http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0oGkldejbFIcN0AMA5XNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTBzMDJuaDlzBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMTYEY29sbwNzazEEdnRpZAM-/SIG=11pv3ov91/EXP=1219682014/**http%3a//***************/articles/dnd.asp i am offended by who made this there i even a whole part on people who commit suicide who play d&d why do they even make this
There are extremists of every religious and political stripe, and Christians are no exception. Don't worry, most people will frown upon them and it won't affect how we view other Christians such as yourself. You're in good hands, here.
Rejoice in your freedoms and enjoy your D&D.
Thankfully the christians no longer have the political authority to execute those who disagree with their statements.
Rejoice in your freedoms and enjoy your D&D.
It's actually kind of interesting, most American want religion to stay out of politics, but feel like politicians should have strong religious beliefs nowadays.* Even among conservatives this view has become dominant.
*According to recent polling.
It's actually kind of interesting, most American want religion to stay out of politics, but feel like politicians should have strong religious beliefs nowadays.* Even among conservatives this view has become dominant.
Rather weird, no?
I don't understand it myself. Then again I've never been able to understand the modern more wishy-washy approaches to religion.
Old time religion, crusades, burning heretics and hellfire/brimstone I understand (but not share).
This, I believe in God but haven't read the bible, don't go to church and it plays a minor role in my life is just... incomprehensible to me.
It's actually kind of interesting, most American want religion to stay out of politics, but feel like politicians should have strong religious beliefs nowadays.* Even among conservatives this view has become dominant.
*According to recent polling.
I can kind of see where some of those people are coming from. I'm not a big fan of religion(for myself), so I'd rather see a compassionate atheist/agnostic in office but I imagine it will be a LONG time before that happens.
The sum of the seminar was that each of us has been taught moral values and we simply must apply them to roleplaying and be aware of when roleplaying is having a negative influence on ourselves or others around us. (They said it better).
Mark Charke
in a whole pomo ironic way, of course
In any philosophical movement, whether 'religious' or otherwise, there are fanatics and zealots (this goes for distinctly 'non-religious' groups too, of course - such as 'militant atheists' and wild supporters of particular political factions). Fortunately, many other people are quite sensible, and they realise that a difference exists between fantasy roleplaying (D&D) and reality.
'Nuff said, moving on.
I'm a Christian also (Orthodox).
In any philosophical movement, whether 'religious' or otherwise, there are fanatics and zealots (this goes for distinctly 'non-religious' groups too, of course - such as 'militant atheists' and wild supporters of particular political factions). Fortunately, many other people are quite sensible, and they realise that a difference exists between fantasy roleplaying (D&D) and reality.
Hey, that reminds me - is there an official position by the Orthodox church on roleplaying? I don't follow their position too closely.
Then, his journey to the lulz shall be complete! :evillaugh
One could say therefore that few Christians hate D&D; but they hate what they think is D&D and what they think is D&D comes from those who have only seen it with the intent of shreading it into pieces in the first place.
It is ironic that these same people who I shall not mention actually express more vile towards the Catholic Church than they do against D&D.
The best response comes from a different direction. As Bishop Sheen stated, "Not 100 people hate the Catholic Church; but there are many who hate what they think is the Catholic Church."
While I agree with the point of the statement, I think that Bishop Sheen is wrong. There are plenty of people who know exactly what Catholicism is all about, and hate it all the more. Same thing with Christians.
I would actually say that D&D is pretty well impossible to hate if you actually look at it. I mean, just look at it, so cute and fuzzy-- AH MY EYE!
As for the notorious comic tract by "Him", I am curious if anyone would be interested in purchasing as a curiosity item? The company that makes them does small print runs now. An ad can be added, perhaps for Christian Children's Fund (Gary's favorite charity.) This would make a good fundraiser.
I've even considered taking the tracts apart and laminating them as bookmarks (I need a lot of bookmarks myself)
I anyone interested in this? It would take capital to achieve. 10,000 copies cost $750 (that's 0.75 cents a copy). At $1 apiece, that would be a quite a profit margin.
