Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zombiegleemax Aug 04, 2007 3:41:42	What modifications can you make to a 50 caliber machinegun to miniaturize it enough to fit in a pocket? It's a weapon for a BBEG - Medium size, no extra-dimensional spaces, has to keep the 2d12 damage, etc :D
#2 jekolmy Aug 04, 2007 10:01:56	You could add both miniaturized and compact gadgets to it reducing the weapons size by 3 steps
#3 zombiegleemax Aug 04, 2007 11:07:10	Really, Ezram, you shouldn't torture Backstabbist like this. He just posted about pocket .50 cals the other day, too. lol! Jekolmy's right as far as I can remember. :P
#4 backstabbist Aug 04, 2007 11:29:12	Just to keep everyone on the same page, lets review what happens with a less powerful caliber in a pistol .600NE Pistol video That is about half(7/12th) as powerful as a 50BMG I dont know about Bad & Evil, but the shooter was deffinately a Big Guy John Browning just took the 30-06 (7.62x63), and scaled it up to use in a heavy machinegun that bore his name: 50 Browning Machinegun aka 12.7x99mm If you shrink a giant 30-06 down a size, it is a non-giant 30-06, making it a 2d10 caliber. If you shrink it again you'd get something about .2" diameter x about 40mm... which is close to the .233 caliber (5.56x45) at 2d8. Shrink that again, and you get the .17HRM (4.4x27) 2d4 (2d6 if you have a kind gm) Now the fun IF you want to get 2d12 out of a 2d6 caliber because it is a 3 size Miniature/Compact, then you would have to use something other than standard gunpowders in it.. cant use normal Win231 or BlueDot smokeless doublebase gunpowder, or else you would get the normal 2d6 for that size. You need to say there is some special new Uber GunPowder Extreme (UGPX) that can get that .17caliber bullet going mach15 to be as damaging as a 2d12 50bmg. Well, in the future who are we to say they didnt make UGPX in the year 2025, and can get the .17 to do 2d12. See, easy. Using the future propellant UGPX, .17 bullet can do 2d12. Uh, why dont all pl6 firearms use UGPX in all formats from .17 to .30 rifle, wouldnt a 44mag (pl5 2d8) use UGPX instead of museum Win231 and get (2d8-->2d10-->2d12-->3d10). Why wouldnt all pl6 firearms get 3 bigger dice damage by using the then current UGPX propellant? Why would the military just choose to use museum gunpowder rather than then current powerfull UGPX? Maybe they just dont want to have a G3/M14 that does 3d12, that is more of a civilian type weapon. And they certainly wouldnt want the AbramsIV 120mm to do 15d12 or more And it is alway entertaining to see the Gadgets shrink the 120mm Tankgun 3 sizes too. Bipod AMR 10d12 Huge I see where you are wanting to go with this, and I'll make it easy Dont MiniCompact the 50BMG (which then has to use the MiniCompact 50ammo) MiniCompact the 40mmGrenade ammo, down to 10mm and load up a magazine full of them in a 10mm MP5 or a rechambered Ingram, so folks will be in 10 3d6 grenade blast autofires, attack the party, not 1 character
#5 superherotrainee Aug 04, 2007 13:41:17	Okay, Stabbist, but what about heightened rates of fire? I seem to recall you folks rolling around ideas for saturation autofire a while back. The main argument was that a minigun should outperform a M16A1, but does not in the current stat block. Higher rates of fire seem plausable for customized, personalized, and future weaponry. Military groups might decline to use them for the same reason later M16 variants stopped having fully automatic rates of fire. People still want those, though. What happened to those rules?
