Are Politics still against the CoC/ToS in here?

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

lokiare

Jan 26, 2011 0:08:40
Are politics against the CoC/ToS in the off topic tavern? If not I want to get some peoples ideas and thought about certain thing...
#2

EscherEnigma

Jan 26, 2011 0:52:47
Officially?  Well, there is that "cleaning up the tavern" post still sticked, so you can infer from that what you will...

Unofficially?  Well, people are people, and for many people, the personal is political, so it happens anyway.  Sometimes you'll get a good and interesting discussion, sometimes you won't.  But you'll never know until you try.

Not that I condone that sort of thing. 
#3

lokiare

Jan 26, 2011 1:04:35
Ok, well here goes then.

Does anyone get a little ticked when the news reports the economy 'recovering' when the December sales show a slight boost? Of course they are gonna go up, its a freakin' holiday about buying crap for other people.

How many of you think the U.S. government is run more by corporations and less by voters? gov't officials get trillions of dollars from lobbyists each year to make laws that favor corporations over citizens. Citizen advocate candidates that don't accept lobby money are basically swept under the rug as Ralph Nader was done (he wasn't even allowed to participate in the debates when he ran). To get anything done with our current gov't you have to pay the officials to vote your way (this was proven with Obama and all of the back-room dealing he had to do to get his health care reform passed).

That should be good for a start...
#4

jesse.two.coins

Jan 26, 2011 6:22:18
Ok, well here goes then.

Does anyone get a little ticked when the news reports the economy 'recovering' when the December sales show a slight boost? Of course they are gonna go up, its a freakin' holiday about buying crap for other people.

How many of you think the U.S. government is run more by corporations and less by voters? gov't officials get trillions of dollars from lobbyists each year to make laws that favor corporations over citizens. Citizen advocate candidates that don't accept lobby money are basically swept under the rug as Ralph Nader was done (he wasn't even allowed to participate in the debates when he ran). To get anything done with our current gov't you have to pay the officials to vote your way (this was proven with Obama and all of the back-room dealing he had to do to get his health care reform passed).

That should be good for a start...



I agree.
#5

Robin_Hoodlum

Jan 26, 2011 18:30:56
Ok, well here goes then.

Does anyone get a little ticked when the news reports the economy 'recovering' when the December sales show a slight boost? Of course they are gonna go up, its a freakin' holiday about buying crap for other people.

How many of you think the U.S. government is run more by corporations and less by voters? gov't officials get trillions of dollars from lobbyists each year to make laws that favor corporations over citizens. Citizen advocate candidates that don't accept lobby money are basically swept under the rug as Ralph Nader was done (he wasn't even allowed to participate in the debates when he ran). To get anything done with our current gov't you have to pay the officials to vote your way (this was proven with Obama and all of the back-room dealing he had to do to get his health care reform passed).

That should be good for a start...


Do you expect Barry and his socialist admin to admit their policies and ideas are failures?
Do you expect to hear any logic or facts from the left?
Do you expect the amateurs in the White House to know what they are doing?
Do you get a tingling feeling running up your leg from Barry?

Only another year until we get adults back into the White House...

#6

EscherEnigma

Jan 26, 2011 19:15:14
*Yawn*

You know RH, I'm reminded of Matthew 7:3-5.
#7

Robin_Hoodlum

Jan 26, 2011 19:22:02
*Yawn*

You know RH, I'm reminded of Matthew 7:3-5.


I don't think so.
I see where you are getting the "hypocritical" thing from, but I can argue that it isn't.
#8

EscherEnigma

Jan 26, 2011 19:38:56
Hah.  Come back and try that again when the Republicans in congress aren't flat-out ignoring the Congressional Budget Office, m'kay?
#9

pluisjen

Jan 27, 2011 2:17:21

Do you expect Barry Palin and his her republican admin to admit their policies and ideas are failures?
Do you expect to hear any logic or facts from the left right?
Do you expect the amateurs in the running for the White House to know what they are doing?
Do you get a tingling feeling running up your leg from Barry Palin?
 



