Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 kamo7s Feb 11, 2008 0:49:32	I'm about to start a WWII campaign and I was wondering if someone has some suggestion on any good links/sites I could use for reference material. Thank you in advance!!
#2 tema69 Feb 11, 2008 5:04:45	We made some extensive rules for a d20 WW2 Setting that I have never used yet. It's in my signature (or here : http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=14067762 ).. It has both vehicles, artillery, firearms, even new classes and prestige classes. If you're not into ballistics, you might want to ignore the discussion about the artillery range and damage. If you have any feedback, It'd be great! I hope you can use it.
#3 kamo7s Feb 11, 2008 9:49:11	I made some extensive rules for a d20 WW2 Setting that I have never used yet. It's in my signature (or here : http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=14067762 ).. It has both vehicles, artillery, firearms, even new classes and prestige classes. If you're not into ballistics, you might want to ignore the discussion about the artillery range and damage. If you have any feedback, It'd be great! I hope you can use it. Oh yea. I've already saved your thread to my comp and am definitely going to use it for reference!! I will let you know how they work once we get started. I'm going to get the d20 Past book this week, but I wasn't sure how many weapons and such they have in it. You wouldn't happen to know a good place to find maps of WWII Europe would you? I've found a few, but they're kinda small. I could probably resize them in Photoshop, but I'm afraid they'd become too grainy and unable to read. The tentative plot of my game is going to be a special unit of soldiers sent to stop Hilter's experiments with the occult. There are some books about Hitler and the occult. This will be my second attempt at running a d20 game. The last one ended after two sessions because one of the players wanted to argue rules with me....even though he hadn't read any of them.
#4 tema69 Feb 11, 2008 13:12:29	Hmm. How large maps are you thinking off? I recently wrote 20 pages about Blitzkrieg, and I found a good book with all kinds of maps from the european theatre. It's danish though. But I guess I could scan some of the maps and mail 'em to you. I think I have a map of Poland on my computer. Where are you thinking of placing the game? Btw. I have a bit of stuff regarding occult ww2 stuff lying around. I'll see if I can find it. Edit: I've found the stuff, but it was more fantasy than "horror"/occult. I can mail it to you if you'd like.
#5 kamo7s Feb 11, 2008 14:07:30	Hmm. How large maps are you thinking off? I recently wrote 20 pages about Blitzkrieg, and I found a good book with all kinds of maps from the european theatre. It's danish though. But I guess I could scan some of the maps and mail 'em to you. I think I have a map of Poland on my computer. Where are you thinking of placing the game? Btw. I have a bit of stuff regarding occult ww2 stuff lying around. I'll see if I can find it. Edit: I've found the stuff, but it was more fantasy than "horror"/occult. I can mail it to you if you'd like. The maps don't have to be huge, just big enough so I can lay them in the middle of the table and people can see them without too much difficulty. I wish I had a laptop that I could display them on and zoom in as needed. I am still contemplating what areas. I'm imagining they'll have to get behind enemy lines quite a bit. But I'm also considering putting them in France, Great Britain and other allied areas. I'm not planning on this solely depending on the occult aspect. I thought I would drop them into the middle of some of the battles too. Towns like Carentan, Burgundy, Bastonge and other places. I did find a good place for some of the small town maps..... the overview maps from the first two incarnations of the Call of Duty FPS games. I still have about a month before we start, but since this is my first major game as a GM I think it's going to take me a while to get everything sorted out. I appreciate you help and advice!!!
#6 tema69 Feb 12, 2008 8:40:25	The maps don't have to be huge, just big enough so I can lay them in the middle of the table and people can see them without too much difficulty. I wish I had a laptop that I could display them on and zoom in as needed. What I meant was what scale you wanted? Is it a battlemap? Or a map covering hundreds of miles? Laptops are great. I use mine myself when I GM. I am still contemplating what areas. I'm imagining they'll have to get behind enemy lines quite a bit. But I'm also considering putting them in France, Great Britain and other allied areas. Consider Scandinavia (Finland was at war with the soviet union and allied with the germans, occupied Norway had nazi nuclear research facilities, and if you're looking for more occult stuff, Hitler was fascinated by the Viking Mythology, like the Spear of Odin, etc. etc.) [Note: Watch/read Hellboy for some fun ideas] I'm not planning on this solely depending on the occult aspect. I thought I would drop them into the middle of some of the battles too. Towns like Carentan, Burgundy, Bastonge and other places. I did find a good place for some of the small town maps..... the overview maps from the first two incarnations of the Call of Duty FPS games. Have you heard of Company of Heroes? It's a great WWII strategy game, and you could use many of the maps there as battlemaps. http://guides.gamepressure.com/companyofheroes/ has some screenshots of the maps. I still have about a month before we start, but since this is my first major game as a GM I think it's going to take me a while to get everything sorted out. I appreciate you help and advice!!! I'm glad I can help. PS. Look at the mutation rules from d20 Future (and d20 Apocalypse) to create cool enemies. It can be found in the MSRD as well. You could also include crude cybernetics. If you could PM me your email adress, I could take some (better than the link's) screenshots of some CoH maps.
#7 johannixx Feb 13, 2008 1:33:25	A lot of people knock it, and it's definitely not a mature system in terms of mechanics, but I rather liked Weird War II: Blood on the Rhine. It had a lot of base material and ideas that allowed me to run a pretty fun WWII occult game.