Hey, that reminds me - is there an official position by the Orthodox church on roleplaying? I don't follow their position too closely.
The Orthodox do not have 'official positions' on minor issues; Orthodoxy operates differently than Roman Catholicism. It has no 'head priest' to call the shots, like the Roman Catholic Pope. Rather, the Orthodox church bases its positions on major issues on Biblical teaching and the equally-important Holy Tradition (what has been agreed upon before by the early Christians and church fathers). The following link may be helpful if you are interested in discovering the dramatic differences between Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism or Protestantism: http://www.goarch.org/en/ourfaith/articles/article7101.asp
In general, the Orthodox present a 'sensible' approach to such things as D&D. It's fantasy. As long as it is regarded as such, and a player does not become a slave to it (or any other possession, hobby, or habit, for that matter), then I am quite sure that most Orthodox clergy would view the game as just that -- a harmless game, not a guide on how to understand or live in reality. Part of the Orthodox Tradition is a desire to obtain 'all the facts' before making a decision on some issue; contrary to 'fire and brimstone preachers' who may attack something, such as D&D, without knowing what the game actually entails, the Orthodox tend to make decisions with careful, considered judgment. That trait is an important (and necessary) aspect of the faith.
I'm a Christian also (Orthodox).
Roman Catholic? Greek Orthodox? I am Roman Catholic and there is surprising few people who know the difference.
Roman Catholic? Greek Orthodox? I am Roman Catholic and there is surprising few people who know the difference.
That is true insofar as the West is concerned, especially in some parts of the United States, but I assume that is due to Roman Catholicism and Protestantism playing greater roles in the West. Both Roman Catholicism and Protestantism are more widely-known and understood than Orthodoxy in the West; which is, I am afraid, not saying very much considering some of the misunderstandings and misgivings a few people have towards sensible Christians of all traditions.
After the Great Schism, of course, Orthodoxy thrived primarily in the East. Some months before and for many years after Constantinople's fall to the Turks in 1453, many Orthodox Byzantines fled to the West. Their arrival did spur a rebirth of Orthodoxy in the Western world, which continues today, but still has a way to go to 'catch up' with other traditions there.
In general, the Orthodox present a 'sensible' approach to such things as D&D. It's fantasy. As long as it is regarded as such, and a player does not become a slave to it (or any other possession, hobby, or habit, for that matter), then I am quite sure that most Orthodox clergy would view the game as just that -- a harmless game, not a guide on how to understand or live in reality. Part of the Orthodox Tradition is a desire to obtain 'all the facts' before making a decision on some issue; contrary to 'fire and brimstone preachers' who may attack something, such as D&D, without knowing what the game actually entails, the Orthodox tend to make decisions with careful, considered judgment. That trait is an important (and necessary) aspect of the faith.
Hmm, moderation and education? And to think the people of the west have been taught that the Eastern Orthodox church are nothing but fundamentalist zealots.
Hmm, moderation and education? And to think the people of the west have been taught that the Eastern Orthodox church are nothing but fundamentalist zealots.
I've....never heard that.The full story is still in Astrid's Parlor (Funny girl gaming stories)
Anyhow, growing up I always played D&D and other RPGs...I actually came into the church through a nerdy youth minister who ran Gamma World and Star Frontiers...TSR "saved" my soul! Ha. However, I faced my critics, and actually read books titled something like, "The Evils of Dungeons & Dragons" or something like that...a paperback book written my fundamentalist Christians who actually had really poor logic in their thinking.
To them, D&D affected people in ways that players became VERY attached to their characters. They extremist often will cite the suicide one one particular player whose character died, and he wanted to join his character in the land of unicorns and fairies or whatever...and took his own life cause real life sucked compared. Players would become SO consumed in their gaming life that...well, they prefered it over real life...or so they claimed.
This is perhaps, their strongest argument (besides the devils and demon stuff).
