What would the CR for these be? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

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#1 3p1t4ph Oct 29, 2008 20:55:27	For a zombie survival campaign, I made a template for three kinds of undead reanimated by parasitic organisms using their bodies to move about and spread to other humans. Show Undead One HD: 2d12+3 (15hp) Type: Undead Speed: 30 Feet Defense: 11 (Touch 9) Attacks: Bite +0 Melee (1d4P+1+Infection), Slam +1 Melee (1d6B+2) SQ: Infection (Ex), Move or Attack Action Only (Ex) Allegiances: None Saves: Fort +0, Ref -1, Will +3 AP: 0, 0/level Reputation: +0* Ability Scores: Str 13, Dex 8, Con -, Int 1, Wis 10, Cha 1 Skills: Loses all skills. Feats: Loses all feats, gains Toughness. Possessions: As normal. Treated as when living if a Spot check used to identify the former individual. Undead Two* HD: 2d12+3 (15hp) Type: Undead Speed: 30 Feet Defense: 13 (Touch 11) Attacks: Bite +0 Melee (1d4P+Infection), Slam +1 Melee (1d6B+2) Full Attack: Bite -2 Melee (1d4P+Infection) plus Slam -1 Melee (1d6B+2) SQ: Infection (Ex), Fast Healing 1 Allegiances: None Saves: Fort +0, Ref +1, Will +3 AP: 0, 0/level Reputation: +0* Ability Scores: Str 13, Dex 12, Con -, Int 1, Wis 10, Cha 1 Skills: Loses all skills. Feats: Loses all feats, gains Toughness and Improved Initiative. Possessions: As normal. Treated as when living if a Spot check used to identify the former individual. Undead Three* HD: 2d12+3 (15hp) Type: Undead Speed: 30 Feet Defense: 13 (Touch 11) Attacks: Bite +1 Melee (1d4P+1+Infection), Slam +2 Melee (1d6B+4) SQ: Infection (Ex), Ressurector (Ex) Allegiances: None Saves: Fort +0, Ref +1, Will +3 AP: 0, 0/level Reputation: +0* Ability Scores: Str 15, Dex 12, Con -, Int 2, Wis 10, Cha 1 Skills: Loses all skills. Feats: Loses all feats, gains Toughness, Improved Initiative and Run. Possessions: As normal. Treated as when living if a Spot check used to identify the former individual. Infection (Ex):* If a subject is bitten by an undead, they must succeed a Fortitude save (DC 10 + Bite Damage) or suffer one of three effects, decided by rolling d%. 001-080: Victim take 2 points of Constitution drain. When the victim dies, they are reanimated as a type one undead in 1d4 rounds. 081-090: Victim takes 1 point of nonlethal damage per hour. When the victim becomes unconscious, they take 1d4 Constitution damage/round, returning as a type two undead the round following when their Constitution reaches 0. Killing the subject prematurely prevents reanimation. 091-100: Victim begins spasming, bleeding from their orifices of the face and body, and scratching uncontrollably at their skin. They take 1d6 unhealable damage per round until they die, immediately returning as a type three undead. Ressurector (Ex): When a type three undead is slain, its body must be burned or torn apart in some way. Otherwise, it will regain 1 hit point/round until it it back to its full health, at which point it will stand up and continue to function as normal.
#2 nclanceman Nov 02, 2008 0:36:07	I'd put Type One at CR 2 with the other two at CR 3. The templates are all LA +0, except Ravager at LA +1.
#3 3p1t4ph Nov 02, 2008 9:30:47	Thanks NCL. I was thinking of making people who die from the initial infection in this game (About 80% of humanity in a global pandemic which spreads like wildfire giving everyone it infects symptoms similar to what happens to a type three infection without the dying part, goes dormant for a year, then resurfaced by killing everyone infected.) become, about half the time, an even weaker form of undead, a Type Zero, which cannot be transmitted because they're the weakest of the weak. This would basically be the CR 1/2 Zombie template used in the Core Rulebook, no ifection powers or anything. Seem good?
