I will appreciate all of your thoughts and comments on this subject and will take everything that all of you say to heart as I am writing this paper.
Also he is a Marty-Stu.
Besides, violence isn't so good to teach kiddies. America is crazy confused on this issue.
It's not just about him. Salvatore has a bunch of cool , deep characters like Wulfgar, Cattie-Brie, Bruenor, Entreri, Jarlaxle, Cadderly and Regis.
RA Salvatore's Drizzt serieses (serie? series? What's the plural?) are Awesome.
Despite all of the Hate *snip*
Hate? HATE!? You think this is hate? This is loathing of the highest degree, no question about it.
Free world and all, so I don't mind if the fanboy's like Salvatore or not. He's just not my style, I prefer an other who isn't a blatant racist and cliche-runner. But too each their own and all that fancy jazz uh? Cheers mate! 
How 'bout we agree too disagree on our disagreements for the sake of agreement?
racist? Drizzt is black! how is Salvatore RACIST? of all things, really...
Oh God No! Don't talk about D&D and Racism! No more!
I mean when we sit down and think about it you will have to agree that he has some moral values that are good for today's society to look at and pay attention to.
Also he is a Marty-Stu.
I agree there.
I also think that Drizzt is too focused on himself. Good things he does seem to be more because of emo guilt trips than actual goodness.
He also seems a bit racist in some of his judgements (talking about species, not the colour of skin in this context).
I must say that I'm probably a bit biased because of a creepy Drizzt fanboy that I used to know.
I mean when we sit down and think about it you will have to agree that he has some moral values that are good for today's society to look at and pay attention to.
I completely agree on that point. However, the moral aspect of my character wonders at the validity of what you are asking; are essays and the like not meant to be researched and completed by one's self, interviewing specific people (instead of merely posting a vast question to a large pool of random, unknown people), in order to form a thesis and storyline? Part of me as it odds with what you ask, so you understand my hesitancy I hope?
Hey everyone I am posting this thread to get some ideas for a paper I am writing for my English class at college. The paper has to be on someone or something that we think is a good or a bad influence on today's society. I have decided to do this paper on my favorite character from my favorite book series Drizzt Do'Urden. I was wanting to get some other input on others thoughts about the character himself before I start writing the paper and thought what and who better to help me with this then all the people on here. So give me your thoughts on this and tell me just why you feel the way you do.
I will appreciate all of your thoughts and comments on this subject and will take everything that all of you say to heart as I am writing this paper.
*roll!
I read the books until they started boring me. And I stand by my statement: "if your love is innocent, you're doing it wrong."
"If your love is innocent, you're likely not doing it at all."
As for the OP: sorry, never read the Drizzt books. I'm more of a Strahd von Zarovich, or Jaqueline Renier person. Darklords (and ladys, of course) for the win!
Drizzt knew Cattie Brie when she was a kid. That's kind of creepy.
By our standards it could be. That might be different if we could also live for centuries.
By our standards it could be. That might be different if we could also live for centuries.
Imagine this, you have neighbors. They have a 3 year old daughter.
Fast forward 18 years, you're in bed with her.
Yes, by our standards. When 20 years is about a third of your life, that's significant. When it's only 1/35th, it's not really the same.
But it's still 1/3 of her life for her.
Imagine this, you have neighbors. They have a 3 year old daughter.
Fast forward 18 years, you're in bed with her.
If I am human, as I currently am forced to be, then yes that is problematic. I would be a full 30 years older. That is creepy. My dad was 15 years older than my mom, and I thought that was a bit odd too.
If I am an unaging entity (like a consciousness preserved in a ageless, synthetic body that is indistinguishable from human), or one that ages very slowly like an elf, I can imagine that I would have no problem with this.
So? If the fact that she knew him when she was little, then the fairy tale romance of the kids that played together when little and then grew up and played (in the bedroom) when they were adults wouldn't be so accepted.
I don't get your point there. Was that directed at me or PK?
Is she concenting? (Yep)
Do they have a vow not to be together for any reason? (Nope)
Assuming thoes three answers are correct as far as they relate to the preceeding questions then there are no moral issues left to consider. There are other thigns that I might find unsavory if I was the one contemplating entering such a relationship by my personal feelings have no bearing on moral propriety. While it may not be a decision you would personally choose, your right to rationally denoucne it ends at the edge of the moral ground. Because you would choose not to do it does not make it 'creepy'. Grow a stomach.
