Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 rizen_isstaria_dup Oct 19, 2008 0:45:27	First off, don't come to the forums looking for an agrument. Theres better things to do. Don't completely disagree. Don't dissect someones posts repeatedly. Don't over exaggerate your points. Come on, look at Maddox (http://maddox.xmission.com/), he doesn't do this !!! He's one of rudest people on the internet and he doesn't look like that. It also makes you look desperate. Don't keep the Caps Lock turned on These are great tips since arguments are inevitable.
#2 Lord_Ventnor Oct 19, 2008 1:08:13	Never, EVER use "teh". Come on, people. It doesn't take much effort to make sure the the h and the e go in the right spots. It's not rocket science.
#3 tiwaztyrsfist Oct 19, 2008 1:32:21	OMG WTF? Y r U b3in teh 4um Nazi? i CaNnZ po57 howevarz I wantz!1!!!1!!eleven!!! Lol wut? (Sorry, I can't resist that sort of thing)
#4 Bobfred21 Oct 19, 2008 1:57:31	First off, don't come to the forums looking for an agrument. Theres better things to do. I DISAGREE. IT'S PLENTY OF FUN TO **** OFF ALL OF YOU NOOBS WHO TAKE THE INTERNETZ WAY TO SERIOUSLY. LOLZLOLZLOLZLOLZ NOOB Don't completely disagree. Don't dissect someones posts repeatedly. LOL, YOU OBVIOUSLY DON'T KNOW HOW TO ARGUE. THAT'S HOW ARGUING WORKS. GOD TAKE A DEBATE CLASS OR SOMETHING, WHAT ARE YOU 12? LOLZLOLZLOLZLOLZ HA, 12 Don't over exaggerate your points. Come on, look at Maddox (http://maddox.xmission.com/), he doesn't do this !!! He's one of rudest people on the internet and he doesn't look like that. It also makes you look desperate. HAHAHAHA, QUOTE FROM MADDOX "If narcissism were measured in units of mass, the skulls of people who pointed out puns would crush in on themselves in a giant black hole of stupidity. " DOESN'T EXAGERATE HIS POINTS HUH!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! AHAHAHAHA YOU'RE AN ARGUMAMNT NOOB!!!!!! Don't keep the Caps Lock turned on Oh, right. Sorry about that. Don't take any of that for real, couldn't resist. :P Good tips though, and amusing, but most of the people who are going to make these mistakes aren't polite enough to read this and adhere to it. HA NOOB PWND! LOLZLOLZLOLZLOLZLOLZ! :P;)
#5 wight_chocolate Oct 19, 2008 9:25:09	First off, don't come to the forums looking for an agrument. Theres better things to do. There are "better things" to do than post on a D&D forum in the first place, argument or not. Don't completely disagree. What? Either I disagree with someone or I don't. Don't dissect someones posts repeatedly. Why not? Dissecting what people say and countering their points is a major aspect of debate. In fact, one might say it's the whole point. Don't over exaggerate your points. Come on, look at Maddox (http://maddox.xmission.com/), he doesn't do this !!! Post above mine already covered this one. These are great tips since arguments are enviable. No, they aren't. The only one that makes half a lick of sense is the one about not keeping Caps Lock on, and frankly I've never seen anyone post like that in a serious debate anyway. I also don't think "enviable" was the word you were looking for there. And now I'm probably going to get complained at for being "hostile" or whatever, and you'll end up feeling even more justified in having created this thread because I'm CLEARLY just some mindless aggressor.
#6 bob_loblaw Oct 19, 2008 9:28:24	I agree with your sentiment but I have to disagree with your premise. I actually come here looking for an argument. However I like to keep it civil and learn from the discussion. If all we did was agree around here it would be a rather boring place. You are right that some people are looking to cause problems but many of us simply ignore them. A good argument (which is synonymous with debate) is full of facts and interpretation. Everyone involved can learn something and walk away a better person. Look at the discussions I started over Obama and McCain. For the most part, they remained civil and many people brought in some interesting viewpoints. I have learned quite a bit from them. I plan on learning more. I have even changed my opinions a few times (as have a few others). Arguments are great learning tools. Sometimes the arguments are meant to be just fun. The discussions about TV shows and comics are not meant to advance our understanding. They are simply meant as discussion points and to see what theories other have. It's when the argument devolves into insults and ridicule that we have problems. Fortunately there are systems in place to deal with that when it happens.
