Water is NOT inherently cold. Water has the second highest specific heat capacity of any known compound, which means that cold water takes a lot of heat to boil while hot water takes a lot of coldness to freeze. That’s why [unheated] pools are cold during the day but warm at night. Water is the earth’s moderating agent; it keeps the temperature relatively constant. That’s why desert temperatures are so extreme; because they lack water. Water has a few other peculiarities, but they’re not really relevant to this little rant.
TS
From what I can tell, arctic deserts are called tundras around here. Also, temperate deserts might not be so popular because a common staple of fantasy literature is extreme environments: freezing cold mountains caked year-round in snow as deep as a man is tall, jungles so thick and humid that few trails remain vine-free for very long, and, yes, arid deserts so scorching hot that you have to put your mouth over the waterskin's spout to keep the sunlight from instantly evaporating the necessity.
And, normally, water found in nature is cold from a human's frame of reference. It is commonly used to transfer heat, absorbing and radiating it. I would think water which has been in the environment for some time (say, a lake) will naturally have a temperature closer to that of the environment. Except on very hot days, this would be lower than that of a human's body temperature; so, when water comes into contact with higher-temperature skin, our senses tell us that it's "cold." And when it is hot outside, the evaporation of water is an endothermic reaction (pretty sure that's the term) which draws in heat from its surroundings. While the water is rising in temperature, whatever it drew heat from experienced a temperature drop. While water temperature may be better seen as the normal temperature level for the world from a scientist's point of view, the fact that it is often lower than our body temperature (and has the nasty ability of stealing our heat more quickly than air!) leads to cold-related problems for humans.
I've never heard of a person dying from hyperthermia in a natural body of water (aside from maybe a steam geyser), and while I'm sure it has occurred, the assuredly much larger number of deaths to hypothermia and frostbite from water-related accidents reinforces the idea that "water is cold."
A bit more on-topic, I hear and understand your complaints, Tequila_Sunrise.
However, I'm not sure that those themes are going to be changing anytime soon. If you would like, I'll make you some monsters that break the mold!
TBP
From what I can tell, arctic deserts are called tundras around here.
But a desert does not have to be in the arctic to be cold. I live in Nevada, which is pretty much one big desert. Trust me, I freeze my butt off in the winter. But it also gets really hot in the summer. ANd I think that's the OPs point, Deserts are not necessarily hot all the time and in every case.
But a desert does not have to be in the arctic to be cold. I live in Nevada, which is pretty much one big desert. Trust me, I freeze my butt off in the winter. But it also gets really hot in the summer. ANd I think that's the OPs point, Deserts are not necessarily hot all the time and in every case.
I'm not disagreeing with either of you. I'm simply informing you that, for many people who haven't been to a desert or heard much factual information about them, a desert is a place that's blazing hot all the time. And when enough people believe it, it becomes obvious for a company to create environments that mesh with their customers' beliefs but still take it a little bit to the extreme.
I know that deserts are often freezing at night. But I don't write the books, and I don't buy the majority of all copies WotC publishes. I'm just saying that it's not really worth stressing out over. Of course, I'm also sure you were just venting and don't actually think of these inconsistencies as extremely egregious wrongs.
I mostly felt like having a discussion and flexing my vocabulary muscles. :P
I am confident that when he rode through the desert on a horse with no name, it was a hot desert.
LOL.
From a different percpective I think fire breathing would be detrimental in a jungle envionrnment as you would then be burning the jungle. Now what I would like to see is a desert creature that creates its own cold water. Just imagine how useful that would be. Just my two copper pieces worth.
Also, how do you mix Fire with the tropics? Isn't it a bit too humid? If not, then wouldn't you be talking about burning down the jungle / savannah?
D&D worlds are often based on the silly notion that the world is composed of the elements Earth, Air, Fire, and Water. And FWIW, Air got the Cold in 4E, even if that doesn't make any sense either (see: windsoul genasi).
Also, how do you mix Fire with the tropics? Isn't it a bit too humid? If not, then wouldn't you be talking about burning down the jungle / savannah?