Is she 3 now? (Nope)
Is she concenting? (Yep)
Assuming thoes to questions are correct, then no moral issues. There are other thigns that I might find unsavory if I was the one contemplating entering such a relationship by my personal feelings have no bearing on moral propriety. While it may not be a decision you would personally choose, your right to rationally denoucne it ends at the edge of the moral ground. Because you would choose not to do it does not make it 'creepy'. Grow a stomach.
I do agree with you. I will point out however that what's creepy to a person is a matter of perspective. So the "grow a stomach" comment may be a going a tad too far.
Besides, violence isn't so good to teach kiddies. America is crazy confused on this issue.
I'm incredibly interested in hearing what led you to this opinion (the America part). Elaborate, if you don't mind.
Through the character, however, are racist overtones set down by the Salvatore himself.
How 'bout we agree too disagree on our disagreements for the sake of agreement?
Nope. I ain't lettin' you off that easy, pal. If you pull out the racism card, you'd best have good reason for doing so - not some cryptic BS that you conveniently refuse to explain for the sake of agreement. So, let's hear it. What racism are you talking about? Explain it.
It's been a while since I read any Drizzt stuff (much like EE, I stopped when it began to bore me. Ok, I tried a li'l after it started boring me an' then quit. You get the idea.) so I may just not be remembering all of the racism. I'd appreciate it if you were to remind me.
I'm incredibly interested in hearing what led you to this opinion (the America part). Elaborate, if you don't mind.
I suspect that's just along the vein of thought that goes something not entirely unlike "a role model shouldn't be someone that solves their problems through violence".
Which, you know, as an adventurer and start of something like 12 books now (I think) Drizzit does quite often. He sticks his swords in things and they stop being problems. It's kinda his thing. Oh sure, you can yee and yaw about how clever he was to figure out just which thing he should stick his swords into to solve his problems, but it's still, by-and-large, his favored method for problem solving.
I find the subject in which this thread has now devolved into as highly entertaining. Maybe Drizzt/Salvatore really are good for something; getting people to argue about creepy stalker, sexual predators.
Cue Twilight discussion (i.e. screamfest).
I suspect that's just along the vein of thought that goes something not entirely unlike "a role model shouldn't be someone that solves their problems through violence".
Which, you know, as an adventurer and start of something like 12 books now (I think) Drizzit does quite often. He sticks his swords in things and they stop being problems. It's kinda his thing. Oh sure, you can yee and yaw about how clever he was to figure out just which thing he should stick his swords into to solve his problems, but it's still, by-and-large, his favored method for problem solving.
Right, I was more curious to hear her reasons for mentioning America specifically in her statement, though.
But heck if I know her particular reasoning.
Oh. That might just be the weird thing about our entertainment, in which it's perfectly ok to kill hoards of people and be excessively violent, but show a (female) nipple and your rating goes through the roof and you're kicked off most television networks.
But heck if I know her particular reasoning.
That's pretty much what I was thinking, but I wanted to hear her reasoning. I know she's Chinese but I don't know if she's actually from China. If she is, I'd think it pretty interesting that she arrived at that conclusion considering China's penchant for uber censorship. Really, I'm curious. I'd like to see why she sees this that way from her perspective. Hopefully she'll pop in soon and gimme an answer. Then we could stop speculatin' an' start discussin'. :D
Oh. That might just be the weird thing about our entertainment, in which it's perfectly ok to kill hoards of people and be excessively violent, but show a (female) nipple and your rating goes through the roof and you're kicked off most television networks.
But heck if I know her particular reasoning.
We in Europe (particularly Germany) have the exact opposite problem, again taken to ridiculous extremes, so no need to feel special about that ;) .
I'm not so sure about that...but then again I know nothing of German television. Anyway, between an excess of nude and violence I wouldn't choose violence.
Eh, I never said I would. Both are unnecessary and generally gratuitous, both can be enjoyable, both are a luxury you don't really need (as it applies to the media). However, censorship on either is just as - if not more - ridiculous IMO.
Eh, I never said I would. Both are unnecessary and generally gratuitous, both can be enjoyable, both are a luxury you don't really need (as it applies to the media). However, censorship on either is just as - if not more - ridiculous IMO.
Oh, I agree, make no mistake.
We in Europe (particularly Germany) have the exact opposite problem, again taken to ridiculous extremes, so no need to feel special about that ;) .