I never agreed with them. For the players who went bonkers...seriously, given a cross-section of our culture, there are going to be people who suffer from mental illness...and just cause one happened to play D&D an commit suicide....blame it on the game not on his mental instability huh?
On a sociological level, back in the days, many of us gamers were major dorks and nerds...and seriously, life sucked for us in high school. We didn't get the girls. People didn't understand us. "Goth" didn't exist yet, or wasn't "cool", and being a gamer was like being gay...we'd hide it like it was the black plague.
But if they actually thought about it, in any "recreational" activity, people really got into it...from role-players, to current day video-gamers (especially Wow), to what, surfers, basketball players, to whatever...people often DEVOTE their lives and LIVE for the enjoyment of their "recreation". When people become SO addicted and consumed to their second lives...well, society dictates which ones are healthy or not. For the basketball kids and football players who practice 3-4 hours a day, have weekend games, etc. that is A LOT of damned time devoted to something "fun" that they are good at. Some of us are built a bit different...my heart condition prevented me from participating in a lot of sports...so I got into gaming...but gaming was never as well accepted as...sports. Later, I got into Speech (we didn't have debate), and Student Government, and was able to put my brain power to some better use. That stuff took up a lot of my time and life...it was fun, just like gaming, and no one mocked it.
Boo on the idiot (most likely Protestant) Christians who dogged on Dungeons and Dragons and its evils...people like that give the church a serious bad taste and name...and hence, one reason why I believe the church has failed me, and the countless millions who are turned off by it. And you know what, I thought that there weren't really many "deluded" Christians out there...ones that really believe that they are the best things for people out there...in the sense that if they spew forth out of context Bible verses and say really nice words people will magically become better people...or that the Pastor is ultimately appointed by God, and his word is God's word, and all must submit under his authority...and anyone who challenges it is spreading dissent and not unity and breaking the church apart....and that this will actually "work" on people who don't go to church, or hate church...some people are just idiots, like the guys who wrote that book I read.
Ah well, rant done.
Game on Christian Gamers, Game on!
Fox
I believe that one of the best Catholics has a story in my sig.
The creator smiled when he made Sister Maria, I think.
It's funny though, I've played this game with people from most of the spectrum of religious beliefs and learned more about the cultures and lifestyles of more of the people of the world than I could possibly relate. There's something about huddling around the table to cast the dice with people different from yourself that makes it seem like there's actually hope left for this sorry world.
My own personal favorite was an Al-Qadim game run by an Imam*, of all things. I learned more about Islam than I ever planned to from him. To be honest, he told us all from the beginning that he was going to use real places and real religions in the game and that if we couldn't handle it, that it was best we bowed out early on. He used the game as a way to teach us about the Beduoin world and Islam, and I think I'm better for it.
* He wasn't an Imam at the time, but that's another story.
Roman Catholic? Greek Orthodox? I am Roman Catholic and there is surprising few people who know the difference.
I think, at least in the United States, most people don't really know that the Orthodox (not just the Greek) even exist unless there is a large community of them right next door. I have the feeling that many simply divide Christianity into three cagories; Protestant, Papaist, and OH MY GOD YOU'RE NOT CHRISTIAN ARE YOU?
If you really want to confuse people, try talking to them about the various churches that left the Catholic Church in the past few centuries (but long after the Reformation) such as the "Old Catholic" Church.
And to think the people of the west have been taught that the Eastern Orthodox church are nothing but fundamentalist zealots.
I think in general most people don't know anything about the Eastern Orthodox Churches. They might hear things occasionally from the Russian Orthodox. They might hear things from some of the more fundamental Eastern Orthodox monistaries (since they do from time to time generate newsworthy arguments within the general Orthdox communities) but otherwise they are typically small communities out of sight and out of mind.
That is true insofar as the West is concerned, especially in some parts of the United States, but I assume that is due to Roman Catholicism and Protestantism playing greater roles in the West. Both Roman Catholicism and Protestantism are more widely-known and understood than Orthodoxy in the West; which is, I am afraid, not saying very much considering some of the misunderstandings and misgivings a few people have towards sensible Christians of all traditions.