Made that same point. Though to break the mold I can see air getting force powers. Or powers that knock people back, and or prone.
I am confident that when he rode through the desert on a horse with no name, it was a hot desert.
That song never made sense to me.
You're on a horse.
You're riding through the desert.
You have nothing else to do with your time.
NAME THE FRICKIN' HORSE.
Tropical jungle powers would make you sweaty and irritable, dealing patience damage and adding "Effect: You adjust your underwear."
This thread has been won.
That song never made sense to me.
You're on a horse.
You're riding through the desert.
You have nothing else to do with your time.
NAME THE FRICKIN' HORSE.
actually, he might have staved off naming the horse for survival reasons. people tend to name things they like so they can relate to it and this personification of the animal might have stopped our hero from devouring his steed if it came to it.
I am confident that when he rode through the desert on a horse with no name, it was a hot desert.
In the desert, you can remember your name.
But not, come to think of it, your horse's name.
Strange.
However, I'm not sure that those themes are going to be changing anytime soon. If you would like, I'll make you some monsters that break the mold!
That's okay, I can make interesting monsters. I guess I just wish that marketers weren't always afraid to assume that their customers can learn things. It's not like a realistic description of a temperate desert in a D&D source book would require them to explain specific heat capacity, it would just be a change of pace from the same ol' same ol' deserts. Sometimes it is okay to play to the brainy nerd stereotype.
Also, how do you mix Fire with the tropics? Isn't it a bit too humid? If not, then wouldn't you be talking about burning down the jungle / savannah?
While you do have a point, neither do I remember the last time I heard about any dangerous fires ravaging a desert. Maybe Nyarlathotep can give us some experiences/figures about the frequency of desert fires.
Tropical jungle powers would make you sweaty and irritable, dealing patience damage and adding "Effect: You adjust your underwear."
That deserves a
. A sweaty, smelly .TS
I guess I just wish that marketers weren't always afraid to assume that their customers can learn things.
Let's think about the progression of events here...
If you use inaccurate deserts/water and nobody cares, then you are never presented with a reason to change anything.
If you use inaccurate deserts/water and somebody cares, then you will either tell them to shut up and play the damn game or learn more about deserts/water from the complainer.
I'm just not seeing a terribly good reason to use (read: waste) page space on clearing up such misconceptions. They will either be preserved or refuted based upon the degree to which people care about them.
Let's think about the progression of events here...
If you use inaccurate deserts/water and nobody cares, then you are never presented with a reason to change anything.
If you use inaccurate deserts/water and somebody cares, then you will either tell them to shut up and play the damn game or learn more about deserts/water from the complainer.
I'm just not seeing a terribly good reason to use (read: waste) page space on clearing up such misconceptions. They will either be preserved or refuted based upon the degree to which people care about them.
DnD is also a fantasy setting not reality. It does not need to reflect real world concepts.
most deserts that any one cares about are the hot ones, almost all fiction is composed of hot deserts. They are not exciting otherwise. Deserts of this kind are so awesome there are planets of them (Tatooine and Arrakis come to mind).
Let's be honest though. The only deserts anyone cares about are hot. No one adventures in Idaho.
Okay now just for the sheer amusment value I want to play or run a NWOD game set in idaho. Or run a dnd game where they get diminsionally shifted to idaho for a short bit.
and sponsored by Sunny_Delight
I want the purple stuff.
I want the purple stuff.
Can't taste worse than the Sunny D.
Anybody else find it odd that they couldn't identify what it was? Thinking back, I don't even remember the container it was in.
I have a new mission in life. To identify, and taste, the purple stuff.
Edit: ...What was this thread about?
Tropical jungle powers would make you sweaty and irritable, dealing patience damage and adding "Effect: You adjust your underwear."
So, apparently, the New England seacoast is a jungle for two months of the year? lol
Let's be honest though. The only deserts anyone cares about are hot. No one adventures in Idaho.
Is that because some say its a cultural desert?:D
I'm just not seeing a terribly good reason to use (read: waste) page space on clearing up such misconceptions. They will either be preserved or refuted based upon the degree to which people care about them.