So I've recently read. Tomorrow, UFC 99 is going to take place in Germany. Apparently, the media was throwing out ridiculous lies to demonize the sport of MMA in an effort to get the show cancelled. They said stuff like it's a no rules fight where fights to the death were considered ok and even tacitly encouraged. Which isn' true in the least (it's a regulated sport that includes rules governing everything from weight classes to strike regions and there has only been two MMA deaths in competition, only one of which happened in a sanctioned event). Luckily, the UFC had some pretty damned good spokespeople available. Luckier still was that the best of these was also a fighter competing in the main event - and a former teacher. Kind of stopped the "barbaric brutes" crap in its tracks. ;) They also sued to force the media agencies to retract the stuff that was totally made up. It's interesting to see that the show was seen as something bad but that lying about it to the public was a-ok.
.Huh. Never heard of it, but then, I'm not into sports at all. And it sounds plausible enough - you can count on us when it comes to slander by the mainstream media
You've never heard of the Ultimate Fighting Championship or mixed martial arts? Whoa ... I guess they do have a ton of work to do to mainstream this sucker.
It's interesting to see that the show was seen as something bad but that lying about it to the public was a-ok.
As I've been keeping (relatively) up with all sorts of LGBT rights legislation in the US for the past few years, that sort of thing stopped being "interesting" to me a long while back.
As I've been keeping (relatively) up with all sorts of LGBT rights legislation in the US for the past few years, that sort of thing stopped being "interesting" to me a long while back.
I have no doubt about that. Interesting was the nicest way I could put it. And lying about a combat sport ain't got much on the other stuff that gets misrepresented, either.
I'm not one to try and quantify the magnitude of an ethics breech.
You've never heard of the Ultimate Fighting Championship or mixed martial arts? Whoa ... I guess they do have a ton of work to do to mainstream this sucker.
Well, people in Germany are pretty close-minded as pertaining to sports anyhow (hey, there's people around here who've never heard of American Football, can't tell apart cricket and crocket, and think that martial arts=karate), and then, I'm uninterested even by their standards (i.e., I don't like soccer), so that's perhaps the one thing the media aren't responsible for. I don't even watch TV.
EDIT:
And lying about a combat sport ain't got much on the other stuff that gets misrepresented, either.
QFT (really all I can do here without breaking the CoC ;)).
Well, people in Germany are pretty close-minded as pertaining to sports anyhow (hey, there's people around here who've never heard of American Football, can't tell apart cricket and crocket, and think that martial arts=karate), and then, I'm uninterested even by their standards (i.e., I don't like soccer), so that's perhaps the one thing the media aren't responsible for. I don't even watch TV.
I think a good part of it is that I'm an American and that's the place the sport took off. It's something I've been aware of for a very long time. 'Course there's people here that have the wrong idea about it or are completely unaware. Hell, in the US, "UFC" and "MMA" mean the same thing to some people. The UFC loves the fact that their organization's name is used interchangeably with the name of the sport. Kind of helps their branding a bit. :D Other than the US, The UK, Brazil, Japan, Mexico and the Philippenes seem to be where people recognize the sport the most.
UFC is good and all, but I'd like to see it evolve moreso:
Show
I still want to see the incarcerated given the option of gladiatorial combat for reduced sentencing/some incentive to fund law enforcement, prisons, and cut down on overcrowding, whatever.
They have variations on this in Shadowrun; "Urban Brawl" being the highlight. Think of it kinda' like football (goals & a ball) w/ weapons & armor, positions, leagues, etc. "Combat Bike" is pretty much the same thing ala violent Motor Cross w/ a ball as well...just more fire/horsepower.
Different circuits from lethal to nonlethal, edged, bludgeoning, team affiliated, stand-alone, etc., catering to the whims of the crowd & controlling bodies, but the choice must be present. Nothing mandatory. A degree of humanity must be observed to make damn sure abuses don't surface. Some monitoring must be enforced like in all things.
You could be risking your ass in the shower or neck in the prison yard, or...you could get out, get some exercise, even a degree of fame, pay your debt to society, Hell, write a book about it, do the talk show circuit once you're done...if you live (choose to go that route). Big gamble, but it need not be to the death. "Defeat" is a relative term.
Guess it would be a Pay-Per-View kinda' thing like UFC. But it's more credible than wrestling, and not the "business" of modern sports are today. Imagine the revenue. Just normal cons not the gold-plated egos I see all the time.
Violent offender dies in the ring? So be it. Saved a lot of tax dollars housing, feeding, medicating them, and likely saved a normal persons's life too should they attempt to return to a life of crime. Consider, they spend 2-3X's as much on an average inmate in Oregon than an average public school kid. One is screwed for life, the other is just starting his/her's. Is that fair?
You could get meaningful sponsors apart from Gatoraid.
ex) "Johnson & Johnson's defribulators kick ass! Get one today!" "Krupp knives give me the edge I need when it's all on the line!" Or, "Ethicon Endosurgery (also J&J's technically) hepled safely remove that busted spear point in my gut. I recommend them." Specific diets, exercise regimens, etc.
