An Unpleasant Bit of International News - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

An Unpleasant Bit of International News

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
orenthes
May 04, 2009 0:02:35 I love the PRC, but this article makes blood shoot out of my eyes.

http://www.sudantribune.com/spip.php?article30707

Tiny bit of clarification.

China is a permanent member of the UN Security Council, along with us, the UK, France, and the Russian Federation. In other words, the victors of WW2, given that the UN was formed right after. A permanent member has veto power, any resolution that they don't like will be vetoed. Thus, they are vetoing ANYTHING that has to do with Darfur and the genocidal government of Khartoum, who are funding the Janjaweed militias who are doing this.

Though those crazy Russians have the most vetoes because they figured any anti-Soviet resolutions back in the day would cramp their style.
#2
KillerGM
May 04, 2009 0:14:28 http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1110774
#3
orenthes
May 04, 2009 0:17:40 Technically international politics, and just news.
#4
crofter
May 04, 2009 0:30:05 Well, international politics is still politics, so it counts.
#5
zombie_babies
May 04, 2009 9:38:52
Technically international politics, and just news.

Bolded word is banned topic.

Yeah, it's already been said a few times, but it seems the message was somehow lost. ;) We used to be able to talk about this stuff here but some trolls decided to flame every chance they got and eventually resorted to posting pics of aborted fetuses to get their shots in. So, politics/religion got bannederated.
#6
RUMPLESTIX
May 04, 2009 23:21:52 Well, if you want the article discussed:

The billions of dollars that China pumps into the Sudanese economy do not in any way trickle down, but help exacerbate the problems. Therefore, China must first acknowledge its irresponsibility in Sudan and must begin to exert positive influence. There is nothing such as “win-win” in dealing with a regime in Khartoum, which its actions are responsible for all the instabilities in the country. China must act within its powers in concert with the general population of Sudan and the rest of the international community to achieve what the Sudanese people wants most, which are peace, stability and prosperity. There is a lot of outcry for China to do more in the pacification effort in Sudan and China must heed to the warnings

First, the fact that China is so involved in Sudan has no bearing on what it 'must' do: acknowledge responsibility, exert positive influence, must act within its powers in concert with the general population of Sudan and the rest of the international community, and China must heed to the warnings.

China's first responsibility is to act in the interest of the people of China regardless of what the world thinks.

It would be nice if they felt they had to do those things but there is no reason they must.
#7
RUMPLESTIX
May 04, 2009 23:53:56 @ Orenthes

About the OP.
What surprises me is that it seems (since you mentioned liking the PRC...) you did not already realize that China has been conducting foreign policy this way for a long time.
#8
orenthes
May 04, 2009 23:54:37
Well, if you want the article discussed:

First, the fact that China is so involved in Sudan has no bearing on what it 'must' do: acknowledge responsibility, exert positive influence, must act within its powers in concert with the general population of Sudan and the rest of the international community, and China must heed to the warnings.

China's first responsibility is to act in the interest of the people of China regardless of what the world thinks.

It would be nice if they felt they had to do those things but there is no reason they must.

Thanks for the on-topic reply Rumple, I'm going to start what it hopefully a giant pyramid of quotes.

You're right that China has to look out for China, just like America has to do. That said, supplying arms to the Sudanese government and the Janjaweed militias is an atrocity. China's work to preserve its prosperity does not have to, nor should it come at the cost of so many human lives. Funding a genocidal regime is nothing new to America (can you say Iran-Iraq War?) but this world has to work as a collective to punish regimes such as the one in Khartoum.
#9
cherubaddon
May 05, 2009 2:10:51 I would agree that in their function as Republic of China, said country can behave whatever way it wishes - sure, it's supposed to act in its peoples' best interests, but there's nothing forcing them to.

That said, as a member of the UN' Security Council (and others, I might add), it carries a far superior responsibility. Think of it this way: there's nothing inherently wrong with a teen smoking; but if said teen is also member of the Junior Anti-Tobacco League... well, he either needs to stop, or relinquish the additional (voluntary) responsibility.

