Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 lokiare Jun 29, 2011 14:35:59	peswiki.com/index.php/OS:Caggiano%27s_Fu... What do you think? does it work or is it another 'scam'?
#2 mudbunny Jun 29, 2011 15:13:45	Without looking deeper into it...I don't know. When you heat things to high temperatures and pressures, weird, weird things happen. He also has stuff that may or may not have an impact on what is going on, like the magnets. For those to have an effect, you would need to heat it high enough and at a high enough pressure for it to be no longer a gas or liquid, but plasma. It *is* entirely possible that the device works by transforming the gas, through a combination of pressure and temperature into something else that is more active and combusts differently. However, is teh rest of an internal combustion engine built to handle those conditions? Is the catalytic converter and the rest of the exhaust system set up to recover the by-products? How toxic are the by-products?
#3 Cpt_Micha Jun 29, 2011 15:42:06	The problem with his claim on the 72 pontiac is those things weren't even port injected. Meaning the intake manifold is Wet from fuel (which dramatically robs power from the engine, as well as ruins a precise fuel to air mixture ratio, which is one of the most critical steps in having a fuel efficient engine, as well as one of the single biggest hurdles in emissions, due to having an engine that might as well be running as if you were just dumping fuel all over the place down the manifold. Cylinders burn unevenly which then causes different amounts of fuel to exit the exhaust pipe, slip past piston seals etc etc. This is why Carbeurators were shot in the face and thrown into junkyards worldwide on cars save for a few underdeveloped countries and neanderthal gear heads that swear "CARBS R BETTERRR", and why Throttle Body Injection joined it shortly after. The other bane, of an engine is Heat. Air is not as dense the warmer it is. A 900 degree gasoline (and really that would be one hell of a cooling coil condenser which would require -a **** ton- of energy to adeuquately cool the fuel back down) would ruin the intake temperature charge coming in, in such a primitive fuel induction system as a carb, or TBI setup. The engine would lose -a ton- of power as well as fuel efficiency, as the car attempts to retard the timing signficantly to keep from Detonating and throwing it's innards all over the inside of the hood in a miraculous conflaguration of iron destruction. Also, a 72 Pontiac tempest, has really crappy cast pistons. Which is a mix for disaster, once you start adding super combustive fuel to the mix. You'd have to also consider the possiblity that the sheer compression from the pistons alone -without- the spark of a spark plug might just be enough to ignite the super heated fuel coming in, meaning you'd have to toss them out as well as seal the holes with something mroe akin to diesel glow plugs. (something I notice is missing on the shopping list here) This is basically how a diesel engine operates, without the super heated fuel part (because diesel engines make a truly staggering amount of compression, that basically causes the diesel to explode on it's own). Now, GM and I think Honda specifically -ARE- researching a gasoline based engine that basically runs like a diesel, however they are Direct Injected engines (because you can't build up the fuel pressure with the precision required otherwise with gasoline) they are doing this to save on weight (because diesel engines are heavy. which is why VW and BMW have such small diesels. Now this could work, or a similar principle can work on a Port Injected, or even better on a Direct Injected engine. The reason for this is simple, with Port Injection fuel is delivered to a bank of cylinders in batches that fire together, rather than being just dumped whole sale into the engine. The inake manifold is also dry right up to the Injector Bosses where they squirt fuel in, allowing for very precise air to fuel mixture control, which is great for making Horse Power, Fuel Economy, and beating emissions standards. 99 percent of all vehicles driven in the Western world run on Port Injection.  Sequential Fuel Injection, one ups the precision, by delivering the fuel to which ever cylinder specifically is coming up in the firing order. Direct Injection, is just what it sounds like, it is shooting fuel directly into the combustion chamber rather than the intake manifold at any stage, allowing for not only a totally dry manifold, but also at a much higher fuel pressure, allowing for much higher compression ratios to be achieved, on a given grade of octane. (which is an additive, that makes the fuel more resistant to burning, which prevents Detonation in higher performance engines)  Even here though I don't know if superheating the fuel would be a good idea, since the whole idea behind keeping an engine alive is to prevent it from getting too hot to explode the fuel prematurely.