Let me lay this out straight: I'm not talking about including a climate dissertation within a D&D supplement, I'm talking about changing things up every once in a while. Contrary to what some misguided individuals think, temperate and cold deserts are fun too. In fact, they have the potential to be even more fun because they challenge PCs in two ways [temperate deserts] rather than one or are even more hostile than hot deserts [cold deserts].
If the marketing department is afraid that some readers [read: you, apparently] might be afraid of learning something *gasp* from a supplement that includes non-Arabian style deserts, the writers could always present it as a "fantasy environment".
TS
If nothing else, I have now witnessed someone emotionally advocating the inclusion of the most boring type of real-life terrain in existence into a fantasy adventure game.
I know the non-hot desert and other biomes and... they're boring. I don't care that they exist, they don't serve as interesting adventuring or living areas, so why should I bother with thme in my game world?
These tropes exist for a reason -- because no one wants to hear stories aobut adventure in the high desert or salt flats or salt marsh.
I regard this in the same light I regard all the 'fun' facts that get jabbed down my throat on the Equipment boards. I'm sure that you who have devoted time to study this stuff, finds it very fascinating -- but no one else cares if it's really called an arming sword.
Stop berating us for not caring about something that's not pertinent to us! And stop haranguing us for not finding the boring thing you like fun. I know guys who find driving nails into their sinus cavities and hanging from hooks fun. This does not make it something that the majority of people do or should enjoy.
Well.
If nothing else, I have now witnessed someone emotionally advocating the inclusion of the most boring type of real-life terrain in existence into a fantasy adventure game.
Nearly the most boring. The title of most boring being wherever the hell My Antonia was set. "Red grass. Red grass. Did I mention the red grass? Because the grass there? It was red. Oops, it's been two whole pages and I haven't mentioned the red grass. Plantes Rojo. Red. The Grass? It was red."
Then again, not even Lewis and Clark wanted to talk about the high desert and it was their job.
I have a desert question: Why travel and exaust yourself in the sun of a 'hot' desert and sleep during the "cool/cold" night when all the desert animals are awake while you stay prone. Why not travel at night with the stars to guide you and bunker down in the heat with your shaded tent out of the sun like every other animal in the desert?
Thats actually what my party did once.
Okay now just for the sheer amusment value I want to play or run a NWOD game set in idaho. Or run a dnd game where they get diminsionally shifted to idaho for a short bit.
You could make it a Twilight Spin off!I have a desert question: Why travel and exaust yourself in the sun of a 'hot' desert and sleep during the "cool/cold" night when all the desert animals are awake while you stay prone. Why not travel at night with the stars to guide you and bunker down in the heat with your shaded tent out of the sun like every other animal in the desert?
Because it can get very cold at night in a desert. I did some work in the Sahara for a few months, and at night temperatures dropped below freezing. Going out meant wrapping up warm, or risking frostbite.
Technically according to Koppen's climate classification system, the two categories for Group B Dry (Arid and semi-Arid) Climates are Desert and Steppe. Any region where average annual precipitation is lower than potential evapotranspiration falls into the category. It doesn't necessarily mean they're hot, there are places in Alberta that qualify. It's actually a better guide for the sort of vegetation you'll get in an area than for more general climate information.
actually, he might have staved off naming the horse for survival reasons. people tend to name things they like so they can relate to it and this personification of the animal might have stopped our hero from devouring his steed if it came to it.
So, you name the horse "Burger". Problem solved.
Just throwing that out there.
Well.
If nothing else, I have now witnessed someone emotionally advocating the inclusion of the most boring type of real-life terrain in existence into a fantasy adventure game.
By 'boring' you must be implying 'in comparison to all of the multiverse'. Let's review:
Hot Desert Has:
Hostile environment that forces PCs to spend time/thought/resources just to survive.
Natural hazards that PCs can't overcome by violence.
Stunningly beautiful vistas.
Temperate Desert Has:
Hostile environment that forces PCs to spend time/thought/resources just to survive.