After the Great Schism, of course, Orthodoxy thrived primarily in the East. Some months before and for many years after Constantinople's fall to the Turks in 1453, many Orthodox Byzantines fled to the West. Their arrival did spur a rebirth of Orthodoxy in the Western world, which continues today, but still has a way to go to 'catch up' with other traditions there.
You are obviously very knowledge and well read on the subject. Nice to see someone who is, finally. It is difficult to tell people I am Roman Catholic, at least in Seattle where I live. Most of the time, when I tell people I am Roman Catholic, they think I am some 'fire and brimstone' preacher that will 'cast them to hell' as soon as they 'don't do as I say'. So, in short, I tip my hat to you in thanks.
Most of the time, when I tell people I am Roman Catholic, they think I am some 'fire and brimstone' preacher that will 'cast them to hell' as soon as they 'don't do as I say'. So, in short, I tip my hat to you in thanks.
That's the Baptists. Although I don't understand why Roman Catholics feel they need a priest to intercede on their behalf with their god, but to each his own, eh?
Gotta love ignorance...most Christians do not even know they are secretly pagan...props to those who do look deeper though.
Gotta love ignorance...most Christians do not even know they are secretly pagan...props to those who do look deeper though.
I've never understood why it is that Christian groups tend to think that they shouldn't understand the religions of the people they'll someday interact with.
My life may be a bit on the odd side, but I've learned as much as I can about what others believe in so that I can at least have a bit of understanding where they're coming from when I speak to them. That commandment about having "no other god before me" doesn't prevent you from learning about the beliefs of other people, it prevents you from practicing their religion.
I don't understand why Roman Catholics feel they need a priest to intercede on their behalf with their god, but to each his own, eh?
It's a combination of John 20:22-23 and the idea that the church holds the keys. This page may help explain the Roman Catholic view of confession.
Before you make an assumption, the Roman Catholic church does not consider me to be a member.
It's a combination of John 20:22-23 and the idea that the church holds the keys.
I'm well versed on the whither tos and whyfors, I just don't understand them. It's a theological point I can't quite wrap my brain around. When I talk to my creator, I speak directly. I've never quite understood why others feel the need for an intermediary.
I've never understood why it is that Christian groups tend to think that they shouldn't understand the religions of the people they'll someday interact with.
My life may be a bit on the odd side, but I've learned as much as I can about what others believe in so that I can at least have a bit of understanding where they're coming from when I speak to them. That commandment about having "no other god before me" doesn't prevent you from learning about the beliefs of other people, it prevents you from practicing their religion.
It is really sad too cause a lot of things in the bible make a lot more sense when you look at the various roots on which Christianity is based. Christians have a history of persecuting religions from which they were based off of. In this day and age it is not as violent though.
I'm well versed on the whither tos and whyfors, I just don't understand them. It's a theological point I can't quite wrap my brain around. When I talk to my creator, I speak directly. I've never quite understood why others feel the need for an intermediary.
So true. I think it was this way so people could hold power over other people.
Back in the 80s Bible-thumpers were telling folk about the 'evils of D&D'. They said that it was 'the Devils game', an recruitment tool for devil worshipers, a guide book to witchcraft and demonology, a tool to brainwash kids into loosing their sense of reality, a violent game that promotes murder/****/suicide, and so on and so forth.
The most out spoken opponent of D&D was Patricia Pulling of B.A.D.D. (Bothered About D&D). Her son killed himself, and she blamed D&D. She crusaded against TSR, and even became an adviser to police departments handling cases authorities believed the D&D game may had some involvement. She was finally discredited by sci-fi author Michael A. Stackpole, then she died of cancer in the mid-90s, and her campaign died with her.