#4 kuma_kode Nov 06, 2008 21:49:45	I agree with Lanceman, CR 2 for One and Two, While Three would probably be CR 3. You could possibly make One a CR 1 (though it would be a high 1, Constitution drain is a bit nasty, and the save could get kinda steep), since it appears to pretty much be a CR 1/2 zombie + disease. A few things about the disease that, while not wrong, are abnormal. Typically disease and poison saves are equal to 10 + 1/2 the monster's HD + The creature's Constitution modifier (or Charisma if the creature lacks a Constitution score). How you have it now generates a DC averaging around 13, which is higher than what it normally would be (but still relatively easy to overcome). I'm not really sure a DC 13 disease would spread so fast, because it would be easy to beat. A plague that infects and kills nearly anyone it comes into contact with would have a DC near or above 20. Maybe just assign a DC to the disease itself and not base it on the attacker at all? This would give you that zombie movie feel, that desperate OH CRAP OH CRAP DON'T GET BIT scenario. Since you said you were considering having 80% of the zombies NOT have this power, it would be a nice occasional addition to really scare them. The players probably won't notice much of a difference between a zombie and a zombie with a DC 13 disease. Just some suggestions. Also, effect two would not work in d20 modern without a modification to the nonlethal system. Nonlethal damage does not stack like in Dungeons and Dragons, it interacts with the massive damage threshold. An attack must deal enough damage in a single instance to overcome the threshold and force a save; anything below is completely ineffective. So, dealing a single point every hour is meaningless to any creature with 2 or higher Constitution. Perhaps make it cumulative? Wow, I type a lot.
#5 3p1t4ph Nov 07, 2008 8:39:08	I agree with Lanceman, CR 2 for One and Two, While Three would probably be CR 3. You could possibly make One a CR 1 (though it would be a high 1, Constitution drain is a bit nasty, and the save could get kinda steep), since it appears to pretty much be a CR 1/2 zombie + disease. A few things about the disease that, while not wrong, are abnormal. Typically disease and poison saves are equal to 10 + 1/2 the monster's HD + The creature's Constitution modifier (or Charisma if the creature lacks a Constitution score). How you have it now generates a DC averaging around 13, which is higher than what it normally would be (but still relatively easy to overcome). I'm not really sure a DC 13 disease would spread so fast, because it would be easy to beat. A plague that infects and kills nearly anyone it comes into contact with would have a DC near or above 20. Maybe just assign a DC to the disease itself and not base it on the attacker at all? This would give you that zombie movie feel, that desperate OH CRAP OH CRAP DON'T GET BIT scenario. Since you said you were considering having 80% of the zombies NOT have this power, it would be a nice occasional addition to really scare them. The players probably won't notice much of a difference between a zombie and a zombie with a DC 13 disease. Just some suggestions. Also, effect two would not work in d20 modern without a modification to the nonlethal system. Nonlethal damage does not stack like in Dungeons and Dragons, it interacts with the massive damage threshold. An attack must deal enough damage in a single instance to overcome the threshold and force a save; anything below is completely ineffective. So, dealing a single point every hour is meaningless to any creature with 2 or higher Constitution. Perhaps make it cumulative? Wow, I type a lot. Well, the reason the bites don't always work is simple: The initial infection didn't spread through bite, and those still alive are somewhat resilient to it, thus the DC 13 or so per bite. Not to mention the occasional Ravager, who will make it his job to pin you down and bite you until you're half-dead, and then if you're not infected by then just keep you pinned down and eat you alive. However, given that DC20 would indeed still pose a threat when their save bonuses cap, I think I'll move them all up to that. And on the nonlethal, I'll just convert it over to be cumulative. And I was also thinking of converting the type one infection to be 2 Con damage, so a person would revitalize after a while, but repeated infected bites at type 1 will make it hard to survive long.