Natural hazards that PCs can't overcome by violence.
Stunningly beautiful vistas.
Cold Desert Has:
Hostile environment that forces PCs to spend time/thought/resources just to survive.
Natural hazards that PCs can't overcome by violence.
Stunningly beautiful vistas.
Yeah, you're right deserts are all so boring!
These tropes exist for a reason -- because no one wants to hear stories aobut adventure in the high desert or salt flats or salt marsh.
There's a term for the 'It'll never work, nobody will do it because it's never been done before' school of thought. It's called 'reactionary'. Reactionaries were the ones who said that women shouldn't be allowed to vote; reactionaries were the ones who said that nobody would want to act out the adventures of their war game miniatures. If you want to be a reactionary, I suggest that you stop reading online forums, 'cause you just can't help getting mixed up in all kinds of new fangled ideas there. Doggarn it, those younguns are ruinin' the internet!
TS
This thread is rapidly approaching Epic levels.
Doggarn it, those younguns are ruinin' the internet!
TS
I hear they liek mudkipz...
LOL.
From a different percpective I think fire breathing would be detrimental in a jungle envionrnment as you would then be burning the jungle. Now what I would like to see is a desert creature that creates its own cold water. Just imagine how useful that would be. Just my two copper pieces worth.
jungles do not burn well.
be glad, if they did it would make hunting nids with flamers far more irritating
They're not afraid of learning something, they don't care about learning something.
I know the non-hot desert and other biomes and... they're boring. I don't care that they exist, they don't serve as interesting adventuring or living areas, so why should I bother with thme in my game world?
These tropes exist for a reason -- because no one wants to hear stories aobut adventure in the high desert or salt flats or salt marsh.
I regard this in the same light I regard all the 'fun' facts that get jabbed down my throat on the Equipment boards. I'm sure that you who have devoted time to study this stuff, finds it very fascinating -- but no one else cares if it's really called an arming sword.
Stop berating us for not caring about something that's not pertinent to us! And stop haranguing us for not finding the boring thing you like fun. I know guys who find driving nails into their sinus cavities and hanging from hooks fun. This does not make it something that the majority of people do or should enjoy.
to be fair darksun was cold at night & had varies kinds of deserts "salt flat and such "
On the topic of "stereotypes" and deserts, I think when most people think of deserts they think of the Sahara and rolling sand dunes and whatnot. The desert doesn't always look like that.
So, you name the horse "Burger". Problem solved.
Doesn't work. My cat is named Burger and I would never eat him.
Then again, I'm a vegan. I'll ask someone who loves him as much as I do but also loves meat.
On the topic of "stereotypes" and deserts, I think when most people think of deserts they think of the Sahara and rolling sand dunes and whatnot. The desert doesn't always look like that.
This is why I think that books concentrate on that kind of desert. The settings generally revolve around the ocean of sand and all the familiarity and flavor that comes from those dunes. It's not about the average rainfall. It's about that particular Arab aesthetic. I wouldn't mind seeing a separate book about all kinds of desolate wastes. It could include all the lesser types of deserts and sulfur springs and tundras.
I can see it now. You would describe the scene immediately after a big battle. It would sound like your backyard in the summer when the grass doesn't grow (I live in Southern California.) except there would be dead bodies of raiders strewn about. You would then have to tell them that the sun is dipping below the horizon and they can now all see their own breath. Find shelter or parish in the night.
Tequila_Sunrise, could you please phrase your CoC-violating insults in a more amusing way? Magnificent bastards are amusing, mediocre bastards are not.
On the plus side, if you've never seen a sunset (or sunrise)over a desert, you're really missing out. It's a beautiful sight. I've never seen that many stars before at once. And coyotes...I got chased by coyotes...little buggers. I also got to see my first mirage, and that was pretty awesome. All in all, I liked the desert...just not spending 4 hours in the middle of the night five times a week in November sitting on a boulder doing gate-guard duty.
to be fair darksun was cold at night & had varies kinds of deserts "salt flat and such "
I have new respect for Darksun.
