In that case I can offer no advice, as they don't want anything to do with me, and that suits me fine.1
More seriously, don't you have a troop leader/counselor/some-adult-in-a-position-of-authority that you can talk to about problems with the other guys?
---
1I'm not kidding, the Boy Scouts have a 'gays need not apply' policy for both boy scouts and involved adults.
Do they still give out "Carnal Killing" badges? You know, the one with the triple severed heads, with an axe dripping blood in the background? I won that badge no less then three times. Ah, those were the days.
Yup, but they stopped giving out "**** and Pillage" badges. Apparently people weren't understanding the first part wasn't wanted for it.
Also, I've never understood the anti-homosexual ******** of the Scouts. Granted, I wasn't in the BSA, I live in a different country, so we had a more open (although not "legit" by the council) view of who we took in. The Leader himself was a closest homosexual, so yeah, we were pretty laid back. Man that was years and years ago... I barely remember those days.
There ya go, just out the guy that's bothering you. He may not be gay, but that shouldn't stop you. Just write the scoutleader an email saying he's been making advances and slip some questionable materials into his pack. The scoutmaster will likely kick him out if you can sneak a bottle of lube or some condoms into the guy's bag on one of the overnight camping trips. You can get condoms for free at the local health department, you just have to tell them you're sexually active.
For the record, I think prejudice sucks and needs to be stopped. Also, you probably shouldn't be lying about other people (eventhough I just suggested that you do); but I'm not your parents.
Umm ... getting some dude registered as sex offender for the rest of his life or at the very least forcing him to suffer that stigma unjustly is just a wee bit ... assholish, no? Not to mention it's also illegal ...
I believe I did explicity say he shouldn't do it. I do agree that it's stupid, illegal, possibly life wrecking, and more than a little bit childish. But just to be clear... for the love of god don't ever do that! To anyone!
Also, I did believe he knew I was joking. Since he mentioned taking care of the issue with hatchets or pocketknives, in the OP; I have no doubt he realizes that any kind of assault or false testimony will only get him into crippling legal trouble that would no doubt ruin his life.
There ya go, just out the guy that's bothering you. He may not be gay, but that shouldn't stop you. Just write the scoutleader an email saying he's been making advances and slip some questionable materials into his pack. The scoutmaster will likely kick him out if you can sneak a bottle of lube or some condoms into the guy's bag on one of the overnight camping trips. You can get condoms for free at the local health department, you just have to tell them you're sexually active.
For the record, I think prejudice sucks and needs to be stopped. Also, you probably shouldn't be lying about other people (eventhough I just suggested that you do); but I'm not your parents.
I cannot, in good conscience, endorse this plot.
I cannot, in good conscience, endorse this plot.
Nor can I. As I said. Don't ever do that to anyone!
On a more productive front, you could try speaking to someone about the problem you're having. I have never been a scout, so I don't know what the structure of the organization is; but I have to believe they have some form of conflict resolution that might serve your purpose. At the very least it could make the leaders aware of the problem so the two of you don't get placed in groups together and aren't forced to work closely together.
"I mean, this is Ohio, if you're not holding a beer you might as well be wearing a dress." - Christian Slater, Heathers
BSA anti-gay policy is baffeling to me. Sad, but baffeling. I remember back in high school or so ('92-'95) Levi's (jeans) was boycotting them and I think I wrote a quick paper on it. To summarize, "Wtf?! Do they make modern apparell or political rhetoric?"
BSA anti-gay policy is baffeling
BSA Equates "Gay" with "Rapes little boys".
Really, I think the association of "Gay" with "Rapes little boys" to just be a cover for some of the bigotry within the BSA. It's bad to just say "We hate gays" where it's a bet better, as far as society is concerned, to say their current defense to keep gays out.
They should associate "Gay" with "Has sex with other men" and "****" with "Rapes little boys".
The language (not your's) in the legislation isn't specific enough. Even some 19 yr old kid mixing it up w/ a 16 yr old technically constitutes statitory **** in many locales, despite them having been sweethearts for a while, consent or no. It's like the RAW vs. RAI arguement...common sense in short supply.
I'm all for getting scumbags off the streets and like the way Indiana handles it; **** Conviction -> time served or chemical castration ("punishment should fit the crime" used to mean something in this country of our's). Fair, actionable, swift. I like that.
But, to be fair, plenty of decent ppl are getting the shaft on technicalities while full blown predators get all manner of legal acrobatics and become repeat offenders.
Local example:
Show
ex)There's a huge row in Cincy here about a Volunteers of America center in OTR (major ghetto here) that is sort of a 1/2 way house for sex offenders. Wouldn't you know it, a repeat one there, walked out, had his way w/ a 13 yr old girl, killed her and tried to burn the evidence (her "midsection" to be blunt) per his MO. That's how they got him...the pattern formed (read, repeat offender) from prior crimes w/ **** & immolation on the menu. Wtf? Jail & the VoP couldn't rehab him w/ 10's of thousands of dollars at stake. I promise you I can get results for a fraction of that and 10 minutes...
That is their reason. It's not about lawsuits (goodness knows they've already had a fair number of those), it's not about potential for disaster, and it's not about PR. It is their moral choice.
"that homosexual conduct is inconsistent with the traditional values espoused in the Scout Oath and Law and that an avowed homosexual cannot serve as a role model for the values of the Oath and Law"
The reasoning being...?
"homosexual behaviour is inconsistent with bla bla bla...", but how so? I don't know the BSA, so I don't know the Oath and Law - do they say something like "I swear I will only engage in sexual intercourse with members of the opposite sex" or something? I mean, they state this whole inconsistency thing as pretty obvious, so I feel like I'm missing something...
