So how will the world end? Great earthquakes will shake the Earth at 6 p.m. local time (and continue through Oct. 21), and believers will be called to the heavens, Camping has been saying on his radio program, and the unrepentant will be thrown to the ground and shamed.
lol This guy was on one of our local radio stations and one of the attorneys I work with heard him. The host asked him what time the world would end and he said 6pm. The host then asked him in what time zone, and the guy was at a loss for words. He just stammered "Uh, um" and the like. Apparently the question caused him to fix his problem 
Awww.
Why can't I get a death cult? Why is it so hard for me to get followers?
it doesn't help if they prefer the end of the world over following you ... :p
I've been seeing these things hanging here for quite a while now. Well at least my girlfriend and I will be having our babyshower then, so if the world ends at least we'll have fun while it does
Babyshower? Congrats man! Your first?
Hopefully we can convince some of our guests to help paint the babyroom, it's going to turn out quite awesome I think
It'll turn out very fantasy."But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only."
Call me when it actually happens. I'd love to watch the current crop of politicians get thrown to their special circle of Hell, so don't get my hopes up until then.
Wait that means I only have ten days to enjoy my firebird
To be honest, the thing I think that is really scary is that 41 percent of Americans think jesus will come to earth by 2050.
So how will the world end? Great earthquakes will shake the Earth at 6 p.m. local time (and continue through Oct. 21), and believers will be called to the heavens, Camping has been saying on his radio program, and the unrepentant will be thrown to the ground and shamed.
lol This guy was on one of our local radio stations and one of the attorneys I work with heard him. The host asked him what time the world would end and he said 6pm. The host then asked him in what time zone, and the guy was at a loss for words. He just stammered "Uh, um" and the like. Apparently the question caused him to fix his problem
6pm local for him? For whoever it is? Is it gonna happen at 6pm in Ohio and 6pm in Colorado? What happens at 6pm in Japan? I r confuzzled.
I like how two morons threw away hospital internships to go and spread the word. Doctors like that are doctors we don't need. So, I guess some good came of this idiot's blatherings after all.
So how will the world end? Great earthquakes will shake the Earth at 6 p.m. local time (and continue through Oct. 21), and believers will be called to the heavens, Camping has been saying on his radio program, and the unrepentant will be thrown to the ground and shamed.
lol This guy was on one of our local radio stations and one of the attorneys I work with heard him. The host asked him what time the world would end and he said 6pm. The host then asked him in what time zone, and the guy was at a loss for words. He just stammered "Uh, um" and the like. Apparently the question caused him to fix his problem
6pm local for him? For whoever it is? Is it gonna happen at 6pm in Ohio and 6pm in Colorado? What happens at 6pm in Japan? I r confuzzled.
I like how two morons threw away hospital internships to go and spread the word. Doctors like that are doctors we don't need. So, I guess some good came of this idiot's blatherings after all.
It's the true 6 PM time. Unfortunately you aren't one of the "chosen" so you won't know exactly what time it is. It'll be like a surprise death.
It's the true 6 PM time. Unfortunately you aren't one of the "chosen" so you won't know exactly what time it is. It'll be like a surprise death.
Sweet. I hope it happens when I'm in the middle of something really awkward and yet something I can talk about. You know, like crankin' it while lookin' into some veterinary hospital's window or somethin'. That way I'll have a killer story to tell ... for eternity.
Damn! Just realized that I'd never be able to tell that story. Cuz I'd be one of them people all of those nice Christian folk would walk past and shame while I was down. Like the good people they are.
Pluisjen, congrats on the new baby! Here's hoping for good health, 10 fingers and 10 toes and all that!
The guy really needs to read the Bible: But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. Matthew 24:36 The people who follow Camping are real idiots.
Must......resist..........
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couldn't do it.
Hmm ... this thread title is now obsolete. It's ... it's starting early!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11
Acually, we're all dead. Your personal hell is having to go to work and getting stuck behind the slow moving cars.
news.gather.com/viewArticle.action?artic...
I wonder if they are giving any refunds.
But no one has yet to refute it. The best that jetshield can do is laugh at me, but only because he can't really do anything else.
Again, Camping and his followers are idiots who don't know the Bible from a hole in the ground. They're like Andre Crouch and his morons who, IIRC, made the claims that their preaching on the television would raise the dead. When I heard that, I couldn't help but think, "Have these people not seen Night of the Living Dead?!?!"
You really want to know what Christianity is about, read the Bible. Read Jesus' words, read about His actions.
You really want to know what Christianity is about, read the Bible. Read Jesus' words, read about His actions.
You will, however, be woefully ignorant of what Christians are about.