Yeah, and apparently I'm afraid of learning because I bothered to take the time to explain the way knowledge is currently disseminated and the advantage that the current method holds.
No, you and certain other posters are apparently afraid of learning because you read the brief factual information I presented and then called it a waste of page space. A lot of posters have replied to me with "deserts are hot deserts in most peoples' minds, so who cares if that's what writers use?", which I don't mind. Contrary to what you might think, I don't mind if you'd rather read about hot deserts than others and I am in fact aware of the common imagery associated with the word 'desert'. But I do mind when a group of posters post patently absurd and asinine comments to the effect of "your idea is stupid" or "nobody wants to learn" or "it'll never happen because it's never happened". I've got at least a half dozen posters who care enough about disseminating information to back up my information, even if they don't all care which deserts are written about. And I've got posters who would also like to see more non-Arabian deserts written about, so obviously I'm not alone.
Oh, and sorry for not being funny. I shall endeavor to make you laugh in the future as I demonstrate the faultiness of your comments, because obviously that's what's really important.
TS
I know the non-hot desert and other biomes and... they're boring. I don't care that they exist, they don't serve as interesting adventuring or living areas, so why should I bother with thme in my game world?
These tropes exist for a reason -- because no one wants to hear stories aobut adventure in the high desert or salt flats or salt marsh.
I am absolutely baffled. By what possible sense are non-hot deserts more boring that the myriad of other biomes that folks use when playing DnD? Do you only use stereotypical Desert/Mountain/Plains/Swamp/Forest with nothing in between?
I imagine the two scenes being set by a DM:
DM: Your party has to chase the Robber Baron into the Burning Sands of Agar, endless dunes of sand stretch out under the fiery sun. Your lips begin cracking from the dryness.
PC: Alright, that's exciting, lets go!
DM: Your party has to chase the Robber Baron into the Flats of Agar, endless miles of sage brush stretch out under the cold breeze. Your lips begin cracking from the dryness.
PC: Oh Man! How boring!
So, YES there is an actual D&D supplement (besides Darksun) that covers the myriad of desert areas. Which means, they HAVE acknowledged the various types of desert regions, and if I remember correctly when that book came out, it was well received because of the fluff stuff it had about deserts (same with Frostburn and arctic regions (yes I do know that there was countless debates about the mechanics, but that had nothing to do with the fluff)).
So, they DID do what you wanted TS
.jungles do not burn well.
be glad, if they did it would make hunting nids with flamers far more irritating
Lol my guard prefers a lemon russ demolisher variant with side sponsoned plasma cannons, mortars, and special weapons teams with grenade launchers and a demolition charge for hunting nids. As well as vetrean squads with lots of plasma guns for those pesky carnifexes. Grey knights and grey knight terminators also make for good nid killers.
When I went for Army training in the Mojave desert, it was in November. Not only did it get cold there at night, it freakin' cold. Being from Florida, I'm not so great at perferming in cold-weather areas. In Iraq, it got pretty chilly at night, but it didn't feel as cold as it did in the Mojave. Maybe I just finally acclimated and didn't notice it as much.
On the plus side, if you've never seen a sunset (or sunrise)over a desert, you're really missing out. It's a beautiful sight. I've never seen that many stars before at once. And coyotes...I got chased by coyotes...little buggers. I also got to see my first mirage, and that was pretty awesome. All in all, I liked the desert...just not spending 4 hours in the middle of the night five times a week in November sitting on a boulder doing gate-guard duty.
Never seen sunrise or set in the desert did see it at sea with the navy. That was freaking cool.
That said I think that a good dm can make most enviornments fun. Its all about presentation.
having wanderred through deserts in different parts of the world, i can tell you that cold or hot, they are pretty barren.
most of the time, my players just get mad at me when i impose environmental conditions. They take 5 minutes to come up with a solution and then say, "we now can assume we do that all the time."
however, deserts might be a little different. I have had 2 groups that, when being chased by a group of enemies (one was Vrock, the other was Slaad) they looked at the maps they had and decided to go for the desert.