#8 kamo7s Feb 16, 2008 3:34:51	I found some really good resources for basic gear tonight while surfing the net. Here's a list I compiled. The Medic's gear goes into some greater detail only because I wanted make sure that I had an idea what they really carried. If my players asked if they could do something or not, I could tell them yes or no at a glance and not get involved in a lengthy discussion. • M43 field jacket and hood • Cotton HBT* Trousers • Cotton HBT* Shirt • Field cap • M43 Combat Service Boots • Wool Socks • Rain poncho • Wool sleeping bag & Case • M3 gas mask (along with its M6 carrier) • M1 Helmet with Net and Chin Strap Winter Gear: • M34 Wool Shirt • M37 Wool Trousers • Winter Combat “Tanker” Jacket • Wool Overcoat * HBT = Herrringbone Twill   • M23 cartridge belt • M28 pack • M6 G/M bag • M42 F/A pouch • Carlisle bandage • Ammo bandoleer • M43 Entrenching Tool & Cover • M10 canteen & cover (Aluminum Canteen with Black Bakelite Cap) • Mess-kit with KFS • M42 First Aid Pocket (Includes Carlisle Bandage and 1 Morphine Syrette) • M3 Knife and Scabbard • Watch • Pocket Knife • Zippo Lighter • Wash Towel • TL-122D Flashlight (with Blue, Red, Clear lens filters and spare bulb) • M23 cartridge belt • M36 suspenders • M36 Field Bag • M42 F/A pouch • Carlisle bandage • Ammo bandoleer • M43 Entrenching Tool & Cover • M10 canteen & cover (Aluminum Canteen with Black Bakelite Cap) • Mess-kit with KFS • M42 First Aid Pocket (Includes Carlisle Bandage and 1 Morphine Syrette) • M3 Knife and Scabbard • Watch • Pocket Knife • Zippo Lighter • Wash Towel • TL-122D Flashlight (with Blue, Red, Clear lens filters and spare bulb)   • M28 Haversack • M36 Suspenders • 2 Canvas Pouches • 2 Cantle Ring Straps • 2 Litter Carrying Straps • 2 Litter securing Straps (for Litter Bearers), • M36 Pistol Belt • M10 canteen with Cover & Cup (Aluminum Canteen with Black Bakelite Cap) • M10 Canteen, Unmounted for tending casualties • Medkit (see below) • M42 First Aid Packet (for personal use) • M10 Entrenching Tool & Cover • M1 Helmet with Red Cross markings • TL-122D Flashlight (with Blue, Red, Clear lens filters and spare bulb) • Watch • Pocket Knife • Zippo Lighter • Wash Towel Medkit Contents: • 6 Black Hard Rubber Vials, in pouch, filled with Pill, Compound, Cathartic, Tablet, Mixture, Glycyrrhiza & Opium Compound, Tablet, Acetophenetidin, Tablet, Ipeca & Opium Powder, and Tablet, Quinine Sulfate, the sixth Vial was a reserve component, and could contain additional medication • 2 First-Aid Dressings, Small • 4 Compressed Absorbent Cotton • 4 Packets Plain Sterilized Gauze 36-in x 36-in • 8 Compressed Gauze Bandage 3-in x 6 yds • 4 Compressed Triangular Bandage • Metal Container with 12 Iodine Swabs • Sulfa Packet with 5 Paper Envelopes each containing 5 Grams Sulfa in Sterile, Double-Wrapped Envelopes with Shaker Top • Pencil, Lead usually with protector cap • Emergency Medical Tags Book containing 20 ID Tags • 12 Safety Pins, fixed on a carton • Packet, Ammonia Inhalants with 10 Tubes (Smelling Salts) • Field Tourniquet • Bandage Scissors • Burn Injury Set • Eye Dressing Set Adavanced Medkit Contents (contains all of the above in addition to): • 12 Folding Tablet Boxes intended for packing various extra pills and/or tablets • Surgical Plaster 1-in x 5 yds packed on spool for fixing bandages • Hypodermic Set, Complete with Metal Container, Hypodermic Syringe, 12 Extra Needles, 6 Tubes containing 20 Tablets each of Apo morphine Hydrochloride, Atropine Sulfate, Cocaine Hydrochloride, Morphine Sulfate, Nitroglycerin, and Strychnine Sulfate • Hypodermic Needle Sterilizer • Thermometer, protected by metal sleeve • 5 White Compressed Gauze Bandages • Medical Officer Canvas Instrument Case: o Metal Container with 2 Scalpels o 3 Forceps o Sharp Operating Scissors o 3 Packets Surgeon Needles o 3 Packets Suture Silk   • Pistol belt • M36 suspenders • M18 holster • M23 ammo pouch (Holds two magazines) • M42 F/A pouch • Carlisle bandage • Compass pouch • M10 canteen & cover (Aluminum Canteen with Black Bakelite Cap) • Map case • Mess-kit with KFS • M42 First Aid Pocket (Includes Carlisle Bandage and 1 Morphine Syrette) • M3 Knife and Scabbard • Watch • Pocket Knife • Zippo Lighter • Wash Towel • TL-122D Flashlight (with Blue, Red, Clear lens filters and spare bulb) • M17 Field Binoculars   • M23 cartridge belt (10 pockets, one M1 Garand clip per pocket) • 1 Riggers pouch (Holds two grenades or six M1 carbine mags or eight M1 Garand clips) • M23 cartridge belt for a BAR belt (Six pocket belt holds 12 magazines for the BAR) • M38 Barbed Wire Cutters & Pouch • Grenade Pouch (Holds three grenades in separate compartments) • T-Shovel short with Cover • Pistol Belt (comes standard with officer equipment package) • Shelter, Half • Wool Blanket • SCR-300 Backpack Radio • SCR-536 Walkie Talkie • C-rations (enough for three to twenty-one days) Notes: • The M36 Suspenders have snap hooks to support the pistol belt or the cartridge belt and "D" rings in front to attach the M36 Field Bag.
#9 tema69 Feb 17, 2008 14:00:34	This is some good stuff right there. I had a similar list, but this one is better... Do you mind if I... *snatch*
#10 kamo7s Feb 17, 2008 14:07:55	This is some good stuff right there. I had a similar list, but this one is better... Do you mind if I... *snatch* Not at all! But there are a few things I'm going to add to the packages. I'll let you know when they're updated.
#11 tema69 Feb 17, 2008 14:47:02	Great, thanks ;)
#12 kamo7s Feb 17, 2008 16:27:34	Alrighty, I updated the list with a few items. Each one now comes with the "L" shaped flashlight. The Officer package comes with the field binoculars. I added some of the items from the other packages to the medic package. I also added a couple of items to the optional equipment. As I find more items that would seem to fit with the packages, I'll add them.