And say they serve their time in the ring and live...going back to a life of crime isn't feasible. Everyone w/ a TV knows who they are now, and, it's likely, they'll be too physically mauled to be a considerable threat "outside". I mean, how quickly did they zero OJ after the Nevada robbery bit?
They are always instituting little BS policies to raise $ for the cops; Click It or Ticket, which is highly suspect. Normally, don't you have to unfasten your seatbelt to fetch you wallet (ID, insurance, registration) in your back pocket? I've seen this a million times, the guy wants to be prompt and have it ready to go before the officer even asks to engender some leniency or save time as he's likely in a hurry (probably caught speeding for a reason)...
Upping marijuana possession fines but not doing much of anything about hunting down violent offenders. Priorities are messed up, particularly during election seasons or extra media coverage. Should be exclusive.
And when they do have to use lethal force, omg, the communities go crazy, huge row, paid leave/dismissal, etc. Meanwhile, no one in the hood saw anything of course...
Cooperation is a faux pas, damn near a sin, but killing someone for a pair of Air Jordans is "Just the way it is"?
I still want to see the incarcerated given the option of gladiatorial combat for reduced sentencing/some incentive to fund law enforcement, prisons, and cut down on overcrowding, whatever.
They have variations on this in Shadowrun; "Urban Brawl" being the highlight. Think of it kinda' like football (goals & a ball) w/ weapons & armor, positions, leagues, etc. "Combat Bike" is pretty much the same thing ala violent Motor Cross w/ a ball as well...just more fire/horsepower.
Different circuits from lethal to nonlethal, edged, bludgeoning, team affiliated, stand-alone, etc., catering to the whims of the crowd & controlling bodies, but the choice must be present. Nothing mandatory. A degree of humanity must be observed to make damn sure abuses don't surface. Some monitoring must be enforced like in all things.
You could be risking your ass in the shower or neck in the prison yard, or...you could get out, get some exercise, even a degree of fame, pay your debt to society, Hell, write a book about it, do the talk show circuit once you're done...if you live (choose to go that route). Big gamble, but it need not be to the death. "Defeat" is a relative term.
Guess it would be a Pay-Per-View kinda' thing like UFC. But it's more credible than wrestling, and not the "business" of modern sports are today. Imagine the revenue. Just normal cons not the gold-plated egos I see all the time.
Violent offender dies in the ring? So be it. Saved a lot of tax dollars housing, feeding, medicating them, and likely saved a normal persons's life too should they attempt to return to a life of crime. Consider, they spend 2-3X's as much on an average inmate in Oregon than an average public school kid. One is screwed for life, the other is just starting his/her's. Is that fair?
You could get meaningful sponsors apart from Gatoraid.
ex) "Johnson & Johnson's defribulators kick ass! Get one today!" "Krupp knives give me the edge I need when it's all on the line!" Or, "Ethicon Endosurgery (also J&J's technically) hepled safely remove that busted spear point in my gut. I recommend them." Specific diets, exercise regimens, etc.
And say they serve their time in the ring and live...going back to a life of crime isn't feasible. Everyone w/ a TV knows who they are now, and, it's likely, they'll be too physically mauled to be a considerable threat "outside". I mean, how quickly did they zero OJ after the Nevada robbery bit?
They are always instituting little BS policies to raise $ for the cops; Click It or Ticket, which is highly suspect. Normally, don't you have to unfasten your seatbelt to fetch you wallet (ID, insurance, registration) in your back pocket? I've seen this a million times, the guy wants to be prompt and have it ready to go before the officer even asks to engender some leniency or save time as he's likely in a hurry (probably caught speeding for a reason)...
Upping marijuana possession fines but not doing much of anything about hunting down violent offenders. Priorities are messed up, particularly during election seasons or extra media coverage. Should be exclusive.
And when they do have to use lethal force, omg, the communities go crazy, huge row, paid leave/dismissal, etc. Meanwhile, no one in the hood saw anything of course...
Cooperation is a faux pas, damn near a sin, but killing someone for a pair of Air Jordans is "Just the way it is"?Hey everyone I am posting this thread to get some ideas for a paper I am writing for my English class at college. The paper has to be on someone or something that we think is a good or a bad influence on today's society. I have decided to do this paper on my favorite character from my favorite book series Drizzt Do'Urden. I was wanting to get some other input on others thoughts about the character himself before I start writing the paper and thought what and who better to help me with this then all the people on here. So give me your thoughts on this and tell me just why you feel the way you do.
