/takes bitter sounding voice
All of them should be out of work! Like me! No, this is not jealousy because I could never have those working benefits becasue I majored in beer drinkin' and wife beatin'. I say this because with all those freeloaders out of work, our economy would be much better off!
So says the government employee...
...needed and underpayed, like teachers
*wipes away tears*
Did you seriously say that with a straight face?! "I own't kerr who y'are, that's funny raht thar" /Larry
Average salary in California: $54,000. Average TEACHER salary in California: $57, 760.
If avarage salary of occupation is greater than average salary of area, then occupation is not "underpaid".
As for "needed", if you're paying 700 teachers a total of $65M A YEAR to do nothing, then that kinda supports the argument of being able to fire them.
link
Has it ever occured to you that maybe the jobs are needed and underpayed, like teachers, and they need people to stay, or, yanno, they might be, ah, how to say it, GOOD AT THEIR JOB?/)_-
I can prolly come up with another half-dozen reasonable reasons beyone "OMG BIG BROZA IZ TEH EBIL!"
Mos jobs like that, the pay is ****, the benefits are eh, and they're needed. It's like tenure, it's the only attraction to jobs like that. Seriously, cap, I thought you were better than this.
Right, they don't get paid enough so let them keep working even if they suck at life. Even though in many cases people who suck at their jobs are worse than not having anyone in that job because they get in the way of those that are actually good at their jobs. Nevermind that it usually (I say usually, since some do have some pretty specific requirements that aren't found often in the population at large) isn't that hard to find a replacement, we'll just let them muddle along.
Did you read the post? It's not a good thing. HOWEVER, it is a MUCH, MUCH, MUCH less bad thing than all the alternatives.Rapeage of education>Paying some douches too much/not firing them in terms of what shouldn't, or would be disastrous if it did, happen.
I just think if the union is that important, then the teachers can find a way to keep it going without pulling themselves out of the classroom.
Lol. These are full time jobs. They need to be paid for the work they do. It is normal that their employer, the one who hired them in the first place, pays them for the sacrifice they make (union work is hard work). They protect the teachers, who in turn teach kids. I would assume people would like teachers to have good working conditions so they can give the best to their kids.
If unions paid them, they would have any money left to defend teacher rights... Of course a lot of people do not want worker to have rights...
A) These are employees on disciplinary leave. They're not even doing union work (or weren't, until people found out). These were people literally getting paid to show up to "work" and not do their jobs.
B) If the union employs them, the union can pay them. Use less dues to make donations to politicos. Pay less money to their "Officers", etc. If they actually wanted to "give their best to the kids" they would push for a higher teacher:administrator ratio. But that would mean less union members, which means... etc. Unions are nothing more than large corporations, with more political clout.
Seriously, first you would have to come up with a reasonable reason.
link
->Assuming private sector pays well
-> assuming the info they gave isn't doctored
->ignoring minimum wage and hour cutting to avoid benefits
Also, to quote the article ""The data are not useful for a direct public-private pay comparison," says Colleen Kelley, president of the National Treasury Employees Union. "
And:
"The analysis did not consider differences in experience and education."
So, is the article right, so the numbers are, or is it wrong, and the numbers are?
I never assumed the private sector pays well. I was just disputing that the pay was worse than the private sector...
Has it ever occured to you that maybe the jobs are needed and underpayed, like teachers, and they need people to stay, or, yanno, they might be, ah, how to say it, GOOD AT THEIR JOB?/)_-
I can prolly come up with another half-dozen reasonable reasons beyone "OMG BIG BROZA IZ TEH EBIL!"
Mos jobs like that, the pay is ****, the benefits are eh, and they're needed. It's like tenure, it's the only attraction to jobs like that. Seriously, cap, I thought you were better than this.
How does the article assume the private sector pays well?
Lets assume the data isn't doctored, until you can bring up data that shows something else. Ok.
In exactly what way does the article ignore hour cutting to avoid benefits. It takes it into account (~60% greater pay alone in the public sector than private).
Would you be surprised that NTEU said that? If you don't believe the numbers, here is a link to one of their own chapters numbers/graphs.
I would like to see the data adjusted for education (supposedly such a study exists, but I can't seem to google it). Hopefully, it doesn't include too many Hien T. Trans (Hein Tran is still working for the CARB after faking his PhD. Nope, he didn't get fired after making false claims about his educational credentials. He took a paycut and was suspended for 60 days. He did such a great job last year, he got a 15% pay increase. He is well on track to retiring with a paycheck substantially larger than the average private US employee. I guess getting a PhD from a diploma mill does pay.)
...needed and underpayed, like teachers
*wipes away tears*
Did you seriously say that with a straight face?! "I own't kerr who y'are, that's funny raht thar" /Larry
Average salary in California: $54,000. Average TEACHER salary in California: $57, 760.
If avarage salary of occupation is greater than average salary of area, then occupation is not "underpaid".
As for "needed", if you're paying 700 teachers a total of $65M A YEAR to do nothing, then that kinda supports the argument of being able to fire them.
Underpaid doesn't mean they make less then the average salary. It means they aren't paid the fair amount for the work they do.
Now teachers have to teach kids, but also keep them disciplined and do the job of the parents. Not to mention all the homework they have to correct when at home and not paid.
But fair is always subjective. When people make 10k a year, they have a tendancy to be jealous and say people who make more money are just freeloaders.
Teachers rarely discipline anymore, nor do they give out much homework. The amount of homework they assign is a pitiful joke, as is their discipline and ability to actually teach kids (at least in California). We're near dead last for a reason and we need to be able to hold them accountable and fire them if they are not performing.
Lemme guess, you had to walk 2 miles uphill through a blizzard to get to your summer homework?
You betcha!
So: You claim that there's no homework. I can debunk that. You say there's no discipline. Prove it. You have no experience that's not, what, 20 years old? Thirty? Stop talking through your ass.
