Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 yellowdingo Aug 28, 2009 1:45:58	A History of the Knights Templars They are founded in the 12th century as a military order devoted to providing safe conduct to Pilgrims. All their wealth and income is sourced from donations from pilgrims. They were Mercenaries with religious charter. They were provided with immunity from excommunication and had the right to recruit excommunicated Knights (who would need the blessing of a Bishop). They have taken Vows of Poverty, Chastity, and Obedience. 1127- Expanded membership across Europe. 1128-A council was held to sanction the order. 1153-Templar Knights across Europe are granted land from assorted Kings. 1163-Laws requiring absolute obedience to the Grand Master are established. They are allowed to establish their own churches and are exempt from tithes and non Templar specific Papal dictates. Disputes between Parish Priests and the Templars are decided by the Pope in their favour. 1186/87-Templars begin provoking numerous fights and battles between Christians and Saracens disrupting the new alliance between Saladin and the Count of Tripoli. In one provoked fight involving seven thousand Saracen, numerous brother Hospitallers are slaughtered and their Grand Master is forced to flee. 1189-Templars purchase Cyprus for one hundred thousand gold bezants. 1190/91-Famine strikes. 1192-Templars aid Richard by directing him into Egypt as a back door into the Holy land. 1217-Construction of the Templar Fortress (Castle Pilgrim) at Acre begins. 1218-Castle Pilgrim is the stronghold from which the fifth Crusade is directed. 1228-Conflict between Templars and the Hospitaller - Teutonic Orders escalates into open violence. 1239-Templars were until this point dependent on income from Lands, estates, donations to their churches, payments from Pilgrims. After this point numerous temples are used as money markets and banks which rather than stockpile the gold, lend it out. Because of their vow of Poverty charging interest is illegal, but to get around this a rent is charged which exceeds the true rent by the amount of interest. Popes and kings begin depositing their great fortunes with these financial houses of the Templars. The income of the Templars can now be measured in hundreds of thousands from rent on towns, to rent on money. They are also involved in high volume money changing across the Trade routes Between Europe and Asia from which they make vast profit. 1244- Completion of Templar Fortress Safed near Gaza. Mongols Sweep across the Holy land destroying Saracen Cities and pushing the Frankish kings out. The Franks sell their Lands to the Templars and retreat to Europe. 1291-Templars pull back to Cyprus and this becomes their Central Citadel of Operations. It is here that a great library is built. 1303-The Templars are involved in a Quarrel with the Pope. Eventually the Pope's replacement restores and advances their right to acquire land. 1305-Numerous Kings and Princes, greedy of the Wealth of the Templars, begin a conspiracy to take it all. The Templars are charged with Heresy and Immoral acts (Banking and Associating with Non Christians). 1307-Templars are denounced to the Inquisition; hundreds of Knights are arrested and tortured. Kings were now openly conspiring to take "Church Assets" for themselves. By the end of the Year even the Pope (desiring to control Templar wealth) orders the arrest of All Templars. 1308-Templars across all of Europe are tortured and executed for their secrets and wealth. 1312- Membership peaks with fifteen thousand Templar Knights. At this time the slaughter of the Knights Templars by the Vatican Inquisition and European Kings had reached the rate of one Templar Knight every hour of every day of every year for the final two years of executions. 1314-The Templar Trials having lasted over six years end in the execution of their Grand Master. Paris and Rome had become slaughter houses of Chaos and Carnage. Execution after Execution turned these Cities from Beacons of Civilization into the heart of the two most evil civilizations on Earth all because each of their leaders (the King of France and the Pope) so desired to control the immense wealth of the Knights Templars. Wagons piled high with corpses were leaving these cities every day that the bodies might be burned in great funeral fires because mass graves could not be dug quickly enough. At its very peak The Templars had something in the magnitude of a million gold coins in resource and currency as an annual income at a time of Bankruptcy and economic collapse amongst European Kingdoms.