The main trope of the desert i reinforce is sand. Sandy, sand. Gets everywhere.... in your gun, in your chopper, in your underwear, everywhere. You can't really have fun sex in the sand. It gets in your water, and upsets you. It gets in your food, it angers you. It gets in your eyes, and you just can't do anything...
The jungle is infinitely better... but not to sleep in. Temperate rainforests in spring summer and fall, with a smatterring of the high plains in summer (for those thunderstorms) and forget the extremes. If i wanted extremes, i suppose i would be an adventurer.....
Lol my guard prefers a lemon russ demolisher variant with side sponsoned plasma cannons, mortars, and special weapons teams with grenade launchers and a demolition charge for hunting nids. As well as vetrean squads with lots of plasma guns for those pesky carnifexes. Grey knights and grey knight terminators also make for good nid killers.
I have had remarkable luck killing tanks with lictors
I have had remarkable luck killing tanks with lictors
Ugh I hate lictors, almost as much as I hate spore throwers. I usually dont bring many tanks to battle usually 1 hell hound 1 leman russ of some kind and maybe a basalisk as well as a couple of transports. Its mostly infantry. Of course I love the doctrines. Droptroops, caprace armour, hardened vetreans, special weapons teams, and sharp shooters. Works really well. 1500 points against chaos I once had only one vechilce and wiped the floor with them.
Though their are several possible causes, deserts tend to form in areas of consistent high air pressure. This is because high pressure = falling air. Falling air gets warmer and can hold more moisture decreasing the likelihood of cloud formation and rain (rain and clouds occur when the air contains more water then it can hold).
Their are several bands of high pressure on earth, but their are major regions about 30 degrees latitude (north and south) and at the poles. The polar deserts are certainly cold, but they are also less habitable. People tend to live in the 30 degree desert bands which, existing at fairly low latitudes, tend to be pretty warm during the day (and of course cold at night). I imagine that because people are able to live in the 30 degree bands more easily they tell more stories about them and they are more ingrained in the popular imagination.
That said, I do get irritated with mono-elemental regions as well. Sometimes they simply don't make much sense. For example, take your typical "frozen north" icey region from a fantasy game. It is filled with ice themed creatures who create ice and are resistant to cold.
This is all well and good when they are facing a band of PCs who come storming their frozen keeps for gold, but I have always wondered what good all their ice powers have to do when dealing with each other.
Sure, being resistant to cold is great when you live in a cold area - this makes senses; but what exactly do get out of making ice (when not attacking PCs). It is not like ice is exactly a rare commodity in the frozen and your ice attacks won't do much good when fighting other native creatures because they are all resistant to cold anyways.
There is nothing wrong with having elemental themed creatures. The frost giant sitting in his frozen fortress and dreaming of drowning the world in snow is a great villain, as is the primal creature of fire dwelling in the heart of a volcano seeking only to consume living things in ash. However not every creature must conform to this mold.
D&D is not the only, nor the worst, offender here; actually as fantasy games go it can be pretty good at mixing up the elements. None-the-less here just a few examples of things I would like to see more of.
1.) A creature that lives in and is resistant to one element, but can use and attack with another. Imagine that you are an ice creature, with cold resistance, living in the ice land but can create an attack with fire. Not only are you creating a useful and rare commodity, but you have a major advantage in combat. You are resistant to many of the attacks of native creatures, but they are not resistant to you! Possibly tripping up the PCs is simply a fringe benefit.
2.) A creature that is actually vulnerable to the element it uses. Imagine the dreaded flame belching lizard; a giant Monitor that creates a flammable liquid and belches it at its enemies igniting it to form a ball of gas. Sure it attacks with fire, but if it ever gets hit with fire itself the chemicals still in its body ignite causing extra damage. Or imagine an undead creature spawned from the body of some poor soul who froze to death alone and forgotten. Sure it can menace others with cascades of ice, but any cold inflicted upon itself reminds it of its tortuous death and wounds it severely!
actually, he might have staved off naming the horse for survival reasons. people tend to name things they like so they can relate to it and this personification of the animal might have stopped our hero from devouring his steed if it came to it.