Debunk away. Gonna be kind of hard to do since the Cali DoE just mandated less homework. And my step-brother's a teacher in LAUSD. Do his experiences count? Personally, I'd be perfectly fine with paying good teachers extra money to teach in inner-city schools. Call it "hazard pay". I'd also be a fan of allowing them to take down armed students.
Yeah, 'splain away.
Also my smallest assignment this summer
And, from what I've heard, this English teacher can be quite the bitch, so I have to to a perfect job or not only will he give me a **** grade, but I'm trying to get a good name, 'cause all my previous English teachers have hated my guts, and'll prolly pass it along.
You're not in CA, so you're not coming from the same background experience as me (and a few others on here). Be thankful you're not a "prahdukt uv da Kalifonya publick edgumacation sistum".
Yeah, 'splain away.
Also my smallest assignment this summer
And, from what I've heard, this English teacher can be quite the bitch, so I have to to a perfect job or not only will he give me a **** grade, but I'm trying to get a good name, 'cause all my previous English teachers have hated my guts, and'll prolly pass it along.
You're not in CA, so you're not coming from the same background experience as me (and a few others on here). Be thankful you're not a "prahdukt uv da Kalifonya publick edgumacation sistum".
No, I live in WA and am in Tennessse.
an i thot it waz ejamucashun
Dadgummit! I misspelled my misspelling!
Yeah, 'splain away.
Also my smallest assignment this summer
And, from what I've heard, this English teacher can be quite the bitch, so I have to to a perfect job or not only will he give me a **** grade, but I'm trying to get a good name, 'cause all my previous English teachers have hated my guts, and'll prolly pass it along.
Nah, he's fine.
I guess people just said, **** it.
...
Anyway...
NB4Lock!
Err..
Wait..
I didn't create this thread, so nevermind...
Unions are nothing more than large corporations, with more political clout.
This is hilarious. As if union had the money or the influence corporations have. Not saying they do not have any, but only 12% of the US's work force is unionized. The money and power is in the owner's hands, not the workers (you know, cause unions represent workers).
So, if 36% of the public work force in unionized... The money and power is in who's hands?
Your own bias is showing (like it was really a secret all this time).
And yours isn't?
You wave yours around like it was the starting flag for some NASCAR race.
The corporations. You're not going to make me believe that you believe unions control politics. They have influence, but they do not have the power corporations have. Simply because the money is in the corporations's (well any private businesses really) hands. Unless unions are the owners/stock holders of all private businesses in the US.
A website called Opensecrets obviously has credibility problems and a clear bias toward anti-government and anti-union propaganda and idology. You need better sources. Your own bias is showing (like it was really a secret all this time).
No, showing the data never does for you. If you don't believe the data, you are welcome to check it. The FEC requires that political donations are disclosed. You can check the work of Opensecrets if you doubt their credibility.
I am incredibly biased, towards data. If you can show me some to the contrary...
Yeah, 'splain away.
Also my smallest assignment this summer
And, from what I've heard, this English teacher can be quite the bitch, so I have to to a perfect job or not only will he give me a **** grade, but I'm trying to get a good name, 'cause all my previous English teachers have hated my guts, and'll prolly pass it along.
Nah, he's fine.
Really? Damn, I've heard horror stories. Wilson, right?
Yeah. It may help that there were only 15 people in the class, though.
I am sure some parents who like to sue are responsable. Or parents who do not care about their kids being disciplined. I hear these stories from people who are teachers I know.
So what. This changes nothing about holding teachers accountable for their teaching actions. Nor does it mean that laws couldn't be made to keep people from suing schools for disciplining the kids there. It's not like I'm suggesting that they beat the kids.
According to you.
No. It's factual. This is the way it is in California.
Those bastards! Wait, can't you give your daughter some extra work if you feel she needs to work more? Can't yo utake part in her education?
I'm not a teacher. I don't know what he strong points and weak points are in any given subject and I don't remember much of it. TEACHERS need to be to their job and assign students work based on what the students need and TEACHERS need to be held accountable like any other profession.
All of them? Wow, I guess Californians are the problem. Ever thought of importing teachers from other states?
Wouldn't do a damn bit of good with the Teacher Union in place. Once again, YOU NEED TO BE ABLE TO HOLD TEACHERS ACCOUNTABLE.
cause kids and parents have nothign to do with this.
Kids not really. Parents yes, but parents a problem in every State, and yet many States give out good educations. That leaves teachers. Teachers need to be held accountable and fired if they can't do their job.
The solution is obvious. Whip techers and given them only bread and water for pay. If a kid gets all As, then the teacher gets a steak.
You seem far more extreme than I am, but at least you're on the right track. How about instead of doing as you want and whiping them and giving them only bread and water, we pay them and hold them accountable to do their jobs or be fired......just like anyone else.
Those bastards! Wait, can't you give your daughter some extra work if you feel she needs to work more? Can't yo utake part in her education?
I'm not a teacher. I don't know what he strong points and weak points are in any given subject and I don't remember much of it. TEACHERS need to be to their job and assign students work based on what the students need and TEACHERS need to be held accountable like any other profession.
Maybe you should take an interest in your daughter's education. You might find out what her strong points and weak points are.
Maybe you should take an interest in your daughter's education. You might find out what her strong points and weak points are.
This +1. Don't bitch the schools are not doing their jobs. sit down with your kid and help her learn. Really the only a kid learns.
I do what I can, but if the schools are not there to give her an education, then all the teachers need to be fired anyway. If I'm going to do their job for them, then they don't need to be employed.
Teacher are hired to teach, while it is also the responsibility of the patient to teach there kids, that does not excuse someone from not doing the job that they are hired for. In the other side a parent should not advocated their own responsibility to teach.
So if you work 18 hours a day, just so your kid can have a roof over there head an enough food to eat , your a bad parent because that leaves no time to help them with their education!
Maxperson has previously stated he works from home. He should have time.
Teacher are hired to teach, while it is also the responsibility of the patient to teach there kids, that does not excuse someone from not doing the job that they are hired for. In the other side a parent should not advocated their own responsibility to teach.