#2 lokiare Aug 28, 2009 2:18:59	A History of the Knights Templars They are founded in the 12th century as a military order devoted to providing safe conduct to Pilgrims. All their wealth and income is sourced from donations from pilgrims. They were Mercenaries with religious charter. They were provided with immunity from excommunication and had the right to recruit excommunicated Knights (who would need the blessing of a Bishop). They have taken Vows of Poverty, Chastity, and Obedience. 1127- Expanded membership across Europe. 1128-A council was held to sanction the order. 1153-Templar Knights across Europe are granted land from assorted Kings. 1163-Laws requiring absolute obedience to the Grand Master are established. They are allowed to establish their own churches and are exempt from tithes and non Templar specific Papal dictates. Disputes between Parish Priests and the Templars are decided by the Pope in their favour. 1186/87-Templars begin provoking numerous fights and battles between Christians and Saracens disrupting the new alliance between Saladin and the Count of Tripoli. In one provoked fight involving seven thousand Saracen, numerous brother Hospitallers are slaughtered and their Grand Master is forced to flee. 1189-Templars purchase Cyprus for one hundred thousand gold bezants. 1190/91-Famine strikes. 1192-Templars aid Richard by directing him into Egypt as a back door into the Holy land. 1217-Construction of the Templar Fortress (Castle Pilgrim) at Acre begins. 1218-Castle Pilgrim is the stronghold from which the fifth Crusade is directed. 1228-Conflict between Templars and the Hospitaller - Teutonic Orders escalates into open violence. 1239-Templars were until this point dependent on income from Lands, estates, donations to their churches, payments from Pilgrims. After this point numerous temples are used as money markets and banks which rather than stockpile the gold, lend it out. Because of their vow of Poverty charging interest is illegal, but to get around this a rent is charged which exceeds the true rent by the amount of interest. Popes and kings begin depositing their great fortunes with these financial houses of the Templars. The income of the Templars can now be measured in hundreds of thousands from rent on towns, to rent on money. They are also involved in high volume money changing across the Trade routes Between Europe and Asia from which they make vast profit. 1244- Completion of Templar Fortress Safed near Gaza. Mongols Sweep across the Holy land destroying Saracen Cities and pushing the Frankish kings out. The Franks sell their Lands to the Templars and retreat to Europe. 1291-Templars pull back to Cyprus and this becomes their Central Citadel of Operations. It is here that a great library is built. 1303-The Templars are involved in a Quarrel with the Pope. Eventually the Pope's replacement restores and advances their right to acquire land. 1305-Numerous Kings and Princes, greedy of the Wealth of the Templars, begin a conspiracy to take it all. The Templars are charged with Heresy and Immoral acts (Banking and Associating with Non Christians). 1307-Templars are denounced to the Inquisition; hundreds of Knights are arrested and tortured. Kings were now openly conspiring to take "Church Assets" for themselves. By the end of the Year even the Pope (desiring to control Templar wealth) orders the arrest of All Templars. 1308-Templars across all of Europe are tortured and executed for their secrets and wealth. 1312- Membership peaks with fifteen thousand Templar Knights. At this time the slaughter of the Knights Templars by the Vatican Inquisition and European Kings had reached the rate of one Templar Knight every hour of every day of every year for the final two years of executions. 1314-The Templar Trials having lasted over six years end in the execution of their Grand Master. Paris and Rome had become slaughter houses of Chaos and Carnage. Execution after Execution turned these Cities from Beacons of Civilization into the heart of the two most evil civilizations on Earth all because each of their leaders (the King of France and the Pope) so desired to control the immense wealth of the Knights Templars. Wagons piled high with corpses were leaving these cities every day that the bodies might be burned in great funeral fires because mass graves could not be dug quickly enough. At its very peak The Templars had something in the magnitude of a million gold coins in resource and currency as an annual income at a time of Bankruptcy and economic collapse amongst European Kingdoms.   Wow sounds like what's about to happen to the U.S.
#3 cherubaddon Aug 28, 2009 3:18:42	Nice research. Though you forgot about the templars' curse, but then, that's highly speculative, isn't it?
#4 mock26 Aug 28, 2009 4:08:30	Wow sounds like what's about to happen to the U.S. ::::roll eyes::::
#5 lokiare Aug 29, 2009 21:43:27	Wow sounds like what's about to happen to the U.S. ::::roll eyes:::: Roll your eyes all you want (or as we realists say it 'bury your head in the sand'). Without getting into politics (because its apparently against the CoC/ToU) The U.S. has been on a downward spiral for years now. It is just recently that it has been bad enough to be noticed by the government and the news media. Their current fixes are not working, and the problems are not being addressed, only the symptoms. Which is precisely what happened to Rome, and the government/religious ruling class of that time.