#6 backstabbist Aug 04, 2007 14:41:12	yeah, I remember we (pretty sure you had input on the thread) worked on rules to allow the shooter to choose what effect to get from more ammo on target, Increase RefDC / Increase Damage/ Increase Area I have no idea what happened to them but a quickie base to make fit is the MM Blackhawk Minigun rules [INDENT]7.62minigun, 20x20 4d10 damage Ref DC20 so that is 4x the area of a 10x10, +2dice damage, +5DC all for 10x the bullets of regular Autofire[/INDENT] Hows about DC20 = +5 Bullets per 10x10 DC23 = +10 Bullets per 10x10 more DC past 23 = +10 per +1Die = +5 Bullets per 10x10 15x15 = 2.25x 20x20 = 4x ROF rpm limit: Number of bullets in an attack cannot exceed RPM/30 ex: 15 bullets in 10x10 for DC20 25 bullets in 10x10 for DC20 +2dice 100 slugs in 20x20 for DC20 +2dice 20x20 25 bullets in 10x10 for DC23 +1Dice 55 Bullets in 15x15 for DC23 +1 Dice 15x15 it really should all be multipliers, like +3DC = 1.5x and +1die = 2x and +100% Bullets x #of 10x10 ,meaning those three effects would be (10 x 1.5 x 2 x4 < four 10x10s in 20x20> ) = 30 x4area = 120bullets, but the minigun has a gimp at 100 making it hard to fit rules to add up to 100. dont know about lugging around a minigun for saturation, but this works it's like a tommygun, but Shootier at 1500+rpm
#7 zombiegleemax Aug 04, 2007 17:33:25	It's mostly a humorous excercise, but I would still use this...mostly for the shock factor
#8 backstabbist Aug 05, 2007 0:34:38	How do you plan on holding it? or using the wee-tillin itty bitty paddle triggers? FM23-65 (2002) says a m2hb tips in at about 84lb (38kg @wiki) and a belt of 85 rounds is gonna weigh over 20lb and Miniaturization & Compact don't... you heard me, --- DO NOT --- drop the weight of the weapon
#9 zombiegleemax Aug 05, 2007 0:49:26	Sorry backstabbist, I was not replying to you. Seeing that you went into a realistic approach, but going in-depth in this instance wasn't what I needed. Besides which, in the future, I could see some sort of super lightweight alloy (1/4, 1/5 the weight) being possible.
#10 narukagami Aug 05, 2007 1:08:15	The sillyness that backstabbist pointed out is why I banned the size changing gadgets from working on weapons in my games. Among many others. Also, 'DIS T'READ AIN'T SHOOTY ENUF! NEEDZ MO' DAKKA!
#11 zombiegleemax Aug 05, 2007 1:15:29	Look at it this way, now your bad guy can say... "SAY HELLO TO MY LITTLE FRIEND!" and mean it :D
#12 backstabbist Aug 05, 2007 2:17:13	Regarding making guns lighter with alloys please refer to the video at the top of Post #4 I wholely (sp??) support making small powerful guns with advanced materials & propellants in the future. I dont see why we wouldnt make firearms so advanced that a pocket gun would do 2d12. But tell me folks like JayneCob or GenPatton wouldnt want to carry around a 3d12 SMG if they existed... and exist they would if materials are there to make a 2d12 pocketgun. Right now ,and for the past 100 years, wildcatters have been playing frankenstien with ammo calibers, just for laughs they made the 30TCU & 22PPC swapping the bullets into the cases of AK & m16 brass... 7.62x41 & 5.56x39. They took the 5.7 and put a .17 cal bullet in it. They have necked down 45acp to 22JMag... they cut a 338 down to under 2" for a subsonic 50. If there was a uber powder to get 2d12 from a tiny bullet, they will wildcat that into a TankKiller Carbine 7mm MightyManly MegaMagnum It is a logic problem. If 2d12 Small guns are there, then 3d10 medium pistols, 3d12 Heavy Pistols, 3d12 Carbines, 4d10 Rifles, 4d12 MagRifle, & 5d12 AMR would exist using those materials. ... will there be 14lb 4d12 Weatherby 8mm Magnums? ... will there be 10lb 4d10 BattleRifles with 8d10 Burstfire? ... why not?