The best that jetshield can do is laugh at me, but only because he can't really do anything else.
You mean it wasn't a joke? You weren't trying to be funny? You're honestly oblivious to the hypocracy of your statement?
Now I'm not laughing. I'm crying inside.
The King James Bible, just so you know.
But no one has yet to refute it. The best that jetshield can do is laugh at me, but only because he can't really do anything else.
Again, Camping and his followers are idiots who don't know the Bible from a hole in the ground. They're like Andre Crouch and his morons who, IIRC, made the claims that their preaching on the television would raise the dead. When I heard that, I couldn't help but think, "Have these people not seen Night of the Living Dead?!?!"
You really want to know what Christianity is about, read the Bible. Read Jesus' words, read about His actions.
King James changed a lot, so it's not really possible to read the King James Bible and be sure of what anyone said, let alone Jesus.
Acually, we're all dead. Your personal hell is having to go to work and getting stuck behind the slow moving cars.
NOoooooOOOooooooooo! Can you off yerself if you're already dead?!?!
You will, however, be woefully ignorant of what Christians are about.
True. Christians are quite likely the least Christian people on the planet.
True. Christians are quite likely the least Christian people on the planet.
How do you define Christian?
The Bible defines it as someone who follows the words and actions of Jesus Christ, and does their best to emulate Him. No one is perfect, though, and there will be times when Christians will slip up.
But, there are also a good number of false Christians around, as well as apostates and wolves in sheeps clothing, who will seek to take as many people to Hell with them as possible. There are those who honestly think that they can earn God's favor by bringing harm to the unsaved. It is to those people that God will say, "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels" (Matthew 25:41b).
Jetshield, I pointed out the error of Camping and his group. How is that hypocrisy?
Because obviously people who are Christians would be the most Christian people on the planet, by definition.
How do you define Christian?
"One who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ."
How do you define Christian?
"One who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ."
Very good.
Now, since Camping believes that Jesus will return on May 21(?), and that statement is contrary to the words of Jesus in Matthew 24:36, as well as other places, can Camping be believed to be a Christian? The logical answer is No.
The same goes for Freddy Phelps and his ilk, who proclaim "God Hates ****". Any serious study of the Bible, esp Jesus' words and deeds, will demonstrate that God loves all people, and demonstrated that love by sending Jesus to die an agonizing death on a cross as an appropriation for our sin, so that we might have life with Him, then resurrected Him as His affirmation of His ultimate authority over life and death.
Jetshield, I pointed out the error of Camping and his group. How is that hypocrisy?
I apologize. I misremembered what you posted. I have gone back, and re-read your post. It was not hypocrisy. It was bigotry.
For the record, you didn't point out the "error of Camping and his group". You just called them "idiots" because they don't share your beliefs. You have shown no evidence that they are wrong. You can not know they are wrong with certainty until May 22nd. You can assume they are wrong. You can believe they are wrong. You cannot prove they are wrong until then.
Jetshield, I pointed out the error of Camping and his group. How is that hypocrisy?
I apologize. I misremembered what you posted. I have gone back, and re-read your post. It was not hypocrisy. It was bigotry.
For the record, you didn't point out the "error of Camping and his group". You just called them "idiots" because they don't share your beliefs. You have shown no evidence that they are wrong. You can not know they are wrong with certainty until May 22nd. You can assume they are wrong. You can believe they are wrong. You cannot prove they are wrong until then.
Good grief, you are blind. I pointed out the Scripture, and you ignore it. Willfully.
Troll.
Any serious study of the Bible, esp Jesus' words and deeds, will demonstrate that God loves all people
"And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them." Jeremiah 13:14
Good grief, you are blind. I pointed out the Scripture, and you ignore it. Willfully.
Troll.
Scripture is not evidence. It is a foundation of belief, and can be interpreted many ways.
Personal attacks? Good job.
Now, since Camping believes that Jesus will return on May 21(?), and that statement is contrary to the words of Jesus in Matthew 24:36, as well as other places, can Camping be believed to be a Christian? The logical answer is No.
The logical answer is yes, as long as they profess belief in the teaching of Jesus Christ, they are Christians. They probably have a different version of the book then you do or otherwise do not believe this particular line to be considered a teaching of Jesus Christ.
Since he's not around anymore and the original copies are probably lost to time, all both sides have to go on are translated copies of ancient scripture.
Any serious study of the Bible, esp Jesus' words and deeds, will demonstrate that God loves all people
"And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them." Jeremiah 13:14
Let's look at that in context, shall we?
1Thus saith the LORD unto me, Go and get thee a linen girdle, and put it upon thy loins, and put it not in water.
2So I got a girdle according to the word of the LORD, and put it on my loins.
