| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
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| #1DralenanMay 08, 2009 13:32:08 | Many years ago, when playing a game of chess with my brother, who is also a D&D gamer, I had the idea to introduce combat into a game of chess. We used an NPC gen, and played a game of chess, with one variation...all of the pieces had D&D stat blocks, and instead of capturing, pieces would engage in combat. It changed the whole dynamic of the game, because the old strategies just didn't work. We only played one full game, though, but we still talk about it. So the other day, we were having lunch, and I brought it up, and we sat down and actually formalized the rules. All that is left is making up the stats for the pieces (we lost those old stats long ago). Then we're going to do a few test games, then I plan to post the rules and the stats on my site. The version we're working on is 3.5-based, because it was has smoother basic combat system, and we feel the powers-based system would be overwhelming when playing six simultaneous characters. All original chess rules are observed, with the exception of capturing. Instead of simply removing the opponent's piece, you now engage in a battle. If you win, the game proceeds like chess. If you lose, your piece dies. Once the 3.5 edition is up and running, I might update it for 4th edition. We are looking at two versions...the standard D&D chess is 3.5 based, and only uses material from the Player's Handbook, no other sources allowed. It follows all chess rules, and has a level range of 1-10. An advanced (and more chaotic) version raises the level cap and level disparity, allows for long-term damage to character, the use of assisting and healing spells, and possibly resurrection. We're not going to focus on this for awhile, though. Of course, any rules we come up with are guidelines, players can play the game how they want, particularly when it comes to the stat blocks... |
| #2jhonesyMay 08, 2009 13:38:14 | You know, that's pretty creative. All me and my group ever did was craft some wooden game pieces (my cousin is a carpenter), and made miniatures to resemble specific pieces. We even got so into it that we created a whole Goblin Chess (only goblin, goblin ilk & common goblin allies for pieces), a Dragon Chess set (Metallics vs Chromatics) and an NPC Chess set (farmers, miners, shop keeps, guards, ect). Your idea sounds so much cooler... |
| #31_ton_ghostMay 08, 2009 14:24:47 | During it's last year of printed publication, Dragon magazine did just that. I have the issue, can't recall which, but it's between 9-'06 and 5-'07 (my subscription period) for what it's worth. Very cool. IIRC; all pieces are constructs, rooks/knights have a special "move" per their board moves, etc. etc. Pretty compelling. Impressed you took it and ran w/ it this far. Respect. What you've described reminds me of an old 80's PC game, "Archon". Basically, chess, but you fight piece 'x' for square 'y', you don't just take it. A banshee (dark, rook piece) puts out an aura (scream) attack, the light side equivalent is a phoenix (fire, same radius effect) and so on and so forth. Or "Battlechess". God, I love that game. Normal chess, but the pieces animate, talk, attack, etc. Rook takes Queen is best; castle becomes anthropomorphic (think, "The Thing") and scoops up the queen and eats her. A pawn taking a knight; little guy hits knight in full plate w/ 1/4 staff in nuts. Jhonesy You know, that's pretty creative. All me and my group ever did was craft some wooden game pieces... I made a set for and independent study in Sculpture. Omg, you think it's gonna' be easy until you realize, "I gotta' make each individual piece and try and keep them exact per unit, light and dark?!" Hence the molds, and I thought, "How clever, I'll make all the dark pawns skeletons." Err, wrong. Thin and bony w/ many voids doesn't take to clay/slip well... The rooks were handcarved though. Thank God for dremmels. |
| #4DralenanMay 08, 2009 14:42:58 | I never heard of any of that except battle chess, that was great. I loved watching the different possible fights. I had no idea Dragon mag already did something similar to this...I never read it until they started putting it online. |
| #5toastedamphibianMay 08, 2009 15:11:36 | Won't that make pawns rather useless? And, I'm hoping the kings are stated as Aristocrats or something, otherwise taking them will be a pain. Regular "Check-Mate" rules dont seem like they would really work very well. |
| #6jhonesyMay 08, 2009 17:06:17 | Reminds me of Mortal Kombat Khess. Game pieces move around the board, fight opposing pieces when you can "take" them, you fight using the powers and abilities of your piece (on a specific character), win you take the space, loose and your piece is removed. Also, our group tried plastic molds, but found small wooden figures easier to craft. We paid my cousin a few hundred for all the fine details and we have a nice set. Too bad I don't have any pics, we gave the set to an old friend who moved to the other side o' the world. We wanted him to have something to remember the good times with. I'll see if I can e-mail him for some pics of the set and pieces. ![]() |
| #7toastedamphibianMay 08, 2009 17:39:11 | Seeing as your about as likley to lose any time you take a peice as you are to win, dosn't it make strategy laregely redundant? |
| #8jhonesyMay 08, 2009 18:12:47 | Yeah, that's the joy of it. :P |
| #9toastedamphibianMay 08, 2009 18:22:37 | .... So why even frame it as chess? |
| #10jhonesyMay 08, 2009 19:39:26 | Why would you want to frame it to begin with? Does it look good mounted on the wall or something? |
| #11toastedamphibianMay 08, 2009 20:13:56 | Dosn't everything? |
| #12jhonesyMay 08, 2009 20:17:25 | Well, I find mounting my winning completion time of beating CT in under ten minutes draws a lot of grumpy frowns and scowls, so I'm thinking it may be time to take it down. Or enlarge it. Either way. But now that I know it's jive to frame chess, I'm totally going to do it, be the first one to start a new craze! :D |