#13 tema69 Feb 17, 2008 17:04:16	Here's what I wrote down for my WW2 d20 Project. It's made for roleplaying purposes, so it's not as complete as yours. The stuff written in (...) are either what they represent in gaming equivalence, or the number of items per man or per squad. The information is also loosely based on various games (Call of Duty, Brothers in Arms, Company of Heroes, Day of Defeat, etc. etc...) as well as wikipedia, sproe (saving private ryan online encyclopedia), etc. The categories are based on the different classes I created, instead of historical categories. EUROPEAN BATTLEFIELD TROOP EQUIPMENT British Infantry Equipment: Standard Rifleman & Medic Brodie Helmet (Steel Helmet) Smock (Fatigues) Assault Jacket (Mesh Vest) Haversack (Backpack) Bayonet (Dagger) Entrenching Tool Combat Boots Gasmask Sleeping Bag K-rations (3) Portable Stove and cooking gear Medic Kit (Medic Only) First Aid Kit (Half the squad) Grenades (2) Radio (1 per squad) Raincoat Lee-Enfield Rifle Machinegunner Standard Equipment except: Bren light machinegun (instead of Lee-Enfield) Engineer Standard Equipment except: Sten submachinegun (instead of Lee-Enfield) Crowbar Flashlight Rope, 60 feet Bolt Cutter Caltrops Demolitions Kit Tape Multipurpose Tool PIAT (1 per squad) Sniper Standard Equipment except: Scoped Lee-Enfield Rifle (instead of Lee-Enfield) Ghillie Suit or Helmet (Sniper or Designated Marksman) Scout Standard Equipment except: Sten submachinegun (sometimes silenced) (instead of Lee-Enfield) Ghillie Suit Bolt Cutter (1 per scouting party) Multipurpose Tool Tent (big enough to accomodate squad) Dagger, Punching Field Medic As Medic except: Surgery Kit Field Commander Standard Equipment except: Revolver No2 Mk. IV with laniard (instead of Lee-Enfield) Smoke Grenade (1) Flares (3) Flaregun with laniard Binoculars Whistle Compass Sabre with laniard (optional) Swaggerstick (optional) Paratrooper Standard Equipment except: Thompson submachinegun (instead of Lee-Enfield) Main and Reserve Parachute PIAT (1-2 per squad) Dagger, Punching Shocktrooper Standard Equipment except: Heaviest armor available (often metal breastplate or medium bulletproof). Bren Light machinegun or Mossberg (Bren often in Carbine configuration) Revolver No 2 Mk. IV PIAT (1 per squad) American Infantry Equipment: Standard Rifleman & Medic M1 Helmet (Steel Helmet) Smock (Fatigues) Haversack (Backpack) Bayonet (Dagger) Entrenching Tool Combat Boots with Leggings Gasmask Sleeping Bag K-rations (4) Portable Stove and cooking gear Medic Kit (Medic Only) First Aid Kit (Half the squad) Grenades (2) Radio (1 per squad) Raincoat M1 Garand Rifle (1 man per squad uses a BAR instead) Machinegunner Standard Equipment except: Browning M1919 machinegun (instead of M1 Garand) Sometimes given a Colt M1911 pistol Engineer Standard Equipment except: M3A1 Grease Gun (instead of M1 Garand) Crowbar Flashlight Rope, 60 feet Bolt Cutter Caltrops Demolitions Kit Tape Multipurpose Tool Sniper Standard Equipment except: Scoped M1903 Rifle (instead of M1 Garand) Ghillie Suit or Helmet (Sniper or Designated Marksman) Ranger Standard Equipment except: Thompson submachinegun (instead of M1 Garand) Colt M1911 pistol Grenades (4) (instead of 2 Grenades) Satchel Charge (1) Light or Medium Bulletproof armor M9 Bazooka (1 or 2 per squad) Scout Standard Equipment except: M1 Carbine (instead of M1 Garand) Ghillie Suit Bolt Cutter (1 per scouting party) Multipurpose Tool Tent (big enough to accomodate squad) Field Medic As Medic except: Surgery Kit Field Commander Standard Equipment except: Thompson or M1 Carbine (instead of M1 Garand) Colt M1911 Pistol Smoke Grenade (1) Flares (3) Flaregun with laniard Binoculars with laniard Whistle Compass Paratrooper Standard Equipment except: M1 Garand or M1 Carbine M1C Helmet (Steel Helmet) Combat Gloves, Horsehide Main and Reserve Parachute Half 2-man tent M9 Bazooka (1 per squad) BAR (1 per squad) Mines (2 per squad) Shocktrooper Standard Equipment except: Heaviest armor available (often metal breastplate, medium bulletproof or HAS). BAR, M1941 Johnson Rifle, Thompson, Mossberg or Ithaca 37 (often in Carbine version) (instead of M1 Garand) M9 Bazooka (1 per squad) Colt M1911 Pistol Grenades (4) Wehrmacht Infantry Equipment: Standard Rifleman & Medic Stahlhelm (Heavy Steel Helmet) is given to soldiers of second level or higher. Field Cap M44 Jacket (Fatigues) Haversack (Backpack) Utility Knife (Knife) Sharpened & Serrated Entrenching Tool (Spade) Jackboots Gasmask Sleeping Bag Trail rations (2) Medic Kit (Medic Only) First Aid Kit (half the squad) Grenades (2) Radio (1 per squad) Panzerfaust 30 (2 per squad) Raincoat K98k Rifle Machinegunner Standard Equipment except: MG42 (instead of K98k) Luger P08 Engineer Standard Equipment except: MP40 (instead of K98k) Crowbar Flashlight Rope, 60 feet Bolt Cutter Caltrops Demolitions Kit Tape Multipurpose Tool 3 Mines Sniper Standard Equipment except: Scoped K98k Rifle (instead of K98k) Ghillie Suit or Helmet (Sniper or Designated Marksman) Scout Standard Equipment except: K98k, G41 or G43 (before 1941, 1941-1942, and after 1943, respectively, depending on when the setting is) Ghillie Suit Bolt Cutter (1 per scouting party) Multipurpose Tool Tent (big enough to accomodate squad) Field Medic As Medic except: Surgery Kit Field Commander Standard Equipment except: Luger P08 or Walther P38 Pistol (instead of K98k) Smoke Grenade (1) Flares (3) Flaregun with laniard Binoculars with laniard Whistle Compass Paratrooper Standard Equipment except: M1935 Steel Helmet (improved Stahlhelm) FG42 (1943 and forth) (instead of K98k) Walther P38 Main and Reserve Parachute Half 2-man tent Mines (2 per squad) Panzerschreck (2 per squad) MG42 (1 per squad) Bayonet Note: The Wehrmacht Fallschirmjägere had access to all kind of equipment, and were often assigned special equipment corresponding to the mission. However, they were always paradropped without their main equipment. This came afterwards, airdropped as well. But until then, they were only armed with their pistol and their bayonet as well as some grenades. Shocktrooper Standard Equipment except: Heaviest armor available (often metal breastplate or HAS). Stg44, Carbine MG42, G43, or Flamethrower (instead of K98k) Grenades (4) Panzerfaust 100 (1 per two troopers) Panzerschreck (1 per squad) Mauser C96 Notes: Field Testers use standard infantry equipment and whatever they can get their hands on. Infiltrators are equipped per assignment, and do not have a standard set of equipment. When "as [insert other category here] except" is written, it means that the stuff written is added (except when noted) to the other list. This sounds very confusing... Gee.. I hope you understand.
#14 johannixx Feb 18, 2008 0:43:53	Interesting list, but very few Fallschirmjagers were issued FG-42s, and then only late in the war (late '43 and afterwards). FJs dropped with their gear in containers, and had to retrieve them. So FJs had pistols and hand grenades (and a few had MP-38 or MP-40 subguns) when they hit dirt, and had to retrieve their Kar98k rifles and MG-34 machine guns from the containers. By the time they were issued FG-42s, they were no longer being used for large parachute insertions, only small unit airborne ops, but mainly they were used as elite infantry.