3And the word of the LORD came unto me the second time, saying,
4Take the girdle that thou hast got, which is upon thy loins, and arise, go to Euphrates, and hide it there in a hole of the rock.
5So I went, and hid it by Euphrates, as the LORD commanded me.
6And it came to pass after many days, that the LORD said unto me, Arise, go to Euphrates, and take the girdle from thence, which I commanded thee to hide there.
7Then I went to Euphrates, and digged, and took the girdle from the place where I had hid it: and, behold, the girdle was marred, it was profitable for nothing.
8Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
9Thus saith the LORD, After this manner will I mar the pride of Judah, and the great pride of Jerusalem.
10This evil people, which refuse to hear my words, which walk in the imagination of their heart, and walk after other gods, to serve them, and to worship them, shall even be as this girdle, which is good for nothing.
11For as the girdle cleaveth to the loins of a man, so have I caused to cleave unto me the whole house of Israel and the whole house of Judah, saith the LORD; that they might be unto me for a people, and for a name, and for a praise, and for a glory: but they would not hear.
12Therefore thou shalt speak unto them this word; Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Every bottle shall be filled with wine: and they shall say unto thee, Do we not certainly know that every bottle shall be filled with wine?
13Then shalt thou say unto them, Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will fill all the inhabitants of this land, even the kings that sit upon David's throne, and the priests, and the prophets, and all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, with drunkenness.
14And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.
I know that people like you want to paint God as someone who destroys people willy-nilly, except for His own people, but that is just not the case. More often than not, His judgment comes down harshest on those who claim to be His own, but have let their pride puff them up like a balloon, and need to be chastened. Yeah, read the passage again, God is talking about the Israelites.
Sorry, but your selective reading of Scripture is no different than Freddy Phelps'.
In what way does destroying anyone without mercy or pity equate to loving all people? If a parent beats their child to death, do you think that parent is a good person as long as they say they did it out of love? What sort of sick, twisted morality do you follow?
You need to read the Bible and find out what they did.
If you want to discuss twisted morality, the Canaanites of the era had a habit of sacrificing their first-born sons to Baal by burning alive. The priests of Baal assured the parents that if they could watch the burning of their child without shedding a single tear, their businesses would be prosperous beyond their hopes. This was not abortion, where the mother is knocked unconcious while the abortionist tears the child out of the mother's womb; this was outright murder, watching your screaming infant son burn on a metal grate in the midst of flames.
This was the kind of **** that God specifically forbade, and in all likelyhood, this was what was being practiced in Jeremiah's time, amongst other things that were forbidden by God. Again, read the Bible and find out why it happened.
2 Then the LORD said to Joshua, “See, I have delivered Jericho into your hands, along with its king and its fighting men. 3 March around the city once with all the armed men. Do this for six days. 4 Have seven priests carry trumpets of rams’ horns in front of the ark. On the seventh day, march around the city seven times, with the priests blowing the trumpets. 5 When you hear them sound a long blast on the trumpets, have the whole army give a loud shout; then the wall of the city will collapse and the army will go up, everyone straight in.”
...
20 When the trumpets sounded, the army shouted, and at the sound of the trumpet, when the men gave a loud shout, the wall collapsed; so everyone charged straight in, and they took the city. 21 They devoted the city to the LORD and destroyed with the sword every living thing in it—men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep and donkeys.
And what did the children, cows, sheep, and donkeys of Jericho do to deserve death by the sword at God's command?
I can do this all day, but it only feeds the troll.
Now, since Camping believes that Jesus will return on May 21(?), and that statement is contrary to the words of Jesus in Matthew 24:36, as well as other places, can Camping be believed to be a Christian? The logical answer is No.
Incorrect. One must profess belief, not be informed on the tenants of their own religion or follow said tenants.
Now, since Camping believes that Jesus will return on May 21(?), and that statement is contrary to the words of Jesus in Matthew 24:36, as well as other places, can Camping be believed to be a Christian? The logical answer is No.
Incorrect. One must profess belief, not be informed on the tenants of their own religion or follow said tenants.
How can one profess belief if one is not informed on the tenants of their religion or follow said tenants?
Things like "being a stumbling block and swaying them to their gods" are the kind of thing that billions of people today are doing. I certainly hope that god does not decide that all non-christians need to be purged as well. Actually, I'm pretty sure there are some christians around there who do believe that, most likely inspired by passages like that.
Also,
profess
1 claim that one has (a quality or feeling).
How can one profess belief if one is not informed on the tenants of their religion or follow said tenants?
I fully believe in alcohol and enjoy getting drunk, but I have no idea how to brew it. Religion is somewhat similar.
