Let's say you have a Mage with a Wealth score of 20. She makes 2nd-level scrolls, for fun, while watching TV (it relaxes her). The PDC for the stuff to make a 2nd-level scroll with is, let's say, 19 (15 + 2nd level spell + caster level 2).
As far as I can tell, that means she can buy the materials for that scroll over and over again, for ever, without her Wealth ever going down. She can go back to the same store fifty times a day and as long as the purchases are technically separate, she never actually spends any money.
Am I understanding the Wealth rules wrong, or is this kind of a problem?
So a scroll with a purchase DC 19 will cost the following depending on the character's Wealth:
Wealth 20: 1 point
Wealth 19: 1 point
Wealth 18: 2 points
Wealth 9: 2 points
Wealth 8: 1d6+1 points
Wealth 4: 1d6+1 points
Wealth 3: 2d6+1 points
See p. 91.
-K
You are thinkng of the StripClub Paradox:
You have an infinate supply of PDC1 bills to give to the strippers 1hr appart.
Which is ok, because the stripper gets no Wealth gain from each of your payments.
S'funny, most of the time that I think the Wealth system is broken, it turns out I've just forgotten a part of it.
-K
he should seek professional help ;)
Razoreface used to act as my Nerdlinger To English translator
I'm actually planning in a current game to try a variant on it whereby its DC15+ or 3/4 your current wealth bonus whichever is higher. That way someone with WB 20 can purchase a DC15 item without a problem while someone with WB40 can purchase up to a DC30 item without taking a significant hit. It may not work out but it seems more sensable to me.
As for the infinite dollar bill problem I treat it as being slightly fluid. Its not that you have an infinite amount of dollar bills but since the system doesn't track actual money just assets you can pay the stripper infinately because your not spending enough to make a difference to either of your circumstances. For instance up until recently there was someone in my area who earnt so much money they'd park their car illegally because it was more convenient and the fine wasn't enough to bother them.
So in my game the scrolls raw materials would be enough to hurt your characters liquid assets because 19 is a signifant expense for her WB of 20. Now somone with a WB of 26 would be able to make them relatively cheaply as a source of relaxation because they have enough money to buy the materials easily. Of course the flip side to that is that selling a PDC19 item isn't going to markedly increase their WB especially since its a break even proposition for her.
Like you realized, 3/4 PC Wealth would work far better. Considering a Wealth 14 guy can buy all the PDC13 stuff he wants, but a Wealth 30 guy loses points when buying PDC15, is silly.
Perhaps a roll to see if you lose a Wealth for PDCs above 3/4W, and still definately lose a wealth for PDCs over wealth. Id like to see the roll be around 50%, but not sure what we should roll. Since we dont want it to get easier as you get richer, it shouldnt be a WealthCheck.
:lightbulb
Chance of losing a Wealth point = PDC/Wealth % (& maybe a kindness -10%)
That should replace the PDC15 Extra Point rule.
Hard(70%) for a Wealth7 guy to buy a PDC5, but easy(16%) for a Wealth30 guy.
If that seems harsh, just put the -10% stipen on the chance PDC/Wealth -10% to make cheap stuff a gimme
Although I hadn't considered the DC14 guy buying a 13 cost item hmmmmm I think I'll just extend the 3/4 rule in my game to cover everything below your cash and see how it goes, I'm still debating on my variant of higher purchases. Currently its one of these.
Version 1
PDC = 3/4 or less of your current wealth bonus no lose of money because for you those payments are easily absorbed by your savings/income.
PDC = 3/4 to your current wealth bonus = lose 1 point because this is still an expensive purchase for your.
PDC = 1-10 points higher than your wealth bonus (assuming you make the check) = lose 2 points your needing to dig into your savings for these items.
PDC = 11-15 points higher than your wealth bonus = lose 1d6 points the kind of item you can probably only buy as a rare trip e.g. your annual trip to japan.
PDC = 16+ points higher than your wealth bonus = lose 2d6 points a major hit that may require a temporary loan you need to repay.
