I think what bothers me the most about this article is that the quotes are worded in such a way as to make the PRG procedure out to be a moral imperative for couples wanting to have children. The spokesman in the article uses a lot of very loaded language.
My two big problems with the procedure itself:
1.) It's all well and good that they are screening out potentially deadly genetic markers; however, what is the balancing point between screening out detrimental genes without screening out beneficial genes? Would we screen out a blastocyst we found to be a carrier of the BRCA1 strain even though it may also be a carrier for very high intelligence (assuming we are able to screen for that at some point)?
2.) The creation of a permanent underclass. This will happen. There will be holdouts, or people who cannot afford the procedure, or accidents. Nominally, these people will be less desireable as mates, employees, etc., by those who support the procedure. Will people with a non-screened status be afforded the same protections as are afforded to sex, race, disability, etc.?
I leave you with some Yeats, because it seems appropriate.
Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.
The darkness drops again; but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
-- W.B. Yeats, The Second Coming
Faelar
On-topic, I have not the slightest clue of biology, so I really can't say much about the details.
But to number 2: I don't know where you are from, but assuming you are not from Utopia itself, chances are that an underclass has already formed. There are always those with better education, more wealth, better nutrition and medical care, and better contacts. This means the class will not be created, it already exists. All the genetic screening does is make life better - for the upper class first, but step by step, this progress will reach everyone.
I hope.
-Cherubaddon
Also, I'd certainly be one of those "holdouts" until the day I die. I find this whole line of thinking (the article) monstrous, and very telling. Especially since it would have been, what, a 25-45% chance for the kid to have a disease the crops up in adults and is getting more treatable every year? Yeah.
Count me into the "underclass" that won't do eugenics.
The Yeats is beautiful. As always.
Ah yes, his verse was magnificent.
But to number 2: I don't know where you are from, but assuming you are not from Utopia itself, chances are that an underclass has already formed. There are always those with better education, more wealth, better nutrition and medical care, and better contacts. This means the class will not be created, it already exists. All the genetic screening does is make life better - for the upper class first, but step by step, this progress will reach everyone.
I hope.
-Cherubaddon
I agree that every society has a subset of people who through any number of circumstances, are marginalized by those above them on the social ladder. However, at least here in the U.S., social and economic mobility is fairly common (though not as common as many of us would like to believe) through methods such as scholarships and loans to attend college and programs such as the school lunch programs to at least ensure our children receive proper nourishment. We're not there yet on the access to health care, but hopefully we'll join the rest of the civilised world soon in providing universal health care coverage.
What I fear about the procedure in question (and moreso the rhetoric employed by the people involved in this procedure), is that social and economic classes will become extremely stratified and rigid, as people who, for whatever reason, do not receive the procedure will become increasingly risky bets for the purposes of employment (who wants to spend the money training someone who could die of preventable cancers, etc.), health care (these people impose a massive burden on the health care system by forcing the system to treat them for preventable diseases), education (etc.), etc.
Faelar
Here and now!
My two big problems with the procedure itself:
1.) It's all well and good that they are screening out potentially deadly genetic markers; however, what is the balancing point between screening out detrimental genes without screening out beneficial genes? Would we screen out a blastocyst we found to be a carrier of the BRCA1 strain even though it may also be a carrier for very high intelligence (assuming we are able to screen for that at some point)?
2.) The creation of a permanent underclass. This will happen. There will be holdouts, or people who cannot afford the procedure, or accidents. Nominally, these people will be less desireable as mates, employees, etc., by those who support the procedure. Will people with a non-screened status be afforded the same protections as are afforded to sex, race, disability, etc.?
Faelar
I wouldnt worry. String Theory Invalidates Religion and Evolution - Genetics day in the Sun is done. That double helix that you are so fond of is infact a Genetic Mesh where changes in possibility are tied off in string entanglement and diseases are induced errors to validate outcomes in possibility.
The Universe is Debris of change in possibility. That means "mainstream" perception of reality is wrong and its conclusions thus dangerous.
Think about the concept of Possibility bandwidth. A is a circle covering you, B a circle covering me. Where A&B are the same, you are percieved by me to have blond Hair and blue Eyes. Why? Because it validates a reality in which you have blond hair and blue eyes.
I wouldnt worry. String Theory Invalidates Religion and Evolution - Genetics day in the Sun is done. That double helix that you are so fond of is infact a Genetic Mesh where changes in possibility are tied off in string entanglement and diseases are induced errors to validate outcomes in possibility.
The Universe is Debris of change in possibility. That means "mainstream" perception of reality is wrong and its conclusions thus dangerous.
Think about the concept of Possibility bandwidth. A is a circle covering you, B a circle covering me. Where A&B are the same, you are percieved by me to have blond Hair and blue Eyes. Why? Because it validates a reality in which you have blond hair and blue eyes.