#15 tema69 Feb 18, 2008 1:36:10	Interesting list, but very few Fallschirmjagers were issued FG-42s, and then only late in the war (late '43 and afterwards). FJs dropped with their gear in containers, and had to retrieve them. So FJs had pistols and hand grenades (and a few had MP-38 or MP-40 subguns) when they hit dirt, and had to retrieve their Kar98k rifles and MG-34 machine guns from the containers. By the time they were issued FG-42s, they were no longer being used for large parachute insertions, only small unit airborne ops, but mainly they were used as elite infantry. Isn't that exactly what I wrote here? The Wehrmacht Fallschirmjägere had access to all kind of equipment, and were often assigned special equipment corresponding to the mission. However, they were always paradropped without their main equipment. This came afterwards, airdropped as well. But until then, they were only armed with their pistol and their bayonet as well as some grenades. And yes, FG42s were rare, but they present heroes with an interesting and lethal weapon in the hands of their enemies. Remember, my WW2 Project emphasizes on cinematic roleplay (not necessarily verbal though) instead of exact historical accuracy (even tough I have tried to keep it as realistic as possible). Therefore, German Paratroopers will mostly be treated as having an FG42. But, what you say also applies to the engineers, the scouts, etc. etc. Most soldiers during WW2 used the main weapon of their army (M1 Garand, Lee Enfield, K98, etc.), but I felt that a WW2 d20 RPG needed a little versatility and variation so as not to become: "Scout PC: I shoot him with my M1. Paratrooper PC: I shoot him with my M1. Medic PC: I shoot him with my M1. etc. etc..." ...Instead, autofire would be much more like a "class" ability for example, and German Paras would be the nasty elite opponents they should be. Edit: By the time they were issued FG-42s, they were no longer being used for large parachute insertions, only small unit airborne ops Which would be perfect for PC Encounters.
#16 johannixx Feb 18, 2008 2:02:52	I understand the desire to customize specific, memorable opponents with unique weaponry. One German unit I made up for my PCs to fight was led by a grizzled old veteran of the Eastern Front, who packed a Mauser Schnellfeuer machine pistol along with his FG-42, and the unit's sniper used a Mosin-Nagant M1891/30PU instead of a German rifle. It makes a more memorable fight than "Yet another bunch of Krauts shoot at us with Mauser rifles and MP40 subguns". I'm just **** about having the right guns at the right time periods ;)
#17 tema69 Feb 18, 2008 2:30:13	So... I changed "From 1942 and forth" to "From 1943 and forth". Better now? As far as I'm concerned, the FG42 in my list was a real gun at the correct time period. So, you've GM'ed WW2 sessions? What kind of adventures did you use?
#18 johannixx Feb 20, 2008 0:55:21	I had a campaign that ran for a few levels, using Weird War II adventures. The first adventure was the starter adventure from the Blood on the Rhine core rulebook, and then I started into the adventures from Hell in the Hedgerows. I planned a few more missions, including an adaptation of the Call of Duty "Pegasus Bridge" mission (complete with 18 overhead projector sheets covered in a sprawling map), but the group lost interest and wanted to go back to medieval fantasy. They did have one very memorable fight against a rogue clay golem conjured by a local rabbi to fight the nazis (Panzerfausts hurt clay golems quite well), as well as an 'enemy of my enemy is my friend' fight while paired up with some Fallschirmjagers against a sentient hedgerow. I was looking forward to some more supernatural goodness. We had a British field medic who was fairly handy with a double-barrel shotty, a Scottish lieutenant who prided himself on his skills with both Thompson and basket-hilt claymore, and a Jewish-American paratrooper who was lost behind enemy lines during the night prior to D-day. After the first three adventures, they were clandestinely recruited to serve in the top secret Allied "OSI", or Office of Supernatural Investigations, and help stop the nazi occultists. I tried to emphasize the suspense and horror aspects as much as, if not more than, the combat. However, I learned a few things. You really have to enforce encumbrance rules. The Scot tried to get away with packing a basket-hilt claymore, a dirk, a sword bayonet, a No.1 Mk.III SMLE rifle with muzzle cup for grenade launching, a Thompson SMG, a Mk.I Bren, a Browning Hi-Power, a Webley Mk. VI .455 revolver, at least 100 rounds of ammunition for each weapon, ten hand grenades, and two Panzerfaust-60 rocket launchers. At least the paratrooper just packed an M1 Carbine and 1911, and the medic packed a captured Walther P-38 and a double-barrel hunting shotgun she took from a collaborating French farmer. I looked up the weight of all that stuff, and when it still only worked out to a medium load for the Scot, I tacked on an additional -4 penalty to all Hide, Move Silently, Tumble, Climb and Swim checks, Reflex saves, and attack rolls due to the cumbersome nature of all that crap hanging off him.
#19 tema69 Feb 20, 2008 1:16:49	When I started writing my WW2 Project, I ran into that problem too. Therefore, I came up with this rule: WEAPON ENCUMBRANCE A character can only carry a certain amount of equipment. This rule applies to weapons also, and a character can never carry more weapon weight than he can carry on a light load without automatically taking the heavy load penalties. A character can carry the following: 1 Huge + 1 Large + 1 Small. Huge = 2 Large Large = 2 Medium Medium = 2 Small Small = 2 Tiny For example, you could carry 2 Large, 1 Medium, 2 Small, and 2 Tiny weapons.
#20 kamo7s Feb 21, 2008 12:47:58	There are some rule changes that we're making too. One of my players is a GM, and a very good one...quite possibly the best I've ever had the chance to play with, he's also written his own game. He's been helping me a bit with some rules that just seem broken. Lucky for me I can trust him and know that he won't use "Ultimate Player Knowledge", so I can discuss the game with him and he won't ruin it for me. One of the things we're changing is the way feats give skill bonuses. We've always thought that if you get a feat that gives you a bonus to, let's say, your hide. At first level that's a fairly good bonus to get. But as you gain more ranks in that skill and say you dump your stat bonus at 4 into Dex. That +2 bonus isn't such a big impact if you take it at higher levels. So what were going to try is this: If you take a feat that gives you a skill bonus at a higher level, you take the level your character is when you take the feat divided by half (rounded down), that is your skill bonus. For example, if you take Stealthy at level 9. You divide 9 in half and round down, now you have a +4 in Hide and Move Silent from now on. That number will never increase from that point on. But that bonus will never fall below +2, which means if you take it at first level you still get the +2. This change ONLY applies to SKILL bonuses. So you won't get that same increase if you get the Improved Initiative or any of the Saves bonuses. There are some other things they're getting but my "assistant" is typing up his notes that he took last week when we were discussing things. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ On another note, how do you guys deal with players that try to get things their way? We have a player that loves to try to weasel things and twist them to get the other GM, and now me, to give in so he can have something. Said player is wanting to play the Sniper/Scout. He called me the other day and says regarding his weapon choice, "I took the Barrett .50." To which I said, "I have a list of weapons that were available during WWII." He countered with, "This could be a prototype." And I repeated my first statement (I wonder where I got that list from... Hmmmmmmmm). I just took a look at the weapon list and it looks like he's getting the M1903 Springfield which, as Tema69 points out, It is now used as a sniper rifle by the US military.. He won't be happy, but I'm running the game. I swear I need to find the hat I had made for whatever GM was running at the time. It simply states "Because I'm the GM. That's why." Speaking of equipment lists.... You don't mind if I snatch the list you post above do you Tema? I didn't put much thought into the British and German equipment.