#7 rizen_isstaria_dup Oct 19, 2008 9:47:42	I DISAGREE. IT'S PLENTY OF FUN TO **** OFF ALL OF YOU NOOBS WHO TAKE THE INTERNETZ WAY TO SERIOUSLY. LOLZLOLZLOLZLOLZ NOOB LOL, YOU OBVIOUSLY DON'T KNOW HOW TO ARGUE. THAT'S HOW ARGUING WORKS. GOD TAKE A DEBATE CLASS OR SOMETHING, WHAT ARE YOU 12? LOLZLOLZLOLZLOLZ HA, 12 Don't over exaggerate your points. Come on, look at Maddox (http://maddox.xmission.com/), he doesn't do this !!! He's one of rudest people on the internet and he doesn't look like that. It also makes you look desperate. HAHAHAHA, QUOTE FROM MADDOX "If narcissism were measured in units of mass, the skulls of people who pointed out puns would crush in on themselves in a giant black hole of stupidity. " DOESN'T EXAGERATE HIS POINTS HUH!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! AHAHAHAHA YOU'RE AN ARGUMAMNT NOOB!!!!!! Oh, right. Sorry about that. Don't take any of that for real, couldn't resist. :P Good tips though, and amusing, but most of the people who are going to make these mistakes aren't polite enough to read this and adhere to it. HA NOOB PWND! LOLZLOLZLOLZLOLZLOLZ! :P;) Noob? How old are you? A quote from maddox, Seven sixteenths of one inch :"That's the distance you'd have to move your pinky in order to not sound like an idiot". I don't remotely take anything from the interet serious. I just wish the people who argue non stop can try not to be so annoying.
#8 wight_chocolate Oct 19, 2008 11:03:36	I don't remotely take anything from the interet serious. You took that post pretty seriously, considering it was so obviously a joke.
#9 tiwaztyrsfist Oct 19, 2008 13:42:00	Given the contrary nature of the internet, and the preponderance of people on same who apparently live to be smarmy and try to make themselves look smart, posts like this thread are basically troll bait. Telling people how they should behave, even if well intentioned, and especially if right, is offensive, obnoxious, and simply begging people to yell at you. So, don't expect anything here other than derision and facetious responses.
#10 rizen_isstaria_dup Oct 19, 2008 14:10:06	I agree with your sentiment but I have to disagree with your premise. I actually come here looking for an argument. However I like to keep it civil and learn from the discussion. If all we did was agree around here it would be a rather boring place. You are right that some people are looking to cause problems but many of us simply ignore them. A good argument (which is synonymous with debate) is full of facts and interpretation. Everyone involved can learn something and walk away a better person. Look at the discussions I started over Obama and McCain. For the most part, they remained civil and many people brought in some interesting viewpoints. I have learned quite a bit from them. I plan on learning more. I have even changed my opinions a few times (as have a few others). Arguments are great learning tools. Sometimes the arguments are meant to be just fun. The discussions about TV shows and comics are not meant to advance our understanding. They are simply meant as discussion points and to see what theories other have. It's when the argument devolves into insults and ridicule that we have problems. Fortunately there are systems in place to deal with that when it happens. Arguments are good for learning. I like meeting new people and having an open mind to their views is very important. If someone really wishes to teach another, they wouldn't insult and belittle them. If they do, that only proves that they don't care about anything you say.
#11 wight_chocolate Oct 19, 2008 14:48:34	If someone really wishes to teach another, they wouldn't insult and belittle them. If someone really wished to learn, they wouldn't care.
#12 calronmoonflower Oct 19, 2008 15:02:54	Well here are some things that I see people do that they shouldn't. Insult the other side. Fail to provide adequate support their position. Ignore points of rebuttal. straw man
#13 rizen_isstaria_dup Oct 20, 2008 0:58:37	Well here are some things that I see people do that they shouldn't. Insult the other side. Fail to provide adequate support their position. Ignore points of rebuttal. straw man A straw man, I never knew there was a word for it. I learned something new today, thank you ! Straw man should never socialized and are probably just emo.