One of the big reasons for all that 'D&D = devil worship stuff', was likely do to the how the 1e demons and devils had the look and feel of the Divine Comedy (a book about Heaven and Hell) and the Lesser Keys of Solomon (a book about demons an devils). I see people avoid reading such parts of the old MM books, as a kid, I even avoided it. The new art cant inspire such fear - being too cartoony. Nowadays, its all about Harry Potter this and Harry Potter that! Everything you hear the thumpers say about 'the evils of Harry Potter', was once said about D&D.
The Orthodox do not have 'official positions' on minor issues; Orthodoxy operates differently than Roman Catholicism. It has no 'head priest' to call the shots, like the Roman Catholic Pope. Rather, the Orthodox church bases its positions on major issues on Biblical teaching and the equally-important Holy Tradition (what has been agreed upon before by the early Christians and church fathers). The following link may be helpful if you are interested in discovering the dramatic differences between Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism or Protestantism: http://www.goarch.org/en/ourfaith/articles/article7101.asp
There is no Pope, sure, but iirc each Patriarch (with the Holy Synod, I'm not quite sure how politics works out on that levels) can take decisions that would then apply for that particular church, and IIRC the Patriarch in Istanbul is accorded some respect as a senior, of sorts, but still he can only advise, not make binding decisions. Now, I have not heard that either any of the local Patriarchs nor the ecumenical one have said something about D&D, but I wanted to check.
I think D&D is th game most politically correct. My only complaint is the cult of Petrovna (Ravenloft) lord G'Henna Yagno because I consider it a reference to Catholic inquisition. I don´t like White Wolf because I found anti-Christian subtext in some books.
I reject the ocultism/esoterism but It isn´t anti-Christian a fantasy universe where even animals and plantas has "superpowers".
You don´t like people anti-RPGs. Do you? I don´t like anti-Catholic attacks either, but here in the media from my land the anti-Catholic equivalent to BADD and Mrs Pulling has a good public image.
where almost all of the adults are some form of christian there is a fear of D&D
among just about everybody except for a few of the other people i know its hard to mention D&D without some form of disapproval or fear. i simply dont understand. since i live with my parents who cant know im pagan i have to go to church every sunday or i get punished, grounding and loosing allowence are the predominant punishments. it sucks horribly though for some reason theyre fine with D&D.
:raincloud 
i have to go to church every sunday or i get punished, grounding and loosing allowence are the predominant punishments.
In other places the offense is being Christian and wanting go church every Sunday.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Patriotic_Catholic_Association
Please, talk to your fathers. The true Faith is confidendence, not imposition. It´s useless if you are outwardly Christian but a atheist or agnostic in your heart. The true duty of parents is teaching sons responsibility, sacrificie and honesty. The true education is defeating the sin, nor hiding it.
---------
I´m sorry if I have been a bit off-topic. I mean the prejudices againts Christian people are so bad as againts RPGs players. If you want be respected by Christians too you must respect them (us).
I understand you because I have suffered intolerance but hating Christians isn´t the good solution. You should showing fantasy and sci-fi hasn´t to be anti-Christians. The creators or Dragonlance novels (Margaret Weis nd Tracy Hickman) are religious persons, and Gary Gygax was believer too. The correct solution is inform role playing games can be better option that videogames or TV.
Still... I save lunch money, went to the bookstore next to my school and bought all three core books for 1st edition. Eventually, they found them hidden under the mattress (hey, I was a kid... how was I supposed to know they always look there first!). They burned them and we all had a family prayer meeting because having evil paraphernalia in the house was supposedly a conduit for demons to enter the physical world.
Anyway, here I am, playing 4th edition... and athiest (either because my views align with science... or because D&D corrupted my soul. You decide)
Did they sacrifice a chicken when the buried the book?
...um... well yah... but here's the upsetting thing, this ritual had a DC of 35, and my parents, not knowing about D&D would make them a level 1, but because they assisted each other... the ritual worked. My books are burnt, my dreams shattered... all that AND Orcus never came to haunt our happy little home.
Oh well... what's a guy to do?
