Speed vs. haste - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Speed vs. haste

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
macthetank
Feb 11, 2009 17:31:51 The weapon enhancement "Speed" states, "A weapon of Speed allows the wielder one single extra attack per round at his highest bonus." The question is, "is this like haste?" Where if you had A short sword w/ speed in one hand and a knife of speed in the other hand, it would only work once (providing 3 attacks total). Also if you enhanced your gloves with speed, you'd get an extra attack with whatever weapon you held with those gloves.

I certainly disagree with this assumption. My argument is that a weapon enhancement is not a spell. It's a modifier to the weapon itself, not a bonus ability. If I was enhancing a weapon with the actual spell "Haste" the previous paragraph would be true. Speed is a weapon enhancement only. Given a sh. sword of speed in one hand and a knife of speed in the other. That would equal 4 attacks at the highest bonus (until the BAB is 6 then it would be 5 attacks). Is this incorrect?

Weapon enhancement does not equal haste spell.
#2
DwarfFighter
Feb 11, 2009 17:53:08 I would rule that you get a single extra attack. If you use two weapons "of Speed" then you get an extra attack with one of them, your choice.

The reason for this is that the "of Speed" effect gives the character the ability to make an extra attack, but in the case of a weapon "of Speed" the extra attack carries the restriction that the extra attack must be made with the weapon.

-DF
#3
macthetank
Feb 12, 2009 15:16:14 What's to say that if you're dual weilding 2 weapons of speed that you don't get 2 initial attacks with both? Given the idea of having a Sh. sword of speed in one hand and a knife of speed in the other, what's the hang up with only 1 extra attack?
#4
DwarfFighter
Feb 12, 2009 15:19:06 Not "what", but "who".

-DF
#5
TheRealOrion
Feb 12, 2009 17:34:30 Haste (at least in D&D) grants a whole different set of bonuses: +1 Hit, +1 "AC," bonus attack at highest BAB when making a full-attack. A weapon of Speed doesn't do that. They're not the same, just similar.
#6
penchant
Feb 13, 2009 18:16:50 I've had the same debate numerous times over the years and through the editions. In the end, it is the DM's ruling. When I was a player I wanted an extra attack for each weapon. When I ran I realized that what a player wants is not always the best for the game. The truth is that it likely would not be overpowering to allow the offhand weapon to grant the extra attack as well. The two weapon fighter is really at such a disadvantage in the damage department over the two handed fighter that one more attack isn't going to kill the game.
#7
backstabbist
Feb 13, 2009 19:59:53 Back in the ole days
it was easy to see if something like this was overpowered:

Have a few MonkeyGrip Ogres attack the party with two Huge weapons Of Speed (TWF Penalty), with an extra attack for each one,
and see if the PCs think it fair.

I say it used to be cool in the old days,
because back then you couldnt just head over to Magmart and turn in the Huge Speedies and just buy a set of reasonable sized ones.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 macthetank Feb 11, 2009 17:31:51	The weapon enhancement "Speed" states, "A weapon of Speed allows the wielder one single extra attack per round at his highest bonus." The question is, "is this like haste?" Where if you had A short sword w/ speed in one hand and a knife of speed in the other hand, it would only work once (providing 3 attacks total). Also if you enhanced your gloves with speed, you'd get an extra attack with whatever weapon you held with those gloves. I certainly disagree with this assumption. My argument is that a weapon enhancement is not a spell. It's a modifier to the weapon itself, not a bonus ability. If I was enhancing a weapon with the actual spell "Haste" the previous paragraph would be true. Speed is a weapon enhancement only. Given a sh. sword of speed in one hand and a knife of speed in the other. That would equal 4 attacks at the highest bonus (until the BAB is 6 then it would be 5 attacks). Is this incorrect? Weapon enhancement does not equal haste spell.
#2 DwarfFighter Feb 11, 2009 17:53:08	I would rule that you get a single extra attack. If you use two weapons "of Speed" then you get an extra attack with one of them, your choice. The reason for this is that the "of Speed" effect gives the character the ability to make an extra attack, but in the case of a weapon "of Speed" the extra attack carries the restriction that the extra attack must be made with the weapon. -DF
#3 macthetank Feb 12, 2009 15:16:14	What's to say that if you're dual weilding 2 weapons of speed that you don't get 2 initial attacks with both? Given the idea of having a Sh. sword of speed in one hand and a knife of speed in the other, what's the hang up with only 1 extra attack?
#4 DwarfFighter Feb 12, 2009 15:19:06	Not "what", but "who". -DF
#5 TheRealOrion Feb 12, 2009 17:34:30	Haste (at least in D&D) grants a whole different set of bonuses: +1 Hit, +1 "AC," bonus attack at highest BAB when making a full-attack. A weapon of Speed doesn't do that. They're not the same, just similar.
#6 penchant Feb 13, 2009 18:16:50	I've had the same debate numerous times over the years and through the editions. In the end, it is the DM's ruling. When I was a player I wanted an extra attack for each weapon. When I ran I realized that what a player wants is not always the best for the game. The truth is that it likely would not be overpowering to allow the offhand weapon to grant the extra attack as well. The two weapon fighter is really at such a disadvantage in the damage department over the two handed fighter that one more attack isn't going to kill the game.
#7 backstabbist Feb 13, 2009 19:59:53	Back in the ole days it was easy to see if something like this was overpowered: Have a few MonkeyGrip Ogres attack the party with two Huge weapons Of Speed (TWF Penalty), with an extra attack for each one, and see if the PCs think it fair. I say it used to be cool in the old days, because back then you couldnt just head over to Magmart and turn in the Huge Speedies and just buy a set of reasonable sized ones.