#14 balcinok Oct 20, 2008 1:07:54	Well here are some things that I see people do that they shouldn't. Insult the other side. Fail to provide adequate support their position. Ignore points of rebuttal. straw man I interject my own final stage. 5. Wicker Man
#15 dirtyfrank Oct 20, 2008 1:48:44	Well here are some things that I see people do that they shouldn't. Insult the other side. Fail to provide adequate support their position. Ignore points of rebuttal. straw man Whats wrong with Straw Men? They keep the crows away or at least for a little while. Next your going to say that Red Herrings are bad because they smell or that it is not a good idea to be poisoning the well in my neighbors yard.
#16 _jayne_cobb_ Oct 20, 2008 8:44:41	First off, don't come to the forums looking for an agrument. Theres better things to do. True, but some people are just jerks. The people who do come looking for an argument are the ones least likely to be swayed by calls to stop. Don't completely disagree. If I completely disagree with something I'm not going to pretend I don't. That is pandering and dishonest. Don't dissect someones posts repeatedly. Some points deserve repeated dissection. Don't over exaggerate your points. Come on, look at Maddox (http://maddox.xmission.com/), he doesn't do this !!! He's one of rudest people on the internet and he doesn't look like that. It also makes you look desperate. It depends entirely on the context. Hyperbole can be a useful tool, it is just one sadly misused by most people. Don't keep the Caps Lock turned on But caps lock makes you EXTRA RIGHT! Well here are some things that I see people do that they shouldn't. Insult the other side. Fail to provide adequate support their position. Ignore points of rebuttal. straw man This ^
#17 goblin_pride Oct 20, 2008 11:52:18	True, but some people are just jerks. The people who do come looking for an argument are the ones least likely to be swayed by calls to stop. Bite me.
#18 _jayne_cobb_ Oct 20, 2008 12:16:10	Bite me. Well, that was random.
#19 goblin_pride Oct 20, 2008 12:54:41	Well, that was random. Sorry, too much? I just picked a poster at random and let it fly. You just drew the short straw.
#20 maulorn Oct 20, 2008 17:21:04	What NOT to do... Never admit fault... Post lots of wikipedia... Nah really do not know...
#21 _jayne_cobb_ Oct 21, 2008 8:43:03	What NOT to do... Never admit fault... Post lots of wikipedia... When in doubt, post a dictionary.com definition of a single word Louder is always better Whoever got the last word wins Always suggest all who disagree with you are simply too stupid to understand
#22 zombie_babies Oct 21, 2008 9:09:43	When all else fails, look for spelling and grammar errors in your opponent's post. Attack these as they are an obvious indication of below average intellect. If you feel the argument slipping away from you, post the following: That'll show 'em. ;)
#23 Cpt_Micha Oct 21, 2008 9:17:46	What if they possess grammar skills that are just that bad that you really can't tell what they are saying and need someone else to discern the message for you? Don't go into a forum dedicated to one specific thing, and be surprised when nearly everyone else that posts in your thread disagrees with you. Don't assume you are the only one that can see logic and reason.
#24 _jayne_cobb_ Oct 21, 2008 11:41:59	Never, under any circumstances, defend your position. Instead spend all your energy and efforts dissecting and destroying the posts of anyone who opposes you.
#25 shamurai7 Oct 21, 2008 15:28:56	wow! I actually witnessed a troll in this thread dissappear because he was ignored.... I guess that not feeding the trolls really does kill them. from his first post to his last one... it took him roughly 5 and a half hours to starve to death... I have a feeling he is just in a dormant state.
#26 Kobajagrande Oct 22, 2008 3:01:51	Few friendly tips: For the love of whatever, stop using the "random fallacy" thing. There is nothing more irritating than reading "straw man" over and over and over again, and people presenting it as a sort of "I win" thing. Also, don't try too much to sound formal in writing. Its actually quite funny looking at people trying to do that, but it does get old after a while. In general, try to think about what you write and how you do it. Would you get laughed by the people on the street for saying what you put in your post? Would you get your teeth kicked? Then its probably the good idea not to post it.
#27 goblin_pride Oct 22, 2008 6:38:26	Also, don't try too much to sound formal in writing. Its actually quite funny looking at people trying to do that, but it does get old after a while. Bite me. I do actually talk that way, most of the time. I'm always trying to find just the right words, even in conversation. I think it comes from being able to understand more than just one language. *That one wasn't random, Jayne.