Pretty simple concept when you look at it like that. And didn't he also have David massacre an assload of people? I may be misremembering ...
You will, however, be woefully ignorant of what Christians are about.
True. Christians are quite likely the least Christian people on the planet.
Sadly, this.
How can one profess belief if one is not informed on the tenants of their religion or follow said tenants?
Easy. With religion belief comes first, knowledge later (if at all). That's why it's called "belief" and not "knowing".
And didn't he also have David massacre an assload of people?
I think you're referring to 1 Chronicles 21 where David ordered a census of Israel. He was allowed to choose between 3 punishments; 3 years of famine, 3 months of losing battles against his enemies ("three months to be destroyed before thy foes, while that the sword of thine enemies overtaketh thee"), or 3 days of pestilence ("three days the sword of the LORD, even the pestilence, in the land, and the angel of the LORD destroying throughout all the coasts of Israel"). He chose to rely on God's mercy, and picked the pestilence.
The result:
"So the LORD sent pestilence upon Israel: and there fell of Israel seventy thousand men." 1 Chronicles 21:14
David, by the way, wasn't one of the 70,000 that died.
How can one profess belief if one is not informed on the tenants of their religion or follow said tenants?
Easy. With religion belief comes first, knowledge later (if at all). That's why it's called "belief" and not "knowing".
Sorry, but that just doesn't wash. You have to know what it is that you believe. You cannot say, I am a Christian without knowing the teachings of Jesus Christ any more than you can say, I am a Buddhist without knowing the teachings of Buddha.
If you came to my preacher, claiming to be a Christian, and started spouting off what Camping or Freddy is currently spouting off, he would correct you by showing you the same Scriptures that I showed you, plus more that I haven't thought of.
I like you, EE; you're smarter than most of the other folk here, but your sig line is really showing.
Now, if you want, you can say that a person really has to have a firm understanding of the ins and outs of their religion before they can be a member of that religion, but I'm not going to be the one that tells parents that their dead five year old is going to hell because they weren't a real Christian. For that matter, you think that most Christians understand the sophistry that Aquinieas1 had to jump through to find a way for dead babies not to go to hell?
So you think I'm being unreasonable in saying that Christians don't have to understand very much about Christ to be Christian? Well I say you only have Christians to blame for that, because it's by the standards of Christians that I judge them.
________
1I think it was Aquineas that tried to lay that one to rest, but I'm not sure. Either way, the whole "where do the souls of dead babies go" is a fun question that, to get to an answer that's palatable to most people you really do have to ignore the bible.
Sorry, but that just doesn't wash. You have to know what it is that you believe. You cannot say, I am a Christian without knowing the teachings of Jesus Christ any more than you can say, I am a Buddhist without knowing the teachings of Buddha.
If you came to my preacher, claiming to be a Christian, and started spouting off what Camping or Freddy is currently spouting off, he would correct you by showing you the same Scriptures that I showed you, plus more that I haven't thought of.
I like you, EE; you're smarter than most of the other folk here, but your sig line is really showing.
Of curiousity, is there anything in Scripture which requires (or suggests) that a Christian should study Scripture?
(note: no snarkiness intended whatsoever, I am genuinely curious)
And yet how many Christians, do you think, know a whit about Leviticus beyond the sex stuff? How many Christians know that the bible says you should stone backmouthing kids to death? How many ostracize menstruating women for a week because they're "unclean"? Fact is that most Christians get by with very little knowledge of their religion.
Now, if you want, you can say that a person really has to have a firm understanding of the ins and outs of their religion before they can be a member of that religion, but I'm not going to be the one that tells parents that their dead five year old is going to hell because they weren't a real Christian. For that matter, you think that most Christians understand the sophistry that Aquinieas1 had to jump through to find a way for dead babies not to go to hell?
So you think I'm being unreasonable in saying that Christians don't have to understand very much about Christ to be Christian? Well I say you only have Christians to blame for that, because it's by the standards of Christians that I judge them.
________
1I think it was Aquineas that tried to lay that one to rest, but I'm not sure. Either way, the whole "where do the souls of dead babies go" is a fun question that, to get to an answer that's palatable to most people you really do have to ignore the bible.
Nor am I going to be the one who tells a parent of an infant who died of crib-death that their child is in Hell. There is a concept known as the age of accountability: It states that a young child, who is unable to know the difference between good and evil, is covered by default by the blood of Christ. It is generally accepted that by 12 or 13, a child then knows enough between good and evil to make moral choices, although it can happen much earlier, depending on circumstances. Romans 1:18 states, "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness"; God's wrath is reserved for those who have rejected His love and His law. A child, not knowing God's law, the definer of good and evil, is therefor not subject to it until such time as he is able to understand it and then accept it or reject it, verified by Romans 5:13 and Romans 7:7.
