Everyone hasn't made characters yet because they don't have the books. I offered to make a short adventure but I don't know what kind of campaign or even short adventure the players want to have. Plus, no one answered my e-mail when I offered to make characters for those that didn't have the books just for the quick run through to see if everyone likes 4th Edition.
I think we might have some disappointed players tonight unless we can make some quick characters and get a rough idea of an adventure relatively quickly afterward.
I'm really hoping tonight goes well but I'm starting to doubt myself.
Now on to the game play question.
I'm really confused on how saving throws work. What do you roll against for a saving throw? Meaning can someone point me to a page in the PHB or DMG that would have that information.
9 or lower you fail.
PHB pg 279
Saving Throws
When you’re under a persistent effect or condition
that can be ended by a save (“save ends”), you have
a chance to escape the effect each round at the end
of your turn. You do that by making a saving throw,
which is a d20 roll unmodified by your level or ability
modifiers. A successful saving throw is called a save.
SAVING THROWS
✦ End of Turn: At the end of your turn, you make a
saving throw against each effect on you that a save
can end. Roll a d20, with one of the following results:
Lower than 10: Failure. The effect continues.
10 or higher: Success. The effect ends.
✦ Choose Order: Whenever you make a saving throw,
you choose which effect to roll against first, which
effect to roll against second, and so on.
✦ Modifiers: A saving throw normally doesn’t include
modifiers; it’s just a d20 roll. Some powers, feats, or
racial traits might modify a saving throw.
A saving throw gives you slightly better than even
odds to shake off an effect. Most of the time, you can’t
improve the odds, and your chance of success doesn’t
have anything to do with an effect’s severity. What
makes a giant snake’s poison worse than a normal
snake’s is not how hard it is to shake off the poison’s
effects, but how easily it affects you in the first place (its
attack bonus) and what it does to you while it remains
in your system (its ongoing damage or other effect).
Each round, at the end of your turn, you roll a
saving throw against each effect on you. Sometimes
an effect is a single condition or one type of ongoing
damage (page 278). Another kind of effect is like an
imp’s hellish poison, which includes both ongoing
poison damage and a –2 penalty to Will defense. You
don’t make separate saving throws against the ongoing
poison damage and the Will defense penalty; you
make a single saving throw each round against the
hellish poison itself.
Some powers create effects that require multiple
saving throws to fully escape. These powers include
aftereffects that apply after you save against the initial
effect. For example, a power might knock you unconscious
until you save but have an aftereffect that slows
you. Once you save against the unconscious condition,
you need to save against the slowed condition before
you’ve fully escaped the power’s effects.
An aftereffect doesn’t begin until after you’ve
rolled all your saving throws at the end of your turn.
This means you can’t make a saving throw against an
aftereffect at the end of the same turn when you saved
against the initial effect.
When you’re under a persistent effect or condition
that can be ended by a save (“save ends”), you have
a chance to escape the effect each round at the end
of your turn. You do that by making a saving throw,
which is a d20 roll unmodified by your level or ability
modifiers. A successful saving throw is called a save.
SAVING THROWS
✦ End of Turn: At the end of your turn, you make a
saving throw against each effect on you that a save
can end. Roll a d20, with one of the following results:
Lower than 10: Failure. The effect continues.
10 or higher: Success. The effect ends.
✦ Choose Order: Whenever you make a saving throw,
you choose which effect to roll against first, which
effect to roll against second, and so on.
✦ Modifiers: A saving throw normally doesn’t include
modifiers; it’s just a d20 roll. Some powers, feats, or
racial traits might modify a saving throw.
A saving throw gives you slightly better than even
odds to shake off an effect. Most of the time, you can’t
improve the odds, and your chance of success doesn’t
have anything to do with an effect’s severity. What
makes a giant snake’s poison worse than a normal
snake’s is not how hard it is to shake off the poison’s
effects, but how easily it affects you in the first place (its
attack bonus) and what it does to you while it remains
in your system (its ongoing damage or other effect).