I will appreciate all of your thoughts and comments on this subject and will take everything that all of you say to heart as I am writing this paper.
I spent some of my formative years with Drizzt as a role-model, actually. He and Sturm Brightblade showed me that there is some philosophical depth to true warriors, and that someone with a large build and a naturally martial personality could still serve the greater good, with self-discipline. I honestly think that I'll be having my children read the Drizzt books when they're old enough, simply so they'll have a hero to look up to that has some moral high ground instead of some of the role models portrayed in modern/possibly future media. Yeah, I'm a fighter, and I won't shy away from violence, but I'm not a savage brute like most of the fighters where I grew up. I partially attribute this to Drizzt.
As well, the fact that he rose above the evil influences of his home cave, forsaking everything he knew in the pursuit of decent morality when he had the chance, speaks to at least me on a very deep level. Even his commitment to good before he escaped, even though he did have to lie to do it, shouts of strong moral character. After he left Menzo, his never ending quest to overcome his roots, the deep friendships he made, and the lives that he saved go to show his decency. Even his violence, which admittedly wasn't seldom, was a necessary survival tool during this time frame. That he didn't relish in it, save for a few times where his 'humanity' showed itself, is another example for how he's a good role model. Think about it- in today's world, there are things we all have to do to survive (work or school, for instance), that one should both not shy away from or get too wrapped up in. Drizzt shows that what must be done, should be done, but should be done for good.
I am tired, and will curtail what could end up to be pages upon pages before it morphs into that. Good luck on your paper!
Show
-Nothing says "dark horse" like defying the basic conventions of your own race. Especially these days w/ so many dropping the race card over perceived slights, flexing all sorts of socio-political muscle @ the drop of a hat, and generally reacting in haphazard fashion.
Having said that, Drizzt doesn't hold many racial pretenses, save those of orcs, and even then, in the new texts, his foresight into the greater good often holds his wrath in check (good Wis?). He has very little use for political and social strata, namely by virtue of his alignment and longevity; he sees the longview more soundly/wisely (morality and ethics are more important than social constructs that change too quickly w/ little thought/planning). He's not one to fly off the handle like so many popular firebrands these days. Prefering to lie in wait and bide his time/recon/plan ahead, whereas we are oh-so-guilty of jumping the gun w/ disasterous consequences, especially at the prospect of violence.
-We love a rags to riches story. His, being more covuluted than most; starting off privledged (noble house), but ironically disadvantaged (male & in a cutthroat [even for drow] household) in a rampantly evil society and relatively naive, he suffers a river of indignities and loses more than most. Essential underdog story. Though this would be enough to break the lot of us and just cave under overwhelming pressure to blend into common society, he keeps a brave face on things and nearly snaps...but not quite. Years of toiling after "throwing it all away" so to speak, losing friend after friend in grizzly/dramatic fashion, he still maintains and becomes richer for it...but only after immense suffering, slander, and alienation. Even then, after acceptance in Icewind Dale, he's sitll relatively persona non grata in many areas but he's realistic to that.
-Bipartisanship is worse than ever and he helps bridge that gap using reason and morality as his compass, not rhetoric and knee jerk reactions. This is likely due to a very long tenure of pain & suffering as it helps illustrate deeper truths when you've XP'ed them 1st hand. Simply put, there is too much factioning these days and by his ample virtue & insight, he helps maintain a model of individuality w/ social concern and selflessness as a sounding board, whereas most of us immediate rally to any convenient banner we quickly identify with but rarely scrutinize correctly. Kind of a quality vs. quantity arguement.
-His violence, when needed, is how we should operate martially speaking. He is terribly quick and efficient, not needlessly cruel or full of bombast. He's like a credible war vet; great XP and the capacity to wrought mighty destruction, but no posturing or boastfulness to betray that (wise) because he knows he simply can should he elect to. Ego has no place there, something your typical g-thug will never know, and sadly, as a result, that pretense is ironically what gets so many of them killed.
-He does not make a spectacle of himself, knowing humility is a virtue. This is a major problem these days as we encourage gold-plated egos all the time. Very rare is it that we see a star that isn't full of bluster & big talk. Those concepts do not lend themselves well to his aegis and often foster untimely demise as "the loudest person in the room is the weakest one".
-Self-sufficiency, the ranger ideal. These days, that's glossed over as any need/want is catered to easilly enough w/ a wave of the credit card. Very few can actually live ecologically sound much less fend for themselves w/out floundering and making a larger mess of things when it's down to the wire.