Teachers are hired to teach students. They can only do so while the students are in their classrooms.
I find it funny when people become outraged that teachers aren't teaching their kids what their kids need to be taught when they themselves don't know what the kid is doing. How are you going to complain about your kid not being taught when you don't even know what your kid is doing in school?
Yeah, 'splain away.
Also my smallest assignment this summer
And, from what I've heard, this English teacher can be quite the bitch, so I have to to a perfect job or not only will he give me a **** grade, but I'm trying to get a good name, 'cause all my previous English teachers have hated my guts, and'll prolly pass it along.
Unimpressed and not surprised
Not participating in the teachers subject: on one hand having government workers stuck like this may stall any significant changes in the way the country works. On the other, when you have high rotation, there may be no consistency and you end up with a mess the kind Poland is
Even if you can't help her, you should at least know.
It's all really nice to feel that teachers should be held accountable, but while you're talking about principles, your child is losing valuable chances to learn from you instead.
The probblem here is that workers are exploited, aka are not paid a fair amount for their work with government approval. If they were paid more, they wouldn't need to work so much.
This as nothing to do with teachers.
Worker exploitation, has nothing to do with teachers, you are correct. Teachers are not exploited. Eductation, however, has everything to do with teachers and if they can't do their job, they should be fired.
wizards.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wizards.cfg...
You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively. If you wish to report a post for Code of Conduct violations, click on the “Report Post” button above the post and this will submit your report to the moderators on duty.
The probblem here is that workers are exploited, aka are not paid a fair amount for their work with government approval. If they were paid more, they wouldn't need to work so much.
This as nothing to do with teachers.
Worker exploitation, has nothing to do with teachers, you are correct. Teachers are not exploited. Eductation, however, has everything to do with teachers and if they can't do their job, they should be fired.
So in other words, let them do your job as a parent and then fire them when they fail at doing what you refuse to do? Sound logical.
Or they should, anyway.
That also should make sense. You don't need to be a "qualified, paid teacher" in order to teach a child things. When the teachers are bad and your child is uneducated it's not just the teacher's fault, it's also your own for not motivating the child to either learn from you or learn on its own.
It really depends. The working conditions (salary, benefits, for teaching, ewwww, kids) might not be enough to attrack the better individuals, so you have to make concessions. People do not want to pay more taxes to make this job more attractive, so you get the teachers you deserve with that salary and those benefits (like job security). The problem is that people still whine about teachers AND how high their taxes are. They cannot be satisfied.
Clearly certain people need to be educated.
A lot do make good money and all of 'em get at least two months a year off. I get two weeks. They work at home, too, yes. So have I (at other positions) and my wife. She works hours and hours at home after work. That's not some abnormal thing. It's life in the salary world.
I understand your point, though. It's a very difficult and stressful job that needs to be made properly attractive in order to attract and retain the proper talent. But the solution isn't a benefit that makes it impossible to get rid of them when they suck. And it's hard to get people to want to pay more so teachers make more when you have situations today that see teachers that should be fired instead redirected to buildings to sit around and do nothing while still getting paid because they're not allowed to teach but also not allowed to be fired. Where is the benefit in keeping teachers on the payroll that can't teach?
It does make perfect sense. Bad teachers should be fired. But when you, as a parent, find that your child's teachers are bad, you could whine about the teachers being bad and needing to be fired (which you should, for obvious reasons) or you could do that and teach her a few things yourself if you really think she's not learning enough.
That also should make sense. You don't need to be a "qualified, paid teacher" in order to teach a child things. When the teachers are bad and your child is uneducated it's not just the teacher's fault, it's also your own for not motivating the child to either learn from you or learn on its own.
Oh yeah, ya gotta be a part of it. My only qualm is with those that think making it impossible to get rid of crappy teachers is a good thing somehow. Cuz I can't see how it's good at all.
Not all salary jobs are equal. 50k sounds like a good one, but apparently it is not enough to attrack the people we want to teach our kids. Maybe if we allowed molesting? But I digresse.
Better to pay them then have people end up jobless. Believe it or not, I believe in Basic Income Guarantee.
I'll just say I agree that better pay would be a good start. I think there's got to be a balance, though. Right now the balance is off. The perks of the job are too great. Er, at least the one that makes it impossible to get fired. ;)
Now your getting it. Soon you'll talk like a Cultural Marxist!
Da?
I imagine once certain parties catch wind of recent posteratings it'll be *poof*.
Poland ever get itself straightend out? Do you have a government yet?
Are you calling us Belgium? We're supposed to run the EU now, you know. Starting with really bad impressions
So Greece is Poland's fault?
Quiet you. Some parties my hear you and use it in their smear caimpaign (eletcions are coming upon us!)
The probblem here is that workers are exploited, aka are not paid a fair amount for their work with government approval. If they were paid more, they wouldn't need to work so much.
This as nothing to do with teachers.
Worker exploitation, has nothing to do with teachers, you are correct. Teachers are not exploited. Eductation, however, has everything to do with teachers and if they can't do their job, they should be fired.
So in other words, let them do your job as a parent and then fire them when they fail at doing what you refuse to do? Sound logical.
I don't know why you'd want them to do the job of the parent. I only want them to do the job of a teacher and you know, effectively teach the kids. If they can't do that, then they should be fired.
The probblem here is that workers are exploited, aka are not paid a fair amount for their work with government approval. If they were paid more, they wouldn't need to work so much.
This as nothing to do with teachers.
Worker exploitation, has nothing to do with teachers, you are correct. Teachers are not exploited. Eductation, however, has everything to do with teachers and if they can't do their job, they should be fired.
So in other words, let them do your job as a parent and then fire them when they fail at doing what you refuse to do? Sound logical.
I don't know why you'd want them to do the job of the parent. I only want them to do the job of a teacher and you know, effectively teach the kids. If they can't do that, then they should be fired.
Or you could take an interest in your kid's education and make sure she gets her stuff done instead.
1) I do.
