Carracks - 24 hour sailing?

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

Blakey

Feb 13, 2013 2:02:32
Hi,

Been doing some research into Carracks.  So far I have been able to determine that they cover about 80 miles per day.  What I can't find out is did they sail at night or would they weigh anchor and stay in one place at night?   Does anyone know?  And can you provide any references?

Many thanks
Blakey
#2

The_Silversword

Feb 13, 2013 4:07:28
I dunno, thats kinda like asking when goin on family vacations do you stop at a motel or just keep cruising? Some people stop, some people drive in shifts, some people take a bunch of coffee and no-doze and drive on into the night, knowhatimena?

Any way why do you need to know this? And dont say its for D&D, we're not allowed to talk about D&D here, so it better be good. 
#3

Blakey

Feb 13, 2013 4:10:31
I dunno, thats kinda like asking when goin on family vacations do you stop at a motel or just keep cruising? Some people stop, some people drive in shifts, some people take a bunch of coffee and no-doze and drive on into the night, knowhatimena?



Okay, so would 80 miles in a day assume an 8 hour sailing day (e.g. speed of 10 miles an hour?).    I have no idea what sort of average speeds a carrack might get up to.


Any way why do you need to know this? And dont say its for D&D, we're not allowed to talk about D&D here, so it better be good. 



Reason:  I'm writing a book and need to know the answer for that.
#4

The_Silversword

Feb 13, 2013 4:32:29
Is it a work of fiction? You could just make it up. 

But yeah 80 miles in day, I think they would of stopped somewhere like you said, probably get alot further than 80 miles if they was sailing all night too, that is if winds are favorable, so who knows? 
#5

Blakey

Feb 13, 2013 5:01:33
It is fiction yes but I'd like some realistic ideas for times and distances.

Thanks!
#6

Robin_Hoodlum

Feb 13, 2013 6:21:34
#7

mellored

Feb 13, 2013 8:51:35
They worked in shifts and went all day and all night.  With between 200-500 people on board.  Stars where prime good for navigation.
#8

Blakey

Feb 13, 2013 9:03:58
They worked in shifts and went all day and all night.  With between 200-500 people on board.  Stars where prime good for navigation.



So we are talking 80 miles in 24 hours or 3.3 miles per hour?
#9

zombie_babies

Feb 13, 2013 9:12:39
So we are talking 80 miles in 24 hours or 3.3 miles per hour 2.87 knots?



#10

Count_Von_CoC

Feb 13, 2013 9:42:32
Kinda depends. Were they ocean-going vessels or coast-huggers? If they were ocean-going, how would you expect them carry miles of chain or rope in order for the anchor to reach the bottom?
#11

Ragnar_Lodbrok

Feb 13, 2013 11:33:27
Carracks were ocean-goers, IIRC. So yes, they would move all 24 hours of the day.
#12

mellored

Feb 13, 2013 12:10:37
They worked in shifts and went all day and all night.  With between 200-500 people on board.  Stars where prime good for navigation.



So we are talking 80 miles in 24 hours or 3.3 miles per hour?

With 500-1000 tonns of cargo (including food, cannons or whatever), yes.  They where big, long range, and tough enough to survive (most) ocean storms.  They would be out for 3-12 months at a time.

Caravels where the smaller, faster ones.  But still, with a crew of 20-50, they could sail at night.  They would go for weeks.  Though since they traveled closer to shore, they could restock easier.
#13

The_Silversword

Feb 13, 2013 12:15:00
80 miles seems like a short distance though if theyre sailing all night too.
#14

zombie_babies

Feb 13, 2013 12:27:42
Not if they're limited to basically 3 knots.  And gigantic, overweight, wind or oar powered vessels could easily be limited to 3 knots.

EDIT: Quick teh googlez shows a carrack's max speed is 8 knots.  Max is usually measured under optimal conditions which, of course, would indicate an unladen vessel.  So yeah, 3 knots is probably an accurate estimate.