#13 zombiegleemax Aug 05, 2007 2:34:37	I find it interesting the Tommy gun was once dubbed "The pocket machine gun" http://www.madehow.com/Volume-6/Thompson-Submachine-Gun.html
#14 jekolmy Aug 05, 2007 9:18:26	It is a logic problem. If 2d12 Small guns are there, then 3d10 medium pistols, 3d12 Heavy Pistols, 3d12 Carbines, 4d10 Rifles, 4d12 MagRifle, & 5d12 AMR would exist using those materials. ... will there be 14lb 4d12 Weatherby 8mm Magnums? ... will there be 10lb 4d10 BattleRifles with 8d10 Burstfire? ... why not? Actually in the game I'll be running once I get back to school some of my guns actually do damage like this (and these are projectile not energy weapons) they for the most part are borrowed from Cyber-Daves starship weaponry rules.... just sized down a bit (and I changed a few names and played with the critical modifiers a bit)
#15 backstabbist Aug 05, 2007 10:15:23	I just did this in the Question on Energy Weapons thread, the table I think he's talking about Based on the scaling of Firearm technology weapons (pl5) for RAW based games. I scaled the other technology Rifles of the other PLs to make a full set for each. I like CyberDaves system way more than RAW, he put a lot of research & logic into his stuff... not only is is good, it makes sense. Bold entry is RAW RAW Disintegrator is only 6lb, so Carbine sized RAW Railgun(grav) is 18lb, so MagnumRifle sized Note: From MagnumRifle --> AMR in pl5 is +33% damage, so I made it +33% later too Notice the AGB (artificial game balance) of damage cap as centuries of advancements dont make weapons better. What would a Miniature Plasma AMR stat as, and why is the Plasma Pistol nowhere near those stats. I got the idea after making a full set for the Aliens 10mm PulseRifle /..edit: update.. I just wanted to update the pic link to work with the GARBAGEMAX site, so now the link works but GABAGEMAX garbaged up the rest of this post as text wall. Come on, everyone knows I LOVE to hit the enter key. ../
#16 superherotrainee Aug 05, 2007 12:22:59	yeah, I remember we (pretty sure you had input on the thread) worked on rules to allow the shooter to choose what effect to get from more ammo on target, Increase RefDC / Increase Damage/ Increase Area I have no idea what happened to them but a quickie base to make fit is the MM Blackhawk Minigun rules [INDENT]7.62minigun, 20x20 4d10 damage Ref DC20 so that is 4x the area of a 10x10, +2dice damage, +5DC all for 10x the bullets of regular Autofire[/INDENT] Hows about DC20 = +5 Bullets per 10x10 DC23 = +10 Bullets per 10x10 more DC past 23 = +10 per +1Die = +5 Bullets per 10x10 15x15 = 2.25x 20x20 = 4x ROF rpm limit: Number of bullets in an attack cannot exceed RPM/30 ex: 15 bullets in 10x10 for DC20 25 bullets in 10x10 for DC20 +2dice 100 slugs in 20x20 for DC20 +2dice 20x20 25 bullets in 10x10 for DC23 +1Dice 55 Bullets in 15x15 for DC23 +1 Dice 15x15 it really should all be multipliers, like +3DC = 1.5x and +1die = 2x and +100% Bullets x #of 10x10 ,meaning those three effects would be (10 x 1.5 x 2 x4 < four 10x10s in 20x20> ) = 30 x4area = 120bullets, but the minigun has a gimp at 100 making it hard to fit rules to add up to 100. Needs more algebra. Number of bullets = 5*2^((d/2)+(s+D)/5-5). d = dice of damage (default to 2) s = side of SQUARE area in feet, or five times the number of squares (default to 10) D = Reflex DC (default to 15) With the negative five and all the defaults, it comes to ten, and doubles every time you add five feet edge space, two dice of damage, or 5 DC. The minigun in your example uses 160 bullets in such an attack by my formula, but I find it more science-y, plus it can be scaled. Stabbist, where can I get all the rate-of-fire data I need to take advantage of this? I had a screenshot of the Excel sheet I used to figure this out, but photobucket is under maintainence. Now I remember why I stopped coming here: OBSESSION IN STATISTICAL INTERPRETATION.
#17 backstabbist Aug 05, 2007 12:59:37	Number of bullets = 5*2^((d/2)+(s+D)/5-5). mmmm... functiony ROFs can be found at FAS/GlobalSecurity, the Russian Guns place, and dare I say... Wiki. Of course, wiki is... well, we all know what wiki is.
#18 superherotrainee Aug 07, 2007 13:31:21	There IS the question of making damage and DC related. Thus, you could spend bullets to up the DC, and if a person rolled under a fifteen, they took full damage, one less die at twenty, two less dice at twenty five, three less dice at thrity... But that would be 'plex. What do you think?
#19 backstabbist Aug 07, 2007 15:31:53	Looks like it would work, at least my initial impression is that it would. Check the scale again, you put up <15 Full Damage 15-19 ?? 20-24 One Die less 25-29 Two Dice less 30+ Three Dice less I think you meant <15 Full 15-19 One Die Less ... But We would need a simpler 2dimention (Area & DamageIncrease) funtion for #Bullets if we go with the Damage Reduction Dynamic DC. Nice thing is that it kicks the Fast Evasionists out of the munchkinwagon
#20 zombiegleemax Aug 09, 2007 5:51:12	I wish people stopped derailing threads.
