Well, Mutants and Masterminds has taken me over lately, but I hardly consider it d20.
if we are sharing out feelings and opinions,
which all of us are entitled to have.....
Even though 4e is worse,
with its release by WoC to nail 3x material's coffins and dance on 3x's grave,
they couldnt easily say that this particular 3x material is ok while all other 3x must be spat upon,
in my opinion.
Relatively speaking:
Looking back at what micro$oft said about Windows98, did they praise it or bash it?
When they were selling w98 they told us how great it was,
followed by them bashing w98 to make wMe appear
As for WoC giving Modern some love,
they could have fixed a lot of problems (brokeness) in their release of Future Tech,
but instead just putty & painted over many of the 'core' problems.
I just don't get why Hasbro doesn't direct Wizards to produce a Modern Ruleset for Transformers and G.I. Joe...
I agree with backstabbist... Saga edition is great for StarWars, and D&D is great for Fantasy, but neither is all that great at running a game set in the modern world. Oh sure, with some effort it can be managed... but most people don't have the time or inclination to put in that amount of effort.
Yea, I agree with that. I suppose I don't really notice Saga's inability to run "Modern" games quite as well due to the fact that I only really ever used d20 Modern to run sci-fi and Contemporary Horror games. I now use a heavily house ruled Monte Cook's World of Darkness to run Contemporary Horror, and Saga to run sci-fi. I think Saga could run a Modern game very well... but it would require a real pain in terms of stating vehicles. The system would run the game just fine. Weaponry would be really easy to stat. But making vehicles for Modern equipment would be a pain. If they released a Saga system book full of 20th-21st century vehicles, weapons, and equipment, I would buy it...
In the meantime, though, there is no shortage of third-party producers creating a d20 products of every kind (see my sig, and many others). Exercise a little judgement, test things before you launch into long-term campaigns, and you can have a blast playing d20 for decades and do it for free. I don't see this as a bad thing, personally.
The fact they dropped it like a ton of bricks is no surprise, it was never intended to be that well carried at all in the first place.
The trouble is, at base, that Wizards just doesn't care as much about the brand. It's an afterthought at best, well below Star Wars games. d20M was a sandbox to play with new design concepts, and as such it worked really well. They used it to test out 3.5. I don't think they were ever really interested in supporting it past that, and I can't really blame them considering that D&D makes so much more money for them.
In the meantime, though, there is no shortage of third-party producers creating a d20 products of every kind (see my sig, and many others). Exercise a little judgement, test things before you launch into long-term campaigns, and you can have a blast playing d20 for decades and do it for free. I don't see this as a bad thing, personally.
I couldn't agree more. d20 does deserve more. I understand that WotC needs to stick with the moneymakers (Magic, DnD, Star Wars), but I wish they could be morucid about the way they cancel stuff.
I don't think d20 would have worked in 4e. At a recent RPGA event, I played a sanctioned 4e game and it was little more than a board game using miniatures as game pieces. Somehow I wish and hope that d20 doesn't become a game strictly for mini's and creative dungeon tiles.
d20, though a highly cinematic game system cannot compete with a game like DnD or DnD Miniatures. A brief glance at the DnD webpage will display several links that say "write for us" or "submission guidelines." Those two links on the DnD site are, in a sense, the straws that broke the camel's back. As long as Dungeon and Dragon magazines are actively soliciting for new talent, the less time is available to write products for d20 modern or Star Wars. This not bad. It is great for dungeon and Dragon, but it just shows that there is little room left for a universal system like d20 modern.
Having said that, I also don't know why this game doesn't get more "love." It has a loyal following on its message board, a continual stream of new supplements and access to some of Wizards' most effective designers. I think that the world needs to hang on tightly to all of their d20 modern materials (and all of the 3.0/3.5 stuff), because it is just a fact that there will always be a recalcitrant old player who will always want to play in the "old way."
And there is lots of love for it. That love just doesn't come from Wizards.
It's a cinematic system, which is how it should have been marketed from the start. It replicates the feel of action movies and it's best played in "tweaked" versions for different genres.
I've heard that DnD4e is also a "cinematic" system. Could you explain that to me?
Thank you
I've heard that DnD4e is also a "cinematic" system. Could you explain that to me?
Thank you
1) More HP and more ways to heal up after combat means that your fights will involve some tension and back-and-forth with your foes, and even one bad combat won't end your day (unless you're dead).
2) Dailies. You know when you see movies where the bad guy has the good guys over a barrel, and somehow they pull out these great moves and beat him back? They were using their Dailies. You save your Dailies for when you need them, which is often when you or someone important is about to die. Thus cinematic.
3) At-wills. Unless monsters or circumstances deliberatly thwart you, your main schtick lasts all day long. Magic energy, hit and run tactics, etc.
4) Action Point. Similar to #2. When your back is against the wall, you can spend an action point to get another action. It usually manifests as a fast flurry of attacks, or running away just quick enough.
1) More HP and more ways to heal up after combat means that your fights will involve some tension and back-and-forth with your foes, and even one bad combat won't end your day (unless you're dead).