2) If I have to do the teachers job, we should just fire all teachers.
3) Since no parent can be as effective at teaching SCHOOL subjects as teachers are, teachers need to do a good and effective job......or be fired.
Maybe you should give the kid back to your ex-wife. She seemed to be doing about as good as you and getting about the same results.
You get banned for your earlier post?
Maybe you should give the kid back to your ex-wife. She seemed to be doing about as good as you and getting about the same results.
You get banned for your earlier post?
No idea what you are talking about. But I did hear that you became the Web-tough-guy when you were being called a failure as a father and a useless parent.
Nobody with a brain in their head has called me that. ::shrug::
You should talk to your daughter more often then.
Do you really think I would take advice from you? You aren't even responsible enough to keep an account here, let alone be competent enough to advise me on real life.
I just want to say I think you guys are being very, very unfair to Max.
You guys have twisted the conversation.
But I've come to expect that from...
...
"certain people".
*shrug*
Thanks. I'm done with them for now.
EDIT: Isn't this place banhappy enough lately over friendly debates? Let's not let this get out of control.
Really you guys? Instead of debating the topic and backing up your points with like facts and stuff the best you can do insult someone's parenting? Even for you guys that is just a low blow.
EDIT: Isn't this place banhappy enough lately over friendly debates? Let's not let this get out of control.
They know that they can't win with facts and stuff ;)
Please? Someone?
I just have one request: Will one of you three change your avatar so I don't think its the same person arguing back and forth with him/herself? It's bugging the everloving hell out of me and I think someone else mentioned it before.
Please? Someone?
Heh. I've had this one since it came out. Not gonna be changing it anytime soon ;)
I am really disppointed with the Fantom Reporter.
This thread is still up while people are being reported for humor, also called disruption or section 6.
That's because Maxperson hasn't reported this thread yet. Give him time. He'll report it.
Maybe with more threats?
Nah... like every other internet-tough-guy, he backs off and cries about it if you confront him about it.
You know you're crazy when you start arguing with yourself...
I am really disppointed with the Fantom Reporter.
This thread is still up while people are being reported for humor, also called disruption or section 6.
That's because Maxperson hasn't reported this thread yet. Give him time. He'll report it.
Maybe with more threats?
Nah... like every other internet-tough-guy, he backs off and cries about it if you confront him about it.
You know you're crazy when you start arguing with yourself...
No I'm not!
Yes I am.
I am really disppointed with the Fantom Reporter.
This thread is still up while people are being reported for humor, also called disruption or section 6.
That's because Maxperson hasn't reported this thread yet. Give him time. He'll report it.
Maybe with more threats?
Nah... like every other internet-tough-guy, he backs off and cries about it if you confront him about it.
You know you're crazy when you start arguing with yourself...
Well, they're complete failures are refuting me with facts, so they continue with their childish antics. I win, though I guess defeating children doesn't mean a whole lot
1) Complain that bad teachers should be replaced with better teachers
2) Pick up where the teachers fail as best they can to make their children as educated as possible
Doing one but not the other, bad parenting. And really, 2) is a lot more important then 1)
Complaining will not make your child smarter unless it works, which is a really really really long shot. And by the time it starts paying off, your child will already be done with school and woefully uneducated because you didn't pick up where the teacher failed.
To me it's sounds a lot like watching someone beating up your kid, and then going "Oh man they should totally fire the incompetent policemen that let this happen and replace them with better ones" and doing nothing about it.
Except that instead of violence, sometimes children need wisdom. Judging from certain PMs I fear I can only assume Max has more of the first then the second
On topic, the reason it should be absurdly hard to fire teachers, as I've already said, is 'cause without it being that difficult, a new brain-damaged fundie governor could walk in and demand the teachers teach the bible/Idiotic Design/young Earth/etc. or be sacked Assuming you are a decent parent, I am sure that you don't want that filth being shoved down your daughter's throat, right?
So the one in a million shot is reason enough to allow incompetence in teachers? You do understand that bad teachers means bad education and that that will continue the trend, I hope. Fretting over the never has happened and likely never will is a waste of time. Using it as a reason for bad policy is just irrational reasoning.
I just want to say I think you guys are being very, very unfair to Max.
You guys have twisted the conversation.
But I've come to expect that from...
...
"certain people".
*shrug*
Well, to be fair to some of the 'certain people' (and I have no idea who those are), a PM allegedly from Max was posted a li'l ways back. In it, he basically did the ITG thing. So, those that are sayin' it have a reason to - if the PM is legit.
San Francisco State University management professorJohn Sullivan, an expert on employee turnover, says the low departure rates show a failure to release poor performers and those with obsolete skills. "Rather than indicating something positive, rates below 1% in the firing and layoff components would indicate a serious management problem,"
It is time the three letter acronyms starting tighting their belts...like the rest of us. How many of you have been at companies tha downsized 10-20% over the last few years? Why is it that three letter acronym agencies allows grow in good revenue times and bad revenue times, credit ceiling be damned.
I still don't understand how the discussion veered off towards teachers. We are talking about federal workers
Meh, I didn't understand how that happened either but chose to participate in the conversation that was actually happening.
There are exactly two things that a parent needs to do at the same time to be a good parent.
1) Complain that bad teachers should be replaced with better teachers
2) Pick up where the teachers fail as best they can to make their children as educated as possible
Doing one but not the other, bad parenting. And really, 2) is a lot more important then 1)
Complaining will not make your child smarter unless it works, which is a really really really long shot. And by the time it starts paying off, your child will already be done with school and woefully uneducated because you didn't pick up where the teacher failed.
Good post.
Judging from certain PMs I fear I can only assume Max has more of the first then the second
Right. Because saying that I take a part in her education. doing what I can do, says that :roll eyes:
On topic, the reason it should be absurdly hard to fire teachers, as I've already said, is 'cause without it being that difficult, a new brain-damaged fundie governor could walk in and demand the teachers teach the bible/Idiotic Design/young Earth/etc. or be sacked Assuming you are a decent parent, I am sure that you don't want that filth being shoved down your daughter's throat, right?