#6 cherubaddon Aug 30, 2009 6:18:31	Wow sounds like what's about to happen to the U.S. ::::roll eyes:::: Roll your eyes all you want (or as we realists say it 'bury your head in the sand'). Without getting into politics (because its apparently against the CoC/ToU) The U.S. has been on a downward spiral for years now. It is just recently that it has been bad enough to be noticed by the government and the news media. Their current fixes are not working, and the problems are not being addressed, only the symptoms. Which is precisely what happened to Rome, and the government/religious ruling class of that time. For a realist, you're quite keen on forgetting that, by their nature, all great empires are subject to entropy and decay. Here's a well-kept secret: The US hasn't been on that "downward spiral" for years, it has always been there. The US' "downward spiral" isn't somehow "getting worse", it's just there, just like the "downward spiral" of Europe and most other established powers. It's sort of like inflation: it's always there, but as long as it's somehow controlled, it doesn't mean the end of the world. All it means is that great empires need to dust off every once in a while, make some major overhaul, reinvent themselves in order to stay fresh. If the US can do that, there's nothing to be concerned about. So I think what Mock was rolling his eyes about was the insufferable doom-mongering he read in your comment (and, to be truthful, I also took it for sarcasm at first). And even if you're serious, and assuming for a moment what you say to be true, I still don't see the parallel to the Knights Templar.
#7 idhriniel Aug 30, 2009 6:39:52	didnt the Knights Templar eventually become the Freemasons? and for some reason, Ubisoft has an obsession with involving the Templars in Assassin's Creed (both I and II [which comes out November 17, 2009]).
#8 cherubaddon Aug 30, 2009 6:43:28	didnt the Knights Templar eventually become the Freemasons? Umm... right. No. The Freemasons existed before the Templars, and had nothing to do with knights at all. The Templars just sort of disappeared, and the fact that they both appear in Deus Ex doesn't mean they got anything to do with each other. and for some reason, Ubisoft has an obsession with involving the Templars in Assassin's Creed (both I and II [which comes out November 17, 2009]). To keep my temper faced with this insult of a game, I'll keep it short: the Templars are, along with the Illuminati, the most overused conspiracy theory ever. And for a game set in the Holy Land, involving them makes sense. Involving their modern descendants in an evil conspiracy is merely a defenestration of common sense.
#9 squidyak Aug 30, 2009 6:59:31	Umm... right. No. The Freemasons existed before the Templars, and had nothing to do with knights at all. The Templars just sort of disappeared, and the fact that they both appear in Deus Ex doesn't mean they got anything to do with each other.   No, the Freemasons came into existence around the 16th century, well after the end of the Templars.  And the Templars didn't just sort of disappear.  They were destroyed by King Phillip IV of France.  On Friday, October 13, 1307 the entire power base was arrested and tortured into confessing to all kinds of heresies.  These heresies included blasphemy, idol worship, witchcraft, homosexuality, and a multitude of other sins.  Most of the influential Templars were burned at the stake and the knighthood was dissolved by Pope Clement V.  Templar holdings were divided between Philip, the Hospitalars, and nobles of other countries.  This is believed to have been the entire purpose of the incident.  This is the source of all the superstition surrounding Friday the 13th.
#10 idhriniel Aug 30, 2009 7:27:04	And then, you have...the curse. O.O Some people actually believe in that curse, you know. I mean, considering it would be a strange coincidence for the pope, Philip of France, and a plague to occur shortly after the burning of the Templars? Hmmm...
#11 cherubaddon Aug 30, 2009 10:34:14	Umm... right. No. The Freemasons existed before the Templars, and had nothing to do with knights at all. The Templars just sort of disappeared, and the fact that they both appear in Deus Ex doesn't mean they got anything to do with each other.   No, the Freemasons came into existence around the 16th century, well after the end of the Templars.  And the Templars didn't just sort of disappear.  They were destroyed by King Phillip IV of France.  On Friday, October 13, 1307 the entire power base was arrested and tortured into confessing to all kinds of heresies.  These heresies included blasphemy, idol worship, witchcraft, homosexuality, and a multitude of other sins.  Most of the influential Templars were burned at the stake and the knighthood was dissolved by Pope Clement V.  Templar holdings were divided between Philip, the Hospitalars, and nobles of other countries.  This is believed to have been the entire purpose of the incident.  This is the source of all the superstition surrounding Friday the 13th. Let me rephrase: the origins of the Freemasons, the masonic guilds, exist since something like the 12th century. Freemasonry itself, as you rightly point out, only came up much later. Sorry for the inaccuracy. As for the Templars, yeah thank you, I too read the OP. The "sort of disappear" was directed at the whole theory of a bunch of surviving Templars surviving to this day (Da Vinci Code, Deus Ex 2, Assassin's Creed). What I meant was that the organization itself stopped existing with the great purge, period. Everything else is conspiracy theory.