Well, the missionary stuff and not celebrating holidays are what I associate with JWs anyway. So is there nothing on D&D whatsoever in your religious teachings, Rizen_Isstaria?"
I'm sure that the Elders would disargee with it. They'd point to verses like Eph. 5:10,11 and 2 Cor. 6: 14-18 ... : therefore get out from amoung them, and separate yoursevles... No matter how much of the bible you read, your opinion will always play a part. They can't expect us not to witness violence, theres alot of violence in the bible and they even joke about going home and playing the playstation. In a nut shell I guess you could say that I tring to play "pg13".
=( Sadly I live in a small town dominated by Baptist...
Gotta love ignorance...most Christians do not even know they are secretly pagan...props to those who do look deeper though.
I'd say that most celebrate pagan holidays, a good example being Easter. Orginally a spring festival dedicated to "Ishtar" goddess of fertililty. The rabbit is a pagan symbol and has always been an emblem of fertility. Early Christians converted it to what it is now to help convert people to Christianity. Thats why rabbits are still a symbol in the holiday.
You also have all the kooky links between early christianity and mithraism
Easter comes from the same root-word as Estrogen (the goddess Estoar, if you are interested)
You also have all the kooky links between early christianity and mithraism
Are you sure it's not from Eoster? It's an Ostaran holiday. You've got the fertility bit dead on, though. That's the one thing we know for certain, even though the other bits are questionable*.
* By questionable, I mean that we can't say with 100% certainty where it came from because there's enough similarity to so many religious beliefs that we can't determine exactly which religion the holiday came from.
On the other hand, if Christianity had kept all the regulations of its earliest years, it might have never made it beyond a reformist sect of Judaism
* By questionable, I mean that we can't say with 100% certainty where it came from because there's enough similarity to so many religious beliefs that we can't determine exactly which religion the holiday came from.
Well it is Chaldean (you can wikiapedia Chaldean) origin, which is Greek and Babylonian.
Well, Christianity as it expanded picked up and "repackaged" quite a few prior holidays. I suppose it was a part of the spread of christianity, in order to make it more accessible to the masses. People believed in pagan spirits such as elves, villas and others practically a millenium after they were christianized.
On the other hand, if Christianity had kept all the regulations of its earliest years, it might have never made it beyond a reformist sect of Judaism
As a Christian and at least now a days, I think that they shouldn't celebrated holidays that have pagan origin.
As a Christian and at least now a days, I think that they shouldn't celebrated holidays that have pagan origin.
So Christmas is out. Easter is out. Thanksgiving is out. Halloween is out. Hmm, sounds like the bulk of them are out, doesn't it?
So Christmas is out. Easter is out. Thanksgiving is out. Halloween is out. Hmm, sounds like the bulk of them are out, doesn't it?
Hahaha, I think that Thanksgiving is okay- I think. Of course it's the most boring holiday ever ! Halloween was extremely hard for me to give up, everything else was easy.
Meh, quite honestly, we need days to kick back. Whether Christmas is celebrated on the 6th of January or 25th of December doesn't really make much of a difference - iirc the date of Jesus' birth was never quite determined.
I agree and I do. I chose a random day that works well with everyone, a day to simply enjoy everyones company. I made a Thanksgiving like party once, but I made it medieval, D&D like with turkey legs, dark ale and mead (No one tried to get drunk). I didn't do it for a holiday, but for my friends.
Hahaha, I think that Thanksgiving is okay- I think. Of course it's the most boring holiday ever ! Halloween was extremely hard for me to give up, everything else was easy.
Excuse me? Thanksgiving is not a Christian holiday, that one was Native American. You can't celebrate that one either if you're giving up the non-christian origin holidays.
Excuse me? Thanksgiving is not a Christian holiday, that one was Native American. You can't celebrate that one either if you're giving up the non-christian origin holidays.
I thought it was an actual US holiday? You know, started by the Pilgrims and all? Or is this another "roots beyond basic history" kind of thing?
Excuse me? Thanksgiving is not a Christian holiday, that one was Native American. You can't celebrate that one either if you're giving up the non-christian origin holidays.