So the one in a million shot is reason enough to allow incompetence in teachers? You do understand that bad teachers means bad education and that that will continue the trend, I hope. Fretting over the never has happened and likely never will is a waste of time. Using it as a reason for bad policy is just irrational reasoning.
It's not one in a million. It's flat out impossible. A Governor cannot override the separation of Church and State. If one actually fires a teacher for that, then that teacher has hit the lottery and will cash in for a whole lot of money.
In it, he basically did the ITG thing. So, those that are sayin' it have a reason to - if the PM is legit.
What is the ITG thing? If it implies that I don't take a part in or care about my daughter's education, then the PM was doctored. Which wouldn't surprise me at all given the person who did it.
It's not one in a million. It's flat out impossible. A Governor cannot override the separation of Church and State. If one actually fires a teacher for that, then that teacher has hit the lottery and will cash in for a whole lot of money.
True enough.
What is the ITG thing? If it implies that I don't take a part in or care about my daughter's education, then the PM was doctored. Which wouldn't surprise me at all given the person who did it.
ITG = Internet Tough Guy. There was some salty language and, IIRC, a threat of physical harm.
EDIT: Checking, it wasn't a threat so much as an expressed wish to do physical harm.
Meh. I lost my temper. Regardless, nothing I said either here in the thread or in that PM legitimizes their gross mischaracterizations of how I deal with my daughter's education.
If only we could allow teachers the freedom from teaching something besides the state sponsored religion.
The state is religion. And its pontiffs are idiots.
If only we could allow teachers the freedom from teaching something besides the state sponsored religion.
That's a separate issue which needs to be addressed in addition to holding teachers responsible for teaching effectively.
College is not the place for the discussion of ideas. They don't want a diversity of opinion.
You can't speak freely in free speech areas either.
(oh the irony. Derailing my own thread.)
Meh. I lost my temper. Regardless, nothing I said either here in the thread or in that PM legitimizes their gross mischaracterizations of how I deal with my daughter's education.
It shouldn't be possible to lose your temper on an internet messaging board. It also is bad manners to threaten people with violence for something they said. If you don't believe them, ignore it or refute it. But losing your temper and threatening to punch them is stupid.
Meh. I lost my temper. Regardless, nothing I said either here in the thread or in that PM legitimizes their gross mischaracterizations of how I deal with my daughter's education.
It shouldn't be possible to lose your temper on an internet messaging board. It also is bad manners to threaten people with violence for something they said. If you don't believe them, ignore it or refute it. But losing your temper and threatening to punch them is stupid.
As was pointed out, I didn't actually threaten to punch them ;)
Do the universe a favor and argue with your child at home like a responsable adult. Don't air your laundry where the rest of OTT has to see it.
He's not. He's arguing with two different Goldy accounts.
Do the universe a favor and argue with your child at home like a responsable adult. Don't air your laundry where the rest of OTT has to see it.
He's not. He's arguing with two different Goldy accounts.
And Rataska is a new account as well. I almost responded until I saw that it was probably Goldy number three accusing me of his own actions.
I am not That_Guy_13. I know who he is and if Max had a brain, he would too. Rataska is also obvious. Think of a guy who's face is an helm.
There was a Polish webcomic about a guy with a helm as his face. It was called "Zbroj" and, like every other, it sucked.
I wanted to include a picture, but the comic is unavailable anymore. There's a "funny" text where it's homepage used to be. I'm not surprised.
I would really, really like to take a trip to Poland some day.
Out of all the places in Europe, I would rather go to Poland.
(I'm being serious, not sarcastic or snarky)
Scotland for me. Though I wouldn't mind visiting Krakow.
One of my relatives shocked American friends when she bought $100 shoes over there and treated it like no big deal... because shoes normally cost that much, right?
A warning though, most things are somewhat more expensive than elsewhere (combined with lower wages... sigh). Petrol in particular, it costs twice as much as in the US.
One of my relatives shocked American friends when she bought $100 shoes over there and treated it like no big deal... because shoes normally cost that much, right?
Ahem...
Mine do.
Maybe you should give the kid back to your ex-wife. She seemed to be doing about as good as you and getting about the same results.
You get banned for your earlier post?
Maybe you should give the kid back to your ex-wife. She seemed to be doing about as good as you and getting about the same results.
You get banned for your earlier post?
No idea what you are talking about. But I did hear that you became the Web-tough-guy when you were being called a failure as a father and a useless parent.
Nobody with a brain in their head has called me that. ::shrug::
You should talk to your daughter more often then.
Do you really think I would take advice from you? You aren't even responsible enough to keep an account here, let alone be competent enough to advise me on real life.
I just want to say I think you guys are being very, very unfair to Max.
You guys have twisted the conversation.
But I've come to expect that from...
...
"certain people".
*shrug*
Thanks. I'm done with them for now.
EDIT: Isn't this place banhappy enough lately over friendly debates? Let's not let this get out of control.
Really you guys? Instead of debating the topic and backing up your points with like facts and stuff the best you can do insult someone's parenting? Even for you guys that is just a low blow.
EDIT: Isn't this place banhappy enough lately over friendly debates? Let's not let this get out of control.
They know that they can't win with facts and stuff ;)
Please? Someone?
I just have one request: Will one of you three change your avatar so I don't think its the same person arguing back and forth with him/herself? It's bugging the everloving hell out of me and I think someone else mentioned it before.
Please? Someone?
Heh. I've had this one since it came out. Not gonna be changing it anytime soon ;)
I am really disppointed with the Fantom Reporter.
This thread is still up while people are being reported for humor, also called disruption or section 6.
That's because Maxperson hasn't reported this thread yet. Give him time. He'll report it.
Maybe with more threats?
Nah... like every other internet-tough-guy, he backs off and cries about it if you confront him about it.
You know you're crazy when you start arguing with yourself...
I am really disppointed with the Fantom Reporter.
