Cat vs Commoner - real life - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 ciaran Feb 04, 2009 0:03:54	Most of you are familiar with the old joke about a Cat, straight from the Monster Manual - being able to single-handedly kill a family of elven commoners, and all the variants thus. Well, a buddy of mine shared with me a story about his abusive - but estranged for years now - father. He was scratched by his cat and is now - thanks to meds lowering his immune system - in critical care in the hospitol. I would have kept a straight face during his story but he was laughing the whole time.
#2 aethelas Feb 04, 2009 7:59:07	That is a fairly ridiculous story. I actually am wondering...what's tha (+0 LA) in your sig mean? That's not an abbreviation I'm familiar with....
#3 batshido Feb 04, 2009 8:03:58	I actually am wondering...what's tha (+0 LA) in your sig mean? That's not an abbreviation I'm familiar with.... It's Level Adjustment. Some monsterous races in 3rd Edition had adjustments to their effective level if they were used as PCs. Standard goblins didn't, but there was at least one subspecies (Grays, I believe) that did.
#4 Cpt_Micha Feb 04, 2009 8:05:39	Actually IIRC goblins had Negative Level adjustments. Or am I thinking of Kobolds?
#5 ADHadh Feb 04, 2009 10:24:38	Actually IIRC goblins had Negative Level adjustments. Or am I thinking of Kobolds? I don't think there were any negative LAs. There were fractional CRs though.
#6 Cpt_Micha Feb 04, 2009 12:18:30	I seem to remember a Level -4 race.
#7 ciaran Feb 04, 2009 17:22:52	Yes, Goblins are - according to the rulebooks - as suitable a playerable race as human, elf or dwarf. I played one for some months. It was fun but they're nothing special.
#8 terronus Feb 04, 2009 18:21:01	Actually... don't cat bites often lead to infections? Kinda like the opposite of a dog? Or is that a myth?
#9 bob_loblaw Feb 04, 2009 18:22:13	I seem to remember a Level -4 race. There was a template in Savage Species (Half-golem?) that provided a penalty to the LA.
#10 braveboudica Feb 05, 2009 8:55:15	Actually... don't cat bites often lead to infections? Kinda like the opposite of a dog? Or is that a myth? Actually, if you get bitten by a cat, it's just like any other wound. If you don't take care of it, it can get infected. If you take care of it, it's no worse than any other. The important part of this question though it what you did to the cat to make it bite you in the first place. Cats use their claws way before they use their teeth, so if you're bitten, you've most likely waded through a lot of scratching first. The only time a cat bite should be a concern is if it's carrying a disease like rabies. Cats and humans are so similar they can transfer colds and such back and forth, so if the cat's sick and it bites you, you may get whatever it has, but that's a no brainer. Dogs mouths aren't any cleaner than a human's either. They've done tests on that and determined that the sorts of bacteria that live in a dog's mouth are different than those in a human's mouth, but they are still as dirty. Share your ice cream with your dog at your own risk!!! Cue cheesy horror music Dog bites are more serious simply because dogs have larger, stronger jaws than cats do, and as such, can bite deeper into your flesh and even into your muscles. A cat on the other hand, poses no such threat unless you are a small rodent. A dog bite should be looked at by a professional due to most antiseptics not being for use in deep puncture wounds. They will be able to give you salves and such that will help you out.
#11 terronus Feb 05, 2009 15:20:30	I did a bit of quick searching, and it seems that there is some sort of middle ground to what you and I first purposed: VetInfo Digest Cat bites account for about 10% of reported animal bites. Dog bites account for about 80 to 90% of reported bites and there are approximately 12 to 15 fatalities per year in the U.S. from dog bites, as well. Cat bites become infected between 30 and 60% of the time based on various reference sources . Dog bites become infected approximately 10 to 20% of the time. Even when infection does not occur the crushing injuries produced by bites can cause significant damage to tendons and joints. It is very important to have all penetrating dog and cat bite injuries examined by your physician and to have a recheck examination done whenever a bite involves a hand or is located in very close proximity to a joint or tendon. Any pain or loss of function still present 3 to 5 days after the initial wound should be reported to your physician. source
#12 elondir Feb 05, 2009 16:00:10	I still have a very small scar on my hand in between my thumb and index finger where a cat bit me a few years ago.
#13 count_arioch_the_28th Feb 05, 2009 16:05:58	Also, keep in mind that cat saliva is mildly poisonous, so getting clawed or bit by a cat can hurt like hell. Also, cats carry a lot more bacteria in their claws, so they are more likely to become infected if not taken care of.
#14 dirtyfrank Feb 05, 2009 16:11:48	I seem to remember a Level -4 race. Kobolds have a -4 strength in 3e. Is that what you were thinking of?
#15 aluman Feb 05, 2009 16:17:26	Also, keep in mind that cat saliva is mildly poisonous, so getting clawed or bit by a cat can hurt like hell. Also, cats carry a lot more bacteria in their claws, so they are more likely to become infected if not taken care of. Poisonous? You are kidding right? I mean seriously. Poisonous mammals number 5. One is the platypus, the other four are types of shrews, and one of them is only believed to be venomous.
#16 m-bark Feb 05, 2009 16:17:31	On point de LA: There was a batlike race with -2 LA. I only found it in one of the Crystalkeep files though, not in a book. On point de Catbite: I've been kitten by a bat once right between the thumb and index finger when I was 8. It left two fine little marks there. Good thing the cat wasn't big and it wasn't my neck. That would have left some scars that would have raised some awkward questions.