Each round, at the end of your turn, you roll a
saving throw against each effect on you. Sometimes
an effect is a single condition or one type of ongoing
damage (page 278). Another kind of effect is like an
imp’s hellish poison, which includes both ongoing
poison damage and a –2 penalty to Will defense. You
don’t make separate saving throws against the ongoing
poison damage and the Will defense penalty; you
make a single saving throw each round against the
hellish poison itself.
Some powers create effects that require multiple
saving throws to fully escape. These powers include
aftereffects that apply after you save against the initial
effect. For example, a power might knock you unconscious
until you save but have an aftereffect that slows
you. Once you save against the unconscious condition,
you need to save against the slowed condition before
you’ve fully escaped the power’s effects.
An aftereffect doesn’t begin until after you’ve
rolled all your saving throws at the end of your turn.
This means you can’t make a saving throw against an
aftereffect at the end of the same turn when you saved
against the initial effect.
I find that running modules is great when everyone is learning a new system, and especially when everyone's rusty. ;)
I second Modules when starting out. They really help knock the rust off, and get everyone used to the new game pretty quickly.
Okay, thanks. I haven't made it that far into the DMG yet so I didn't know they were there. Thanks a lot, really.
Yeah it's the last chapter. It's cool because not only is there a level one dungeon but there is also a very well fleshed out town the group can start in. If you want to still DM after that you can move onto Keep on the Shadowfell.
Just played the game. Well it was just a single encounter from the Kobold Hall adventure in the back DMG, but it was so damn cool. We're gonna roll with 4E and play a mod for the next few games.
Tonight was just a run through and it was really cool. Someone else is going to be the DM but I have been designated as the "Rules Lawyer", which is funny considering I don't know the rules very well, lol.
My wife had some pretty crappy rolls tonight but she had fun anyway. Actually we all had some bad rolls and we didn't score a crit until the very end of the encounter when the fighter crushed a kobold with his maul. Man that was funny.
This game is too cool for words and I will never again listen to those who demonize 4th Edition. 'Nuff said.
I had the same reaction when I ran my first 4E game too.
I love $E, heh, whoops, I mean 4E, too! (that was just a harmless joke. Please don't kill me)
Is this the same group that never uses encounter/daily powers?
Did anyone play a Swordmage?
I thought that KoTS only got hard when you got INTO the keep.
Is this the same group that never uses encounter/daily powers?
For the most part it is the same group. While in the keep I started running splug for myself and there were 3 others left in the group. (a few players had to leave for personal reasons) With the group at 4 characters we slaughtered things left and right without me needing to adjust a darn encounter.
Oh it was so cool when my Misty Step took effect and I teleported to a flanking position on one of the kobolds with the fighter, saving his butt.
This was just too cool.
He saved the party from a Devil that was about to TPK us.
Yeah, the Star'lock pact boons ROCKS.
Now I'll have to try a Fey'lock, though, since it seems to have performed so well.
I chose human for my race so I used the extra At-will to take Dire Radiance but when I tried to use it I missed so it kind of sucked. I never got to use my Daily Dread Star which I stole from the Starlock because I didn't have line of site on the monsters toward the end because of the move I made to flank the kobold harassing our fighter.
All in all, the feylock performed as I expected and it rocked.
Dire Radiance always worked wonderfully for me.
Maybe the spell hates you. It hates you dead.
Meh, I like Rageblood Barbarians more than Warlocks anyhow.
I've been wanting to play a feylock since the game first came out. All the free movement really caught my eye. The spells for the feylock are kind of lackluster but you don't have to pick them.
I chose human for my race so I used the extra At-will to take Dire Radiance but when I tried to use it I missed so it kind of sucked. I never got to use my Daily Dread Star which I stole from the Starlock because I didn't have line of site on the monsters toward the end because of the move I made to flank the kobold harassing our fighter.
All in all, the feylock performed as I expected and it rocked.