#21 backstabbist Aug 09, 2007 8:51:37	Oh, sorry... Didnt realize you were still talking about your Pocket Machinegun... Go ahead, have at it. We didnt mean to post stuff after your topic if you were still focusing posts on topic. What about the Pocket Machinegun?
#22 narukagami Aug 09, 2007 12:27:49	Pocket machinegun conclusion: By d20 Future Rules as Written, it is possible to shrink a .50cal HMG down to a manageable, hand held, (if not "pocket") sized weapon with the Miniaturized and Compact gadgets. While completely acceptable by RAW, it makes little to no sense at all by real life and metagame logic due to the fact that if smaller ammunition could be produced to make a medium or smaller weapon have the same effectiveness as our 2d12 damage friend, then that same "size reduction" would be the standard of all weaponry, and 10d12 HE APFSDS, 4d12 fully automatic belt fed autocannons, or something even more powerful, would be standard pistols and/or rifles. Thus, if you continue to scale upwards, larger weaponry would deal more dice of damage than you could fit in two cupped hands. With Large sized, bipod requiring, squad level weapons making the starship weapons in d20 Future's Starship Weapons Table look like a child's cap gun. What more needs to be discussed?
#23 zombiegleemax Aug 09, 2007 15:37:48	Well, you're basing the logic off of "current" technology. Can you predict all of what we'll have in the next 30-50 years? Perhaps. Perhaps not. That's the point of d20 Future though -> to give the players something tangible to realize they're not in their current time It is within one's right as a GM to allow these Universal Weapon gadgets at PL 6 or higher. And, yes, if a thread has reached it's "conclusion", there's no need to pick another idea of interest and go with it. If you're that passionate and thorough on the idea, you can start another topic :embarrass
#24 narukagami Aug 09, 2007 15:52:47	No, logic dictates that if weapon technology of the future allows for a pistol with the power of today's .50cal machinegun, then all other weapons will have also scaled in power as well. And if something comes along after that that will allow for a pistol to exceed the power of the "equal to .50cal in power" pistol, then the other weapons of THAT era will be EVEN MORE powerful. The only thing stopping this is Artificial Game Balance. It is certainly well within their rights to allow it, but that doesn't necessarily mean it makes any sense at all. That DM should be well aware that allowing gadgets to reduce a 3d10 plasma gun at PL7 down to Tiny will also allow me to reduce a 12d6 Tsunami 480 Plasma Cannon down to Small or Medium as well. PS: There is also no logic at all in making the 3d10 plasma gun in the first place when they can carry around weapons that deal 10d12 damage, and are capable of punching through heavy armor, that are, in addition to its extreme killing capability, the same size as the plasma gun. These tank killing assault rifles are made with such old tech, that by that time manufacturing them would only cost pennies.
#25 zombiegleemax Aug 09, 2007 16:14:12	No Okay...
#26 backstabbist Aug 09, 2007 21:03:31	Well, you're basing the logic off of "current" technology. Can you predict all of what we'll have in the next 30-50 years? No, no, no... We are talking about the technology YOU are using to make a 2mm slug gun as powerfull as a 12mm slug gun. It doesnt mater what that technology is, ETC, Rail, Grav... Whatever. Use penutbutter&jelly for all I care. But YOU are using something that we dont have in that Tiny 2d12 gun, and that is ok in first light. BUT Now that you have put that Whatever technology into the campaign, why is it only used in the Ezram PocketMachinegun? Why is it not also used in the Ezram SingleHand Machinegun 4d12, the Ezram Large Machinegun (8d12) and the Ezram AMR 10d12 I called it Uber GunPowder Extreme UGPX, but the name doesnt mater. Why would the world of macho man magnum shooters choose to have UGPX in just a little girly sized gun, when they could just pour a lot more into an AK47 sized gun for 8d12. Compact & Miniaturization create an invisible technology that cant be seen or used in the world of Industry & Defense Contractors? UGPX can be used in the GirlyGun but not in military battle rifles (mini-compact 40mm & 57mm autocannon)? WHy would it not exist as a weapon technology? The answer is AGB : Artificial Game Balance You have seen me demonstrate that as technology advances, guns get gimped to keep the lethality down. The Whatever technology (UGPX) far outstrides the Gimped weapon technologies in d20Future. Large PlasmaRifle 3d10 Large (mini-comp 57mm AC) Whatevergun 8d12 ... see the problem. They cant admit they have a weapon technology that wasnt nerfed/gimped.... so the technology used in Min-Compact cant exist in rules, but is used by the rules as a gadget. and that is dumb
#27 nodaisho Aug 10, 2007 14:48:22	No, logic dictates that if weapon technology of the future allows for a pistol with the power of today's .50cal machinegun, then all other weapons will have also scaled in power as well. Unless there is a drawback such as cost. Commando forces might have the hugely scaled up weapons, Bill Gates' personal bodyguards might have them, but random mook #328402 and expendable footsoldier squadron 5 won't have million-dollar weapons, not unless inflation gets much worse.