That's basically it. If you aren't into man-on-woman love then as far as the BSA is concerned, you're morally messed up.
[indent]Scout Oath
On my honor I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country
and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong,
mentally awake, and morally straight.[/indent]
[indent] A Scout is: trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent.[/indent]
If that offers no elucidation into the matter, I really can't help. It's not my policy, and I don't pretend to understand it. I just know that it's not for fear of legal or PR repercussions that they prohibit homosexuals from being members.
Ah well, what the Hell do I know? I'm German, we don't even have boyscouts (we had something similar however, which also institutionalized bigotry, and turned out... not so well). There's just some things about America I don't understand, but I guess that's normal.
That's not the same: prohibiting atheists/agnostics when you're a religious organization seems appropriate enough.
The BSA is not a religious organization. They're more or less a conservative/republican organization.
Oh, and conservative=homophobic is BS as well. I'm conservative. So? Even leaving aside that "conservativism" is not some sort of global religion/ideology with a written codex somewhere telling you what a conservative is for and against, I frankly do not understand what homophobia has to do with it (although I do realize that bigots tend to amass at the right end of the political spectrum).
"Do my duty to God and my country" sounds pretty religious to me. I mean, every boyscout organization I know is religious in some way. I don't object to that.
And there are a lot of things in the use such as "In god we trust" all over the place but that doesn't mean we are a Christan only country. It just means we have douche bags in washington.
Oh, and conservative=homophobic is BS as well. I'm conservative. So? Even leaving aside that "conservativism" is not some sort of global religion/ideology with a written codex somewhere telling you what a conservative is for and against, I frankly do not understand what homophobia has to do with it (although I do realize that bigots tend to amass at the right end of the political spectrum).
Great don't care. I'm a republican and I don't agree with half the crap the Republican party tries to feed everyone. The conservative party/groups here in the US are very bigoted and very anti anything that is not like them. Or at least the conservative parts that exist within the central to southern parts of the US. I'm not saying that they are homophobic because they are conservative but rather there is, here in the US, a large homophobic group which happens to be a huge portion of the conservative base.
Since we're on the subject of religious conservatives: Did Christians obey every single word that came out of the mouth of Jerry Falwell? Did American conservatives obey every single word that came out of the mouth of Rush Limbaugh? Of course some of them did--every group has crazy people!--but just because the leaders believe one thing doesn't mean the rest of the group does.
Yes, the national BSA officials tend to be uptight, bigoted, and so on, but your average Scout or Scout leader don't usually listen. My old troop, as well as those of my 4 or 5 friends in different troops, allowed atheists (such as myself) and gays with no problems; the regional Scout leaders gave me an Eagle award despite the fact that they knew I'm an atheist, so obviously the regional folks don't blindly follow "official policy" either.
The BSA is fine as an institution (though it has plenty of flaws); just ignore the doctrine from up top. Gays and atheists aren't prohibited in the vast majority of Scout troops or events any more than Catholic schools will kick out Jews or atheists. (Which they won't, for clarification, as I went to several as a kid because the local public schools sucked.) So...yeah. Bottom line: hate the leaders, not the organization.
[/hijack][/rant]
Except that's not why.
There is no polarity here. Never said "this is why"...
Hence all the question marks,
, and general voice of SPECULATION. Were I an ex-scout, the credibility would change my position assuredly.Their stated reason is "that homosexual conduct is inconsistent with the traditional values espoused in the Scout Oath and Law
Yes (their oath & law anyway). But we're talking about an institution that scripted this a long time ago. You know, when it was still a "disease" or stimatized like communism. Things have changed radically, no?
...and that an avowed homosexual cannot serve as a role model for the values of the Oath and Law"
No. That is merely an opinion, albeit, one fostered out of ignorance/fear.
There have been cases when closet gays were exposed after the fact where their BSA track records were beyond reproach prior. Some might argue "overcompensation" to mask sexuality, others just say, "They were that damn good." but it doesn't matter. Sexual orientation should not be taken into consideration during your "performance evaluation" as it were.There shouldn't be an avowed sexual anything in a group full of children IMO. Totally wrong venue to circulate sexual policy in. Up to the parents, not the BSA. These kids should be learning how to gut a fish, suture a wound, or help old ladies cross the street, not wonder who's blowing who. Part of kids being there was that it was a safe, supportive organization where they wouldn't have to worry about those stressors as there's enough in the real world. Personal matter, not one for the collective is the short of it.
turalisj: They may not be classified as religious, however they were founded upon the ideals of a protestant sect.
Much like this nation (see Pilgrims) that made it happen for good or ill. Largely, it's my understanding & XP (bro, some friends, etc were in BSA) that if the BSA is an impetus to shore up moral fiber (be charitable, clean living, help the less fortunate, etc), teach survival skills & promote a better understanding of the natural world, etc.
An irony being if they're so "conservative" (they're a fraternal group populated by kids namely, not a political one formed of scary old white guys), their grasp of environmentalism (largely a liberal platform) doesn't synch well.
The entire BSA, much like Disney and 4kids entertainment is one big evil conspiracy that wants to take over the world and rewrite history in their own image.
Are you serious? Moving on...
Anyone see "Red Dawn"?
Show
There's a scene when the Cuban commander who's occupying the Colorado town they invaded if chatting w/ the deposed mayor about his son who is now an insurgent trafficing w/ the other "terrorists" (Sheen, Swayze, etc) and his misconception is hilarious.
Cmndr: "Your son is a part of an elite paramilitary organization...an Eagle Scout."
Mayor:
Cmndr: "Your son is a part of an elite paramilitary organization...an Eagle Scout."
Mayor: