Ethics Question III: on the subject of altruism - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Ethics Question III: on the subject of altruism

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
EscherEnigma
May 19, 2010 11:00:30 Ok, I don't have a simple question this time, so much as an open invitation to discuss the topic of altruism.

To set the mood, I present No Good Deed, from Wicked [link].

Anyway. So, altruism.

Are good deeds just a cry for attention?
Is altruism a myth we tell ourselves?
Is it real?
Fake?
Could I have chosen a more appropriate song1?
Is altruism an ethical imperative?
Is altruism a moral imperative?
Any other thoughts on the topic ya want to share?

So again, not really looking for anything specific this time, just thought it might be an interesting topic.
________
1No, really, I want to know. That's just the song that jumped to my mind first, and I wonder if anyone has a better one.

#2
The_Silversword
May 19, 2010 11:06:09 Oh jeeze man not another one!!
#3
lofgren
May 19, 2010 11:18:02

Are good deeds just a cry for attention?

By definition? Of course not. Haven't you ever heard of an anonymous donor?

Is altruism a myth we tell ourselves?

I don't even know what that means.

Is it real?

Depends on how you define it. Some people say that altruism means doing something good for somebody in return for no gain whatsoever for yourself. A more useful definition, however, is doing something that increases the fitness of another but decreases your own fitness. That is real. It happens literally every day. Organ donors prove it. Firefighters prove it. Soldiers prove it. However these individuals do receive some benefit from altruism because they benefit from a society in which people are bonded by altruistic values. While the firefighter may die in a fire, he has spent his entire life living in a society where people would be willing to die in a fire for him, and sacrifice their own health and happiness for him in myriad uncountable ways.

Fake?

No, it is not fake.
Could I have chosen a more appropriate song1?

I find music distracting and that makes me cranky.

Is altruism an ethical imperative?

Yes. The benefits of altruism to your society can be identified, and as you gain much from those benefits you have an ethical responsibility to continue the cycle. If you live in a human society, you have benefitted from altruism and have an obligation to be altruistic in a responsible fashion.

Is altruism a moral imperative?

No. A person who is not altruistic is not evil, and could even be good. Altruism as an instinct has variable presentation and a lack of altruistic behavior may simply be a blindspot.

Additionally, if you can find a way of dealing with a situation that benefits both you and the person you are trying to help (which is therefore not altruism), then that is BETTER than altruism!

Any other thoughts on the topic ya want to share?

You know that little happy feeling you get when you help somebody? The one that cynics try to claim means that there is no such thing as altruism, and everybody who lends a hand is behaving in a selfish manner? That feeling is called empathy, and it is a good thing. Nurture it. Love it. Feel free to pat yourself on the back for it, because that feeling means that you are not a sociopath or an ****. Empathy is the feeling that allows us to live in organized societies. It's what separates us from the spiders. If you have an ounce of empathy in your body then altruism should make you feel good.

#4
EscherEnigma
May 20, 2010 13:23:06 Ah, comeon. With how close people got to talking about altruism itself, put it on the spotlight and almost no one wants to say a word and share their thoughts? Was it just too broad?
#5
pluisjen
May 20, 2010 13:53:37 Altruism is difficult. In the end, like most things, it is something we do because we believe it is the right thing to do. Some people care for those they know, some people care for everyone, and some people don't care at all.

I think whether something is altruistic, basically comes down to "how much do I care, compared to how much the giver of aid cares".

If I care only about family and friends, but someone is willing to risk his life for a stranger, then I consider him an altruist, because he helps someone that I would not have helped. But if I don't care about anyone other then myself, and someone helps his friend, then I would also consider him an Altruist, for he is helping someone I would not have helped.

We have all have a point where it goes from "you should help this person, because that's normal" (family, friends, colleagues, for example) to "you need not help this person, but if you do, that's altruism" (beggars, strangers that had an accident, people you hardly know)

In a city where everyone helps everyone, giving money to a beggar would be the norm, but to us it would be altruism. In a city where nobody helped anyone, helping your mother would be altruism, but to us it would be the norm.

So it's a very vague term, IMHO.

Lets see if this little spark ignites something, shall we?
#6
Garthanos
May 20, 2010 13:59:57 I found a wallet once with a few hundred dollars in ... I turned it in at the hotel desk I was being selfish... living in a world where we look out for one another even just a little makes "here" a better place I like living in that better place.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 EscherEnigma May 19, 2010 11:00:30	Ok, I don't have a simple question this time, so much as an open invitation to discuss the topic of altruism. To set the mood, I present No Good Deed, from Wicked [link]. Anyway. So, altruism. Are good deeds just a cry for attention? Is altruism a myth we tell ourselves? Is it real? Fake? Could I have chosen a more appropriate song1? Is altruism an ethical imperative? Is altruism a moral imperative? Any other thoughts on the topic ya want to share? So again, not really looking for anything specific this time, just thought it might be an interesting topic. ________ 1No, really, I want to know. That's just the song that jumped to my mind first, and I wonder if anyone has a better one.
#2 The_Silversword May 19, 2010 11:06:09	Oh jeeze man not another one!!
#3 lofgren May 19, 2010 11:18:02	Are good deeds just a cry for attention? By definition? Of course not. Haven't you ever heard of an anonymous donor? Is altruism a myth we tell ourselves? I don't even know what that means. Is it real? Depends on how you define it. Some people say that altruism means doing something good for somebody in return for no gain whatsoever for yourself. A more useful definition, however, is doing something that increases the fitness of another but decreases your own fitness. That is real. It happens literally every day. Organ donors prove it. Firefighters prove it. Soldiers prove it. However these individuals do receive some benefit from altruism because they benefit from a society in which people are bonded by altruistic values. While the firefighter may die in a fire, he has spent his entire life living in a society where people would be willing to die in a fire for him, and sacrifice their own health and happiness for him in myriad uncountable ways. Fake? No, it is not fake. Could I have chosen a more appropriate song1? I find music distracting and that makes me cranky. Is altruism an ethical imperative? Yes. The benefits of altruism to your society can be identified, and as you gain much from those benefits you have an ethical responsibility to continue the cycle. If you live in a human society, you have benefitted from altruism and have an obligation to be altruistic in a responsible fashion. Is altruism a moral imperative? No. A person who is not altruistic is not evil, and could even be good. Altruism as an instinct has variable presentation and a lack of altruistic behavior may simply be a blindspot. Additionally, if you can find a way of dealing with a situation that benefits both you and the person you are trying to help (which is therefore not altruism), then that is BETTER than altruism! Any other thoughts on the topic ya want to share? You know that little happy feeling you get when you help somebody? The one that cynics try to claim means that there is no such thing as altruism, and everybody who lends a hand is behaving in a selfish manner? That feeling is called empathy, and it is a good thing. Nurture it. Love it. Feel free to pat yourself on the back for it, because that feeling means that you are not a sociopath or an ****. Empathy is the feeling that allows us to live in organized societies. It's what separates us from the spiders. If you have an ounce of empathy in your body then altruism should make you feel good.
#4 EscherEnigma May 20, 2010 13:23:06	Ah, comeon. With how close people got to talking about altruism itself, put it on the spotlight and almost no one wants to say a word and share their thoughts? Was it just too broad?
#5 pluisjen May 20, 2010 13:53:37	Altruism is difficult. In the end, like most things, it is something we do because we believe it is the right thing to do. Some people care for those they know, some people care for everyone, and some people don't care at all. I think whether something is altruistic, basically comes down to "how much do I care, compared to how much the giver of aid cares". If I care only about family and friends, but someone is willing to risk his life for a stranger, then I consider him an altruist, because he helps someone that I would not have helped. But if I don't care about anyone other then myself, and someone helps his friend, then I would also consider him an Altruist, for he is helping someone I would not have helped. We have all have a point where it goes from "you should help this person, because that's normal" (family, friends, colleagues, for example) to "you need not help this person, but if you do, that's altruism" (beggars, strangers that had an accident, people you hardly know) In a city where everyone helps everyone, giving money to a beggar would be the norm, but to us it would be altruism. In a city where nobody helped anyone, helping your mother would be altruism, but to us it would be the norm. So it's a very vague term, IMHO. Lets see if this little spark ignites something, shall we?
#6 Garthanos May 20, 2010 13:59:57	I found a wallet once with a few hundred dollars in ... I turned it in at the hotel desk I was being selfish... living in a world where we look out for one another even just a little makes "here" a better place I like living in that better place.