#21 tema69 Feb 21, 2008 16:33:25	I really can't see the problem with your player. He want's a Barret .50 cal... That's cool. If you play a setting that's after the 1980's! Just have him look up the guns he wants on wikipedia or something. If they didn't exist during WW2, he can't have 'em. Anyway, Blood and Guts have som great stuff for WW2 on RPGObjects.com ... For under 10$, you can get a lot of cool stuff there. Some of the weapon damage needs a bit of rework, but it's pretty good. Anyway, if your player wants an antimaterial rifle, he should look at the Boys AntiMaterial Rifle... It's pretty much what he wants I guess (if he wants to carry 40 lb. around as a scout - I'd rather go with a scoped Lee-Enfield or Mosin Nagant rifle). The skill bonus seems like a good idea. I've thought of stuff like that myself. Weapon Focus kinda sucks at higher levels too. It should be +1/2, +1/3 or +1/4 BAB. I do agree with you, Saving Throws and Initiative bonuses shouldn't change. Please grab it. I posted it here for your convenience. ;)
#22 johannixx Feb 21, 2008 22:48:58	Tema69 beat me to it. Offer him the 40-lbs Boys rifle, no scope, and take very meticulous notes for encumberance purposes. The ammo ain't lightweight either, and trying to use a 40-lbs rifle in mobile combat is nuts. I've shot a Boys, rechambered for .50 BMG to avoid the need for NFA paperwork, and it was not something I'd want to fire from the shoulder. I'd even treat it as a Huge weapon, requiring a mount (even if that's just a bipod fired from a prone or supported sitting position) in order to fire it. When your munchkin finds that he's a sitting duck after failing all those Hide checks with a -20 modifier for shooting (and if it's -20 for shooting a bow, what should it be for touching off an anti-tank rifle?!?), he may see the wisdom in firing one shot from the Springfield and using a move action to relocate away from the soon-to-be-incoming machinegun fire.
#23 kamo7s Feb 22, 2008 1:02:58	I made a mistake in the skills thing. It should be 50% max ranks in the skill. So say you're 9th level, you have a max rank of 13. Your bonus would be half of 13 rounded down = +6 to your skill(s). I also like the idea of the Weapon Focus. I might adopt that too.
#24 tema69 Feb 22, 2008 5:01:35	The WW2 Boys Rifle, Antitank fired a .55 cartridge, and if you look at the Blood and Guts stats, they deal around 5d6 points of damage, and, of course, are Huge. I'd go with a M1903 Springfield, a Lee-Enfield or a Mosin Nagant anytime. The reduced damage is really worth it considering that you can fire it "on the move" (relocate after each shot). I might use your skill system for my new setting - guess what? an alternative WW2 setting! (My soon-to-be players suggested it by themselves - I luv 'em). Now that you've fixed it, it seems better. What do you think of the Weapon Focus? How should it scale compared to your BAB? 1/2? 1/3? or 1/4?
#25 kamo7s Feb 22, 2008 10:03:08	I might use your skill system for my new setting - guess what? an alternative WW2 setting! (My soon-to-be players suggested it by themselves - I luv 'em). Now that you've fixed it, it seems better. What do you think of the Weapon Focus? How should it scale compared to your BAB? 1/2? 1/3? or 1/4? I was thinking 50% of the current level at which they take Weapon Focus. That keeps the math simple. I still don't think it would make much of an impact if it was based on your BAB.
#26 backstabbist Feb 22, 2008 13:15:07	There were a ton of AntiTank rifles in all kinds of small cannon calibers (yes, I call the 50BMG a small cannon cal), even before wwII. Back then the tanks & armor werent such high RHA numbers, so ATRifles worked ok against the 1/2" or 1" armor of the day. Nobody walked around with a Boys or Lahti for general shooting at guys. Well, except maybe Konrad's Komandos of insane Uber Infantry- If they fix bayonets, would they be Pikemen?
#27 tema69 Feb 23, 2008 6:03:30	Dude, what are these guys?
#28 johannixx Feb 23, 2008 10:00:00	Russians with PTRS antitank rifles?
#29 tema69 Feb 23, 2008 11:07:07	Oh really? And if you saw a picture of pink-painted Bradley IFVs, would you simply say "That? That's just a whole buncha pink Bradleys". What I meant was, how come there's a huge bunch of soviet troops with antitank guns?
#30 backstabbist Feb 23, 2008 13:24:22	100 guys with ATRifles is cheaper & faster to produce than 4guys with a tank: 3Panzers vs 3 russian tanks is bad, 3Panzers vs 300 ATRiflemen is a cakewalk for the russians Most heavy weapons units break into smaller groups & get assigned to other units/orgs as missions require. But you dont want your Smart3/Ded3/FS1 on the recieving end of a 6gun squad DTapping 14mm at him... and hiding behind cover aint an option most of the time when they shoot 14mmAP ... Oh, so you know about the PsyOps Pink Armor program? Biggest mistake ever was going from Pink Sheridans to Pink Bradleys
#31 tema69 Feb 23, 2008 14:38:00	Alright, I just wanted to be sure that these guys didn't run around as a single group. Actually, I thought the german tanks were pretty much inferior to the russian's? ... Oh yeah, I forgot about that one. :D I should've come up with a better example.
#32 kamo7s Feb 23, 2008 16:54:08	I was browsing for images of WWII documents one night and I found a whole bunch of papers someone was selling on eBay. So I bought them, just so I can get an authentic feel during the game. When I asked the guy who was selling it why he would sell a part of his family history, this was his reply: I pick up all kinds of different prints/papers at garage sales--the particular sale I got these at was a bit weird, the dad had passed, and, the son selling didn't seem to give a rats ass about selling family items. That's a shame that someone doesn't care enough about their family or history to have that kind of attitude. Now I have part of this jerks family history and I appreciate it much more than he did and I wasn't even around then... heck my dad wasn't even a twinkle in his dad's eye when these papers wear first typed up. But back to the subject at hand. We were talking about gear...this image is one of the documents I received in that package.
#33 tema69 Feb 23, 2008 17:36:46	What a shame, and what a cool buy!
#34 johannixx Feb 23, 2008 19:55:32	So, did he have to turn in that can of meat when he was discharged?