More HP and the ability to heal to full between battles doesn't add tension at all. Quite the opposite actually. Sometimes it can even cause combat to drag out to tedious lengths. The only time I ever felt any sort of "tension" during a 4e game was when I almost ran out of healing surges.
I agree that High HP games can lead to low tension due to inevitability, but it also gives both sides options to adapt a new strategy (run, regroup, focus fire, etc.). Low HP games often do not have the opportunity to adapt after the battle is started. One side often ends up severely crippled after 1 round, and while the fight ends quicker, it is pre-determined based mostly on dice roll and happenstance.
The tension you get in a low HP game is constant in and out of combat. Often, death can come from falling off the roof of your house as much as being killed by your worst enemy. Thus, it is often out of the hands of the PC and DM to control tension, unless some dice-fudging is done.
Rich
If you have any ideas for the Land of Nod, or any questions, feel free to post them in the Land of Nod thread. I'm always looking for more input (as its something of a work in a constant process of production).
(and yes i omitted RPG objects on purpose)
"MOAR!!!!"
Mother Of All Rpgs? ;)
I know it's a terrible plug, but they do have some rather nice d20 modern materials there and, if your own gaming materials are good and up to quality, it's possible for anyone to publish there. I think this a significant way to really see how d20 modern is holding its interest among current game designers and authors.
rihch442, I know what it's like to have my statements dismantled, but I have to point out the flaws here. Please don't take it personally. It's just I come across such statements frequently.
I don't think d20 would have worked in 4e. At a recent RPGA event, I played a sanctioned 4e game and it was little more than a board game using miniatures as game pieces. Somehow I wish and hope that d20 doesn't become a game strictly for mini's and creative dungeon tiles.
So because they used miniatures, it's not an RPG? There is nothing in the 4e rules or its mechanics that requires you to use miniatures. You can just as easily play it without miniatures. You should try it in a private game some time without the minis. It's just as playable, if not more so for its compartmentalization, as 3.5 was. Board game rules are interchangeable for any RPG. You can use any minis rules you like if you like playing with minis. The only thing you need to stick to is cones and areas.
d20, though a highly cinematic game system cannot compete with a game like DnD or DnD Miniatures. A brief glance at the DnD webpage will display several links that say "write for us" or "submission guidelines." Those two links on the DnD site are, in a sense, the straws that broke the camel's back. As long as Dungeon and Dragon magazines are actively soliciting for new talent, the less time is available to write products for d20 modern or Star Wars. This not bad. It is great for dungeon and Dragon, but it just shows that there is little room left for a universal system like d20 modern.
How is that "the straw that broke the camel's back?" Dragon Magazine is a D&D magazine. They don't cater to other games like they used to, so yes, they're going to ask for D&D writers. Besides, they have always operated like that. They may call for D&D writers, but they also only ever ask D&D players to be judges for RPG events, or for Magic players when looking for judges for their other card games that have nothing to do with Magic. Besides, Rodney and Gary have put out open calls for writers for Star Wars, and that material gets posted for free. We don't have to wait for it in Dragon. When d20 Modern gets revamped, and I haven't heard otherwise, they will ask for help for Modern. How is it that there is no room for a universal system? It covers everything D&D and Star Wars don't.
So because they used miniatures, it's not an RPG?
That's not what he/she said, though. S/he complained that it was "little more than" a board game. Now, s/he might be right or wrong about that assessment, and I agree that playing a sample game at a con is not the best way to get to know a system, but still. It does seem like you dumbed-down the original statement in order to make it look foolish. Not attacking. Just saying.
So because they used miniatures, it's not an RPG? There is nothing in the 4e rules or its mechanics that requires you to use miniatures. You can just as easily play it without miniatures. You should try it in a private game some time without the minis. It's just as playable, if not more so for its compartmentalization, as 3.5 was
Actually, that sounds like a great idea.
Not every 'challenge' has to be combat, try run a game that uses 3 or 4 skill challenges for each combat challenge. You skyrocket in levels without the minis getting all them scars
That's not what he/she said, though. S/he complained that it was "little more than" a board game. Now, s/he might be right or wrong about that assessment, and I agree that playing a sample game at a con is not the best way to get to know a system, but still. It does seem like you dumbed-down the original statement in order to make it look foolish. Not attacking. Just saying.
I don't think I "dumbed it down" or made her look foolish, and that certainly wasn't my intent and rihch442 didn't take it personally. I believe my statement stands, but I won't argue it beyond this. If you think I dumbed it down, it's your prerogative to believe so. What's important is that rihch442 saw where I was coming from and didn't feel the need to pick at minor shades in meaning. She didn't find offense and showed a good spirit about it. Something we could all learn from.
It was not a "sample Game" or a demo. It was an officially sanctioned tournament with a judge, official dungeon maps and assigned parties. It really was kind of fun, but I didn't fare well in all the heavy competition, though.
I don't play RPGA events, but I haven't heard much positive stuff come from those who have. Apparently they tend to be much more hack n slash than your typical campaign.