Unarmed Attacks

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

maxiac

Jan 20, 2009 22:00:30		I am trying to make a level 4 character with 3 levels in Strong and 1 level in Martial Artist. I have the following feats: Brawl, Improved Brawl and Combat Martial Arts. From the way I understand it, an attack made by a character with 16 Strength would get +5 to hit (3 from Str and 2 from Improved Brawl) and deal 1d8 + Str Modifier from Improved Brawl, 1d4 + Str Modifier from Combat Martial Arts, 1d6 for being a Martial Artist for a total of +5 to hit for 1d4 + 1d6 + 1d8 + 2 x Str Modifier damage. First of all I want to know if this is indeed how the feats stack, and also, if possible, what would happen if I chose to make 2 melee attacks in a single attack action, "dual wield fists" so to speak. Thank you.
#2

backstabbist

Jan 20, 2009 22:23:11 		"I am trying to make a level 4 character with 3 levels in Strong and 1 level in Martial Artist. I have the following feats: Brawl, Improved Brawl and Combat Martial Arts."


Tema summed it pretty well:
CMA: 1d4 Lethal or Nonlethal, character's choice.
Brawl: 1d6 Nonlethal, or Lethal with a -4 penalty to hit.
Improved Brawl: 1d8 Nonlethal, or Lethal with a -4 penalty to hit.

If you have 'em all:
Unarmed Lethal attack with no penalty to hit: 1d4 damage.
Unarmed Lethal attack with -4 penalty to hit: 1d8 damage.
Unarmed Nonlethal attack with no penalty to hit: 1d4 or 1d8 damage (MartialArtsMove, or BarroomBrawl).

Orion concurred
The letter of the feat seems clear. You get +1 to attack and +1d6 damage if you do non-lethal damage. If you try to do lethal damage, you say goodbye to that attack and damage bonus. This feat represents the kind of fighting you'd pick up at a bar brawl. It's powerful and it'll knock someone on their ass, but it's not generally fatal. It's very different than CMA, which is less powerful but more precise, and if executed correctly, can kill someone

and I did a followup
You are forgetting that CMA makes the attacker qualify as Armed,
allowing them to Threaten and AoO.

And that was the basis of much of the No Stack debate:
CMA makes Armed emptyhanded handed attacks with Lethal damage and Threat,
whereas Brawl makes Unarmed emptyhanded attacks for Nonlethal damage without Threat.

MA Living Weapon allows Armed emptyhanded attacks even when the attacker is not emptyhanded: Sheild & Flashlight and still get to make attacks without penalty with feet & elbows. It also imparts Ambedextrocity, you can carry a gun in your primary hand and make Living Weapon attacks with the other hand without offhand penalties. Finally, MA Living Weapon with TWF has no Offhand penalties that both hands are primary: Lower level guys can kick mucho azz with TWF Living Weapon.