#35 kamo7s Mar 01, 2008 23:20:20	A week to go... and of course I'm getting nervous. I want to make the game fun and tell a good story. I think I'm going to start out with them landing on the shores of North West Africa. The Lybia, Tunisa and Egypt area. I tell you what, I found a pretty good site for battle maps of the areas. http://www.dean.usma.edu/history/web03/atlases/ww2%20europe/ww2%20europe%20war%20index.htm Check them out. They've got some troop movement notifications, but those can be ignored for game purposes. I'm fairly handy with Photoshop, so I might be able to erase some of that stuff. Any last minute tips for a first time GM?
#36 johannixx Mar 02, 2008 1:25:26	Don't be afraid to take control. If you let your players walk all over you, it makes everything go downhill. That doesn't mean you have to be a nazi about it, but don't let them dictate rules to you. Also, don't think too linearly. Have backup plans for every possible outcome, and still be ready to think on your feet. PCs rarely follow carefully-laid plans without deviation.
#37 tema69 Mar 02, 2008 8:12:41	Yeah, the maps in my book are similar to those on the website, although slightly more detailed. If youre players are like mine, I have only one advice: be prepared for anything. ;) @ Johannixx: Agreed. Btw. Is d20 Past any good?
#38 hinthas Mar 03, 2008 14:05:33	Oh, so you know about the PsyOps Pink Armor program? Biggest mistake ever was going from Pink Sheridans to Pink Bradleys As the available Psyop representative (cause I think Morgan Keyes is deployed) we would like to inform the public that there is NO Pink Armor Program as it clashes with war-torn environments. I believe the file picture above is from our Fushia Armor Program. Which ALSO does not exist. Thank you, move along. Doug
#39 backstabbist Mar 05, 2008 1:06:41	These are not the pink tanks you are looking for.
#40 kamo7s Mar 05, 2008 1:22:08	What pink tanks? I don't see any pink tanks.
#41 tema69 Mar 09, 2008 18:56:17	Speaking of tanks, I've come to wonder how the rules are/should-/could be concerning tankturrets or tankhulls turning? Thanks to tracks, a tank needs not to move to turn, but it should take some time to do so? And what about the turret?
#42 kamo7s Mar 11, 2008 16:35:25	Well, first game is done. Went pretty well. I thought it was going a bit too fast so I slowed things down by throwing a couple of obstacles in their paths. But at the end of the night, they had arrived at the town where the (recurring) villain was and we ended up having to leave them in a cliff hanger. They've been fighting Nazi's and zombies, I ended it just as another 3 Nazi's rounded the corner. It was funny, there was one guy that was fighting a zombie and he could not hit it for the life of him... but the zombie wasn't hitting him either. It was a riot!
#43 tema69 Mar 12, 2008 2:22:09	My group and I started our game the day before yesterday. We had the same issue, with the party sniper not being able to hit anything at all. He ended using half his Action Points in frustration.
#44 natanax Mar 12, 2008 9:55:09	I'm doing a WW2 Alternate History game set immediately after the war in Germany ended and during the reconstruction. It has to do with stopping roving gangs of bandits, holding back Soviet Agression and the disarmament of Nazi Superweapons. Unfortunately I have no idea how to start it off with a bang, any suggestions?
#45 tema69 Mar 12, 2008 12:09:25	Just random thoughts: A secret nazi superweapon has gone off in a bunker somewhere. All the people nearby (be it the allied trying to disarm it, or civilians, or whatever) become infected with some virus. Then add any consequence of this virus (zombies, mutants, mindslaves, whatever)... Perhaps some "roving gangs of bandits" did this, or maybe soviet operatives? It could be arabs angry about how they were treated by the Allied (no credit for them participating as soldiers, the Jews were relocated to Palestina which partially became Israel). The last possibility should have the PCs think twice before shooting them (unless they are/play mindless americans).
#46 kamo7s Mar 12, 2008 17:12:56	Oooooooooooooooo... I like that Tema!!! I might work some of that into my game. I watched a great show on the History Channel called "Weird Weapons". They were talking about the secret weapons that the German's were developing. Stuff like a Vortex Gun, Sonic weapons and some other odd things. Right now, my guys are trying to figure out why the dead are rising from the grave around this little French town deep behind enemy lines. They haven't spotted the Zombie Master that's causing the trouble. But they're going to get a glimpse of him as he hops in a truck and heads out of town. He will return later in the game.
#47 tema69 Mar 13, 2008 9:03:21	Oooooooooooooooo... I like that Tema!!! I might work some of that into my game. I watched a great show on the History Channel called "Weird Weapons". They were talking about the secret weapons that the German's were developing. Stuff like a Vortex Gun, Sonic weapons and some other odd things. That sounds real cool. Maybe we should start posting cool nazi secretive stuff here too? That'd be a great source of inspiration since we are at least 3 GMs playing a WW2 oriented scenario... Right now, my guys are trying to figure out why the dead are rising from the grave around this little French town deep behind enemy lines. They haven't spotted the Zombie Master that's causing the trouble. But they're going to get a glimpse of him as he hops in a truck and heads out of town. He will return later in the game. Main villains who escape are great! My PCs just took out a Halftrack and a Kubelwagen. They are now pretty much mobile although the Kubelwagen could use some repairs (it took a couple of 7.92mm bursts from one of the PCs who tryed to take out the driver). They will soon encounter some nazi covert operatives who will have clues leading to a facility where the nazis are experimenting with cloning and creating supersoldiers. A demon has been summoned to aid with his dark powers. The PCs'll expecting to be attacked by the supersoldier clones, but will actually be attacked by the animated remains of the failed experiments. Did I mention that should they get the clues right, they'll have a flamethrower shooting pesticide (and the demon is an insectoid-thingy). I'm really looking forward to that. ;)
#48 backstabbist Mar 17, 2008 2:15:17	"roving gangs of bandits" Cannible Bandit platoons all carrying 14mm AntiTank Rifles? Hmmm? Perhaps with lasers strapped to thier heads... cause even bandits deserve a hot meal:evillaugh Actually, one ofthe best parts of secret weapon labs is not the best weapons to be produced, but the hillarity of the PCs getting to experience the Less Than Successful weapon ideas that never got past initial prototype. Such as the GlueThrower, AntiTank Lunchmeat, Battlefield CommandEnhancer (think nuclear bullhorn), DemonAttractor/Repeller (work in progress, only attracts), and all the other projects that should never have been concieved, less built. They dont call them Mad Scientists because they were angry ;)
#49 natanax Mar 17, 2008 9:30:12	"roving gangs of bandits" Actually, one ofthe best parts of secret weapon labs is not the best weapons to be produced, but the hillarity of the PCs getting to experience the Less Than Successful weapon ideas that never got past initial prototype. and all the other projects that should never have been concieved, less built. They dont call them Mad Scientists because they were angry ;) I love this idea and I was looking for a way to put more humor into my poat-war game, thanks for the ideas. (pinky goes to corner of mouth)
#50 hinthas Mar 18, 2008 16:50:42	FWIW there was an older movie called the Talisman. I remember it played on HBO in the early '80's and then caught it again on TBS/WGN later on in a much tamer format. Still at Blockbuster or other movie places. This flick had to do with Nazi's, occult, and a few other escapable details that seem fuzzy at the moment. Good movie though. I'd watch it again. YMMV, Doug
#51 backstabbist Mar 19, 2008 2:24:06	I for one tink its kinda unfair that just because we won the war we get to bury all the Allies occult activities. Nobody talks about the OSS PattonBots or the Druidic Commandos the Brits fielded, or the Tuskegee Airdroids (segregation was their cover to keep their cyber existance secret) They took so many DNA samples trying to clone Audie Murphy that he ended up the midget he appeared as in the movies... there was hardly anything left in the poor guy
#52 natanax Mar 19, 2008 10:53:18	I highly reccomend anything Hellboy for cool WW2 era Superweapons and Occult stuff, it's all well researched and nifty. Also the Spin-Off series BPRD is excellent in this regard because it deals with the BPRD as more of a paramilitary group and is far more an ensemble story than Hellboy ever was.