This thread is still up while people are being reported for humor, also called disruption or section 6.
That's because Maxperson hasn't reported this thread yet. Give him time. He'll report it.
Maybe with more threats?
Nah... like every other internet-tough-guy, he backs off and cries about it if you confront him about it.
You know you're crazy when you start arguing with yourself...
No I'm not!
Yes I am.
I am really disppointed with the Fantom Reporter.
This thread is still up while people are being reported for humor, also called disruption or section 6.
That's because Maxperson hasn't reported this thread yet. Give him time. He'll report it.
Maybe with more threats?
Nah... like every other internet-tough-guy, he backs off and cries about it if you confront him about it.
You know you're crazy when you start arguing with yourself...
Well, they're complete failures are refuting me with facts, so they continue with their childish antics. I win, though I guess defeating children doesn't mean a whole lot
1) Complain that bad teachers should be replaced with better teachers
2) Pick up where the teachers fail as best they can to make their children as educated as possible
Doing one but not the other, bad parenting. And really, 2) is a lot more important then 1)
Complaining will not make your child smarter unless it works, which is a really really really long shot. And by the time it starts paying off, your child will already be done with school and woefully uneducated because you didn't pick up where the teacher failed.
To me it's sounds a lot like watching someone beating up your kid, and then going "Oh man they should totally fire the incompetent policemen that let this happen and replace them with better ones" and doing nothing about it.
Except that instead of violence, sometimes children need wisdom. Judging from certain PMs I fear I can only assume Max has more of the first then the second
On topic, the reason it should be absurdly hard to fire teachers, as I've already said, is 'cause without it being that difficult, a new brain-damaged fundie governor could walk in and demand the teachers teach the bible/Idiotic Design/young Earth/etc. or be sacked Assuming you are a decent parent, I am sure that you don't want that filth being shoved down your daughter's throat, right?
So the one in a million shot is reason enough to allow incompetence in teachers? You do understand that bad teachers means bad education and that that will continue the trend, I hope. Fretting over the never has happened and likely never will is a waste of time. Using it as a reason for bad policy is just irrational reasoning.
I just want to say I think you guys are being very, very unfair to Max.
You guys have twisted the conversation.
But I've come to expect that from...
...
"certain people".
*shrug*
Well, to be fair to some of the 'certain people' (and I have no idea who those are), a PM allegedly from Max was posted a li'l ways back. In it, he basically did the ITG thing. So, those that are sayin' it have a reason to - if the PM is legit.
San Francisco State University management professorJohn Sullivan, an expert on employee turnover, says the low departure rates show a failure to release poor performers and those with obsolete skills. "Rather than indicating something positive, rates below 1% in the firing and layoff components would indicate a serious management problem,"
It is time the three letter acronyms starting tighting their belts...like the rest of us. How many of you have been at companies tha downsized 10-20% over the last few years? Why is it that three letter acronym agencies allows grow in good revenue times and bad revenue times, credit ceiling be damned.
I still don't understand how the discussion veered off towards teachers. We are talking about federal workers
Meh, I didn't understand how that happened either but chose to participate in the conversation that was actually happening.
There are exactly two things that a parent needs to do at the same time to be a good parent.
1) Complain that bad teachers should be replaced with better teachers
2) Pick up where the teachers fail as best they can to make their children as educated as possible
Doing one but not the other, bad parenting. And really, 2) is a lot more important then 1)
Complaining will not make your child smarter unless it works, which is a really really really long shot. And by the time it starts paying off, your child will already be done with school and woefully uneducated because you didn't pick up where the teacher failed.
Good post.
Judging from certain PMs I fear I can only assume Max has more of the first then the second
Right. Because saying that I take a part in her education. doing what I can do, says that :roll eyes:
On topic, the reason it should be absurdly hard to fire teachers, as I've already said, is 'cause without it being that difficult, a new brain-damaged fundie governor could walk in and demand the teachers teach the bible/Idiotic Design/young Earth/etc. or be sacked Assuming you are a decent parent, I am sure that you don't want that filth being shoved down your daughter's throat, right?
So the one in a million shot is reason enough to allow incompetence in teachers? You do understand that bad teachers means bad education and that that will continue the trend, I hope. Fretting over the never has happened and likely never will is a waste of time. Using it as a reason for bad policy is just irrational reasoning.
It's not one in a million. It's flat out impossible. A Governor cannot override the separation of Church and State. If one actually fires a teacher for that, then that teacher has hit the lottery and will cash in for a whole lot of money.
In it, he basically did the ITG thing. So, those that are sayin' it have a reason to - if the PM is legit.
What is the ITG thing? If it implies that I don't take a part in or care about my daughter's education, then the PM was doctored. Which wouldn't surprise me at all given the person who did it.
It's not one in a million. It's flat out impossible. A Governor cannot override the separation of Church and State. If one actually fires a teacher for that, then that teacher has hit the lottery and will cash in for a whole lot of money.
True enough.
What is the ITG thing? If it implies that I don't take a part in or care about my daughter's education, then the PM was doctored. Which wouldn't surprise me at all given the person who did it.
ITG = Internet Tough Guy. There was some salty language and, IIRC, a threat of physical harm.
EDIT: Checking, it wasn't a threat so much as an expressed wish to do physical harm.
Meh. I lost my temper. Regardless, nothing I said either here in the thread or in that PM legitimizes their gross mischaracterizations of how I deal with my daughter's education.
If only we could allow teachers the freedom from teaching something besides the state sponsored religion.
The state is religion. And its pontiffs are idiots.
If only we could allow teachers the freedom from teaching something besides the state sponsored religion.
That's a separate issue which needs to be addressed in addition to holding teachers responsible for teaching effectively.
College is not the place for the discussion of ideas. They don't want a diversity of opinion.
You can't speak freely in free speech areas either.
(oh the irony. Derailing my own thread.)
Meh. I lost my temper. Regardless, nothing I said either here in the thread or in that PM legitimizes their gross mischaracterizations of how I deal with my daughter's education.