I like Dire Radiance because it is good against undead which is likely about a quarter to half the kind of monsters that adventurers will fight.
A tip: Try to save daily powers for enemies that you think are elites or solos, or if the group gets into a really sticky situation. At the end of Kobold Hall there is a solo monster so it might be best to hold onto the daily as long as possible. Your encounters you should be trying to use all of them each encounter. You will get them back with a short rest so you might as well use them all up.
I like Dire Radiance because it is good against undead which is likely about a quarter to half the kind of monsters that adventurers will fight.
A tip: Try to save daily powers for enemies that you think are elites or solos, or if the group gets into a really sticky situation. At the end of Kobold Hall there is a solo monster so it might be best to hold onto the daily as long as possible. Your encounters you should be trying to use all of them each encounter. You will get them back with a short rest so you might as well use them all up.
Yeah, I knew that. But we were only playing one encounter to see how it went and so I wanted to see what it could do. Oh well, for the next game it is on.
The trick to Starlocks is choosing either Con/Cha, not both, although using both can work.
I wanted a highish Con score for the extra hit points because I thought I was going to have to pull triple duty as a defender/striker/controler with my character because everyone was so unfamiliar with the game.
Thankfully I didn't but it was cool that I could have.
Yeah, I knew that. But we were only playing one encounter to see how it went and so I wanted to see what it could do. Oh well, for the next game it is on.
If it was an only 1 encounter thing without going any further than you should have used your daily right out of the starting gate. Everyone would have thought you were all bad ass and everything.
If it was an only 1 encounter thing without going any further than you should have used your daily right out of the starting gate. Everyone would have thought you were all bad ass and everything.
I thought about it, but I wasn't sure if we were going to go to the next encounter or not so I saved it just in case. Then when I was sure we weren't going any further I was out of position to use it.
Keep in mind, combat in this edition will take a while until you get the hang of it.
Good luck with your continuing campaign. My DM recently ran me through a session, since I haven't played D&D in about 5-6 years. I'm really excited to see what this edition has to offer.
Keep in mind, combat in this edition will take a while until you get the hang of it.
My wife and the others got really confused about what abilities they could use. I got confused myself when I missed with my Witchfire. I wasn't sure if missing made me waste it or not. I just assumed it did and went on but everyone was confused about it.
It was still really cool when our fighter rolled a crit when he used his Daily and did something like 50 damage with his maul.
My wife and the others got really confused about what abilities they could use. I got confused myself when I missed with my Witchfire. I wasn't sure if missing made me waste it or not. I just assumed it did and went on but everyone was confused about it.
If you miss with an encounter or daily power then it is expended unless the power has the reliable key word.
If you miss with an encounter or daily power then it is expended unless the power has the reliable key word.
That's what I thought. I guess that's why the DM designated me the "Rules Lawyer" to help him run the game.
Fortunately we've got three rules guys in the group. Myself and two others.
Yeah, unless it's reliable it's expended.
Kobold Hall is pretty fun it can be tough though later on.
I wanted a highish Con score for the extra hit points because I thought I was going to have to pull triple duty as a defender/striker/controler with my character because everyone was so unfamiliar with the game.
Thankfully I didn't but it was cool that I could have.
There's a background somewhere (FR, Dragon?) that helps you avoid needing to spend a ton more points than you want to with Con. It's called Auspicious Birth and it lets you use the stat of your choice to calculate your HP. My new Druid took it, actually (I chose Wis. Duh! :P). The thing that's nice about it is that it is a background so it doen't take a feat slot. The bad thing is that it doesn't do anything for your surges (or your Fort NAD). They still work off of your Con (or STR for the NAD, of course) bonus. With a character that you don't think is going to get beat up too much (range based dood), it's not that much to fret over. My Druid, otoh, is going to be melee based. So I took Durable to get the best of both. Just something to think about. It's a nice li'l trick to help you get the stats you want. :D
There's a background somewhere (FR, Dragon?) that helps you avoid needing to spend a ton more points than you want to with Con. It's called Auspicious Birth and it lets you use the stat of your choice to calculate your HP. My new Druid took it, actually (I chose Wis. Duh! :P). The thing that's nice about it is that it is a background so it doen't take a feat slot. The bad thing is that it doesn't do anything for your surges (or your Fort NAD). They still work off of your Con (or STR for the NAD, of course) bonus. With a character that you don't think is going to get beat up too much (range based dood), it's not that much to fret over. My Druid, otoh, is going to be melee based. So I took Durable to get the best of both. Just something to think about. It's a nice li'l trick to help you get the stats you want. :D
I haven't paid for a subscription to DDI and haven't bought the FR books yet. I will definitely look into it. But having the high Con and Cha and being a warlock was just too good to pass up when I considered the increased versatility in spell choice.
I know my character wasn't maximized but I'm not what some people would call a power gamer so it was cool. I like to let the dice play me and not play the dice to a certain degree. It makes getting lucky that much more important to me. At the same time it gave a +3 to attack with any spell I chose which was really cool and allowed for some power game stuff.
My low Intelligence score kept me from getting the special benefits some spells got from my choice of pact but it still worked out. All in all, I think I came up with a relatively powerful character that was really manueverable.
I am very satisfied with the game simply because I didn't set out to make a really powerful character but I came out with one anyway. It is testimony to how easy character building for 4th Edition is.
I'm dissapointed, Idolis. This topic appears to be ON TOPIC!!
Yeah, aint it cool.
I haven't paid for a subscription to DDI and haven't bought the FR books yet. I will definitely look into it. But having the high Con and Cha and being a warlock was just too good to pass up when I considered the increased versatility in spell choice.
I know my character wasn't maximized but I'm not what some people would call a power gamer so it was cool. I like to let the dice play me and not play the dice to a certain degree. It makes getting lucky that much more important to me. At the same time it gave a +3 to attack with any spell I chose which was really cool and allowed for some power game stuff.
My low Intelligence score kept me from getting the special benefits some spells got from my choice of pact but it still worked out. All in all, I think I came up with a relatively powerful character that was really manueverable.
I am very satisfied with the game simply because I didn't set out to make a really powerful character but I came out with one anyway. It is testimony to how easy character building for 4th Edition is.
Yeah, if you've got a class that makes good use of Con, you can't go wrong actually pumpin' it up. :D I just brought it up cuz I thought you may find it interesting to use later or to tell a pal about. I don't have DDI, either, but my pals do. So I get all the goodies for free. ;) After seeing the sheer awesomness that is the Character Builder (my DM puts all my info into it and prints me a new sheet every level), I may have to subscribe. It really is cool!
Oh! If you've got the PH2, check out Implement Mastery. It'll give you a +1 At with Implement powers for the low, low cost of one feat. Totally worth it, IMO and IME.
You started with two 16s, right? You should be fine with that. I prefer an 18 in my main stat, but I've heard you don't need it. Now with stuff like Implement Mastery, this has to be even more true. ;)
Apparently Arcane Power has some cool 'Lock stuff in it. Might be worth checkin' out for this char.
Yeah, if you've got a class that makes good use of Con, you can't go wrong actually pumpin' it up. :D I just brought it up cuz I thought you may find it interesting to use later or to tell a pal about. I don't have DDI, either, but my pals do. So I get all the goodies for free. ;) After seeing the sheer awesomness that is the Character Builder (my DM puts all my info into it and prints me a new sheet every level), I may have to subscribe. It really is cool!
Oh! If you've got the PH2, check out Implement Mastery. It'll give you a +1 At with Implement powers for the low, low cost of one feat. Totally worth it, IMO and IME.
You started with two 16s, right? You should be fine with that. I prefer an 18 in my main stat, but I've heard you don't need it. Now with stuff like Implement Mastery, this has to be even more true. ;)
Apparently Arcane Power has some cool 'Lock stuff in it. Might be worth checkin' out for this char.