#17 terronus Feb 05, 2009 16:19:52	Poisonous? You are kidding right? I mean seriously. Poisonous mammals number 5. One is the platypus, the other four are types of shrews, and one of them is only believed to be venomous. Somehow, the way you phrased that made me think of Mambo number 5. Now I'm going to be singing about poisonous mammals all day.
#18 count_arioch_the_28th Feb 05, 2009 16:27:01	Yeah, that's why when cats play too long with small animals, they die. It's because they die from the toxicity of their saliva, and they cover their claws in the stuff too for added effect. If cats weren't so cute, we'd hate the little bastards. On topic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzgfGhqQ4KQ
#19 aluman Feb 05, 2009 16:44:12	Yeah, that's why when cats play too long with small animals, they die. It's because they die from the toxicity of their saliva, and they cover their claws in the stuff too for added effect. Yeah its not the fact that they are batting something about a third of their size around. Though I am little more sure you are joking about the toxicity issues. If cats weren't so cute, we'd hate the little bastards. I don't care for 'em anyway.
#20 aluman Feb 05, 2009 16:44:43	Somehow, the way you phrased that made me think of Mambo number 5. Now I'm going to be singing about poisonous mammals all day. :D I live to torment!
#21 lofgren Feb 05, 2009 16:46:03	Yeah, that's why when cats play too long with small animals, they die. It's because they die from the toxicity of their saliva, and they cover their claws in the stuff too for added effect. Yeah… no. Would you like to rephrase, or are you actually going to stick with this story?
#22 Crackerjake Feb 05, 2009 16:46:10	Cats are evil. Here's an example of their evilness: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmRTGRbrATs&feature=channel Subwoofers annoy and bother us everyday, yet this cat is sitting RIGHT ON TOP OF IT, and acting as if NOTHING is going on. It's evil, man.
#23 count_arioch_the_28th Feb 05, 2009 17:10:31	Yeah… no. Would you like to rephrase, or are you actually going to stick with this story? Let me rephrase then. There is a bacteria that live in Cat's mouths that produces a toxin that the cats themselves are immune to (unusual, as cat livers are nigh worthless). When they coat their claws with their saliva while cleaning, they transfer the toxin to their claws. That's the more scientifically correct terminology, but the end effect is the same. Similar to smaller, less dangerous Komodo Dragons.
#24 lofgren Feb 05, 2009 17:36:38	Komodo dragons do have actual venom. But thank you. Everything has bacteria in its mouth. Venom is much more rare, especially in mammals. It's an important distinction.
#25 terronus Feb 05, 2009 17:44:08	Not to nitpick, but the venom of a komodo dragon (at least to my understanding) is fairly mild compared to the bacteria which is normally toxic enough to kill. And while all animals have bacteria in their mouths, the previous sources I cited estimated anywhere from 30-80% of cat bites become dangerously infected, while dog bites (for example) have an infection rate of 10-20%. I only wish to distinguish its more important the type of bacteria transmitted rather than every animal carries bacteria.
#26 count_arioch_the_28th Feb 05, 2009 17:50:49	But thank you. Everything has bacteria in its mouth. Venom is much more rare, especially in mammals. It's an important distinction. Well, not everything has bacteria that excretes a chemical highly toxic to avians and rodents, and is enough to cause humans to rarely go into a severe allergic reaction requiring immediate emergency treatment.
#27 lofgren Feb 05, 2009 17:53:28	Not to nitpick, but the venom of a komodo dragon (at least to my understanding) is fairly mild compared to the bacteria which is normally toxic enough to kill. Very true, but they do have some venom that seems to be related to rattlesnake poison. I still think saying a cat is "poisonous" is inaccurate enough that it bears correction. It's the difference between washing a wound with alcohol and potentially needing to go to the hospital for an antivenom. Maybe everybody else saw poisonous and thought bacteria, but I thought, y'know, poison.
#28 Crimson_Concerto Feb 05, 2009 18:23:08	Poisonous? You are kidding right? I mean seriously. Poisonous mammals number 5. One is the platypus, the other four are types of shrews, and one of them is only believed to be venomous. . . . I feel like pointing out that there's a difference between "poisonous" and "venomous." The Platypus, for example, is venomous. Also, what do you mean by "only venomous"?
#29 terronus Feb 05, 2009 18:38:21	. . . I feel like pointing out that there's a difference between "poisonous" and "venomous." I think when that difference becomes really important, I'm probably going to be screaming, "Holy moses, I'm dying!!" :P
#30 aluman Feb 05, 2009 19:41:33	. . . I feel like pointing out that there's a difference between "poisonous" and "venomous." The Platypus, for example, is venomous. Also, what do you mean by "only venomous"? Poisonous and venomous are almost analogous when discussing animals, and its Only Believed to be venomous, meaning they (biologists) aren't positive one way or another as there hasn't been a live capture of one, or a recently dead capture. If I say X has a poisonous bite/claw attack (as implied by Count) then X is venomous, its only when discussing chemical defenses that a real line is drawn.
#31 aluman Feb 05, 2009 19:46:46	Well, not everything has bacteria that excretes a chemical highly toxic to avians and rodents, and is enough to cause humans to rarely go into a severe allergic reaction requiring immediate emergency treatment. Actually a lot of mammals have various Pasteurella bacteria in their mouth, which can cause quite severe reactions in humans, and if its not the particular strain an avian has, it will most likely die. Its kinda like E. coli. its serves a vital function for its intended host, but outside of that host it can be dangerous.