#4 Cpt_Micha Jun 29, 2011 15:44:45	The problem with his claim on the 72 pontiac is those things weren't even port injected. Meaning the intake manifold is Wet from fuel (which dramatically robs power from the engine, as well as ruins a precise fuel to air mixture ratio, which is one of the most critical steps in having a fuel efficient engine, as well as one of the single biggest hurdles in emissions, due to having an engine that might as well be running as if you were just dumping fuel all over the place down the manifold. Cylinders burn unevenly which then causes different amounts of fuel to exit the exhaust pipe, slip past piston seals etc etc. This is why Carbeurators were shot in the face and thrown into junkyards worldwide on cars save for a few underdeveloped countries and neanderthal gear heads that swear "CARBS R BETTERRR", and why Throttle Body Injection joined it shortly after.  Put simply, the reason Engines sucked so hardcore in the 70s and 80s was because of carbs and TBI. Fuel would get past the piston seals etc and this would ruin the performance of the oil which would then destroy the engine over time. The reason imports initially got such a good reputation was a higher percentage of their vehicles were Port Injected, which made their engines more durable. Domestic engines that were Port Injected, also enjoyed a serious boost in durability. The other bane, of an engine is Heat. Air is not as dense the warmer it is. A 900 degree gasoline (and really that would be one hell of a cooling coil condenser which would require -a **** ton- of energy to adeuquately cool the fuel back down) would ruin the intake temperature charge coming in, in such a primitive fuel induction system as a carb, or TBI setup. The engine would lose -a ton- of power as well as fuel efficiency, as the car attempts to retard the timing signficantly to keep from Detonating and throwing it's innards all over the inside of the hood in a miraculous conflaguration of iron destruction. Also, a 72 Pontiac tempest, has really crappy cast pistons. Which is a mix for disaster, once you start adding super combustive fuel to the mix. You'd have to also consider the possiblity that the sheer compression from the pistons alone -without- the spark of a spark plug might just be enough to ignite the super heated fuel coming in, meaning you'd have to toss them out as well as seal the holes with something mroe akin to diesel glow plugs. (something I notice is missing on the shopping list here) This is basically how a diesel engine operates, without the super heated fuel part (because diesel engines make a truly staggering amount of compression, that basically causes the diesel to explode on it's own). Now, GM and I think Honda specifically -ARE- researching a gasoline based engine that basically runs like a diesel, however they are Direct Injected engines (because you can't build up the fuel pressure with the precision required otherwise with gasoline) they are doing this to save on weight (because diesel engines are heavy. which is why VW and BMW have such small diesels. Now this could work, or a similar principle can work on a Port Injected, or even better on a Direct Injected engine. The reason for this is simple, with Port Injection fuel is delivered to a bank of cylinders in batches that fire together, rather than being just dumped whole sale into the engine. The inake manifold is also dry right up to the Injector Bosses where they squirt fuel in, allowing for very precise air to fuel mixture control, which is great for making Horse Power, Fuel Economy, and beating emissions standards. 99 percent of all vehicles driven in the Western world run on Port Injection.  Sequential Fuel Injection, one ups the precision, by delivering the fuel to which ever cylinder specifically is coming up in the firing order. Direct Injection, is just what it sounds like, it is shooting fuel directly into the combustion chamber rather than the intake manifold at any stage, allowing for not only a totally dry manifold, but also at a much higher fuel pressure, allowing for much higher compression ratios to be achieved, on a given grade of octane. (which is an additive, that makes the fuel more resistant to burning, which prevents Detonation in higher performance engines)  Even here though I don't know if superheating the fuel would be a good idea, since the whole idea behind keeping an engine alive is to prevent it from getting too hot to explode the fuel prematurely.