I have the PHB2 but haven't really read it yet outside of checking out the Bard and Barbarian. I have to check out Implement mastery. A +1 sounds really cool.
I should probably do something about my wife's character too. I need to check Martial Power and see if their is anything I can do to make her more accurate, as in some pluses to attack. She is a ranger and took Lethal Hunter for the 1d8 to Hunter's Quarry but if she can't hit it doesn't do any good. She wanted an archery build so we went with a high dexterity but an attack mod would be really cool.
Is their something like that in Martial Power?
I have the PHB2 but haven't really read it yet outside of checking out the Bard and Barbarian. I have to check out Implement mastery. A +1 sounds really cool.
I should probably do something about my wife's character too. I need to check Martial Power and see if their is anything I can do to make her more accurate, as in some pluses to attack. She is a ranger and took Lethal Hunter for the 1d8 to Hunter's Quarry but if she can't hit it doesn't do any good. She wanted an archery build so we went with a high dexterity but an attack mod would be really cool.
Is their something like that in Martial Power?
Actually, it's also in the PH2. It's called Weapon Mastery or something similar and it does the same thing. A +1 to hit for all attacks with the weapon keyword, IIRC. Check it out. They work well to make the players more balanced against the monsters. Monsters have awesome attack powers, great to-hit and Def, too. This extra +1 is nice. I can't see any character I make from now on not taking whichever one applies.
Martial Power may not have the Attack boost you're lookin' for (cuz that's in the PH2 ;)), but it does have some cool powers and alternate builds like the Beastmaster Ranger. I'd definitely check it out and see if she finds something there that feels cooler than what she's already got. The cool thing is, even if the DM won't allow you to respec after finding new stuff, the game has a built in retraining policy. :D
EDIT: Just remembered another PH2 feat that may or may not come in handy for you. If you have a couple of melee guys that like to flank with each other, check out Distant Advantage. It grants you combat advantage with ranged powers against a target that's flanked by your allies. It was the last feat I took with my Sorcling. Never got to test it, though, cuz I changed to the Druid. My buddy was going to change his Avenger to a Warlock when he got Arcane Power so we'd only have one melee dood. Kind of made that feat choice silly. And kind of made us a bit too range focused. :P But I was bored with the Sorc anyway and wanted to try the Druid. Win-win. :D
Actually, it's also in the PH2. It's called Weapon Mastery or something similar and it does the same thing. A +1 to hit for all attacks with the weapon keyword, IIRC. Check it out. They work well to make the players more balanced against the monsters. Monsters have awesome attack powers, great to-hit and Def, too. This extra +1 is nice. I can't see any character I make from now on not taking whichever one applies.
Martial Power may not have the Attack boost you're lookin' for (cuz that's in the PH2 ;)), but it does have some cool powers and alternate builds like the Beastmaster Ranger. I'd definitely check it out and see if she finds something there that feels cooler than what she's already got. The cool thing is, even if the DM won't allow you to respec after finding new stuff, the game has a built in retraining policy. :D
I don't think they will have a problem with changing our feats. The guys mostly used pregen characters and I don't know if they intend to use those same characters again. I will ask first but I don't think they will have a problem with it.
It was really cool how she got into it last night. She told me she had a friend give her a little grief about joining the game. Something about it being silly or something and it made her nervous but the DM was really cool and she got into it relatively quickly. I will have to work with her a little bit because I meant to make her power cards but I forgot to so the use of powers was really confusing to her. She came away, despite this, really psyched for the next game.
I don't think they will have a problem with changing our feats. The guys mostly used pregen characters and I don't know if they intend to use those same characters again. I will ask first but I don't think they will have a problem with it.
It was really cool how she got into it last night. She told me she had a friend give her a little grief about joining the game. Something about it being silly or something and it made her nervous but the DM was really cool and she got into it relatively quickly. I will have to work with her a little bit because I meant to make her power cards but I forgot to so the use of powers was really confusing to her. She came away, despite this, really psyched for the next game.