#28 narukagami Aug 10, 2007 15:04:13	Unless there is a drawback such as cost. Commando forces might have the hugely scaled up weapons, Bill Gates' personal bodyguards might have them, but random mook #328402 and expendable footsoldier squadron 5 won't have million-dollar weapons, not unless inflation gets much worse. While true, it only holds true for so long. Even if the Medium sized PL7 Tsunami Plasma Cannon is a multi-million dollar gun, at PL8 why bother with trying to develop a crappy little 3d10 Pulse Rifle when you could be concentrating on making cheaper 12d6 Plasma Cannons the size of a pistol? The technology is available, its only a matter of time until someone figures it out. Again, AGB.
#29 backstabbist Aug 10, 2007 15:14:25	exactly, Inflation. 1800's : Beer 5cents, Revolver $25 1900's : Beer Dime/Quarter, Pistol $50 2007 : Beer $1-2 , Pistol $300-700 2175 : Beer $12, Pistol $4000 (DowJones 361500) Try looking at it as how many hours a Cook has to work to earn that cost. Is 2weeks wages the cost of a revolver? Whether you make $1/hr in 1906 or $10/hr 2007... or $130/hr in 2175 when RamenNoodles are $2 a pack. Just consider which would cost more, a UGPX 4d12 SMG (MiniComp 40mmAC), or a PlasmaPistol. Besides, since when did the DoD & DefenseContractors choose to go LowTech rather than million dollar systems to prevent troop casualties. And, as we all know, PDC in d20Future is weak sauce for Balance. You can have a PDC50 Mech, but the PDC25 4d12 SMG is unreasonable.... and isn't the Miniature & Compact cost just a handfull of PDCs above the guncost? GM: OK, you can have the PDC18 2d6 SMG, or the PDC25 4d12 SMG with the 200' Range Inc. PC1: Right, Heir occupation it is then! Gimme that 4d12 SMG!
#30 nodaisho Aug 10, 2007 20:03:02	True. And yet, in reality, price is a balancing factor. Sure, that Grease gun isn't exactly what you would use had you a choice, but it is a hell of a lot cheaper to get lots of them than it would be to buy a lot of UMPs (assuming grease guns were still being made, that is). So why is it that price is not a balancing factor in D20? Does the PDC system need tweaking? Should prices go by dollar values and then be converted into PDC, with modifications be straight additions to the dollar value? How would you deal with antiques (a thompson is much more expensive than a full auto AR-15, but the 15 is a better weapon for the most part) if you did that? Or inflation?
#31 Ragitsu Apr 10, 2008 20:05:58	Too bad you can't use Miniaturization on vehicles...now that's what I call an Apache in my pocket!
#32 tema69 Apr 11, 2008 5:33:25	German Flak 128mm < http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12.8_cm_FlaK_40 > - 13d8 damage (as per 'stabbist's arty rules) - Colossal Add Compact - It becomes Gargantuan. Add Miniaturized - It becomes Large. You then have an expensive battlerifle that fires explosive shells at enormous ranges. The only problem is that it still weighs 27 tonnes! Add the Powerfull Build mutation, it becomes one handed. Take 8 levels in Dreadnought, it becomes a light weapon. Broken? C'mon, the gadget system sucks. Houserule some stuff instead (It'll probably be more balanced no matter what you do). 2cents...