Here's another point: The laws of Deuteronomy that you like to castigate Christians over are covered by the redemptive blood of Christ. Jesus said, "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." Matthew 5:17 & 18, emphasis mine). Jesus' death on the cross was the ultimate fulfillment of the law; every single Passover lamb that was slaughtered was a marker pointing to the death of Jesus. It is HIS blood that covers my sins, and the sins of everyone who accepts His appropriation. That includes children who have no knowledge of the difference between good and evil. Just as importantly, it is His resurrection that fully demonstrates His triumph over death, not just for Himself, but for all who accept Him.
Because of His fulfillment of the Law, we are no longer subject to the Law. Do we then have leave to indulge in sin? No. Rather, Christians are to live moral lives as a witness to others about the power of God to save us from sin, to live moral lives as a response to the saving grace of a loving God, who did not spare His only begotten Son. Romans chapters 5 through 7.
You are right to have problems with Christians who have strange practices. Some of them are wayward and backslidden; some simply call themselves Christians because they were raised in a Christian household, but never accepted Christ; and others are wolves in sheep's clothing, like Camping and Freddy.
OleOneEye: Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2 Timothy 2:15
And, even more salient, that I can find support in the Bible for the exact opposite conclusion, and that Camping can find support in the Bible for his May 21st expiration date? Face it, the text has gone through iterative translations, revisions, edits, re-writes and so-on. It's vague, unclear, and archaic. And you can find support for just about any conclusion you want in it. That Jesus and others spoke in parables so often doesn't help either.
So yeah. Christians. They're defined by their belief, not by their theistic education.
Good grief, you are blind. I pointed out the Scripture, and you ignore it. Willfully.
Troll.
Scripture is not evidence. It is a foundation of belief, and can be interpreted many ways.
Okay. Provide a rational interpretation of that scripture that involves knowing the exact date of the end of the world.
Good grief, you are blind. I pointed out the Scripture, and you ignore it. Willfully.
Troll.
Scripture is not evidence. It is a foundation of belief, and can be interpreted many ways.
Okay. Provide a rational interpretation of that scripture that involves knowing the exact date of the end of the world.
I can't. Nor would I want to. I didn't say I believed their interpretation was correct. I stated that we cannot know they are wrong until after the date they predict. While I have, contrary to what some here may believe, read the bible more than once (and several different versions), I haven't made it my life to study it and look for obscure passages to support an asinine end-of-the-world theory.
The simple fact that theologians have been debating the meanings of various passages for centuries is fairly compelling evidence that the Bible can be interpreted many ways.
While I disagree about the Bible being the "true word of God" (as I've heard it said), I would still recommend that everyone read through it at least once. It's an interesting read, whether you believe in God or not.
If you need to present a rational interpretation then a lot of things get shaky.
For the Bible as a whole or even passages that are vague, but that one passage is VERY clear and there is no rational interpretation of it OTHER than what it says.
I can't. Nor would I want to. I didn't say I believed their interpretation was correct. I stated that we cannot know they are wrong until after the date they predict.
This is evasive. If we assume that scripture is always correct, it can be used as evidence for and against things, including the prediction in question. If we assume that it is not always correct, then it cannot be the word of God and we have no reason to accept the prediction of a madman. If he's a madman, then there is no reason to give any credance to his prediction and we are safe in stating that he is incorrect.
The simple fact that theologians have been debating the meanings of various passages for centuries is fairly compelling evidence that the Bible can be interpreted many ways.
Not all passages are as clear cut as this one. If they were, then you would have far fewer debates.
If we assume that scripture is always correct
You might, but I certainly don't. There are far too many contradictions to take any one passage at face value.
If we assume that scripture is always correct
You might, but I certainly don't. There are far too many contradictions to take any one passage at face value.
Exactly, so this prediction deserves the same consideration that I give the prediction of the bum standing next to the freeway onramp with the sign that says the world is ending..............................exactly none. The ONLY reason to give this guy's prediction any more consideration than zero is if it is based off of religious scripture AND you believe that such scriptures are true. If you fall into that catagory, then the passage quoted earlier refutes his assertion and relegates his prediction to the "zero consideration" catagory.
If you need to present a rational interpretation then a lot of things get shaky.
For the Bible as a whole or even passages that are vague, but that one passage is VERY clear and there is no rational interpretation of it OTHER than what it says.
It's current translation in that specific version of it certainly is, I'll give you that.
If you need to present a rational interpretation then a lot of things get shaky.
For the Bible as a whole or even passages that are vague, but that one passage is VERY clear and there is no rational interpretation of it OTHER than what it says.