It shouldn't be possible to lose your temper on an internet messaging board. It also is bad manners to threaten people with violence for something they said. If you don't believe them, ignore it or refute it. But losing your temper and threatening to punch them is stupid.
Meh. I lost my temper. Regardless, nothing I said either here in the thread or in that PM legitimizes their gross mischaracterizations of how I deal with my daughter's education.
It shouldn't be possible to lose your temper on an internet messaging board. It also is bad manners to threaten people with violence for something they said. If you don't believe them, ignore it or refute it. But losing your temper and threatening to punch them is stupid.
As was pointed out, I didn't actually threaten to punch them ;)
Do the universe a favor and argue with your child at home like a responsable adult. Don't air your laundry where the rest of OTT has to see it.
He's not. He's arguing with two different Goldy accounts.
Do the universe a favor and argue with your child at home like a responsable adult. Don't air your laundry where the rest of OTT has to see it.
He's not. He's arguing with two different Goldy accounts.
And Rataska is a new account as well. I almost responded until I saw that it was probably Goldy number three accusing me of his own actions.
I am not That_Guy_13. I know who he is and if Max had a brain, he would too. Rataska is also obvious. Think of a guy who's face is an helm.
There was a Polish webcomic about a guy with a helm as his face. It was called "Zbroj" and, like every other, it sucked.
I wanted to include a picture, but the comic is unavailable anymore. There's a "funny" text where it's homepage used to be. I'm not surprised.
I would really, really like to take a trip to Poland some day.
Out of all the places in Europe, I would rather go to Poland.
(I'm being serious, not sarcastic or snarky)
Scotland for me. Though I wouldn't mind visiting Krakow.
One of my relatives shocked American friends when she bought $100 shoes over there and treated it like no big deal... because shoes normally cost that much, right?
A warning though, most things are somewhat more expensive than elsewhere (combined with lower wages... sigh). Petrol in particular, it costs twice as much as in the US.
One of my relatives shocked American friends when she bought $100 shoes over there and treated it like no big deal... because shoes normally cost that much, right?
Ahem...
Mine do.
Maybe you should give the kid back to your ex-wife. She seemed to be doing about as good as you and getting about the same results.
You get banned for your earlier post?
Maybe you should give the kid back to your ex-wife. She seemed to be doing about as good as you and getting about the same results.
You get banned for your earlier post?
No idea what you are talking about. But I did hear that you became the Web-tough-guy when you were being called a failure as a father and a useless parent.
Nobody with a brain in their head has called me that. ::shrug::
You should talk to your daughter more often then.
Do you really think I would take advice from you? You aren't even responsible enough to keep an account here, let alone be competent enough to advise me on real life.
I just want to say I think you guys are being very, very unfair to Max.
You guys have twisted the conversation.
But I've come to expect that from...
...
"certain people".
*shrug*
Thanks. I'm done with them for now.
EDIT: Isn't this place banhappy enough lately over friendly debates? Let's not let this get out of control.
Really you guys? Instead of debating the topic and backing up your points with like facts and stuff the best you can do insult someone's parenting? Even for you guys that is just a low blow.
EDIT: Isn't this place banhappy enough lately over friendly debates? Let's not let this get out of control.
They know that they can't win with facts and stuff ;)
Please? Someone?
I just have one request: Will one of you three change your avatar so I don't think its the same person arguing back and forth with him/herself? It's bugging the everloving hell out of me and I think someone else mentioned it before.
Please? Someone?
Heh. I've had this one since it came out. Not gonna be changing it anytime soon ;)
I am really disppointed with the Fantom Reporter.
This thread is still up while people are being reported for humor, also called disruption or section 6.
That's because Maxperson hasn't reported this thread yet. Give him time. He'll report it.
Maybe with more threats?
Nah... like every other internet-tough-guy, he backs off and cries about it if you confront him about it.
You know you're crazy when you start arguing with yourself...
I am really disppointed with the Fantom Reporter.
This thread is still up while people are being reported for humor, also called disruption or section 6.
That's because Maxperson hasn't reported this thread yet. Give him time. He'll report it.
Maybe with more threats?
Nah... like every other internet-tough-guy, he backs off and cries about it if you confront him about it.
You know you're crazy when you start arguing with yourself...
No I'm not!
Yes I am.
I am really disppointed with the Fantom Reporter.
This thread is still up while people are being reported for humor, also called disruption or section 6.
That's because Maxperson hasn't reported this thread yet. Give him time. He'll report it.
Maybe with more threats?
Nah... like every other internet-tough-guy, he backs off and cries about it if you confront him about it.
You know you're crazy when you start arguing with yourself...
Well, they're complete failures are refuting me with facts, so they continue with their childish antics. I win, though I guess defeating children doesn't mean a whole lot
1) Complain that bad teachers should be replaced with better teachers
2) Pick up where the teachers fail as best they can to make their children as educated as possible
Doing one but not the other, bad parenting. And really, 2) is a lot more important then 1)
Complaining will not make your child smarter unless it works, which is a really really really long shot. And by the time it starts paying off, your child will already be done with school and woefully uneducated because you didn't pick up where the teacher failed.
To me it's sounds a lot like watching someone beating up your kid, and then going "Oh man they should totally fire the incompetent policemen that let this happen and replace them with better ones" and doing nothing about it.
Except that instead of violence, sometimes children need wisdom. Judging from certain PMs I fear I can only assume Max has more of the first then the second
On topic, the reason it should be absurdly hard to fire teachers, as I've already said, is 'cause without it being that difficult, a new brain-damaged fundie governor could walk in and demand the teachers teach the bible/Idiotic Design/young Earth/etc. or be sacked Assuming you are a decent parent, I am sure that you don't want that filth being shoved down your daughter's throat, right?
So the one in a million shot is reason enough to allow incompetence in teachers? You do understand that bad teachers means bad education and that that will continue the trend, I hope. Fretting over the never has happened and likely never will is a waste of time. Using it as a reason for bad policy is just irrational reasoning.