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

ciaran

Feb 04, 2009 0:03:54

Most of you are familiar with the old joke about a Cat, straight from the Monster Manual - being able to single-handedly kill a family of elven commoners, and all the variants thus.

Well, a buddy of mine shared with me a story about his abusive - but estranged for years now - father. He was scratched by his cat and is now - thanks to meds lowering his immune system - in critical care in the hospitol.

I would have kept a straight face during his story but he was laughing the whole time.

aethelas

Feb 04, 2009 7:59:07

That is a fairly ridiculous story.

I actually am wondering...what's tha (+0 LA) in your sig mean?
That's not an abbreviation I'm familiar with....

batshido

Feb 04, 2009 8:03:58

I actually am wondering...what's tha (+0 LA) in your sig mean?
That's not an abbreviation I'm familiar with....

It's Level Adjustment. Some monsterous races in 3rd Edition had adjustments to their effective level if they were used as PCs. Standard goblins didn't, but there was at least one subspecies (Grays, I believe) that did.

Cpt_Micha

Feb 04, 2009 8:05:39

Actually IIRC goblins had Negative Level adjustments. Or am I thinking of Kobolds?

ADHadh

Feb 04, 2009 10:24:38

Actually IIRC goblins had Negative Level adjustments. Or am I thinking of Kobolds?

I don't think there were any negative LAs.
There were fractional CRs though.

Cpt_Micha

Feb 04, 2009 12:18:30

I seem to remember a Level -4 race.

ciaran

Feb 04, 2009 17:22:52

Yes, Goblins are - according to the rulebooks - as suitable a playerable race as human, elf or dwarf. I played one for some months. It was fun but they're nothing special.

terronus

Feb 04, 2009 18:21:01

Actually... don't cat bites often lead to infections? Kinda like the opposite of a dog? Or is that a myth?

bob_loblaw

Feb 04, 2009 18:22:13

I seem to remember a Level -4 race.

There was a template in Savage Species (Half-golem?) that provided a penalty to the LA.

#10

braveboudica

Feb 05, 2009 8:55:15

Actually... don't cat bites often lead to infections? Kinda like the opposite of a dog? Or is that a myth?

Actually, if you get bitten by a cat, it's just like any other wound. If you don't take care of it, it can get infected. If you take care of it, it's no worse than any other.