#33 backstabbist Apr 11, 2008 12:08:40	Tema You kinda hit on another broken aspect- the entire Battleship Iowa is colossal. Just one of the 16" navalguns is colossal(66'barrel x 4deck deep), 9x those guns is colossal, and the entire ship is colossal. Mini-Compact that to use 9link 16"guns as a 2hand rifle (inside each shell is about 150lb explosives)
#34 tema69 Apr 11, 2008 15:18:52	Tema You kinda hit on another broken aspect- the entire Battleship Iowa is colossal. Just one if the 16" navalguns is colossal(66'barrel x 4deck deep), 9x those guns is collosal, and the entire ship is colossal. Mini-Compact that to use 9link 16"guns as a 2hand rifle (inside each shell is about 150lb explosives) What's wrong with that? That seems perfectly reasonable. :D
#35 backstabbist Apr 11, 2008 16:50:54	hmmmm 60k tons of ship, packed into a size Large (1 cu m ?) That is a kind of dense material, 120million pounds per cubic meter. .... you really gotta lift with your knees, this could strain your back really easy
#36 doomsought Apr 11, 2008 20:15:19	or bump it up th 27 and deal 10d6 with a miniaturized warpath recoilless riffle. It's your common peons and grunts that get the cheep guns, James bond (The Hero) needs the fancy stuff. If you play that style go ahead and let Your PC's the really big guns, they are the heroes. Mini long shot mass driver, 15d6, medium sized. In fact just about all the mech weapons are huge sized so with +5 to DC our hero can hold it in one hand. *as to the battle ship, crush it to the size of a spoon full, and its neutronium.
#37 backstabbist Apr 11, 2008 22:13:12	A non-Miniature Huge Warpath gun would be the PL6 Mini-RocketLauncher Pistol. RAW has a non-gadgeted 10d6 Pistol. They did it with outstanding logic like this: [INDENT]Mini-Grenade Launcher Though personal grenade launchers were commonly found in the Information Age, the mini-grenade launcher is somewhat different in that it is reduced to roughly the size of a large pistol. Additionally, the ammunition it uses, while still as potent as hand-held counterparts, is reduced in size to match the weapon. Though shoulder-carried missile launchers were commonly found in the Information Age, the mini-rocket launcher is somewhat different in that it is reduced to roughly the size of a large pistol. Additionally, the ammunition it uses is reduced in size to match the weapon[/INDENT] If a non-gadgeted PL6 RocketPistol(med) is 10d6, what would the pl6 non-gageted RocketRifle(large) be? It is a simple matter of a 30mm pl6 rocket is more explodey than a 20mm pl6 rocket, right? No gadgets, just make rockets in the same factory using the same tech with catalog sizes of 20mm(pistol) 30mm(rifle) & 40mm(ATr). Just as a 2000lb iron bomb is more explodey than a 500lb, a 30mm or 40mm pl6 rocket would be more explodey than tha 20mm pistol version. 20mm RocketPistol 10d6 medium 30mm RocketRifle 15d6 large 40mm RocketRifle 20d6 huge(bipod) NOW apply the Miniaturized Gadget to the Huge 20d6 RocketATr to make Micro ATr Pistol 20d6 medium that should only be 20-30lb fullsized.
#38 jekolmy Apr 12, 2008 0:32:19	Why don't we just skip to the 12 gage baby-nuke?
#39 nodaisho Apr 14, 2008 6:37:47	Buy it now and for just 2 PDC more get an NBC suit free?
#40 backstabbist Apr 14, 2008 13:38:12	ok, just to make it official: 12ga 5militon SlugNuke pl6from Waylan's Nukes For All Seasons thread
#41 lonewolf_the_hunter Apr 14, 2008 14:41:25	Well for what it's worth here is my take on the weapon Gadgets: Compact x2(Purchase DC +4), Reduced Weight(-50% weght) x2 (Purchase DC +4) Draw Backs: Machine Pistol Rules( -2attack when Fired Full auto in one hand) no pdc change(reduces to -1 with two handed grip), Decreased Range (PDC-2), Reduced Accuracy(-1atk) (PDC-2) .50BMG Pocket Machine Gun Dmg:2d12,Type:Ballistic.Crit:20. Range Increment: 55ft. RoF:A. Mag:Linked. Weight:37.5lb. Size:Medium. Purchase DC:26. Restriction: Military+3. These stats are derived from the M2 entry in the d20MRPG manual.
#42 Ragitsu May 01, 2008 6:35:50	A bit late, but, nice stats, Lonewolf the Hunter!
#43 nadaka May 01, 2008 8:53:40	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBbjt3OZydg Here you go backstabbist. You have been talking about it for years. Now you can see it in action.
#44 jekolmy May 01, 2008 9:21:30	Whats the point of a machinegun you can hide in your pocket... yet still set up like that? Personally I like the idea of being able to integrate a rifle or SMG into a briefcase where it unfolds (unhinges?) a little and is usable, like in ghost in the shell. Could make lawyers even scarier.