It's current translation in that specific version of it certainly is, I'll give you that.
Yeah. This is true. Various translations say different things. However, no one in this thread has provided a version that says anything else.
I wonder which version Camping is reading... maybe he wrote his own. Would anyone be able to tell?
I wouldn't. I think Revelations is the one book of the Bible that I've never really read. With all the glaring known errors in the King James Bible, it astounds me that anyone still uses it. Makes me wonder about the other versions.
I wouldn't. I think Revelations is the one book of the Bible that I've never really read. With all the glaring known errors in the King James Bible, it astounds me that anyone still uses it. Makes me wonder about the other versions.
To my understanding, two thousand years ago three people went around telling people that Jesus was resurrected from the dead, and that, the entire basis of Christianity hinges upon believing their claim in the absence of evidence. If people today are willing to base their entire theological belief system on the word of three people from two thousand years ago, it seems a small step to me that some would believe wholeheartedly in Revelations, the King James Bible, or whatnot.
Not mentioning this to be snarky, just clarifying.
Hehe. So true.
Why not sign the deed to your home over to me effective May 22? I'll water your plants and feed your pets, and you're not going to need it anymore cos you'll be up in Heaven, so really what's the worst that could happen?
Renters can be a real pain in the ass, though. Cash, on the other hand, won't ask you to fix a leaky toilet.
I'd be ok with all those houses. Sure the housing market is in the toilet, but I'd have a bunch of ready-made renters. :D
And no one to rent to?
Don't worry, boys and girls, this is another Millerite fiasco. The world is not going to end.
I'd be ok with all those houses. Sure the housing market is in the toilet, but I'd have a bunch of ready-made renters. :D
And no one to rent to?
Of course I'd have people to rent to. The same ones that signed their houses over to me believing "the end is nigh!" I thought that was obvious from where I said "I'd have a bunch of ready-made renters".
Now, since Camping believes that Jesus will return on May 21(?), and that statement is contrary to the words of Jesus in Matthew 24:36, as well as other places, can Camping be believed to be a Christian? The logical answer is No.
Incorrect. One must profess belief, not be informed on the tenants of their own religion or follow said tenants.
How can one profess belief if one is not informed on the tenants of their religion or follow said tenants?
Things like "being a stumbling block and swaying them to their gods" are the kind of thing that billions of people today are doing. I certainly hope that god does not decide that all non-christians need to be purged as well. Actually, I'm pretty sure there are some christians around there who do believe that, most likely inspired by passages like that.
Also,
profess
1 claim that one has (a quality or feeling).
How can one profess belief if one is not informed on the tenants of their religion or follow said tenants?
I fully believe in alcohol and enjoy getting drunk, but I have no idea how to brew it. Religion is somewhat similar.
Pretty simple concept when you look at it like that. And didn't he also have David massacre an assload of people? I may be misremembering ...
You will, however, be woefully ignorant of what Christians are about.
True. Christians are quite likely the least Christian people on the planet.
Sadly, this.
How can one profess belief if one is not informed on the tenants of their religion or follow said tenants?
Easy. With religion belief comes first, knowledge later (if at all). That's why it's called "belief" and not "knowing".
And didn't he also have David massacre an assload of people?
I think you're referring to 1 Chronicles 21 where David ordered a census of Israel. He was allowed to choose between 3 punishments; 3 years of famine, 3 months of losing battles against his enemies ("three months to be destroyed before thy foes, while that the sword of thine enemies overtaketh thee"), or 3 days of pestilence ("three days the sword of the LORD, even the pestilence, in the land, and the angel of the LORD destroying throughout all the coasts of Israel"). He chose to rely on God's mercy, and picked the pestilence.
The result:
"So the LORD sent pestilence upon Israel: and there fell of Israel seventy thousand men." 1 Chronicles 21:14
David, by the way, wasn't one of the 70,000 that died.
How can one profess belief if one is not informed on the tenants of their religion or follow said tenants?
Easy. With religion belief comes first, knowledge later (if at all). That's why it's called "belief" and not "knowing".
Sorry, but that just doesn't wash. You have to know what it is that you believe. You cannot say, I am a Christian without knowing the teachings of Jesus Christ any more than you can say, I am a Buddhist without knowing the teachings of Buddha.
If you came to my preacher, claiming to be a Christian, and started spouting off what Camping or Freddy is currently spouting off, he would correct you by showing you the same Scriptures that I showed you, plus more that I haven't thought of.
I like you, EE; you're smarter than most of the other folk here, but your sig line is really showing.