Indeed, I myself don't celebrate any holiday "I chose a random day that works well with everyone ^". My reasoning Mark 7:13 "and thus you make the word of God invalid by your tradition which you handed down. And many things similar to this you do."
Okay back to the thread, I think that a christian saying that D&D is bad, obviously knows very little about the game. That goes for ANYONE saying that it's bad. Heres a link about christians playing D&D http://www.fansforchrist.org/new/articles/article03.htm. I like the part " It seems that if some of the critics actually read the books, they would see there is no way to actually perform any “real magic” from them. Otherwise, wouldn’t we have hordes of teenagers out there purchasing these books and hurling fireballs and magic missiles at each other?"
Otherwise, wouldn’t we have hordes of teenagers out there purchasing these books and hurling fireballs and magic missiles at each other?"
Oh man, that would be SO awesome.
Here is what I think...! I am about as righteous and priestly in my interpretation of the bible as anyone else alive period. Including bishops, the pope, you name it. The idea of people walking around, changing the bible itself to fit their needs and views in direct opposition to its scripture is absolute lunacy. Then to top it all off, these hierarchies protect each other and their publicly known and probably endless private sins. Then they wonder why it can be so hard for them to reach young people today.
I will follow the good book the best I can, but if I have to listen to a hypocrite on a soapbox to do it, then I just can't accept that this is what Christianity is about.
Anyway, D&D is social entertainment, nothing more. Religious extremists have attacked every form of entertainment imaginable since the beginning of creation
. They will down-play everything you actually enjoy in life other than "the creator" as a sinful distraction placed in your path by The Desolate One.They would have you believe that you should trust these theories, when even their own Priests are committing some of the worst sins imaginable and getting caught doing it. I believe that everyone will find their place in faith when the time comes, but I don't believe half those degenerates will lead you down the right path. Find it on your own if necessary, its probably the right choice.
Indeed, I myself don't celebrate any holiday "I chose a random day that works well with everyone ^". My reasoning Mark 7:13 "and thus you make the word of God invalid by your tradition which you handed down. And many things similar to this you do."
I am very happy to hear I am not the only one who still understands this thinking. I am trying my best to help make everyone in my family understand these words, but they just keep pressing that I am selfish because I don't want to celebrate everyone Else's pagan and economic booster holidays.
I am very happy to hear I am not the only one who still understands this thinking. I am trying my best to help make everyone in my family understand these words, but they just keep pressing that I am selfish because I don't want to celebrate everyone Else's pagan and economic booster holidays.
I have the same problems my family, but their irregular chirstians and I'm a JW. I argee with you that D&D is just social entertainment, thats why I find no problem playing it. Although I'll keep out things like sex and fornacation,
we're all adults, we see enough of that stuff in the outside world anyway.
As for bibles, I wouldn't say that few are wrong. I'd say that some are less accurate though. When translating a bible, its best to use the oldest copies. The older the bible (or books of the bible), the closer it is to the orginal. The NWT used the oldest copies of the bible, such as the Dead Sea Scrolls. It is the only Christian bible that brought God's name back. Its a fact the God has a name, ask any faithful Jew and it was the Jews that took out God's name in the beginning.
As a Christian and at least now a days, I think that they shouldn't celebrated holidays that have pagan origin.
If you separate paganistic beliefs from christianity there would be almost nothing left. Christianity, like its predecessor were built upon beliefs that came before...
Meh, quite honestly, we need days to kick back. Whether Christmas is celebrated on the 6th of January or 25th of December doesn't really make much of a difference - iirc the date of Jesus' birth was never quite determined.
Where do you get January from? Most texts have reference to him being born in the spring. Are you mistaking the 8th of the Calends of January for being in January?
(Probably wrong on this) but wasn't God's name removed because they thought anyone who knew God's True Name could, like.. do really bad stuff?
..I mean, am I wrong, or wasn't Tome of Magic's truenaming not all that good? :D
When I saw "6th of January" I instantly thought of the "Twelve Days of Christmas."