#5 Escef Jun 29, 2011 15:48:00	Heats it to 900 Farenheight, then cools it? Inside the vehicle? Wow. No, really, wow. If the device actually does that it is incredibly dangerous. Gasoline will spontaneously combust at around 500 degrees. Almost anything goes wrong and you've just set your car on fire. As for changing the molecular structure of the fuel, that is what refining operations do when they improve the octane of the fuel. Fun fact: Octane is a measure of the fuel's resistance to combustion; the higher the rating, the less combustable it is. High octane fuel (in an engine that is tweaked to handle it properly) resists compbustion until the cyclinder in the engine reaches maximum compression, thus generating a stronger downforce when the fuel-air mixture ignites. The result is a cleaner burn and more power. The problem is that you also have an engine that requires more expensive fuel (high performance engines are infamous for not working well with low octane fuels). Whatever increase you get in MPG is usually offset by the higher priced fuel.
#6 Cpt_Micha Jun 29, 2011 15:57:50	Heats it to 900 Farenheight, then cools it? Inside the vehicle? Wow. No, really, wow. If the device actually does that it is incredibly dangerous. Gasoline will spontaneously combust at around 500 degrees. Almost anything goes wrong and you've just set your car on fire. As for changing the molecular structure of the fuel, that is what refining operations do when they improve the octane of the fuel. Fun fact: Octane is a measure of the fuel's resistance to combustion; the higher the rating, the less combustable it is. High octane fuel (in an engine that is tweaked to handle it properly) resists compbustion until the cyclinder in the engine reaches maximum compression, thus generating a stronger downforce when the fuel-air mixture ignites. The result is a cleaner burn and more power. The problem is that you also have an engine that requires more expensive fuel (high performance engines are infamous for not working well with low octane fuels). Whatever increase you get in MPG is usually offset by the higher priced fuel. Already got you covered in my little treastise Though here's some fun trivia, most cars that I've driven seem to to better on 2 points higher octane than what the manual says. It also matters quite dramatically on what quality of fuel you put into your car. If you buy from an offbrand gas, you're going to get offbrand performance, as their fuel isn't as clean as the stuff you get from Exxon etc. (but there are only 4 refining companies you say? Here's a fun fact, the bigger companies keep the good stuff for themselves, and sell the leftovers quite commonly to everyone else.)
#7 homicidal_squirrel Jun 30, 2011 9:23:44	It saves on gas. Here is how it works: Show No car = No need to buy gas = Saving on gas
#8 lokiare Jun 30, 2011 12:11:44	It saves on gas. Here is how it works: Show No car = No need to buy gas = Saving on gas
#9 lokiare Jun 30, 2011 12:12:23	oopps forgot... add thes to the previous post... [snark][/snark]
#10 Someone Jun 30, 2011 12:15:16	Um, gasoline is already really pure, what "additives" is he talking about? If he means dirt and such, just get a better filter for the fuel tank, like some fancy activated-carbon water filter derivative. (Warning: SCIENCE!)  Octane is the chemical name for the eight carbon ring hydrocarbon that makes up the majority of gasoline, as opposed to cetane, the seven carbon ring hydrocarbon that makes up the majority of diesel fuel. Both fuels are usually have a bit of the other (since it will burn anyway), hence the ratings. Anyway, if you really wanted to drastically improve milage, do something to make use of the third of the total potential heat energy that goes out the exhaust pipe, or the third that goes out through the radiator.
#11 homicidal_squirrel Jun 30, 2011 13:21:19	It saves on gas. Here is how it works: Show No car = No need to buy gas = Saving on gas
#12 calronmoonflower Jun 30, 2011 17:26:32	Well as it is related to the topic, car engines have a device called a catalytic converter that use platinum as a catalyst to cause some of the normally unspent fuel to burn off while exiting the exhaust. A few years back I heard about someone finally getting the idea to move the thing to before the gas goes into the engine and thus increasing the combustion rate and thus improving gas mileage. I have not heard much about this sense then however.
#13 Cpt_Micha Jun 30, 2011 17:31:20	That's pretty much what the platinum on your spark plugs does, is it accelerates the burn process (along with being more electrically conductive).
#14 boraxe Jun 30, 2011 21:07:14	What do you think? does it work or is it another 'scam'? No need to put scam in quotes.