-Conviction and integrity. Multiple times he could've yielded to popular design of his racial predilections, ie)take the easy out like so many of us do. He doesn't. Better yet, he knows ahead of time that it will engender more work and suffering rather than finding out as he goes.
-Nothing says "dark horse" like defying the basic conventions of your own race. Especially these days w/ so many dropping the race card over perceived slights, flexing all sorts of socio-political muscle @ the drop of a hat, and generally reacting in haphazard fashion.
Having said that, Drizzt doesn't hold many racial pretenses, save those of orcs, and even then, in the new texts, his foresight into the greater good often holds his wrath in check (good Wis?). He has very little use for political and social strata, namely by virtue of his alignment and longevity; he sees the longview more soundly/wisely (morality and ethics are more important than social constructs that change too quickly w/ little thought/planning). He's not one to fly off the handle like so many popular firebrands these days. Prefering to lie in wait and bide his time/recon/plan ahead, whereas we are oh-so-guilty of jumping the gun w/ disasterous consequences, especially at the prospect of violence.
-We love a rags to riches story. His, being more covuluted than most; starting off privledged (noble house), but ironically disadvantaged (male & in a cutthroat [even for drow] household) in a rampantly evil society and relatively naive, he suffers a river of indignities and loses more than most. Essential underdog story. Though this would be enough to break the lot of us and just cave under overwhelming pressure to blend into common society, he keeps a brave face on things and nearly snaps...but not quite. Years of toiling after "throwing it all away" so to speak, losing friend after friend in grizzly/dramatic fashion, he still maintains and becomes richer for it...but only after immense suffering, slander, and alienation. Even then, after acceptance in Icewind Dale, he's sitll relatively persona non grata in many areas but he's realistic to that.
-Bipartisanship is worse than ever and he helps bridge that gap using reason and morality as his compass, not rhetoric and knee jerk reactions. This is likely due to a very long tenure of pain & suffering as it helps illustrate deeper truths when you've XP'ed them 1st hand. Simply put, there is too much factioning these days and by his ample virtue & insight, he helps maintain a model of individuality w/ social concern and selflessness as a sounding board, whereas most of us immediate rally to any convenient banner we quickly identify with but rarely scrutinize correctly. Kind of a quality vs. quantity arguement.
-His violence, when needed, is how we should operate martially speaking. He is terribly quick and efficient, not needlessly cruel or full of bombast. He's like a credible war vet; great XP and the capacity to wrought mighty destruction, but no posturing or boastfulness to betray that (wise) because he knows he simply can should he elect to. Ego has no place there, something your typical g-thug will never know, and sadly, as a result, that pretense is ironically what gets so many of them killed.
-He does not make a spectacle of himself, knowing humility is a virtue. This is a major problem these days as we encourage gold-plated egos all the time. Very rare is it that we see a star that isn't full of bluster & big talk. Those concepts do not lend themselves well to his aegis and often foster untimely demise as "the loudest person in the room is the weakest one".
-Self-sufficiency, the ranger ideal. These days, that's glossed over as any need/want is catered to easilly enough w/ a wave of the credit card. Very few can actually live ecologically sound much less fend for themselves w/out floundering and making a larger mess of things when it's down to the wire.
-Conviction and integrity. Multiple times he could've yielded to popular design of his racial predilections, ie)take the easy out like so many of us do. He doesn't. Better yet, he knows ahead of time that it will engender more work and suffering rather than finding out as he goes.
Drizzt is, as far as I can see, a good role model. Sure, he's a little emo at times, but who wouldn't be if they were exiled from their home, shunned by everyone they now swear to help, and can't openly 'love' the object of their affection. Self-pity aside, this angst could be cited as a symptom of his goodness, and therefore his role modelness(?), as he wouldn't care about how his actions effected others unless he were a good being.
As well, the fact that he rose above the evil influences of his home cave, forsaking everything he knew in the pursuit of decent morality when he had the chance, speaks to at least me on a very deep level. Even his commitment to good before he escaped, even though he did have to lie to do it, shouts of strong moral character. After he left Menzo, his never ending quest to overcome his roots, the deep friendships he made, and the lives that he saved go to show his decency. Even his violence, which admittedly wasn't seldom, was a necessary survival tool during this time frame. That he didn't relish in it, save for a few times where his 'humanity' showed itself, is another example for how he's a good role model. Think about it- in today's world, there are things we all have to do to survive (work or school, for instance), that one should both not shy away from or get too wrapped up in. Drizzt shows that what must be done, should be done, but should be done for good.
I am tired, and will curtail what could end up to be pages upon pages before it morphs into that. Good luck on your paper!
