Unaging characters - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Unaging characters

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Ragitsu
Dec 02, 2008 0:44:26 Asides from having tales to tell mortals, and possessing high mental stats in a youthful body, what is the draw of making a character Immune to aging?

Has anyone here ran or played in a campaign that had multiple parts, each spaced out by decades, hundreds or even thousands of years, and if so, was there any real roleplaying incentive to keep the same character?
#2
new_fashion_guy
Dec 02, 2008 8:34:17 I've not done this in D20, but we did it once in a Vampire game. It's kind of an interesting way to put together to very different campaign settings. For example, your GM could decide that his high-fantasy world was, in fact, Earth in the ancient past. Then, when things get boring, he could decide to bring the whole campaign forward into the modern era, with one of the previous PCs now a powerful and immortal NPC.

As far as bringing PCs forward (and retaining them as PCs), there comes the issue of experience. How could a person be hundreds of years old and NOT become 20th level + ? If the "future" version of the campaign is very high-powered, this works okay, but if not, it becomes difficult to suspend disbelief to have this four-hundred year old 5th level character who's equal to the 20 year old PC next to him.

Bringing powerful enemies forward works great as a story arch, however. Look at Lord of the Rings. Sauron created the rings of power in the second age and was faced down by elves and men. Centuries later, he's back, more powerful than ever, and ready to enslave the world, in which the forces of good are much weaker then they had previously been.
#3
shinobi_guyver
Dec 02, 2008 9:51:54
I don't know about drawbacks to being immortal, but perhaps you could look to the Highlander series for ideas?

From what I've seen of the movies and tv show, the Immortals prefer to hide themselves among the public and fit in, so even if one happened to fight with Napoleon Bonaparte, they would be smart enough not to say anything.

Also, they have a single major weakness (decapitation), so you might want to try adding something like that.
#4
tema69
Dec 02, 2008 10:09:03 Yea, I think it works best with BBEGuys being Immortal, Sauron-style. So the PCs battel BBEG in hifantasy D&D, kill/destroy/defeat him, and when they decide to play Steampunk, Modern, Future, or whatever, the BBEG is there, although preferrably changed (especially if the PCs defeated him by cutting of his hand for example).

The Experience Issue is simply too big to be circumvented easily.
Although one possibility could be imprisonment of some kind, sleep/hibernation/coma, or even just the fact that the world they live in might have become very dull and not so adventury (thus not gaining XP) - this works especially well if the PCs are high level enough not to gain XP by defeating low-CR encounters. That way, you'd have a high level immortal PC running around doing low-CR stuff, not gaining any real XP, until the game starts (preferrably with a "omg, the BBEG is back, and is creating higher CR-enemies").

But I think it could be really interesting to use that sort of stuff.
#5
shinobi_guyver
Dec 02, 2008 11:27:45
The Experience Issue is simply too big to be circumvented easily. Although one possibility could be imprisonment of some kind, sleep/hibernation/coma, or even just the fact that the world they live in might have become very dull and not so adventury (thus not gaining XP) - this works especially well if the PCs are high level enough not to gain XP by defeating low-CR encounters. That way, you'd have a high level immortal PC running around doing low-CR stuff, not gaining any real XP, until the game starts (preferrably with a "omg, the BBEG is back, and is creating higher CR-enemies").

Hmm... the Hibernation/Coma angle might be a good way to go. I remember watching an episode of The Outer Limits where an alien secreted a resin that could indefinitely preserve the living creature within it. Spray it on, wait several hundred years, and wake up slightly confused.

You could easily say that after a few years of activity, the PC's bodies begin to produce a cocoon/resin that puts them in a stasis for a set period of time. When they're awake/out of stasis, they're free to adventure and gain levels. Once a triggering event takes place (a certain number of levels gained, an eclipse, a comet, etc), the PCs must find an near unreachable location to go into stasis until they wake up again.

Doing that will make it seem like the PCs are immortal (especially if they're walking around New York in medieval armor or climbing down an icy mountain in desert robes), but they can still level up.

If you want, you could reduce the experience gained after they first "wake up" to reflect them readjusting to a new era.
#6
AnimeSniper
Dec 02, 2008 13:35:00 I'll have to find my NPC notes but I have a soldier who commandeered an experimental warship before going on a world burning spree... basically he went into croystasis only to awakened by the probable PC party...
#7
nclanceman
Dec 02, 2008 21:42:45
Asides from having tales to tell mortals, and possessing high mental stats in a youthful body, what is the draw of making a character Immune to aging?

Has anyone here ran or played in a campaign that had multiple parts, each spaced out by decades, hundreds or even thousands of years, and if so, was there any real roleplaying incentive to keep the same character?

Why would an immortal necessarily have higher mental stats? Common sense can't really be taught, so WIS increases are out, Knowledge increases aren't necessarily the same as INT increases, and after a while there may be entirely too much knowledge to recall with any real speed... and I don't really have an excuse for CHA increases.