EDIT2: Teh googlez also shows an average speed of 80 miles per day.  Exactly what the OP said.  Soooo ... lrn2googlez, nub.
#15

Count_Von_CoC

Feb 13, 2013 13:28:38
ZB, when you calculated the average speed, did you factor in the fact that those were probably nautical miles, rather than standard? Nautical miles are worth more, kinda like USD versus Canadian dollars.
#16

zombie_babies

Feb 13, 2013 13:32:31
ZB, when you calculated the average speed, did you factor in the fact that those were probably nautical miles, rather than standard? Nautical miles are worth more, kinda like USD versus Canadian dollars.



I used teh googlez to find a converter (mph to knot) and then confirmed the calculations via Wikipedia - also reached by teh googlez.  Ya'all should learn how to, like, googlez stuff. 
#17

Count_Von_CoC

Feb 13, 2013 13:37:24
Harder to do from a phone. And it's more fun to make fun of Canadians, too. You should try it sometime.
#18

zombie_babies

Feb 13, 2013 14:01:59
Heh, hang on.  I gots me some math to give ya'all.  Too bad forums is makin' it less than fun to enter it.

Math derp:

80 miles (not specified as nautical or not, unfortunately) in a 24 hour period means, as the OP calculated, 3.33 miles per hour.  1mph = .868976 knots.  3.33 mph x .868976 knots = 2.89 knots. 

In other words, the math is right so long as the OP's assumption that the original ...80 miles in a 24 hour period) was using conventional mile measurement.  If not, oh well. 

Ok, let's say the original expression was in nautical miles.  What then?  Well, there's 1.151 mph per knot.  We had a speed of 3.33 conventional mph.  3.33*1.151 = 3.82 knots. 

I think.  ;)
#19

EruditeApe

Feb 13, 2013 14:22:53
What is this I don't even...
#20

zombie_babies

Feb 13, 2013 14:30:21
It's what happens when I get caught up in a Wiki page about nothing.
#21

EruditeApe

Feb 13, 2013 14:33:49
It's what happens when I get caught up in a Wiki page about nothing.

I was more referring to the OP and the idea of ocean boats stopping every night.
#22

zombie_babies

Feb 13, 2013 14:59:41
Well yeah, there's that too. 
#23

Robin_Hoodlum

Feb 13, 2013 15:19:48
And since this is for a work of fiction as opposed to a science experiment/ study, then make it up.
/ end of thread.
#24

zombie_babies

Feb 13, 2013 15:30:31
After all that work I did no way he's makin' it up, dammit! 
#25

trappedslider

Feb 13, 2013 18:14:49
And since this is for a work of fiction as opposed to a science experiment/ study, then make it up.
/ end of thread.



some writers perfer to base stuff in reality...
#26

Robin_Hoodlum

Feb 13, 2013 18:49:38
And since this is for a work of fiction as opposed to a science experiment/ study, then make it up.
/ end of thread.



some writers perfer to base stuff in reality...


So?
He's not writing a technical manual.
And how many readers are going to say "What the hell! He wrote that boat going 95 miles in one day whereas I KNOW they can only do 80! This book is terrible! It has broken my immersion!!"?
So... yeah.
#27

homicidal_squirrel

Feb 13, 2013 18:50:57

So?
He's not writing a technical manual.
And how many readers are going to say "What the hell! He wrote that boat going 95 miles in one day whereas I KNOW they can omly do 80! This book is terrible! It has broken my immersion!!"?
So... yeah.

ZB would. That guy is a jerk.

#28

Robin_Hoodlum

Feb 13, 2013 19:06:30

So?
He's not writing a technical manual.
And how many readers are going to say "What the hell! He wrote that boat going 95 miles in one day whereas I KNOW they can omly do 80! This book is terrible! It has broken my immersion!!"?
So... yeah.

ZB would. That guy is a jerk.



Pffttt.
ZB isn't even sure if his units are Imperial miles or nautical miles to begin with. So even if he did care, he wouldn't know if it were truly wrong or not.
#29

homicidal_squirrel

Feb 13, 2013 19:47:15

So?
He's not writing a technical manual.
And how many readers are going to say "What the hell! He wrote that boat going 95 miles in one day whereas I KNOW they can omly do 80! This book is terrible! It has broken my immersion!!"?
So... yeah.