Thanks for your honest opinion this is exactly what I was think and hoping to get some help on how to explain it in my paper. I am very glad to see that someone else out there sees just the same things in Drizzt that I do.
Thanks again for your honest opinion.
Anyway, "Goblins" says it well: http://www.goblinscomic.com/d/20050710.html
Yes, I'm a grumpy old man who likes Shakespeare and Attic tragedies, trapped in the body of a young athlete... Good luck with the paper! ;)
Hey everyone I am posting this thread to get some ideas for a paper I am writing for my English class at college. The paper has to be on someone or something that we think is a good or a bad influence on today's society. I have decided to do this paper on my favorite character from my favorite book series Drizzt Do'Urden. I was wanting to get some other input on others thoughts about the character himself before I start writing the paper and thought what and who better to help me with this then all the people on here. So give me your thoughts on this and tell me just why you feel the way you do.
I will appreciate all of your thoughts and comments on this subject and will take everything that all of you say to heart as I am writing this paper.
While I enjoy Salvatore's writings and characters, including Drizzt, I have never seen him as being anything more than just a character in a fantasy book and that none of the characters have any influence, good or bad, in the real world. And any possible influence is only to gamers and gaming. His characteristics and mannerisms and thoughts are centered on a fantasy world and have no real bearing on the real world.
The main problem that I see with Drizzt is that it's tough being a rebel against an entirely unconvincing society. The incessant backstabbing is so selfdestructive it's downright silly, and even in a fantasy world with deities who can be blamed, it takes an omnipotent one to raise up a selfdestructive and unworkable society above it's more viable neighbours. Also, for a supposedly oppressive matriarchy, the women do surprisingly little more than wear dominatrix outfits while the men do lots of cool stuff and loads of named male individuals are so indispensable and awesome that the women can't really dominate them anyway. Rebelling against rampant silliness is hard to make all that cool. The surface-based novels where his drow background is generally hand-wavable are more bearable IMO.
Anyway, "Goblins" says it well: http://www.goblinscomic.com/d/20050710.html
Yes, I'm a grumpy old man who likes Shakespeare and Attic tragedies, trapped in the body of a young athlete... Good luck with the paper! ;)
Sorry I thought you were typing about congress or the Senate or something like that. Now I realize you are talking about the drow Culture.:D
Note: Drizzts never wanted to kill anyone. Even when he had to. He learned that something that is just the way it has to be for the safety of others.
I think Drizzt does enjoy killing all the monsters but I think he doesn't want to, I think thats like a psychological scar from being Drow and living in their society. As much as we are free to make our own choices, we are indeed products of our environments and somethings are too deeply imbedded in us.
Drizzt's character is formed entirely from his rejection of his native culture, but there is no analogues culture in our world today. The culture of the Drow is one of pure evil. They revel in doing acts of evil, and worship a goddess of acknowledged pure evil.
No human society functions like that. Even those cultures which we despise most do what they do because they believe (however misguidedly) that what they are doing is good and right.
The drow, however, KNOW what they are doing is wrong and evil, and glory in it.
As such, no human rejection of any human society can be represented in analogy by Drizzt's rejection of Drow society, because no human can have the same motivation as Drizzt did.
As such, Drizzt cannot function as a role model, because to be a role model, you have to serve as an example to people IN THE SAME SITUATION, and no real person can BE in the situation that Drizzt came out of.
So very, very true.I am not trying to dissuade the original poster, but is there not a real world person who you can use as an example? I think that Bill and Linda Gates and their charity work would be a great source to write about. Also, will it not be too much of a hassle to explain enough about Drizzt in the paper to get your point across?
I wanted to do someone that I would not have to worry about others doing a paper on the same topic. With that being said I have chosen to do the paper on just Drizzt's moral values and the way he carries himself thru everything that has happened to him in his life. You will see what I mean because I have finished the paper and am about to post it to show what I wrote to everyone that has helped me out with their comments about Drizzt's personality.
Once in everyone’s life you come across that one piece of literature or film that takes hold of your heart and soul and makes you believe in this person no matter how unreal the character. This is very much the case for me every time I pick up another one of The Legend of Drizzt Do’Urden novels. I see the good that resonates from him. Whenever I think of Drizzt Do’Urden I think of nothing but good and positive qualities that every person would be better for having. He never lets the ways of his people rule his morals and beliefs. Drizzt always chooses to stand up for his moral values. Furthermore, he is always determined in every situation that the cruel world of his has thrown at him. Thus, I have come to believe that Drizzt Do’Urden is a positive influence on today’s society.