#45 backstabbist May 01, 2008 9:48:21	Did you guys notice it was chambered in .17M2, that is not even as hot as .17HRM (22mag) but is a smaller 22LR brass? Just as I have been saying, Miniaturized & Compacted 50BMG ammo becomes 2d4 (.17cal). Also note the MiniCompact BMG is not a pistol, nor a rifle, but it is a wee-tillin TRIPOD setup... again, as I have been saying, how are you gonna hold that sucker & use the trigger paddles at the read? ANswer: You dont, it is a small Tripod weapon. I wonder what happens if you do keep the full power 50BMG 2d12 but use it in a small gun... oh yeah, we already saw that with a weaker pistol in 600NE video
#46 lonewolf_the_hunter May 03, 2008 2:49:51	A bit late, but, nice stats, Lonewolf the Hunter! Thanx
#47 backstabbist May 15, 2009 14:30:18	Can we get a dozen Miniaturized 10d6 LAWs in a crossbow bolt quiver?
#48 Ragitsu May 15, 2009 15:27:43	Shrink the LAW down far enough, and you can also disguise them as cigarettes.
#49 penchant May 15, 2009 16:09:23	well, gadget rules aside, you can look at it from a different point of view. In Vietnam we tested a new type of gun called the Gyrojet. Essentially it was a rocket launcher that came in rifle, carbine and pistol forms: The projectiles are fired with little to no recoil and accellerate on their way to the target. The weakness is that at close range they do almost no damage. At long range they can be devastating. You can have your BBEG carry a beltfed gyrojet pistol that can only be defeated if they get close enough. I would give it 1d8 damage per 15 feet after the first, with a maximum accelleration distance of 60 feet (ie. 3d8 per single shot). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyrojet
#50 kronos182 May 15, 2009 23:00:48	Could fix part of the low damage problem at close range by using explosive tipped rounds. Which with the gadget system just miniaturize the LAW ammo, and bodda boom, fully automatic uzi style LAW. :P
#51 backstabbist May 15, 2009 23:48:39	Statin' the Gyrojet / RA Rocket Assist arms OLDSCHOOL, Yo[INDENT]Tema asked me back in the day- [INDENT]I'd like to see that weapon statted. I've been thinking of including Gyrojet weapons in the WW2 (alternate reality) campaign I'm GM'ing. Are you up for that, 'stabbist? That'd be great! Uh, the rifle or the rotary? Personal Temajet Minigun 8mm rocket GasOp Rotary Firearm, ManPortable Size: Large Wt: 30lb + 20lb AmmoBay Damage: Variable 2d2~2d8, Ref DC20 Range Inc: 60' Area of Effect: 20x20 Ammo: 500 ROF: Auto 50/100 Special: Damage increases with range from the muzzle, 2d2 initial & pick up a die size each 5'sq upto 2d8, then stays at 2d8. Personal Temajet Rifle 10mm rocket Leveraction Firearm Size: Large Wt: 6lb Damage: Variable 2d2~2d10 Range Inc: 70' Ammo: 8 ROF: single ( or semi, GM discretion) Special: Damage increases with range from the muzzle, 2d2 initial & pick up a die size each 5'sq upto 2d10, then stays at 2d10. Temajet BattleRifle 12mm rocket GasOp Rifle Size: Large Wt: 12lb Damage: Variable 2d4~2d12 Range Inc: 100' Ammo: 10 blockclip ROF: Semi Special: Damage increases with range from the muzzle, 2d4 initial & pick up a die size each 10' upto 2d12, then stays at 2d12. This is a heavy duty Temajet rifle for close combat as well as range work, initial rocket pulse is more intense for better performance up close at the cost of recoil & gunweight. Exactly 'stabbist! You're the man. I read somewhere that it took around 20-30 meters before the projectile reached maximum velocity. Maybe it should be 10/15' instead of 5/10'? See, now that is the best part of the online rule developement, you can make any slight adjustments you need to fit the style of play you want. Sure, I'd still go with 1sq for the 8mm(pistol/minigun), but use 2sq for the 10mm Carbine & 3sq for the 12mm MBR. I figure since d20 is shrinking all ranges, the acceleration zone should get shrunk too. Here is a range chart using 5/10/15 and again with 10/15/20 fet to gain a die size.