I just want to say I think you guys are being very, very unfair to Max.
You guys have twisted the conversation.
But I've come to expect that from...
...
"certain people".
*shrug*
Well, to be fair to some of the 'certain people' (and I have no idea who those are), a PM allegedly from Max was posted a li'l ways back. In it, he basically did the ITG thing. So, those that are sayin' it have a reason to - if the PM is legit.
San Francisco State University management professorJohn Sullivan, an expert on employee turnover, says the low departure rates show a failure to release poor performers and those with obsolete skills. "Rather than indicating something positive, rates below 1% in the firing and layoff components would indicate a serious management problem,"
It is time the three letter acronyms starting tighting their belts...like the rest of us. How many of you have been at companies tha downsized 10-20% over the last few years? Why is it that three letter acronym agencies allows grow in good revenue times and bad revenue times, credit ceiling be damned.
I still don't understand how the discussion veered off towards teachers. We are talking about federal workers
Meh, I didn't understand how that happened either but chose to participate in the conversation that was actually happening.
There are exactly two things that a parent needs to do at the same time to be a good parent.
1) Complain that bad teachers should be replaced with better teachers
2) Pick up where the teachers fail as best they can to make their children as educated as possible
Doing one but not the other, bad parenting. And really, 2) is a lot more important then 1)
Complaining will not make your child smarter unless it works, which is a really really really long shot. And by the time it starts paying off, your child will already be done with school and woefully uneducated because you didn't pick up where the teacher failed.
Good post.
Judging from certain PMs I fear I can only assume Max has more of the first then the second
Right. Because saying that I take a part in her education. doing what I can do, says that :roll eyes:
On topic, the reason it should be absurdly hard to fire teachers, as I've already said, is 'cause without it being that difficult, a new brain-damaged fundie governor could walk in and demand the teachers teach the bible/Idiotic Design/young Earth/etc. or be sacked Assuming you are a decent parent, I am sure that you don't want that filth being shoved down your daughter's throat, right?
So the one in a million shot is reason enough to allow incompetence in teachers? You do understand that bad teachers means bad education and that that will continue the trend, I hope. Fretting over the never has happened and likely never will is a waste of time. Using it as a reason for bad policy is just irrational reasoning.
It's not one in a million. It's flat out impossible. A Governor cannot override the separation of Church and State. If one actually fires a teacher for that, then that teacher has hit the lottery and will cash in for a whole lot of money.
In it, he basically did the ITG thing. So, those that are sayin' it have a reason to - if the PM is legit.
What is the ITG thing? If it implies that I don't take a part in or care about my daughter's education, then the PM was doctored. Which wouldn't surprise me at all given the person who did it.
It's not one in a million. It's flat out impossible. A Governor cannot override the separation of Church and State. If one actually fires a teacher for that, then that teacher has hit the lottery and will cash in for a whole lot of money.
True enough.
What is the ITG thing? If it implies that I don't take a part in or care about my daughter's education, then the PM was doctored. Which wouldn't surprise me at all given the person who did it.
ITG = Internet Tough Guy. There was some salty language and, IIRC, a threat of physical harm.
EDIT: Checking, it wasn't a threat so much as an expressed wish to do physical harm.
Meh. I lost my temper. Regardless, nothing I said either here in the thread or in that PM legitimizes their gross mischaracterizations of how I deal with my daughter's education.
If only we could allow teachers the freedom from teaching something besides the state sponsored religion.
The state is religion. And its pontiffs are idiots.
If only we could allow teachers the freedom from teaching something besides the state sponsored religion.
That's a separate issue which needs to be addressed in addition to holding teachers responsible for teaching effectively.
College is not the place for the discussion of ideas. They don't want a diversity of opinion.
You can't speak freely in free speech areas either.
(oh the irony. Derailing my own thread.)
Meh. I lost my temper. Regardless, nothing I said either here in the thread or in that PM legitimizes their gross mischaracterizations of how I deal with my daughter's education.
It shouldn't be possible to lose your temper on an internet messaging board. It also is bad manners to threaten people with violence for something they said. If you don't believe them, ignore it or refute it. But losing your temper and threatening to punch them is stupid.
Meh. I lost my temper. Regardless, nothing I said either here in the thread or in that PM legitimizes their gross mischaracterizations of how I deal with my daughter's education.
It shouldn't be possible to lose your temper on an internet messaging board. It also is bad manners to threaten people with violence for something they said. If you don't believe them, ignore it or refute it. But losing your temper and threatening to punch them is stupid.
As was pointed out, I didn't actually threaten to punch them ;)
Do the universe a favor and argue with your child at home like a responsable adult. Don't air your laundry where the rest of OTT has to see it.
He's not. He's arguing with two different Goldy accounts.
Do the universe a favor and argue with your child at home like a responsable adult. Don't air your laundry where the rest of OTT has to see it.
He's not. He's arguing with two different Goldy accounts.
And Rataska is a new account as well. I almost responded until I saw that it was probably Goldy number three accusing me of his own actions.
I am not That_Guy_13. I know who he is and if Max had a brain, he would too. Rataska is also obvious. Think of a guy who's face is an helm.
There was a Polish webcomic about a guy with a helm as his face. It was called "Zbroj" and, like every other, it sucked.
I wanted to include a picture, but the comic is unavailable anymore. There's a "funny" text where it's homepage used to be. I'm not surprised.
I would really, really like to take a trip to Poland some day.
Out of all the places in Europe, I would rather go to Poland.
(I'm being serious, not sarcastic or snarky)
Scotland for me. Though I wouldn't mind visiting Krakow.
One of my relatives shocked American friends when she bought $100 shoes over there and treated it like no big deal... because shoes normally cost that much, right?
A warning though, most things are somewhat more expensive than elsewhere (combined with lower wages... sigh). Petrol in particular, it costs twice as much as in the US.
One of my relatives shocked American friends when she bought $100 shoes over there and treated it like no big deal... because shoes normally cost that much, right?
Ahem...
Mine do.