#53 Giradius Mar 19, 2008 18:52:11	I recommend "The Spear" by James Herbert, and also the games Return to castle Wolfenstein, and Bloodrayne for Nazi occult elements. The book Invisible Eagle (I forget the author) explores the subject of nazi occultism in more detail.
#54 backstabbist Mar 20, 2008 1:35:25	The PCs could be in the middle of dealing with German occultisms and run into US fielded Hopi/Comanche/Aztec Occultisms from projects with burned files & disapeared personel. But then youd have to try to say Ixxa'quatlochoctal or some such all the time
#55 Giradius Mar 20, 2008 10:19:33	In my own work on the subject of an occult/mad science World war 2 game, I had the Allied forces use the supernatural and mad science just as often as the Axis powers. The USA, made extensive use of psionic agents, as well as native American shamans, as well as Indiana Jones style archeologist's who track down potent artefacts. Great Britain, makes extensive use of sorcerers (mainly Druids and the newly founded Wiccan tradition), in addition to this both Myrdyn (Merlin) and King Arthur have also returned (fulfilling the legend that the once and future king will return in Britain's time of need), as well as the magic side of things there are scientists like H.G Wells developing all manner of mad science devices. The rest of Europe makes its own contributions in ways best befitting its own mythologies and myths (although admittedly most of the non Norse/Germanic mythology of Europe I don't know much about). The Nazi's, make use of all manner of resources, from blood samples taken from plundered ancient Norwegian barrows (in order to cultivate lycanthropy), attempting to create the Ubersoldat through mad science (genetic engineering,chemicals, and crude cybernetics), I also had the Nazis send a delegation to Romania to recruit Vlad Dracula (by telling him that communist Stalin will destroy the aristocracy and will come for him). That's without going into the Thule gesselschaft / SS connection, which gives the SS sorcerers, and I was thinking of making the Totemkopf extensively Necromancers and Undead. Japan, makes use of Oni from Japanese mythology as well as ancient mystical resources from its own sorcerer/priests, immortal Samurai. There is a very good novel called Tengu by Graham Masterton (I think) where the Japanese used commandoes possessed by Oni on the pacific islands that were created by Japanese sorcerers. I have already seen it mentioned but I also planned for a scenario that involved party (either Allied or Axis) having to deal with a Golem created by a Kabbalistic Rabbi in a Jewish ghetto, when you add some very powerful Jewish Kabbalistic magicians you can get some very interesting battles.
#56 Giradius Mar 20, 2008 10:54:20	This work is not completed, but it might be useful in creating a magic system for this type of game (as it is set in the real world and so Magic use must follow certain real world parallels). Magical traditions Sorcerer characters must choose a magical tradition each has advantages offering bonuses to certain kinds of magic or even bonus spells and disadvantages which could be penalties or special requirements for spell casting , some may also have bonus skills to offer as well. Magical languages are the languages used in most of this traditions magical workings, it is also the language most grimoires of this tradition are written in, and replaces Draconic if using D&D magic user classes. Magical Paraphernalia is the general form that magic items and relics of this tradition take, as well as the form of any specific focus items needed to cast spells. Runic Sorcery (Galdr) Runic sorcery has its origins in the magic of the ancient Teutons,Norse and Saxons. The magic revolves around the use of an ancient set of symbols called runes and these runes are inscribed on talismans or runic formulas and hand gestures are used in spell casting. In legend the runes themselves have their origins with the Norse god Odin (Wotan to the Saxons) who after giving his left eye for knowledge and hanging from the world tree wounded by a spear for many days as a sacrifice of himself to himself he let out a cry that shook the world and gained the mystical knowledge of the runes. The Thule society who provide the magical backing to the third Reich consists entirely of runic sorcerers. Probably the most famous runic magician was its founder the Norse God Odin the allfather, god king of Asgard. Magical languages Elder Futhark Magical paraphernalia Implements and tools favour Nordic design and imagery with ornate rune carved swords and staffs and horned helmets set with precious stones and long cloaks with embroidered knotwork,Talismans tend to be wooden or stone disks with runes engraved. Kabbalah In legend the Kabbalah originated with Moses who was granted knowledge of the Kabbalah after the receiving of the ten commandments from the burning bush of Jehovah on mount Sinai. Moses who was already versed in the magic of the Egyptians (being raised in the pharaohs household he was educated by priests with magic being part of his curriculum)expanded this Jewish lore with elements of the Egyptian sorcery he had learned. The kabbalah has been handed down from ancient times by an elite circle of rabbis and legend has it that king Solomon the wise was a kabbalist. The kabbalah uses a model of the universe called the tree of life and relies on complex groups of correspondence and divine names of power to work magic. Magical languages Hebrew Malachim. Magical paraphernalia tools tend toward ornate wands,goblets and circles decorated with sacred names written in Hebrew the trappings of the Rabbi are also used such as skullcaps and shawls,talismans tend to be long elaborate scrolls, metal disks with Hebrew names of power inscribed, or small boxes that contain long strips of sacred parchement. Druidism Druidism is the native religion of Britain and was practiced by the Celtic races thousands of years ago. During the roman invasion of Britain Julius Caesar noted that the druids acted as leaders,judges,priests,seers and wiseman to the Celtic peoples. the druidic tradition has a strong tie with the land and its stone circles where the forces of nature and trees in particular seem to be venerated. The most famous druid and perhaps one of the most powerful sorcerers in the world is Myraddin (or Merlin), advisor to king Arthur. Legend has it that he performed many fantastic feats such as transporting Stonehenge to salisbury plain from ireland, any works of shapeshifting. The druidic tradition is rich with ancient lore and complex ritual and these practices continue to this day although many of the practices reported by Caesar such as human sacrifice are no longer performed. Magical languages Ogham Magical paraphernalia Druids tend to favour natural looking staffs,ornate gold and silver daggers and sickles,various collections of dried plants and herbs and other woodland products including animal remains,Talismans tend to look like sprigs of dried plants small round stones with celtic symbols or wooden disks engraved with symbols. Fang Shu The Fang shu tradition is native to ancient china and like all other Chinese spirituality is in fact a mix of different beliefs and ideas. Fang shu is an ancient system of magick composed of Taoist, chinese alchemy , and even older shamanic beliefs and consists of the use of talismans,spirits,and magickal objects. Central to fang shu is the concept of