I think your interpretation of String Theory is blatantly teleological, and you of all people should know: 'mainstream' science doesn't tolerate that kind of talk.
This article was mentioned to me as I spoke to some friends of the family a short while ago. Scary stuff. What can you do, though? As soon as the adds hit the air, it will be like the new pill. And of course, we'll treat it like we did cosmetics back in the twenties, or cell phones - a trendy object of abuse.
I also heard talk of other eugenic-esque practices seeing a resumption in the near future, hopefully I can find a link for you...
I think your interpretation of String Theory is blatantly teleological, and you of all people should know: 'mainstream' science doesn't tolerate that kind of talk.
Yeah but it wasnt that long ago that mainstream science burned a man alive for suggestion the earth orbited the sun...I accept that the next thousand years will be spent criticising me as a nut job (a Christian relative called me the Antichrist for telling him what string theiry does for religion and evolution - apparently science proving it all wrong wont go down well).
Yeah but it wasnt that long ago that mainstream science burned a man alive for suggestion the earth orbited the sun...I accept that the next thousand years will be spent criticising me as a nut job (a Christian relative called me the Antichrist for telling him what string theiry does for religion and evolution - apparently science proving it all wrong wont go down well).
Not to bruise your ego or anything, but I doubt you'll ever be noteworthy enough for people to care about you for the next thousand years. Hey, I could be wrong, but so far as I know your claim to fame is talking about String Theory on the WotC boards. Yeah, people will want to discuss this for the next thousand years or so.
Not to bruise your ego or anything, but I doubt you'll ever be noteworthy enough for people to care about you for the next thousand years. Hey, I could be wrong, but so far as I know your claim to fame is talking about String Theory on the WotC boards. Yeah, people will want to discuss this for the next thousand years or so.
You'll laugh now, Dark Stryke, but when they have books that spend chapters just disecting the poetry with which he typed, then who'll be laughing, eh!?!?!
You'll laugh now, Dark Stryke, but when they have books that spend chapters just disecting the poetry with which he typed, then who'll be laughing, eh!?!?!
There it is...the inevitable event where I wind up having cities named after me like "Darwin" and "Christ". Oh yeah Its gonna get ugly.
The only real whinge is that I didnt write fifty million words to prove something that requires a simple single Paragraph Conclusion.
STRING THEORY: The Universe is Debris of change in Possibility, Time continuous change in Possibility, and the Singularity the point of change in Possibility where Strings and their Mirrors converge and separate. The inevitable conclusion being Stringtheory invalidates Religion and Evolution. - yellowdingo 2004
You'll laugh now, Dark Stryke, but when they have books that spend chapters just disecting the poetry with which he typed, then who'll be laughing, eh!?!?!
You know what the best thing about this future is? That I won't be alive to see it.
You know what the best thing about this future is? That I won't be alive to see it.
Maybe we could change that. Anyone have an old Delorian laying around?
STRING THEORY: The Universe is Debris of change in Possibility, Time continuous change in Possibility, and the Singularity the point of change in Possibility where Strings and their Mirrors converge and separate. The inevitable conclusion being Stringtheory invalidates Religion and Evolution. - yellowdingo 2004
Oh my God! Dr. Ray! Is that you?
I agree that every society has a subset of people who through any number of circumstances, are marginalized by those above them on the social ladder. However, at least here in the U.S., social and economic mobility is fairly common (though not as common as many of us would like to believe) through methods such as scholarships and loans to attend college and programs such as the school lunch programs to at least ensure our children receive proper nourishment. We're not there yet on the access to health care, but hopefully we'll join the rest of the civilised world soon in providing universal health care coverage.
Eh my Sociology professor would have a few words to say to that. Upward social mobility is a rare event that is difficult to achieve. It does happen, but that doesn't change the fact that the number 1 predictor of what social class you'll be in(upper, middle, or lower) is determined by which one your parents were in.
I really don't see anything wrong with this. It is making sure that a known likely future health problem doesn't end up harming the child in the future. Based off of what was mentioned in the article, I hardly think that this is going to usher in some new dystopian future. This doesn't even fall under the designed babies category, because they were simply screening for the gene, not replacing it. Does the technology have the potential for misuse? Of course, but that can be said of any technology.
Eh my Sociology professor would have a few words to say to that. Upward social mobility is a rare event that is difficult to achieve. It does happen, but that doesn't change the fact that the number 1 predictor of what social class you'll be in(upper, middle, or lower) is determined by which one your parents were in.
Some of us out here have ethical/moral objections to screening via throwing away embryos. So for us, the normalization of this practice is dystopian.
Some of us out here have ethical/moral objections to screening via throwing away embryos. So for us, the normalization of this practice is dystopian.
Well with that being the objection, I hardly see how it is any more dystopian than the legalization of abortion. Then again I suppose that could simply mean that we are already in a dystopia. I guess when I hear dystopia, I just think things a bit grander. *shrugs*