Now, if you want, you can say that a person really has to have a firm understanding of the ins and outs of their religion before they can be a member of that religion, but I'm not going to be the one that tells parents that their dead five year old is going to hell because they weren't a real Christian. For that matter, you think that most Christians understand the sophistry that Aquinieas1 had to jump through to find a way for dead babies not to go to hell?
So you think I'm being unreasonable in saying that Christians don't have to understand very much about Christ to be Christian? Well I say you only have Christians to blame for that, because it's by the standards of Christians that I judge them.
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1I think it was Aquineas that tried to lay that one to rest, but I'm not sure. Either way, the whole "where do the souls of dead babies go" is a fun question that, to get to an answer that's palatable to most people you really do have to ignore the bible.
Sorry, but that just doesn't wash. You have to know what it is that you believe. You cannot say, I am a Christian without knowing the teachings of Jesus Christ any more than you can say, I am a Buddhist without knowing the teachings of Buddha.
If you came to my preacher, claiming to be a Christian, and started spouting off what Camping or Freddy is currently spouting off, he would correct you by showing you the same Scriptures that I showed you, plus more that I haven't thought of.
I like you, EE; you're smarter than most of the other folk here, but your sig line is really showing.
Of curiousity, is there anything in Scripture which requires (or suggests) that a Christian should study Scripture?
(note: no snarkiness intended whatsoever, I am genuinely curious)
And yet how many Christians, do you think, know a whit about Leviticus beyond the sex stuff? How many Christians know that the bible says you should stone backmouthing kids to death? How many ostracize menstruating women for a week because they're "unclean"? Fact is that most Christians get by with very little knowledge of their religion.
Now, if you want, you can say that a person really has to have a firm understanding of the ins and outs of their religion before they can be a member of that religion, but I'm not going to be the one that tells parents that their dead five year old is going to hell because they weren't a real Christian. For that matter, you think that most Christians understand the sophistry that Aquinieas1 had to jump through to find a way for dead babies not to go to hell?
So you think I'm being unreasonable in saying that Christians don't have to understand very much about Christ to be Christian? Well I say you only have Christians to blame for that, because it's by the standards of Christians that I judge them.
________
1I think it was Aquineas that tried to lay that one to rest, but I'm not sure. Either way, the whole "where do the souls of dead babies go" is a fun question that, to get to an answer that's palatable to most people you really do have to ignore the bible.
Nor am I going to be the one who tells a parent of an infant who died of crib-death that their child is in Hell. There is a concept known as the age of accountability: It states that a young child, who is unable to know the difference between good and evil, is covered by default by the blood of Christ. It is generally accepted that by 12 or 13, a child then knows enough between good and evil to make moral choices, although it can happen much earlier, depending on circumstances. Romans 1:18 states, "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness"; God's wrath is reserved for those who have rejected His love and His law. A child, not knowing God's law, the definer of good and evil, is therefor not subject to it until such time as he is able to understand it and then accept it or reject it, verified by Romans 5:13 and Romans 7:7.
Here's another point: The laws of Deuteronomy that you like to castigate Christians over are covered by the redemptive blood of Christ. Jesus said, "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." Matthew 5:17 & 18, emphasis mine). Jesus' death on the cross was the ultimate fulfillment of the law; every single Passover lamb that was slaughtered was a marker pointing to the death of Jesus. It is HIS blood that covers my sins, and the sins of everyone who accepts His appropriation. That includes children who have no knowledge of the difference between good and evil. Just as importantly, it is His resurrection that fully demonstrates His triumph over death, not just for Himself, but for all who accept Him.
Because of His fulfillment of the Law, we are no longer subject to the Law. Do we then have leave to indulge in sin? No. Rather, Christians are to live moral lives as a witness to others about the power of God to save us from sin, to live moral lives as a response to the saving grace of a loving God, who did not spare His only begotten Son. Romans chapters 5 through 7.
You are right to have problems with Christians who have strange practices. Some of them are wayward and backslidden; some simply call themselves Christians because they were raised in a Christian household, but never accepted Christ; and others are wolves in sheep's clothing, like Camping and Freddy.
OleOneEye: Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2 Timothy 2:15
And, even more salient, that I can find support in the Bible for the exact opposite conclusion, and that Camping can find support in the Bible for his May 21st expiration date? Face it, the text has gone through iterative translations, revisions, edits, re-writes and so-on. It's vague, unclear, and archaic. And you can find support for just about any conclusion you want in it. That Jesus and others spoke in parables so often doesn't help either.
So yeah. Christians. They're defined by their belief, not by their theistic education.
Good grief, you are blind. I pointed out the Scripture, and you ignore it. Willfully.
Troll.
Scripture is not evidence. It is a foundation of belief, and can be interpreted many ways.