the five elements that make up all things and their interaction with each other. The elements of fire,water,earth,wood,metal are manipulated by the magician (Fang shih)and by doing this the fang shih alters the nature of the world and performs magic. The greatest fang shih who ever lived was Lao Tzu the founder of Taoism. Magical languages Dragon script Heavenly script. Magical paraphernalia Fang shih favour ornate objects that symbolise the five elements,gold incense holders, small statues made of jade, delicate paper fans, intricate porcelain bowls of water,Talismans tend to be long strips of parchment with symbols on . Majutsu Majutsu is the Japanese magical system that is born from Shinto in the same way the kabbalah is born from Judaism. Although Majutsu contains elements of Fang shu it is Shinto and its pantheism that has contributed the most. Majutsu involves manipulating the spirits which all things in existence are believed to have, trees, animal, clouds, even rocks possess spirits called Kami and although some are powerful most are simple minded and can be easily manipulated by the Maho tsukai. The more sinister form of Majutsu involves traffic with demons called Oni who are summoned and forced to serve their masters in brutal bloodletting rituals, a sect of these sorcerers is believed to back the imperial Japanese war effort. Magical languages Cloud script Divine script. Magical paraphernalia Maho tsukai tend to use ornate katana's and paper fans,intricately painted Porcelain masks, Caved wooden staffs,Talismans tend to be long strips of paper or wood with elaborate calligraphy and symbols drawn on. Shamanism Shamanism is thought to be one of the oldest forms of religion in existence. they believe that the natural world is controlled by spirits with whom the shaman communicates through the spirit world for the good of the community, shamans make use of totem animal spirits to act as their messenger through the spirit world , as well as spirit medium the shaman is also healer, warrior, wiseman and traveller on the astral plane, for it is here the spirits dwell and grant their wisdom to those wisest enough to find them. Unique to shamanism is the principle of totemism in which the shaman seeks to unify his spirit with that of an animal by attempting to emulate it and through the joining of spirits gains the power and knowledge of the animal. Shamans are unique among sorcerers in that they do not learn from books and grimoires and if they want to learn new spells must undertake a vision quest to gain the knowledge. Magical languages None Magical paraphernalia Shamans favour crude weapons and tools such as flint head spears and tomahawks decorated with feathers,bones and other "Natural" treasures like dried herbs and resins. Animal hide drums are also used and elaborate wooden pipes are used for smoking sacred herbal mixtures,talismans tend to be fetishes made of stones,bones and feathers. Hermeticism Hermeticism is the recent product of what was once ancient Egyptian and Greek magic which being brought to Europe by the roman empire and by being passed down through the ages by the intellectual elite . It has been altered by the need to adopt Christian dogma in order to avoid the inquisition and the stake and has been added to by the great sorcerers of the middle ages and the renaissance .Hermeticism now consists of a mix containing Ancient graeco/Egyptian magic and Gnostic mysticism with Christianised Kabbalistic thought and renaissance Alchemy creating a complicated mix of rituals and practices. Central to hermeticism is so called emerald tablet written by Hermes Trismegistus (thrice greatest) and states "As above so below" in addition to this are the Aristotelean elements of fire, earth, air, water this concept plays a vital part in hermetic magic because like in the Fang shu tradition they combine to make up all things in existance. The majority of sorcerers from the middle ages were Hermetic and among their ranks were such figures as Theophrastus bombastus von Hedenheim (also known as Paracelcius) and Cornelius Aggripa. Magical languages Latin Alchemical script Enochian (celestial) Magical paraphernalia Hermetic sorcerers are quite varied in the choice of equipment and tend to use ornate robes and wands with silver goblets and daggers,They use Egyptian style garb or even Greek togas, some favour kabbalistic style tools, or even the trappings of alchemy suck as copper rods or alembics inscribed with symbols, Talismans tend to be metal disks or scrolls with ornate designs and circles. Black magic Black magic originated as a knee jerk reaction to the tyranny of early Christianity and gave its followers not only an outlet for their resentment and hatred of the church that oppressed them but also na opportunity to indulge themselves in pleasures and passions forbidden b the church of rome. Black magic combines a kind of decadent hedonism with an a belief that it is their right to do what ever they wish as they are the strong . It is a melding of many forms of pre Christian paganism including Celtic, roman and others but also makes use of reversed Christian symbolism and iconography such as the upside down cross and the black mass .To black magicians "the Christian god is the devil and the Christian devil is god" and it is about the followers of this tradition that the accounts of "Black masses" are written and among their practices are human and animal sacrifice,Consorting with demons and perverse sexual rites. one of the most famous Black magicians was the infamous Gilles de Rais Magical languages Latin Infernal. Magical paraphernalia Black magus tend to use inverted Christian and pseudo-pagan tools,Inverted crosses and also animal parts and skins particularly those of goats and reptiles ,animal masks and black robes with ornate daggers, and images of death and perversion. Occultism Occultism is not really a magical tradition but more an attitude to magical learning and where as followers of other traditions may be thought of as purists, the Occultist is more eclectic in his approach to magical techniques. Occultists will use any technique from any tradition adapting it to fit with their own personal values, belief systems and world views. they are the jack of all trades sorceror that will use runes for divination and then summon a kabbalistic demon or use a chinese talisman to assist them in performing a druidic ritual .Since the Occultists is a jack of all trades he is the master of none since they pick and choose what they want from a tradition and leaving the rest they never fully understand the hidden depths of knowledge contained within it and as such never truly master any of the traditions more powerful secret techniques however this does not prevent them becoming potent sorcerers in their own right as what they lose in depth they gain in versatility. One of the most powerful of recent sorcerers can be considered one of this type of magician ,the wickedest man in the world ,the infamous Alistair Crowley . Magical languages none but can learn any other. Magical paraphernalia None but they use the paraphernalia of the tradition whose technique they are using.
#57 tema69 Mar 26, 2008 16:54:19	Good stuff, Giradius. It's a great overview. Oh, and...
#58 natanax Mar 27, 2008 11:01:08	Does anyone have any tips for running good "Guns of Navarone" style commando adventures? I think a couple of these are going to be forthcoming in my current game.