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

3p1t4ph

Oct 29, 2008 20:55:27

For a zombie survival campaign, I made a template for three kinds of undead reanimated by parasitic organisms using their bodies to move about and spread to other humans.

Show

Undead One
HD: 2d12+3 (15hp)
Type: Undead
Speed: 30 Feet
Defense: 11 (Touch 9)
Attacks: Bite +0 Melee (1d4P+1+Infection), Slam +1 Melee (1d6B+2)
SQ: Infection (Ex), Move or Attack Action Only (Ex)
Allegiances: None
Saves: Fort +0, Ref -1, Will +3
AP: 0, 0/level
Reputation: +0*
Ability Scores: Str 13, Dex 8, Con -, Int 1, Wis 10, Cha 1
Skills: Loses all skills.
Feats: Loses all feats, gains Toughness.
Possessions: As normal.

*Treated as when living if a Spot check used to identify the former individual.

Undead Two
HD: 2d12+3 (15hp)
Type: Undead
Speed: 30 Feet
Defense: 13 (Touch 11)
Attacks: Bite +0 Melee (1d4P+Infection), Slam +1 Melee (1d6B+2)
Full Attack: Bite -2 Melee (1d4P+Infection) plus Slam -1 Melee (1d6B+2)
SQ: Infection (Ex), Fast Healing 1
Allegiances: None
Saves: Fort +0, Ref +1, Will +3
AP: 0, 0/level
Reputation: +0*
Ability Scores: Str 13, Dex 12, Con -, Int 1, Wis 10, Cha 1
Skills: Loses all skills.
Feats: Loses all feats, gains Toughness and Improved Initiative.
Possessions: As normal.

*Treated as when living if a Spot check used to identify the former individual.

Undead Three
HD: 2d12+3 (15hp)
Type: Undead
Speed: 30 Feet
Defense: 13 (Touch 11)
Attacks: Bite +1 Melee (1d4P+1+Infection), Slam +2 Melee (1d6B+4)
SQ: Infection (Ex), Ressurector (Ex)
Allegiances: None
Saves: Fort +0, Ref +1, Will +3
AP: 0, 0/level
Reputation: +0*
Ability Scores: Str 15, Dex 12, Con -, Int 2, Wis 10, Cha 1
Skills: Loses all skills.
Feats: Loses all feats, gains Toughness, Improved Initiative and Run.
Possessions: As normal.

*Treated as when living if a Spot check used to identify the former individual.

Infection (Ex): If a subject is bitten by an undead, they must succeed a Fortitude save (DC 10 + Bite Damage) or suffer one of three effects, decided by rolling d%.
001-080: Victim take 2 points of Constitution drain. When the victim dies, they are reanimated as a type one undead in 1d4 rounds.
081-090: Victim takes 1 point of nonlethal damage per hour. When the victim becomes unconscious, they take 1d4 Constitution damage/round, returning as a type two undead the round following when their Constitution reaches 0. Killing the subject prematurely prevents reanimation.
091-100: Victim begins spasming, bleeding from their orifices of the face and body, and scratching uncontrollably at their skin. They take 1d6 unhealable damage per round until they die, immediately returning as a type three undead.
Ressurector (Ex): When a type three undead is slain, its body must be burned or torn apart in some way. Otherwise, it will regain 1 hit point/round until it it back to its full health, at which point it will stand up and continue to function as normal.

nclanceman

Nov 02, 2008 0:36:07

I'd put Type One at CR 2 with the other two at CR 3. The templates are all LA +0, except Ravager at LA +1.

3p1t4ph

Nov 02, 2008 9:30:47

Thanks NCL.

I was thinking of making people who die from the initial infection in this game (About 80% of humanity in a global pandemic which spreads like wildfire giving everyone it infects symptoms similar to what happens to a type three infection without the dying part, goes dormant for a year, then resurfaced by killing everyone infected.) become, about half the time, an even weaker form of undead, a Type Zero, which cannot be transmitted because they're the weakest of the weak.