Okay. Provide a rational interpretation of that scripture that involves knowing the exact date of the end of the world.
Good grief, you are blind. I pointed out the Scripture, and you ignore it. Willfully.
Troll.
Scripture is not evidence. It is a foundation of belief, and can be interpreted many ways.
Okay. Provide a rational interpretation of that scripture that involves knowing the exact date of the end of the world.
I can't. Nor would I want to. I didn't say I believed their interpretation was correct. I stated that we cannot know they are wrong until after the date they predict. While I have, contrary to what some here may believe, read the bible more than once (and several different versions), I haven't made it my life to study it and look for obscure passages to support an asinine end-of-the-world theory.
The simple fact that theologians have been debating the meanings of various passages for centuries is fairly compelling evidence that the Bible can be interpreted many ways.
While I disagree about the Bible being the "true word of God" (as I've heard it said), I would still recommend that everyone read through it at least once. It's an interesting read, whether you believe in God or not.
If you need to present a rational interpretation then a lot of things get shaky.
For the Bible as a whole or even passages that are vague, but that one passage is VERY clear and there is no rational interpretation of it OTHER than what it says.
I can't. Nor would I want to. I didn't say I believed their interpretation was correct. I stated that we cannot know they are wrong until after the date they predict.
This is evasive. If we assume that scripture is always correct, it can be used as evidence for and against things, including the prediction in question. If we assume that it is not always correct, then it cannot be the word of God and we have no reason to accept the prediction of a madman. If he's a madman, then there is no reason to give any credance to his prediction and we are safe in stating that he is incorrect.
The simple fact that theologians have been debating the meanings of various passages for centuries is fairly compelling evidence that the Bible can be interpreted many ways.
Not all passages are as clear cut as this one. If they were, then you would have far fewer debates.
If we assume that scripture is always correct
You might, but I certainly don't. There are far too many contradictions to take any one passage at face value.
If we assume that scripture is always correct
You might, but I certainly don't. There are far too many contradictions to take any one passage at face value.
Exactly, so this prediction deserves the same consideration that I give the prediction of the bum standing next to the freeway onramp with the sign that says the world is ending..............................exactly none. The ONLY reason to give this guy's prediction any more consideration than zero is if it is based off of religious scripture AND you believe that such scriptures are true. If you fall into that catagory, then the passage quoted earlier refutes his assertion and relegates his prediction to the "zero consideration" catagory.
If you need to present a rational interpretation then a lot of things get shaky.
For the Bible as a whole or even passages that are vague, but that one passage is VERY clear and there is no rational interpretation of it OTHER than what it says.
It's current translation in that specific version of it certainly is, I'll give you that.
If you need to present a rational interpretation then a lot of things get shaky.
For the Bible as a whole or even passages that are vague, but that one passage is VERY clear and there is no rational interpretation of it OTHER than what it says.
It's current translation in that specific version of it certainly is, I'll give you that.
Yeah. This is true. Various translations say different things. However, no one in this thread has provided a version that says anything else.
I wonder which version Camping is reading... maybe he wrote his own. Would anyone be able to tell?
I wouldn't. I think Revelations is the one book of the Bible that I've never really read. With all the glaring known errors in the King James Bible, it astounds me that anyone still uses it. Makes me wonder about the other versions.
I wouldn't. I think Revelations is the one book of the Bible that I've never really read. With all the glaring known errors in the King James Bible, it astounds me that anyone still uses it. Makes me wonder about the other versions.
To my understanding, two thousand years ago three people went around telling people that Jesus was resurrected from the dead, and that, the entire basis of Christianity hinges upon believing their claim in the absence of evidence. If people today are willing to base their entire theological belief system on the word of three people from two thousand years ago, it seems a small step to me that some would believe wholeheartedly in Revelations, the King James Bible, or whatnot.
Not mentioning this to be snarky, just clarifying.
Hehe. So true.
Why not sign the deed to your home over to me effective May 22? I'll water your plants and feed your pets, and you're not going to need it anymore cos you'll be up in Heaven, so really what's the worst that could happen?
Renters can be a real pain in the ass, though. Cash, on the other hand, won't ask you to fix a leaky toilet.
I'd be ok with all those houses. Sure the housing market is in the toilet, but I'd have a bunch of ready-made renters. :D
And no one to rent to?
Don't worry, boys and girls, this is another Millerite fiasco. The world is not going to end.
I'd be ok with all those houses. Sure the housing market is in the toilet, but I'd have a bunch of ready-made renters. :D
And no one to rent to?
Of course I'd have people to rent to. The same ones that signed their houses over to me believing "the end is nigh!" I thought that was obvious from where I said "I'd have a bunch of ready-made renters".