Then again, when I think "immortal", I think of Lazarus Long and the Howard Families from Methuselah's Children. Did the people from Highlander ever get smarter? Or come to think of it, Eugene Tooms?
#8
Ragitsu
Dec 02, 2008 22:09:43 Going by the law of averages, if they hit all the normal aging bonus/penalty accruing parts of their life (Middle/Old/Venerable), they retain the gained Int/Wis/Cha and don't suffer the Str/Dex/Con loss. True, they might not be superbly gifted, but more often than not, they will be higher than a comparable mortal.
#9
new_fashion_guy
Dec 08, 2008 9:10:57
Common sense can't really be taught, so WIS increases are out, Knowledge increases aren't necessarily the same as INT increases, and after a while there may be entirely too much knowledge to recall with any real speed... and I don't really have an excuse for CHA increases.

I agree on Int and Cha, but Wisdom most definitely is learned by a lifetime of experience. That's why teen-agers tend (in general) to make off-the cuff decisions while adults mull over situations, considering the possible ramifications of their actions. Certainly a thousand years of learning from your mistakes would raise your Wisdom a couple of points? Even if one argues this in not true in real life, I think the fantasy genre more than supports it.
#10
Ragitsu
Dec 08, 2008 12:44:52 That's why, mechanically, the mental stats will increase.
#11
new_fashion_guy
Dec 08, 2008 13:26:34
That's why, mechanically, the mental stats will increase.

Given. I was simply responding to the other poster's logical deductions. This is something I could see someone house-ruling if they wanted, but you're correct on RAW.
#12
Ragitsu
Dec 08, 2008 13:42:58 Although, in the G.U.R.P.S. system, one actually loses IQ (basically INTelligence, but with other uses thrown in) at the highest age threshold.
#13
new_fashion_guy
Dec 08, 2008 13:56:07
Although, in the G.U.R.P.S. system, one actually loses IQ (basically INTelligence, but with other uses thrown in) at the highest age threshold.