I am unsure if you can really pick out any one thing that was the reason for him being totally different from everyone else is his society. Some would say that it started at his birth, for there was not to be three male children to any one patriarch of a house of Drows, when he was to be put to death the moment he came into the world. All at once he was spared as a result of a twist in fate that had taken his oldest brother instead. Some would say that it was the purple eyes that no one else had ever been born with. Whichever way you look at it he suffered at the hands of his people for being different; a society that rewarded evil and acts of evil. They were a culture that always dealt cruel acts of violence onto each other and other cultures to make their own house more powerful in their society. Even at a young age Drizzt began wanting to better himself and the ones he loved in the most positive ways possible. He always tried to convince the people around him what was the nicer and better ways to do things. Whenever he saw that his youngest sister had the potential to do well, he tried to convince her that it was the best way to go. Drizzt always tried to look at the positive side of every situation. Despite the beatings for trying to do good and the constant belittling of all the members of his house, he was always looking towards the good in everyone and everything that happened as much as he could. When he became old enough to look threw the veils placed upon his culture he was able to see threw the lies that were placed there and decide to better himself as a person. Once he had figured out that as long as his people followed a dark and spiteful deity they would never change or ever know how to stop the lying and evil acts; he decided to leave everything he ever knew behind to start over in another world that to him was better than where he would end up by staying with his people. All of this shows us just how much he would not let the ways of his people rule his morals and beliefs.
It takes moral strength to be able to stand up for what you believe in even when those believe can cost you what you have come to know as your home. Despite now being on his own in a world so much different from his birth place and with so many people that hated his kind, he still found a way to not kill for pleasure. Drizzt was always looking to see if killing this person would solve a problem for someone or would better the world as a whole. Immediately upon being confronted the by the assassin Entreri Drizzt kept his cool never thinking about killing him; even when Entreri wanted him to show his full potential so very badly. Drizzt was constantly protecting the innocent from evil. In spite of trying to become a member of his birth culture he was still unable to not protect the innocent during a visit to the surface with his people. Instead of killing an innocent human child just because she was not one of the drow, he spared her life and hide her so that the others with him was unable to figure out that she was still alive. The one thing that you can always say about Drizzt is that he is always there for his friends. When Regis had gotten into trouble with some people he use to know from a thieves guild, Drizzt was still there to help him and get him out of trouble to keep him from being killed. Moreover, when Bruenor Battlehammer wanted to take back the kingdom of his people from the evil that had took it over Drizzt was right by his side without any hesitation. Drizzt has everlastingly stood by his strong moral values that he set for himself at an early age.
Immediately upon walking out of the cave that brings Drizzt to the surface world he knows that he belongs there, this helps him to believe in himself. Notwithstanding the fact that no one else for a long time wants him around or thinks that he could be different, Drizzt always believes that he did the right thing in coming to the surface world to live. He has forever more been able to face his fears head on. Once he figures out that his people will never leave his friends alone until they have him, Drizzt decides to go back to that culture and face whatever is waiting there for him. He faces the most fearsome thing in his life not knowing what is in store for him or if he will ever return to the ones he loves. With this in mind Drizzt never backs down from any situation thrown at him. In the course of saving Regis from the terrible thieves’ guild Drizzt had started out wearing a mask that made him look like an ordinary surface elf. When he starting feeling that wearing the mast meant denying who he was, Drizzt took it off and face every hurdle thrown at him because of his race. After that he never thought that his course of action was a bad choice for him. Drizzt looked at everyone staring and yelling at him with unkind thoughts about him in their words or eyes. He just kept his head up and walked on knowing that he was a better person for not backing down from anything he did. With ever obstacle thrown into the path of his life Drizzt is forever being determined to overcome the situation and move on with his life in the best possible ways.
Even before he knew that his people were all evil and never going to change he knew that he had to stand by what he believed to be the true way to act and react to every situation. Whether he is fighting against the ways of his heritage or against pure evil itself, Drizzt Do’Urden always keeps his moral values at the front of everything he does. Being determined in his actions and thoughts helps Drizzt Do’Urden to overcome every bad thing that has happened in his life time so far. For all these reason and ever more would keep you here for far too long I have come to believe that Drizzt Do’Urden is a very positive influence on today’s society. When I think of him and this book series I come to realize that when I have children and they get old enough I will tell them to read this series and try to live up to some of the same characteristics that Drizzt has. For in the words of Drizzt Do’Urden, “Mine is a kingdom of the heart and soul, defended by the security of honest love and friendship and the warmth of memories. Better than any land-based kingdom, stronger than any castle wall, and most importantly of all, portable.”