If the purchase would drop you to less than 0 (after rolling the actual loss) you can't afford it even if you make the roll. I allow loans (and I might occasionally make a sale or something) but I can't see most stores going sure you can pay us the extra 200 when you have the money for that new tv.
This is pretty close to the book except for amounts less than your WB and having a slight increase for all purchases over it. I actually prefer this version as I can't seem to balance the other one. I started off by basically adapting the money making of the profession check.
Version 2
PDC = 3/4 or less of your current wealth bonus no lose of money.
PDC = 3/4 to your current wealth bonus = lose 1 point
For every +5 over your WB lose another point.
e.g. if a person with WB of 14 wanted to buy a 19 PDC he'd need to make the check and if successful would lose 2 points 1 for it being more than 3/4 of his WB and another one for it being +5 more than his current amount.
This however doesn't seem enough a loss considering how much even one increase of a PDC can create e.g. from 18-19 your looking at a potential increase of 300 dollars and from 14-19 over a thousand. I have a savings of 300 dollars and only go down by a hundred even though I'm buying a 1,500 thosuand tv? So I thought maybe a 1 for 1 decrease e.g. WB 14 purchasing a PDC19 item goes down by 6, one because its more than 3/4 their WB and then another 1 for each PDC over it. Still doesn't seem right though. Honestly I'm not planning to use this version till I get it right but I'm happy with the 3/4 part.
To go back to the original example, an extremely rich wizard could conceivably pump out potions all day and never be any poorer for it. That's not only imbalancing, but also illogical.
I like the concept of Wealth, but logically, it needs to take into account how many of these purchases happen at the same time. Buying a cup of coffee every day doesn't kill you in the long term. Buy a round of cups of coffee for everyone in the bar ten times a days will break you, pretty quickly.
You can buy everyone at the store a coffe without any cost, as long as you pay for each one with its own swipe of the creditcard, but if you swipe the card just once at the end it will ding you PDC12 vs your Wealth10.
That is why I tried the %chance of losing wealth for buying a coffe: Sure you can buy a bunch of coffes if they each only have a 5% of dinging your WealthPoint. Keep rolling, be as generous as you dare, you probably can pull off buying 6 or 8 no sweat, but when the rugby team shows up... you feeling lucky trying to roll for another 15 cups at 5%?
It is LIKELY one cup wont ding your Wealth, and it is LIKELY doing it 12 times in a row will. This will allow folks to buy things with low risk of a Ding, but not abuse it because of the Ding Risk
Perhaps a time limit would make more logical sense and provide an in-game limit? In any given number of weeks (or game sessions), you can spend only x5 your Wealth bonus in PDC (or some other multiplier that makes sense). So if your Wealth is +10, you can buy a cumulative PDC 50 every two weeks, or every month, or something like that.
Wealth isn't just cash in the bank, after all. It's assumed you're drawing an income from your Occupation and you have access to credit cards and such, but most of those things work on a bi-weekly or monthly schedule.
That system would also open up the possibility of a feat that would increase the monthly Wealth multiplier to, say, x10 (or double the original, whatever we decide it should be). Call it "Independantly Wealthy" or something like that. Require Windfall as a prerequisite. The concept is that you do have a giant money-bin somewhere, therefore you can draw as much as you want from it at any given time, but it's also making money for you just by sitting there.
I'm not sure if that's less complicated, but it seems more realistic. What do you think?
Also that wizard would be poorer because potions would be more than 3/4 her WB and thus cost her a point, which I noticed I mis-represented in my earlier post (stupid tiredness. That +1 for purchases 3/4 to equal to your WB was meant to stack onto the higher ones. That is.....
PDC = 3/4 or less of your current wealth bonus no loss of money.
PDC = 3/4 to your current wealth bonus = lose 1 point
PDC = 1-10 points higher than your wealth bonus (assuming you make the check) = lose 1 point + the point for 3/4 = 2
PDC = 11-15 points higher than your wealth bonus = lose 1d6 points + 1
PDC = 16+ points higher than your wealth bonus = lose 2d6 points + 1
so essentially your looking at for any purchases over 3/4 your wealth a loss of 1, 2, 2-7 or 3-13.