(Probably wrong on this) but wasn't God's name removed because they thought anyone who knew God's True Name could, like.. do really bad stuff?
..I mean, am I wrong, or wasn't Tome of Magic's truenaming not all that good? :D
More accurately, Jewish scribes would not write the full name of God, instead writing "YHWH" (I can't recall if typical Jewish writing left out other vowels). When writing this, they would stop, ceremonially wash their hands, get a totally different pen, write the name, and put that pen down.
This was done, not out of fear, but reverance. The belief that the true name of God was so Holy, it shouldn't be fully written by human hands.
Incidentally, the closest English translation of the meaning of the true name of God is thought to be "I AM THAT I AM", or a close equivalent.
More accurately, Jewish scribes would not write the full name of God, instead writing "YHWH" (I can't recall if typical Jewish writing left out other vowels). When writing this, they would stop, ceremonially wash their hands, get a totally different pen, write the name, and put that pen down.
This was done, not out of fear, but reverance. The belief that the true name of God was so Holy, it shouldn't be fully written by human hands.
Incidentally, the closest English translation of the meaning of the true name of God is thought to be "I AM THAT I AM", or a close equivalent.
YHWH means "He Causes to Become". It wasn't just God's name, but all the ancient scriptures were writen without vowels. There were several reasons why ancients jews took out God's name. One reason was out of fear of taking it in vain, also they believe it too holy like you said, and the last reason was to hide it from pagans, so that they wouldn't abused it.
Just like Jesus, God has a name and title. In Hebrew it's Yahweh and Jehovah in english.
YHWH means "He Causes to Become". It wasn't just God's name, but all the ancient scriptures were writen without vowels. There were several reasons why ancients jews took out God's name. One reason was out of fear of taking it in vain, also they believe it too holy like you said, and the last reason was to hide it from pagans, so that they wouldn't abused it.
Just like Jesus, God has a name and title. In Hebrew it's Yahweh and Jehovah in english.
*waggles hand* "He Causes to Become"...hm, haven't heard that before, but it seems similar to "I Am That I Am". You're right on the vowel thing. I don't think they always took it out; they just used it rarely. They'd replace it with other versions (hence why some Bibles have Lord, LORD, and God).
I feel like being a contrary nitpicker (just for fun, though), so I'd point out that Yahweh is our best estimation. But anyways...
*waggles hand* "He Causes to Become"...hm, haven't heard that before, but it seems similar to "I Am That I Am". You're right on the vowel thing. I don't think they always took it out; they just used it rarely. They'd replace it with other versions (hence why some Bibles have Lord, LORD, and God).
I feel like being a contrary nitpicker (just for fun, though), so I'd point out that Yahweh is our best estimation. But anyways...
Well Jesus's name is pronounced differently in Hebrew too. I don't think that they always took out God's name either, or God's name wouldn't appear in other commonly used bibles. This is why I say He Causes to Become; http://www.watchtower.org/e/20040122/diagram_01.htm .
Define Pagan
Are you on the same internet as me ? Define Wikipedia, heres a link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pagan .
YHWH means "He Causes to Become". It wasn't just God's name, but all the ancient scriptures were writen without vowels. There were several reasons why ancients jews took out God's name. One reason was out of fear of taking it in vain, also they believe it too holy like you said, and the last reason was to hide it from pagans, so that they wouldn't abused it.
So the Native American Animist belief that Grandfather* is simply "He that created us" may be closer to Christian than the Christians would like to admit, eh?
*Not my grandfather, he doesn't get the capital G. Grandfather is the grandfather of all, the one who has created us.
So the Native American Animist belief that Grandfather* is simply "He that created us" may be closer to Christian than the Christians would like to admit, eh?
*Not my grandfather, he doesn't get the capital G. Grandfather is the grandfather of all, the one who has created us.
The word ha·wah´ means become in Hebrew, meaning that it came from Hebrew.
Thanks!