I'd guess that's probably there to reflect the common effects of senility. I'd hope anyone lucky enough to be immortal would probably remain in control of their full faculties.
#14
Ragitsu
Dec 08, 2008 19:59:26 I guess it depends on the version of immortality you use. To contrast, in some mythos, being immortalized when young simply means you keep a young body, but in others, being immortalized as a, say, child, means you forever exist with a child's mind.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Ragitsu Dec 02, 2008 0:44:26	Asides from having tales to tell mortals, and possessing high mental stats in a youthful body, what is the draw of making a character Immune to aging? Has anyone here ran or played in a campaign that had multiple parts, each spaced out by decades, hundreds or even thousands of years, and if so, was there any real roleplaying incentive to keep the same character?
#2 new_fashion_guy Dec 02, 2008 8:34:17	I've not done this in D20, but we did it once in a Vampire game. It's kind of an interesting way to put together to very different campaign settings. For example, your GM could decide that his high-fantasy world was, in fact, Earth in the ancient past. Then, when things get boring, he could decide to bring the whole campaign forward into the modern era, with one of the previous PCs now a powerful and immortal NPC. As far as bringing PCs forward (and retaining them as PCs), there comes the issue of experience. How could a person be hundreds of years old and NOT become 20th level + ? If the "future" version of the campaign is very high-powered, this works okay, but if not, it becomes difficult to suspend disbelief to have this four-hundred year old 5th level character who's equal to the 20 year old PC next to him. Bringing powerful enemies forward works great as a story arch, however. Look at Lord of the Rings. Sauron created the rings of power in the second age and was faced down by elves and men. Centuries later, he's back, more powerful than ever, and ready to enslave the world, in which the forces of good are much weaker then they had previously been.
#3 shinobi_guyver Dec 02, 2008 9:51:54	I don't know about drawbacks to being immortal, but perhaps you could look to the Highlander series for ideas? From what I've seen of the movies and tv show, the Immortals prefer to hide themselves among the public and fit in, so even if one happened to fight with Napoleon Bonaparte, they would be smart enough not to say anything. Also, they have a single major weakness (decapitation), so you might want to try adding something like that.
#4 tema69 Dec 02, 2008 10:09:03	Yea, I think it works best with BBEGuys being Immortal, Sauron-style. So the PCs battel BBEG in hifantasy D&D, kill/destroy/defeat him, and when they decide to play Steampunk, Modern, Future, or whatever, the BBEG is there, although preferrably changed (especially if the PCs defeated him by cutting of his hand for example). The Experience Issue is simply too big to be circumvented easily. Although one possibility could be imprisonment of some kind, sleep/hibernation/coma, or even just the fact that the world they live in might have become very dull and not so adventury (thus not gaining XP) - this works especially well if the PCs are high level enough not to gain XP by defeating low-CR encounters. That way, you'd have a high level immortal PC running around doing low-CR stuff, not gaining any real XP, until the game starts (preferrably with a "omg, the BBEG is back, and is creating higher CR-enemies"). But I think it could be really interesting to use that sort of stuff.
#5 shinobi_guyver Dec 02, 2008 11:27:45	The Experience Issue is simply too big to be circumvented easily. Although one possibility could be imprisonment of some kind, sleep/hibernation/coma, or even just the fact that the world they live in might have become very dull and not so adventury (thus not gaining XP) - this works especially well if the PCs are high level enough not to gain XP by defeating low-CR encounters. That way, you'd have a high level immortal PC running around doing low-CR stuff, not gaining any real XP, until the game starts (preferrably with a "omg, the BBEG is back, and is creating higher CR-enemies"). Hmm... the Hibernation/Coma angle might be a good way to go. I remember watching an episode of The Outer Limits where an alien secreted a resin that could indefinitely preserve the living creature within it. Spray it on, wait several hundred years, and wake up slightly confused. You could easily say that after a few years of activity, the PC's bodies begin to produce a cocoon/resin that puts them in a stasis for a set period of time. When they're awake/out of stasis, they're free to adventure and gain levels. Once a triggering event takes place (a certain number of levels gained, an eclipse, a comet, etc), the PCs must find an near unreachable location to go into stasis until they wake up again. Doing that will make it seem like the PCs are immortal (especially if they're walking around New York in medieval armor or climbing down an icy mountain in desert robes), but they can still level up. If you want, you could reduce the experience gained after they first "wake up" to reflect them readjusting to a new era.
#6 AnimeSniper Dec 02, 2008 13:35:00	I'll have to find my NPC notes but I have a soldier who commandeered an experimental warship before going on a world burning spree... basically he went into croystasis only to awakened by the probable PC party...
#7 nclanceman Dec 02, 2008 21:42:45	Asides from having tales to tell mortals, and possessing high mental stats in a youthful body, what is the draw of making a character Immune to aging? Has anyone here ran or played in a campaign that had multiple parts, each spaced out by decades, hundreds or even thousands of years, and if so, was there any real roleplaying incentive to keep the same character? Why would an immortal necessarily have higher mental stats? Common sense can't really be taught, so WIS increases are out, Knowledge increases aren't necessarily the same as INT increases, and after a while there may be entirely too much knowledge to recall with any real speed... and I don't really have an excuse for CHA increases. Then again, when I think "immortal", I think of Lazarus Long and the Howard Families from Methuselah's Children. Did the people from Highlander ever get smarter? Or come to think of it, Eugene Tooms?
#8 Ragitsu Dec 02, 2008 22:09:43	Going by the law of averages, if they hit all the normal aging bonus/penalty accruing parts of their life (Middle/Old/Venerable), they retain the gained Int/Wis/Cha and don't suffer the Str/Dex/Con loss. True, they might not be superbly gifted, but more often than not, they will be higher than a comparable mortal.
#9 new_fashion_guy Dec 08, 2008 9:10:57	Common sense can't really be taught, so WIS increases are out, Knowledge increases aren't necessarily the same as INT increases, and after a while there may be entirely too much knowledge to recall with any real speed... and I don't really have an excuse for CHA increases. I agree on Int and Cha, but Wisdom most definitely is learned by a lifetime of experience. That's why teen-agers tend (in general) to make off-the cuff decisions while adults mull over situations, considering the possible ramifications of their actions. Certainly a thousand years of learning from your mistakes would raise your Wisdom a couple of points? Even if one argues this in not true in real life, I think the fantasy genre more than supports it.
#10 Ragitsu Dec 08, 2008 12:44:52	That's why, mechanically, the mental stats will increase.
#11 new_fashion_guy Dec 08, 2008 13:26:34	That's why, mechanically, the mental stats will increase. Given. I was simply responding to the other poster's logical deductions. This is something I could see someone house-ruling if they wanted, but you're correct on RAW.
#12 Ragitsu Dec 08, 2008 13:42:58	Although, in the G.U.R.P.S. system, one actually loses IQ (basically INTelligence, but with other uses thrown in) at the highest age threshold.
#13 new_fashion_guy Dec 08, 2008 13:56:07	Although, in the G.U.R.P.S. system, one actually loses IQ (basically INTelligence, but with other uses thrown in) at the highest age threshold. I'd guess that's probably there to reflect the common effects of senility. I'd hope anyone lucky enough to be immortal would probably remain in control of their full faculties.
#14 Ragitsu Dec 08, 2008 19:59:26	I guess it depends on the version of immortality you use. To contrast, in some mythos, being immortalized when young simply means you keep a young body, but in others, being immortalized as a, say, child, means you forever exist with a child's mind.