Success!! :D Always like to hear a story of a convert! I'm glad she's psyched.
Success!! :D Always like to hear a story of a convert! I'm glad she's psyched.
Yep. It was totally awesome. She just went with it. She was worried about talking in character and all that but when I explained it was something like when she was a kid and she played house with her friends she was like, "Ooooooh, I can do that."
She was even disappointed because basically all we did last night was check out how combat works.
I don't think they will have a problem with changing our feats. The guys mostly used pregen characters and I don't know if they intend to use those same characters again. I will ask first but I don't think they will have a problem with it.
It was really cool how she got into it last night. She told me she had a friend give her a little grief about joining the game. Something about it being silly or something and it made her nervous but the DM was really cool and she got into it relatively quickly. I will have to work with her a little bit because I meant to make her power cards but I forgot to so the use of powers was really confusing to her. She came away, despite this, really psyched for the next game.
Cool. :D
That's why I like the character builder so much. If you've got that and a color printer, you get a sheet that's incredibly easy to read and use - complete with power and item write ups so you don't need to fumble through all of your books. I was a bit doubtful about its utility until I saw it myself. The only thing keeping me from getting a subscription is that two of my friends already have one and are willing to tell us about the cool Dragon stuff and print off sheets for us.
Try to check out the powers from Martial Power and the feats from PH2. MP has some really cool stuff for melee characters and the feats from PH2 are ... well ... actually good. ;) PH1 feats are mostly "meh", IMO. With my Wizzie, I wished I could just opt not to take any. Once I got PH2, though, I wish I could take more! Hell, it's part of the reason my Druid is a Human and not an Elf. ;) Extra feat ftw! (That +1 to all NADs, extra skill and extra At-Will ('specially as a Druid - now I have 4 AWs) helped some, too ;)) :D
Cool. :D
That's why I like the character builder so much. If you've got that and a color printer, you get a sheet that's incredibly easy to read and use - complete with power and item write ups so you don't need to fumble through all of your books. I was a bit doubtful about its utility until I saw it myself. The only thing keeping me from getting a subscription is that two of my friends already have one and are willing to tell us about the cool Dragon stuff and print off sheets for us.
Try to check out the powers from Martial Power and the feats from PH2. MP has some really cool stuff for melee characters and the feats from PH2 are ... well ... actually good. ;) PH1 feats are mostly "meh", IMO. With my Wizzie, I wished I could just opt not to take any. Once I got PH2, though, I wish I could take more! Hell, it's part of the reason my Druid is a Human and not an Elf. ;) Extra feat ftw! (That +1 to all NADs, extra skill and extra At-Will ('specially as a Druid - now I have 4 AWs) helped some, too ;)) :D
Yeah, we both chose human for our characters for that reason. In fact, I think everyone chose human. I was thinking about getting a subscription just for the Dragon articles but now I just have to check it out.
Yeah, we both chose human for our characters for that reason. In fact, I think everyone chose human. I was thinking about getting a subscription just for the Dragon articles but now I just have to check it out.
Yeah, it's cool. I really like the sheets. And Dragon comes up with some neat - and powerful - stuff.
I typically don't pick humans. It's easier to have balanced stats with a +2 to two race. And some have cool racial abilities (Dwarf, Eladrin, Elf ...). For this character, it worked well enough. An Elf would have had 8 movement and ignored difficult terrain, though, and Elven Accuracy is pretty sweet. But for whatever reason, this guy felt Human. I made him a member of a Barbarian clan from the Moonshaes (we play RPGA LFR). It just felt right. And he's not a pansy Elf. ;) :P
Oh well, I've been wanting a new one anyway.
My favorite class/race combo is prolly Human Swordmages.
I like humans because they're adaptable, both in RP and mechanics.
I dislike how most of the other races (elves dwarves, ect) are either the stereotype or rebel against it. Humans don't tend to have stereotypes, really.
Which makes 'em more fun, IMO.