Actually, after three days, he let the horse run free, "'cause the desert had turned to sea"
In other news, it is possible to adventure in Idaho. I mugged around the lava bluffs east of Boise near Glenns Ferry many times searching for arrowheads and other artifacts. It's not a cyclops swatting sort of adventure, but I saw a bear up close. (an adventure to last a lifetime!) I saved a teeny catfish from a dry, toasty fate. (no such thing as letting nature take it's course with me- I'll save those animals, dammit!) I sank in really loose quicksand with only one leg, (the other foot was on solid ground, it was an unusual squat to say the least) and just a few feet on I caved in an underground wasp nest. (quite on accident! I would never do such on purpose) I also discovered for myself new flora of which I'd never seen the like, being a flat lander, and to end my day, I caught some mighty tasty salmon for dinner.
It's really easy to imagine setting an adventure up around there.
I saved a teeny catfish from a dry, toasty fate. (no such thing as letting nature take it's course with me- I'll save those animals, dammit!).......and to end my day, I caught some mighty tasty salmon for dinner.
Hmmmm....
and sponsored by Sunny_Delight
I want the purple stuff.
Hmmmm....
I never said I wouldn't eat it later. I simply wasn't going to let it die because of human abuse of the land.
I don't mind killing animals to eat. I am a human, built to eat both vegetables and meat. The wholesale slaughter of animals that occurs with industrial destruction of the environment , or in some cases farming, which was what happened to the little catfish, is a whole other deal, and something I correct when I can.
I would never kill a dog, because I don't eat them, but I'd save one if I could. I would save a cow from an abusive situation, and eat a hamburger for dinner.
Just because we are the keepers of the planet doesn't mean we need to abstain from it's riches. We just need to be more mindful about the way we treat everything, not just other people.
Yeah, yeah, wotta hippy! :P
Let's be honest though. The only deserts anyone cares about are hot. No one adventures in Idaho.
I adventure every time I walk out my door...
I never said I wouldn't eat it later. I simply wasn't going to let it die because of human abuse of the land.
I don't mind killing animals to eat. I am a human, built to eat both vegetables and meat. The wholesale slaughter of animals that occurs with industrial destruction of the environment , or in some cases farming, which was what happened to the little catfish, is a whole other deal, and something I correct when I can.
I would never kill a dog, because I don't eat them, but I'd save one if I could. I would save a cow from an abusive situation, and eat a hamburger for dinner.
Just because we are the keepers of the planet doesn't mean we need to abstain from it's riches. We just need to be more mindful about the way we treat everything, not just other people.
Yeah, yeah, wotta hippy! :P
You know, I kinda get where you're coming from. Once while groundhog hunting with my dad, we climbed to the top of a hill in the field we were glassing. We did so for obvious visual reasons and because there were trees at the top to get some shade from. It was a hot day. Anywhoo, we were sittin' there for a bit when I heard a noise coming from the old well we were next to. Thinking it may be a whistle-pig, I slowly peered into the well. Instead of a target looking at me, it was a calf that had somehow fallen the 15 or so feet down into the (lucky for him) basically dry well. We got the farmer and some rope and pulled the li'l bugger out. He tried to kill us for it, but we managed to avoid injury to both him and us. We thought he was ok, but the farmer told us there was no way to know if he'd survive since we couldn't know how long he'd been down there and - apparently - once injured or traumatized, cows sometimes stop eating or drinking. At that moment, the little guy trotted straight to a creek and began to drink. He made it. Thanks to us. :D
There's a difference between killing something for food and allowing something to suffer simply because it may be on the menu later. If it serves no purpose, why not stop the death? It it does, there's no need to feel any guilt.
I would never kill a dog, because I don't eat them, but I'd save one if I could.
I used to eat dog in Korea quite frequently. It was num-yummy. Of course, it was a specific breed of dog that was raised for just such a thing...they didn't grab Toto and Lassie and throw them on the BBQ. They were called Kagoge (not sure about the spelling...sounds like Kay-Go-Gee), and they were deee-lish with a blush or mild red wine.