ZB would. That guy is a jerk.



Pffttt.
ZB isn't even sure if his units are Imperial miles or nautical miles to begin with. So even if he did care, he wouldn't know if it were truly wrong or not.

His stupidity won't stop his jerkitude. He will still complain.

#30

Mad_Jack

Feb 13, 2013 21:11:30

And how many readers are going to say "What the hell! He wrote that boat going 95 miles in one day whereas I KNOW they can only do 80! This book is terrible! It has broken my immersion!!"?


 Do you read a lot of hard science fiction? I've actually seen people get out paper and pencils and start doing advanced mathematical equations while arguing about technical details like how fast a ship can go... And these were starships, nevermind real ships.


#31

trappedslider

Feb 13, 2013 21:13:13

And how many readers are going to say "What the hell! He wrote that boat going 95 miles in one day whereas I KNOW they can only do 80! This book is terrible! It has broken my immersion!!"?


 Do you read a lot of hard science fiction? I've actually seen people get out paper and pencils and start doing advanced mathematical equations while arguing about technical details like how fast a ship can go... And these were starships, nevermind real ships.





this and tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Show...
#32

Robin_Hoodlum

Feb 14, 2013 5:23:33

And how many readers are going to say "What the hell! He wrote that boat going 95 miles in one day whereas I KNOW they can only do 80! This book is terrible! It has broken my immersion!!"?


 Do you read a lot of hard science fiction? I've actually seen people get out paper and pencils and start doing advanced mathematical equations while arguing about technical details like how fast a ship can go... And these were starships, nevermind real ships.




Those people need to get a life.
#33

zombie_babies

Feb 14, 2013 8:11:10
Those people need to get a life.



No we don't!!  :Shakefist:
#34

Pyrate_Jib

Feb 14, 2013 12:24:32
I seem to recall that the ships Columbus and Magellan used were considered Carracks.  I have had a chance to visit a replica of the Santa Maria so you could find some real world knowledge by contacting that the living history group that owns the ship.  Another source for information can be found on the web site pyracy pub.  They have a forum that deals with all sorts of nautical craft. 
#35

zombie_babies

Feb 14, 2013 12:30:11
dood, I already calculated all that needs calculatin'.  Man, ain't nobody thankful for nothin' no more. 
#36

homicidal_squirrel

Feb 14, 2013 12:40:47
dood, I already calculated all that needs calculatin'.  Man, ain't nobody thankful for nothin' no more. 


No one cares. Now shut up, and go back to cleaning toilets!
#37

zombie_babies

Feb 14, 2013 13:03:42
I will not! 
#38

homicidal_squirrel

Feb 14, 2013 13:49:20
Do it!
 
#39

zombie_babies

Feb 14, 2013 14:02:40
Nevah!! 
#40

homicidal_squirrel

Feb 14, 2013 14:03:10
Now!!!
#41

zombie_babies

Feb 14, 2013 14:07:39
Later?
#42

homicidal_squirrel

Feb 14, 2013 14:12:25
No!
#43

zombie_babies

Feb 14, 2013 14:29:50
Too bad!! 
#44

EruditeApe

Feb 14, 2013 15:13:49
What the hell? 
#45

Hipster_Dog

Feb 14, 2013 15:41:49
Bunch of sheeple!
#46

zombie_babies

Feb 14, 2013 15:56:35
Shut up!!
#47

trappedslider

Feb 14, 2013 16:09:49
dood, I already calculated all that needs calculatin'.  Man, ain't nobody thankful for nothin' no more. 



well if it matters i thought it was interesting
#48

draco1119

Feb 14, 2013 16:52:15
dood, I already calculated all that needs calculatin'.  Man, ain't nobody thankful for nothin' no more. 

well if it matters i thought it was interesting

Quit ****in' up the rotation!  
#49

Robin_Hoodlum

Feb 14, 2013 16:56:08
dood, I already calculated all that needs calculatin'.  Man, ain't nobody thankful for nothin' no more. 



well if it matters i thought it was interesting


It doesn't matter, so...
#50

zombie_babies

Feb 15, 2013 8:49:40
well if it matters i thought it was interesting



  Thank you.