| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| #1herbert_westJun 01, 2009 10:12:16 | I am playing through MGS4 again for the trillionth time and am literally just watching the part where Snake meets Drebin. It suddenly occured to me when Drebin is waving the hankerchief around in mock surrender and drops the grenade out of it that I haven't seen rules for illusion. So I wanted to ask around here if anyone has made any rules for general illusion or any specific tricks. I'm not so good at making rules so I thought I'd ask around. I'm also looking for stats for things (i.e. items such as fake thumbs, spring loaded trapdoors etc). Thanks HW |
| #2DwarfFighterJun 01, 2009 12:17:42 | Here's my suggestion: The PC must make Sleight of Hand check to hide the grenade: +4 The grenade is a Tiny weapon. +0 Handkerchief (neither tight nor bulky) -4 The weapon can be "drawn as a free action". The Quick Draw feat is not required in this case: it's held in the hand. Opposed by opponent's Spot check. * If the PC wins the enemies do not notice that he has a prepared weapon. The PCs may proceed to fake their surrender. * If the enemies win then they aren't fooled. The PC will need to discard the grenade along with any other obvious weapons in order to create an opportunity for surrender. Even so, the enemies will suspect trickery: +2 to their Sense Motive check to oppose the PC's Bluff. The PCs then need to bring immediate hostilities to an end. They need to stop taking aggressive action and throw down their weapons. Assuming the enemies are going to bother taking prisoners at all then this should present an opportunity for communication. Since the PCs are bluffing they need to make a Bluff check opposed by Sense motive. * If the PCs win they wil gain the benefit of surprise if they decide to resume hostilities. Of course, at this point they should appear to have disarmed and stand ready to be captured. * If the enemies win then they suspect foul play and are prepared. They get the surprise round instead should they or the PCs decide to resume fighting. If the PC successfully conceals the grenade and fakes surrender he can release the grenade as a free action, signaling the start of a fresh round of fighting! -DF |
| #3herbert_westJun 01, 2009 12:57:01 | Perhaps showing the grenade (ala Drebin) should give some sort of bonus to diplomacy checks (or bluff checks?) to convince the opponent to back off? I would like someone suddenly pulling a grenade on me, and I'm CRAZY :D On another note can anyone think of any other tricks that could be fleshed out similarly to this? |
| #4TheRealOrionJun 01, 2009 14:12:04 | I believe that's all covered under Sleight Of Hand and/or Hide. |
| #5rhialtoJun 02, 2009 5:01:04 | What they said. It is Sleight of Hand. Hide skill would be used to hide yourself, so that's not it. Bluff would be if the primary means of distracting their attention is verbal, which again doesn't quite match the traditional stage magic genre. |
| #6TheRealOrionJun 02, 2009 10:01:00 | Whoops! Sorry. Long-standing house rule. We use Hide to hide objects, as well. |
| #7DwarfFighterJun 03, 2009 1:41:12 | But do you use Disguise to hide objects in plain sight? ![]() -DF |
| #8rhialtoJun 03, 2009 6:38:38 | No. Disguise is all about your own appearance, and ability to imitate the mannerisms of the person or archetype you want to appear as. When you say hide something in plain sight, what exactly as you doing? If it is in your possession somehow, that could either be a Bluff vs. Sense Motive ("brooch, what brooch? I'm not wearing a brooch") or Sleight of Hand vs. Spot skill (*calmly brushes dust off jacket lapels, while secretly un-clipping and palming brooch*), depending on what exactly you are doing to hide it. If you are simply placing it in an non-obvious place (a la purloined letter), I'd make it an unopposed Search for the other person. The difficulty of noticing such an item is entirely dependent on where it is placed. A more skilful person might be able to determine how easy it would be to notice the object, but if it's in a given location, it doesn't really make much difference who put it there for how hard it is to spot. Disguising an object to look like another object would be a specific use of the Forgery skill (opposed by Forgery according to both SRDs). |
| #9DwarfFighterJun 03, 2009 8:17:21 | Hiding objects in plain sight: * Place a green bowling ball among some water melons. * Paint your armoured truck like a yellow school bus, complete with black "windows". * Paste a 10 dollar bill on each side of the transmitter you put in the briefcase full of money. It might not stand up to close scrutiny or a search, but it could defeat a casual Spot. -DF |
| #10dbayJun 05, 2009 22:22:10 | Bluff is more than verbal, thats why a melee feint is a bluff check. Its your entire mannerism. We always use bluff for distractions. If you can succeed a bluff check and distract them, they take the penalty (-5 or whatever) for being distracted. |
| #11rhialtoJun 06, 2009 1:06:55 | My houserule keeps Bluff as primarily a verbal schtick. I detest with a passion the Feint ability it has been granted in combat. |
| #12TheRealOrionJun 06, 2009 1:42:52 | Feint's not powerful enough to resent it that much. I have no trouble believing that some of the skills that go with being a good liar make you good at faking someone out in combat. Now, that's not the same as "throwing fakes," but that's okay. It's D&D. If I wanted to play a game that simulated reality, I'd just get into real fights, and where's the fun in that? |
| #13rhialtoJun 06, 2009 4:30:30 | My houserule for feinting is that you can use your bab or Bluff, reflecting either a clever bit of swordplay or a witty comment that causes your opponent to lose his cool for a moment. I plan on changing teh actual effect too, but haven't yet found a satisfying change. With my houserule so far, it doesn't really benfit anyone much anyway. Rogues (and anyone with sneak attack) are the prime users of feint, and their bab tends to be ovrshadowed by their Bluff as often as not anyway. |
| #14DwarfFighterJun 06, 2009 6:56:39 | My houserule keeps Bluff as primarily a verbal schtick. I detest with a passion the Feint ability it has been granted in combat. I am intrigued as why you feel this way. -DF |