The important part of this question though it what you did to the cat to make it bite you in the first place. Cats use their claws way before they use their teeth, so if you're bitten, you've most likely waded through a lot of scratching first.

The only time a cat bite should be a concern is if it's carrying a disease like rabies. Cats and humans are so similar they can transfer colds and such back and forth, so if the cat's sick and it bites you, you may get whatever it has, but that's a no brainer.

Dogs mouths aren't any cleaner than a human's either. They've done tests on that and determined that the sorts of bacteria that live in a dog's mouth are different than those in a human's mouth, but they are still as dirty.

Share your ice cream with your dog at your own risk!!! *Cue cheesy horror music*

Dog bites are more serious simply because dogs have larger, stronger jaws than cats do, and as such, can bite deeper into your flesh and even into your muscles. A cat on the other hand, poses no such threat unless you are a small rodent.

A dog bite should be looked at by a professional due to most antiseptics not being for use in deep puncture wounds. They will be able to give you salves and such that will help you out.

#11

terronus

Feb 05, 2009 15:20:30

I did a bit of quick searching, and it seems that there is some sort of middle ground to what you and I first purposed:

VetInfo Digest

Cat bites account for about 10% of reported animal bites. Dog bites account for about 80 to 90% of reported bites and there are approximately 12 to 15 fatalities per year in the U.S. from dog bites, as well. Cat bites become infected between 30 and 60% of the time based on various reference sources . Dog bites become infected approximately 10 to 20% of the time. Even when infection does not occur the crushing injuries produced by bites can cause significant damage to tendons and joints. It is very important to have all penetrating dog and cat bite injuries examined by your physician and to have a recheck examination done whenever a bite involves a hand or is located in very close proximity to a joint or tendon. Any pain or loss of function still present 3 to 5 days after the initial wound should be reported to your physician.

source

#12

elondir

Feb 05, 2009 16:00:10

I still have a very small scar on my hand in between my thumb and index finger where a cat bit me a few years ago.

#13

count_arioch_the_28th

Feb 05, 2009 16:05:58

Also, keep in mind that cat saliva is mildly poisonous, so getting clawed or bit by a cat can hurt like hell. Also, cats carry a lot more bacteria in their claws, so they are more likely to become infected if not taken care of.

#14

dirtyfrank

Feb 05, 2009 16:11:48

I seem to remember a Level -4 race.

Kobolds have a -4 strength in 3e. Is that what you were thinking of?

#15

aluman

Feb 05, 2009 16:17:26

Also, keep in mind that cat saliva is mildly poisonous, so getting clawed or bit by a cat can hurt like hell. Also, cats carry a lot more bacteria in their claws, so they are more likely to become infected if not taken care of.

Poisonous? You are kidding right? I mean seriously. Poisonous mammals number 5. One is the platypus, the other four are types of shrews, and one of them is only believed to be venomous.

#16

m-bark

Feb 05, 2009 16:17:31

On point de LA: There was a batlike race with -2 LA. I only found it in one of the Crystalkeep files though, not in a book.

On point de Catbite: I've been kitten by a bat once right between the thumb and index finger when I was 8. It left two fine little marks there. Good thing the cat wasn't big and it wasn't my neck. That would have left some scars that would have raised some awkward questions.

#17

terronus

Feb 05, 2009 16:19:52

Poisonous? You are kidding right? I mean seriously. Poisonous mammals number 5. One is the platypus, the other four are types of shrews, and one of them is only believed to be venomous.

Somehow, the way you phrased that made me think of Mambo number 5. Now I'm going to be singing about poisonous mammals all day.

#18

count_arioch_the_28th

Feb 05, 2009 16:27:01

Yeah, that's why when cats play too long with small animals, they die. It's because they die from the toxicity of their saliva, and they cover their claws in the stuff too for added effect.

If cats weren't so cute, we'd hate the little bastards.

On topic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzgfGhqQ4KQ

#19

aluman

Feb 05, 2009 16:44:12

Yeah, that's why when cats play too long with small animals, they die. It's because they die from the toxicity of their saliva, and they cover their claws in the stuff too for added effect.

Yeah its not the fact that they are batting something about a third of their size around. Though I am little more sure you are joking about the toxicity issues.

If cats weren't so cute, we'd hate the little bastards.

I don't care for 'em anyway.

#20

aluman

Feb 05, 2009 16:44:43

Somehow, the way you phrased that made me think of Mambo number 5. Now I'm going to be singing about poisonous mammals all day.