| #13toastedamphibianMay 08, 2009 20:20:01 | I'm not sure what CT is, but if you do decide to frame chess, make sure to nail from the bottom. You can try hotglue but it might not stay very well. Try putting the board in a shadowbox once you have all the peices secure, and put it at a slight angle. It will make the peices more "3D" looking, because youll get a slight view of the sides instead of just seeing the "tops".![]() |
| #14jhonesyMay 08, 2009 20:21:45 | CT = Chrono Trigger :D Also, I was thinking of just using the handymans secret tool; duct tape. If that doesn't work, nothing will. |
| #15toastedamphibianMay 08, 2009 20:25:27 | The ducttape will obscure the peices though. |
| #16toastedamphibianMay 08, 2009 20:27:13 | Better Idea: Get a bunch of Huge+ sized mini-s and cover a wall in alternating black and grey felt squares. Cover the bottom of the minis with velcro. |
| #17jhonesyMay 08, 2009 20:27:48 | I like to think of it as modern art means classic game, meets my wall. :D Ala Chess du Duct. |
| #18toastedamphibianMay 08, 2009 20:30:32 | Alright. Just rember, Ducttape really needs to wrap around back onto itself for the best possible adhesion. So, to be fair, make sure you cut wholes in your wall so that you can wrap the ducttap arround your stud. (Kinky) |
| #19jhonesyMay 08, 2009 20:30:34 | You know, Velcro+Ducttape equals a whole realm of win? I think I'll have to give it a try now! Ooooh, do I have plans now. When I get around to them. Later. Tonight. Tomorrow. Day after next. Next week... Well, sometime anyway. |
| #20DralenanMay 09, 2009 6:53:31 | Well, that's a lot to reply to...yes, it changes the dynamic of the game completely. Chess is, from one angle, a game of blocking and controlling. It goes on the assumption that in battle, the attacker always wins, and the strategy of the game, as it's known, is based on how you can defend and avenge pieces. By putting a combat system in, it throws that whole concept out the window. Now, pawns are useless for defending major pieces. That said, pawns themselves are not useless, but they have to be cared for. In traditional chess, an army of pawns lock of the board, making mobility difficult. That's still the case, because movement rules don't change. So strategically, pawns are very important. You cannot afford to be as aggressive with them, though. As for the king being an "aristocrat", I don't quite get your meaning. The king in chess is, to many players, a useless piece. And in discussing this concept, a few things about king-strategy came out. Something to consider is that my brother and I both use our kings offensively, which is rare in chess. The rules on protection of the king, found in normal chess make this a little difficult, and requires some creative thinking. So I do regret that in this form of chess, there can be no king on king action, it's just not in the rules. Again, basic chess rules are enforced, so checkmate is still a checkmate. However you want to look at it, the kings just aren't meant for battle, despite having the highest level. They will not willingly put themselves in danger, even in D&D chess. As for strategy being "redundant", again I don't quite follow. There is now a hesitation in capturing, you have to know what you're taking. For example, if you play the Civilization games, you will find that different pieces can engage in combat with opponents. They have different strengths, different numbers, but the outcome is random. When you fight in Civilization, you have to have a good idea how strong your unit is, against the opponent, or combat is a crapshoot. And there's always a change you will lose the fight anyway. It doesn't remove strategy to have a chance for the unit to lose, it simply changes the approach. Likewise, in Civ games, movement rules are enforced, regardless of unit power and rank. A modern unit (like a Marine) will not be able to move between "threatened" spaces, even if the threat comes from a tribal warrior. This form of chess follows that same principle. And again on the topic of kings...even in real chess, you can't take a king. In this version of chess, there is a slim possibility that you can defensively kill a king (especially with a queen), but in real chess, you can't possibly capture a king. So "taking" the king isn't an issue, defending against the king is. Which is in line with traditional chess, because if a king attacks you in real chess, you're dead, no matter what. The only difference now is you get a fighting chance this time. |
| #21toastedamphibianMay 09, 2009 7:13:01 | Aristocrat, as in the class. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/npcClasses/aristocrat.htm I don't understand why the king should be the highest level peice, he is essentially a non-combatant. :} |
| #22DralenanMay 09, 2009 7:27:05 | Sorry, I'm kind of tired...I had considered it, using an NPC class. I've pretty much committed to using the Player's Handbook as the only source. So we're thinking Bard, as they aren't particularly good at one-on-one combat, but rather working with a party. Since the king will be never be outside one-on-one, it will be an interesting situation. But we're still working on the idea. The nice thing about this, is that the characters we come up with are just suggestions. There's no reason someone can't switch out a character that doesn't work. If you think a king should be an aristocrat, or an Expert, or a level 40 epic sorcerer, go right ahead! As for the "non-combatant" idea, I said earlier, I play aggressively with my king. Not to mention that making a king who is prone to losing makes the game much too risky. In real chess, the king always wins a battle. The king is the only piece that cannot lose, ever. So I think that should be reflected. |
| #23toastedamphibianMay 09, 2009 19:37:16 | It's not that he can't lose, its that he runs away or surrenders.... |
| #24turalisjMay 09, 2009 22:46:30 | Err, wrong. Thin and bony w/ many voids doesn't take to clay/slip well... Yea, I tried that in my ceramics class. Didn't work too well. Hmmm... This does sound interesting though. Perhaps everytime a unit enters a square, they go to a different dimension for that battle so that they can't affect the board on a whole. This all makes me think about Code Geass though, with Lelouch's battle tactics. |