to end on a positive,
the 40Bofors was used by the Brits
that shared with the Yanks,
but the Japs captured some brit bofors and ran it thru their copier,
whereas the nazis captured the actual Bofors factory
... yes, every side in WW2 used a Bofors
(funfact: Battleship Iowa at one time had 9x 16inch + 20x 5inch + 80x bofors)
(last decade, a modern APFS dart 40Bofor munition successfully punched a m60 tank turret)
Consulted my resident D20 expert. Problem solved.