:D I live to torment!

#21

lofgren

Feb 05, 2009 16:46:03

Yeah, that's why when cats play too long with small animals, they die. It's because they die from the toxicity of their saliva, and they cover their claws in the stuff too for added effect.

Yeah… no. Would you like to rephrase, or are you actually going to stick with this story?

#22

Crackerjake

Feb 05, 2009 16:46:10

Cats are evil.

Here's an example of their evilness:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmRTGRbrATs&feature=channel

Subwoofers annoy and bother us everyday, yet this cat is sitting RIGHT ON TOP OF IT, and acting as if NOTHING is going on. It's evil, man.

#23

count_arioch_the_28th

Feb 05, 2009 17:10:31

Yeah… no. Would you like to rephrase, or are you actually going to stick with this story?

Let me rephrase then.

There is a bacteria that live in Cat's mouths that produces a toxin that the cats themselves are immune to (unusual, as cat livers are nigh worthless). When they coat their claws with their saliva while cleaning, they transfer the toxin to their claws.

That's the more scientifically correct terminology, but the end effect is the same. Similar to smaller, less dangerous Komodo Dragons.

#24

lofgren

Feb 05, 2009 17:36:38

Komodo dragons do have actual venom.

But thank you. Everything has bacteria in its mouth. Venom is much more rare, especially in mammals. It's an important distinction.

#25

terronus

Feb 05, 2009 17:44:08

Not to nitpick, but the venom of a komodo dragon (at least to my understanding) is fairly mild compared to the bacteria which is normally toxic enough to kill.

And while all animals have bacteria in their mouths, the previous sources I cited estimated anywhere from 30-80% of cat bites become dangerously infected, while dog bites (for example) have an infection rate of 10-20%.

I only wish to distinguish its more important the type of bacteria transmitted rather than every animal carries bacteria.

#26

count_arioch_the_28th

Feb 05, 2009 17:50:49

But thank you. Everything has bacteria in its mouth. Venom is much more rare, especially in mammals. It's an important distinction.

Well, not everything has bacteria that excretes a chemical highly toxic to avians and rodents, and is enough to cause humans to rarely go into a severe allergic reaction requiring immediate emergency treatment.

#27

lofgren

Feb 05, 2009 17:53:28

Not to nitpick, but the venom of a komodo dragon (at least to my understanding) is fairly mild compared to the bacteria which is normally toxic enough to kill.

Very true, but they do have some venom that seems to be related to rattlesnake poison.

I still think saying a cat is "poisonous" is inaccurate enough that it bears correction. It's the difference between washing a wound with alcohol and potentially needing to go to the hospital for an antivenom. Maybe everybody else saw poisonous and thought bacteria, but I thought, y'know, poison.

#28

Crimson_Concerto

Feb 05, 2009 18:23:08

Poisonous? You are kidding right? I mean seriously. Poisonous mammals number 5. One is the platypus, the other four are types of shrews, and one of them is only believed to be venomous.

. . . I feel like pointing out that there's a difference between "poisonous" and "venomous." The Platypus, for example, is venomous. Also, what do you mean by "only venomous"?

#29

terronus

Feb 05, 2009 18:38:21

. . . I feel like pointing out that there's a difference between "poisonous" and "venomous."

I think when that difference becomes really important, I'm probably going to be screaming, "Holy moses, I'm dying!!" :P

#30

aluman

Feb 05, 2009 19:41:33

. . . I feel like pointing out that there's a difference between "poisonous" and "venomous." The Platypus, for example, is venomous. Also, what do you mean by "only venomous"?

Poisonous and venomous are almost analogous when discussing animals, and its Only Believed to be venomous, meaning they (biologists) aren't positive one way or another as there hasn't been a live capture of one, or a recently dead capture.

If I say X has a poisonous bite/claw attack (as implied by Count) then X is venomous, its only when discussing chemical defenses that a real line is drawn.

#31

aluman

Feb 05, 2009 19:46:46

Well, not everything has bacteria that excretes a chemical highly toxic to avians and rodents, and is enough to cause humans to rarely go into a severe allergic reaction requiring immediate emergency treatment.

Actually a lot of mammals have various Pasteurella bacteria in their mouth, which can cause quite severe reactions in humans, and if its not the particular strain an avian has, it will most likely die. Its kinda like E. coli. its serves a vital function for its intended host, but outside of that host it can be dangerous.