Finally, while a country may behave any way it wants, other countries might still have interests - and for the "Western" countries, most of which base their legitimacy on something along the lines of "all men are equal", that means they might be supposed to intervene (whichever way) if you behave contrarily. Again, there's nothing forcing said countries to do so, but for moral integrity's sake at least, they should.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 orenthes May 04, 2009 0:02:35	I love the PRC, but this article makes blood shoot out of my eyes. http://www.sudantribune.com/spip.php?article30707 Tiny bit of clarification. China is a permanent member of the UN Security Council, along with us, the UK, France, and the Russian Federation. In other words, the victors of WW2, given that the UN was formed right after. A permanent member has veto power, any resolution that they don't like will be vetoed. Thus, they are vetoing ANYTHING that has to do with Darfur and the genocidal government of Khartoum, who are funding the Janjaweed militias who are doing this. Though those crazy Russians have the most vetoes because they figured any anti-Soviet resolutions back in the day would cramp their style.
#2 KillerGM May 04, 2009 0:14:28	http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1110774
#3 orenthes May 04, 2009 0:17:40	Technically international politics, and just news.
#4 crofter May 04, 2009 0:30:05	Well, international politics is still politics, so it counts.
#5 zombie_babies May 04, 2009 9:38:52	Technically international politics, and just news. Bolded word is banned topic. Yeah, it's already been said a few times, but it seems the message was somehow lost. ;) We used to be able to talk about this stuff here but some trolls decided to flame every chance they got and eventually resorted to posting pics of aborted fetuses to get their shots in. So, politics/religion got bannederated.
#6 RUMPLESTIX May 04, 2009 23:21:52	Well, if you want the article discussed: The billions of dollars that China pumps into the Sudanese economy do not in any way trickle down, but help exacerbate the problems. Therefore, China must first acknowledge its irresponsibility in Sudan and must begin to exert positive influence. There is nothing such as “win-win” in dealing with a regime in Khartoum, which its actions are responsible for all the instabilities in the country. China must act within its powers in concert with the general population of Sudan and the rest of the international community to achieve what the Sudanese people wants most, which are peace, stability and prosperity. There is a lot of outcry for China to do more in the pacification effort in Sudan and China must heed to the warnings First, the fact that China is so involved in Sudan has no bearing on what it 'must' do: acknowledge responsibility, exert positive influence, must act within its powers in concert with the general population of Sudan and the rest of the international community, and China must heed to the warnings. China's first responsibility is to act in the interest of the people of China regardless of what the world thinks. It would be nice if they felt they had to do those things but there is no reason they must.
#7 RUMPLESTIX May 04, 2009 23:53:56	@ Orenthes About the OP. What surprises me is that it seems (since you mentioned liking the PRC...) you did not already realize that China has been conducting foreign policy this way for a long time.
#8 orenthes May 04, 2009 23:54:37	Well, if you want the article discussed: First, the fact that China is so involved in Sudan has no bearing on what it 'must' do: acknowledge responsibility, exert positive influence, must act within its powers in concert with the general population of Sudan and the rest of the international community, and China must heed to the warnings. China's first responsibility is to act in the interest of the people of China regardless of what the world thinks. It would be nice if they felt they had to do those things but there is no reason they must. Thanks for the on-topic reply Rumple, I'm going to start what it hopefully a giant pyramid of quotes. You're right that China has to look out for China, just like America has to do. That said, supplying arms to the Sudanese government and the Janjaweed militias is an atrocity. China's work to preserve its prosperity does not have to, nor should it come at the cost of so many human lives. Funding a genocidal regime is nothing new to America (can you say Iran-Iraq War?) but this world has to work as a collective to punish regimes such as the one in Khartoum.
#9 cherubaddon May 05, 2009 2:10:51	I would agree that in their function as Republic of China, said country can behave whatever way it wishes - sure, it's supposed to act in its peoples' best interests, but there's nothing forcing them to. That said, as a member of the UN' Security Council (and others, I might add), it carries a far superior responsibility. Think of it this way: there's nothing inherently wrong with a teen smoking; but if said teen is also member of the Junior Anti-Tobacco League... well, he either needs to stop, or relinquish the additional (voluntary) responsibility. Finally, while a country may behave any way it wants, other countries might still have interests - and for the "Western" countries, most of which base their legitimacy on something along the lines of "all men are equal", that means they might be supposed to intervene (whichever way) if you behave contrarily. Again, there's nothing forcing said countries to do so, but for moral integrity's sake at least, they should.