#12 lokiare Aug 30, 2009 20:09:29	Wow sounds like what's about to happen to the U.S. ::::roll eyes:::: Roll your eyes all you want (or as we realists say it 'bury your head in the sand'). Without getting into politics (because its apparently against the CoC/ToU) The U.S. has been on a downward spiral for years now. It is just recently that it has been bad enough to be noticed by the government and the news media. Their current fixes are not working, and the problems are not being addressed, only the symptoms. Which is precisely what happened to Rome, and the government/religious ruling class of that time. For a realist, you're quite keen on forgetting that, by their nature, all great empires are subject to entropy and decay. Here's a well-kept secret: The US hasn't been on that "downward spiral" for years, it has always been there. The US' "downward spiral" isn't somehow "getting worse", it's just there, just like the "downward spiral" of Europe and most other established powers. It's sort of like inflation: it's always there, but as long as it's somehow controlled, it doesn't mean the end of the world. All it means is that great empires need to dust off every once in a while, make some major overhaul, reinvent themselves in order to stay fresh. If the US can do that, there's nothing to be concerned about. So I think what Mock was rolling his eyes about was the insufferable doom-mongering he read in your comment (and, to be truthful, I also took it for sarcasm at first). And even if you're serious, and assuming for a moment what you say to be true, I still don't see the parallel to the Knights Templar. Actually most empires of any kind have a growth period as they absorb more external resources (as in the rise of Rome, or the westward expansion of the United States). Once that stage is done they usually do turn into a downward spiral because resources are then finite and the opportunity costs and trade offs don't come from outside the empire, they must come from inside. So at the current point we (the U.S. govt) are debating things like the trade offs of privatized health-care versus governmentized health care and many other issues. The spiral comes from the loss of synergy (the sum of two things is greater than their respective parts added together). Without synergy you end up with entropy which means that it takes more resources to do something than you get out of it. Kind of like the oil industry. We've probably been on the current downward spiral since 9/11 when we 're-invented' ourselves (granted it was prompted by an external event, but we did redesign how we viewed things). My parallel to the knights Templar is that they had grown to be the equivalent of a tiny empire in structure and the way they functioned. So there was room for corruption and political maneuvering and thus a 'downward spiral'. We may never know whether the disbanding of the Templars was purely for gain, purely because they were corrupted, or some mix of the two, but the potential was there. The kingdoms that allowed the Templars to operate within their borders were on the point of financial ruin and decided that war with the Templars was their way out. Thus they were spiraling into financial ruin, and decided to take an external resource (the Templar's money) and 're-invent themselves'.
#13 cherubaddon Aug 31, 2009 5:38:28	I suppose that makes sense.
#14 squidyak Aug 31, 2009 6:44:44	Let me rephrase: the origins of the Freemasons, the masonic guilds, exist since something like the 12th century. Freemasonry itself, as you rightly point out, only came up much later. Sorry for the inaccuracy. As for the Templars, yeah thank you, I too read the OP. The "sort of disappear" was directed at the whole theory of a bunch of surviving Templars surviving to this day (Da Vinci Code, Deus Ex 2, Assassin's Creed). What I meant was that the organization itself stopped existing with the great purge, period. Everything else is conspiracy theory. Ah, ok.  To be fair, the Masons themselves haven't gone out of their way to dispel the myth.   Some Masons even aspouse the belief in the connection themselves.  The official line is that they've been around since the building of Solomon's Temple.  Regardless, it has to be acknowledged that many of the ceremonies observed by both organizations share similaritie.
#15 cherubaddon Aug 31, 2009 6:59:46	Regardless, it has to be acknowledged that many of the ceremonies observed by both organizations share similaritie. For instance?
#16 wancow Aug 31, 2009 23:29:35	Umm... right. No. The Freemasons existed before the Templars, and had nothing to do with knights at all. The Templars just sort of disappeared, and the fact that they both appear in Deus Ex doesn't mean they got anything to do with each other The earliest known mention of the Freemasons was in the Regius Poem, which was printed in 1390, eight decades after the Templars were disbanded. To keep my temper faced with this insult of a game, I'll keep it short: the Templars are, along with the Illuminati, the most overused conspiracy theory ever. And for a game set in the Holy Land, involving them makes sense. Involving their modern descendants in an evil conspiracy is merely a defenestration of common sense. I'll agree :D The Templars were NOT decimated all over Europe.  They were in France, because the King of France needed money.  The Principalities of the Holy Roman Empire were not unified enough to carry out any eradication efforts, and the Kingdoms of Iberia were still trying to kick out the last of the Moors from Grenada, and needed all the help they could get. The charlatan (aka Dan Brown) didn't do anyone any favours when he wrote "The Davinci Code" which perpetuated the myth that it was the Pope, and not the King of France, that went after the Templars.