Yay, we're having a meaningful discussion! I'm learning so much from this, it's very educational and insightful. 
#10

jesse.two.coins

Jan 27, 2011 6:53:47

Do you expect Barry Palin and his her republican admin to admit their policies and ideas are failures?
Do you expect to hear any logic or facts from the left right?
Do you expect the amateurs in the running for the White House to know what they are doing?
Do you get a tingling feeling running up your leg from Barry Palin?
 



Yay, we're having a meaningful discussion! I'm learning so much from this, it's very educational and insightful. 



palin is a joke.
#11

Robin_Hoodlum

Jan 27, 2011 6:56:12

Do you expect Barry Palin and his her republican admin to admit their policies and ideas are failures?
Do you expect to hear any logic or facts from the left right?
Do you expect the amateurs in the running for the White House to know what they are doing?
Do you get a tingling feeling running up your leg from Barry Palin?
 



Yay, we're having a meaningful discussion! I'm learning so much from this, it's very educational and insightful. 



palin is a joke.


As are progressives.
#12

jesse.two.coins

Jan 27, 2011 7:01:26

Do you expect Barry Palin and his her republican admin to admit their policies and ideas are failures?
Do you expect to hear any logic or facts from the left right?
Do you expect the amateurs in the running for the White House to know what they are doing?
Do you get a tingling feeling running up your leg from Barry Palin?
 



Yay, we're having a meaningful discussion! I'm learning so much from this, it's very educational and insightful. 



palin is a joke.


As are progressives.



agreed.
#13

pluisjen

Jan 27, 2011 7:02:16
Life in general is a big joke, so you might as well laugh about it.
#14

Robin_Hoodlum

Jan 27, 2011 7:09:41
Life in general is a big joke, so you might as well laugh about it.


To you maybe.
But I take my life seriously.

#15

pluisjen

Jan 27, 2011 7:12:44
I know, that's what's so funny.
#16

zombie_babies

Jan 27, 2011 8:48:47
How's that go?  Something like 'you can't take life seriously cuz you'll never make it out alive' or something?  Oh well.  Me, well, I just try to remind myself as often as possible of my status as a totally insignificant speck of dust.  I'd say more of us should do that cuz it puts things in the perspective I believe they should be seen, but then we'd all be dead.  Wait.  Yeah, I say more of us should do this. 
#17

Crimson_Concerto

Jan 27, 2011 9:04:03
R_H, you always seem really bitter about progressivism, bringing it up at seemingly arbitrary moments for purposes that aren't too clear. Tell me, what do you think that progressivism is? I don't plan on arguing with you about it or anything. I'm just curious whether you actually have any idea what you're talking about at all or whether this is one of those things like Evolution or Feminism or Socialism that a lot of people say that they intensely dislike and disagree with even though 99% of them don't actually have any idea what they really are or how they work.
#18

pluisjen

Jan 27, 2011 9:05:04
Myeah I just think it's really funny to see all these people who think their life is so serious and important. Like you said; we're all just specks of dust, and life's way too short to spend on serious matters, I'd rather just have fun Tongue out

People being serious often ruin other people's fun for no good reasons. (Obviously they also sometimes ruin other people's fun for good reasons, but overall less serious is often better)

It also depends on how you use the term "serious", of course. I generally consider serious to be an  opposite of "fun", even though the true opposite of fun would be closer to "boring" probably.
#19

zombie_babies

Jan 27, 2011 9:24:47
Yeah, that's kinda where I'm at as well.  Serious often kills fun.  I used to take myself much more seriously than I do now.  It's kind of hard to keep that up once you understand just how little you actually mean, though.  Well, it was for me anyway.    That and it doesn't matter how serious we take ourselves or how serious we take life because most people just don't.  I think certain things can be serious, of course, but overall nothing really is.  So we should just do our best to enjoy our time here cuz what else can we really do?
#20

oxybe

Jan 27, 2011 13:35:21
How's that go?  Something like 'you can't take life seriously cuz you'll never make it out alive' or something?  Oh well.  Me, well, I just try to remind myself as often as possible of my status as a totally insignificant speck of dust.  I'd say more of us should do that cuz it puts things in the perspective I believe they should be seen, but then we'd all be dead.  Wait.  Yeah, I say more of us should do this. 