This would basically be the CR 1/2 Zombie template used in the Core Rulebook, no ifection powers or anything. Seem good?

kuma_kode

Nov 06, 2008 21:49:45

I agree with Lanceman, CR 2 for One and Two, While Three would probably be CR 3. You could possibly make One a CR 1 (though it would be a high 1, Constitution drain is a bit nasty, and the save could get kinda steep), since it appears to pretty much be a CR 1/2 zombie + disease.

A few things about the disease that, while not wrong, are abnormal. Typically disease and poison saves are equal to 10 + 1/2 the monster's HD + The creature's Constitution modifier (or Charisma if the creature lacks a Constitution score). How you have it now generates a DC averaging around 13, which is higher than what it normally would be (but still relatively easy to overcome). I'm not really sure a DC 13 disease would spread so fast, because it would be easy to beat. A plague that infects and kills nearly anyone it comes into contact with would have a DC near or above 20. Maybe just assign a DC to the disease itself and not base it on the attacker at all? This would give you that zombie movie feel, that desperate OH CRAP OH CRAP DON'T GET BIT scenario.

Since you said you were considering having 80% of the zombies NOT have this power, it would be a nice occasional addition to really scare them. The players probably won't notice much of a difference between a zombie and a zombie with a DC 13 disease.

Just some suggestions.

Also, effect two would not work in d20 modern without a modification to the nonlethal system. Nonlethal damage does not stack like in Dungeons and Dragons, it interacts with the massive damage threshold. An attack must deal enough damage in a single instance to overcome the threshold and force a save; anything below is completely ineffective. So, dealing a single point every hour is meaningless to any creature with 2 or higher Constitution. Perhaps make it cumulative?

Wow, I type a lot.

3p1t4ph

Nov 07, 2008 8:39:08

I agree with Lanceman, CR 2 for One and Two, While Three would probably be CR 3. You could possibly make One a CR 1 (though it would be a high 1, Constitution drain is a bit nasty, and the save could get kinda steep), since it appears to pretty much be a CR 1/2 zombie + disease.

A few things about the disease that, while not wrong, are abnormal. Typically disease and poison saves are equal to 10 + 1/2 the monster's HD + The creature's Constitution modifier (or Charisma if the creature lacks a Constitution score). How you have it now generates a DC averaging around 13, which is higher than what it normally would be (but still relatively easy to overcome). I'm not really sure a DC 13 disease would spread so fast, because it would be easy to beat. A plague that infects and kills nearly anyone it comes into contact with would have a DC near or above 20. Maybe just assign a DC to the disease itself and not base it on the attacker at all? This would give you that zombie movie feel, that desperate OH CRAP OH CRAP DON'T GET BIT scenario.

Since you said you were considering having 80% of the zombies NOT have this power, it would be a nice occasional addition to really scare them. The players probably won't notice much of a difference between a zombie and a zombie with a DC 13 disease.

Just some suggestions.

Also, effect two would not work in d20 modern without a modification to the nonlethal system. Nonlethal damage does not stack like in Dungeons and Dragons, it interacts with the massive damage threshold. An attack must deal enough damage in a single instance to overcome the threshold and force a save; anything below is completely ineffective. So, dealing a single point every hour is meaningless to any creature with 2 or higher Constitution. Perhaps make it cumulative?

Wow, I type a lot.

Well, the reason the bites don't always work is simple: The initial infection didn't spread through bite, and those still alive are somewhat resilient to it, thus the DC 13 or so per bite. Not to mention the occasional Ravager, who will make it his job to pin you down and bite you until you're half-dead, and then if you're not infected by then just keep you pinned down and eat you alive.

However, given that DC20 would indeed still pose a threat when their save bonuses cap, I think I'll move them all up to that.

And on the nonlethal, I'll just convert it over to be cumulative. And I was also thinking of converting the type one infection to be 2 Con damage, so a person would revitalize after a while, but repeated infected bites at type 1 will make it hard to survive long.