i've been through the mopey-emo-"sigh life is rough" stage in my life. 

d'you know what i got out it?

life sucks. it really does.

so you have 2 options:

you can cry or you can laugh.

those are your really your two options. you can either be a ***** and whine about how life is rough and how it's out to get you, or you grow a pair and roll with the punches, laugh it off with the knowledge that tomorrow is another day.

some have called me an optimistic pessimist. i flat out expect the worst in most situations and expect things to not go, but you know what? it could always be worst and my situation really isn't that bad when i look at it.

i have a roof over my head, a full belly and friends that support me. my life, truthfully, is pretty damn sweet. sure i don't have all awesome things i want, but i've really got nothing to complain about other then the forgettable everyday annoyances EVERYONE complains about. i'm not rich, but i'm not needing anything. 

to quote a bard i rather like:


Life's a piece of ****,
When you look at it.
Life's a laugh and death's a joke, it's true.
You'll see it's all a show,
Keep 'em laughing as you go.
Just remember that the last laugh is on you. 


#21

lokiare

Jan 29, 2011 20:23:08
So back on the topic...

So does anyone think the current political system is run by corporations and the rich? If so what can be done about it?

The only thing that I think might help would be to either ban Lobby's and convert them to an across the board tax for large businesses, or just require all lobbys to be put into a single pool and distributed equally rather than individually to each politician...
#22

EscherEnigma

Jan 29, 2011 20:46:50
Any "solution" is either going to be too extreme or too tame.  That is, nothing that would work would happen peacefully and nothing that would happen peacefully will work.  And while the system might not work as swimmingly as I would like, I think we're a very far cry from a situation calling for armed revolution. 
#23

rubicantx

Jan 29, 2011 20:57:02
Yes it is run by corporations.
You have only to look at the several internet blacklist bills that are secretly (for "national security reasons" they aren't announcing them to the public but they leaked) being discussed by US politicians. One was started back when GW Bush was in office (ACTA), but the newer one (COICA) started under Obama is even worse than China's.

Both basically say if a Corporation makes an accusation (even an unfounded one) of IP infringement, then the "infringing" site would be taken down imediately with no trial nor due process. The same for any sites deemed to be... "dangerous to national security". (hiel)

So if someone has a non-profit just for fun Pokemon fan-art site and the IP owners say "that infringes on our IP" then down it goes. Period. No trial, nor any democratic process.
Not to mention whistleblower sites that report on human rights violations by governments.

What can we do? Write, e-mail, and phone your congress(wo)men that you oppose or support certain bills and say why in a calm rational manner.
They'll still take the money, but if they get the message that you will be be voting but for someone else if they don't represent you they'll (maybe) vote your way when the bill comes up. You can only hope.
#24

lokiare

Jan 29, 2011 21:05:03
Yes it is run by corporations.
You have only to look at the several internet blacklist bills that are secretly (for "national security reasons" they aren't announcing them to the public but they leaked) being discussed by US politicians. One was started back when GW Bush was in office (ACTA), but the newer one (COICA) started under Obama is even worse than China's.

Both basically say if a Corporation makes an accusation (even an unfounded one) of IP infringement, then the "infringing" site would be taken down imediately with no trial nor due process. The same for any sites deemed to be... "dangerous to national security". (hiel)

So if someone has a non-profit just for fun Pokemon fan-art site and the IP owners say "that infringes on our IP" then down it goes. Period. No trial, nor any democratic process.
Not to mention whistleblower sites that report on human rights violations by governments.

What can we do? Write, e-mail, and phone your congress(wo)men that you oppose or support certain bills and say why in a calm rational manner.
They'll still take the money, but if they get the message that you will be be voting but for someone else if they don't represent you they'll (maybe) vote your way when the bill comes up. You can only hope.



That's exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about. They saw the gov't do it with the Patriot Act (which has been ruled unconstitutional in courts, and yet is still lawy), and they are following suit.

Lately the only conflicts I've seen in politics have been between different groups of corporations, not different groups of people...

Regardless of what you thought about the health care bill, you can look at how it was put into law and see right off that it was the insurance companies fighting with other corporations. The people just didn't factor into it, except as a side note on the news...