#28 wight_chocolate Oct 22, 2008 7:45:53	For the love of whatever, stop using the "random fallacy" thing. You say "the random fallacy thing" like we should all know what you're talking about. What exactly is "the random fallacy thing"? Am I just out of the loop here or do you need to be more specific? Also, don't try too much to sound formal in writing. Its actually quite funny looking at people trying to do that, but it does get old after a while. yes i agree i can see why ppl typing like this is so much better!!!! lol! In general, try to think about what you write and how you do it. Would you get laughed by the people on the street for saying what you put in your post? Would you get your teeth kicked? Then its probably the good idea not to post it. To hell with that. There are people on the street who would kick my teeth just for saying I'm an agnostic. This is an extremely poor way of gauging what should and should not be said.
#29 _jayne_cobb_ Oct 22, 2008 9:28:11	Also, don't try too much to sound formal in writing. This is bad advice and should be ignored.
#30 shamurai7 Oct 22, 2008 9:57:23	wow! I actually witnessed a troll in this thread dissappear because he was ignored.... I guess that not feeding the trolls really does kill them. from his first post to his last one... it took him roughly 5 and a half hours to starve to death... I have a feeling he is just in a dormant state. I was right...he was just dormant...
#31 rizen_isstaria_dup Oct 22, 2008 10:04:55	Never, under any circumstances, defend your position. Instead spend all your energy and efforts dissecting and destroying the posts of anyone who opposes you. So would you do something like that in a face to face argument. Translate dissecting into interrupting and destoying into insulting and belittling. See folks you can tell alot about people in just the way they type and respond to people.
#32 wight_chocolate Oct 22, 2008 10:09:39	Lady, seriously, you need to practice picking up on when people are kidding. That's twice you've done that now in the same thread. I was right...he was just dormant... Here's another example of what not to do.
#33 dirtyfrank Oct 22, 2008 10:12:54	So would you do something like that in a face to face argument. Translate dissecting into interrupting and destroying into insulting and belittling. See folks you can tell alot about people in just the way they type and respond to people. Isn't dissecting of arguments used in debates, especially in political debates? "Instead of me convincing you that my plan is good and worth while I shall tell everyone how my opponent's plan is horrible." "Instead of answering the question I am going to instead keep on the old topic and continue to attack my opponent." Well they don't say these things but it is what politicians do.
#34 rizen_isstaria_dup Oct 22, 2008 10:23:15	Isn't dissecting of arguments used in debates, especially in political debates? "Instead of me convincing you that my plan is good and worth while I shall tell everyone how my opponent's plan is horrible." "Instead of answering the question I am going to instead keep on the old topic and continue to attack my opponent." Well they don't say these things but it is what politicians do. I'm just saying that in a one on one argument in person, "dissecting" is translated in interrupting.
#35 zombie_babies Oct 22, 2008 10:24:10	See folks you can tell alot about people in just the way they type and respond to people. Yep. Some people just can't see a joke as a joke. ;) :P
#36 rizen_isstaria_dup Oct 22, 2008 10:30:10	Yep. Some people just can't see a joke as a joke. ;) :P :D *shrug*
#37 zombie_babies Oct 22, 2008 11:37:21	:D *shrug* No worries. You're not the first and you shan't be the last. :D
#38 Cpt_Micha Oct 22, 2008 11:53:28	I got one! Don't post aborted Fetus pictures.
#39 Kobajagrande Oct 22, 2008 12:15:51	Bite me. I do actually talk that way, most of the time. I'm always trying to find just the right words, even in conversation. I think it comes from being able to understand more than just one language. Yes, well, no, no it doesn't. You say "the random fallacy thing" like we should all know what you're talking about. What exactly is "the random fallacy thing"? Am I just out of the loop here or do you need to be more specific? I thought the paragraph was pretty clear about what I mean, sorry. People over here claim the other party used the fallacy all the time, making it into a "I'm right and you're wrong end of argument" kind of thing. It has become quite an irritating custom over here, along with saying "epic fail" and posting dictionary references whenever you've got the time. yes i agree i can see why ppl typing like this is so much better!!!! lol! Informal =/= Internet slang. To hell with that. There are people on the street who would kick my teeth just for saying I'm an agnostic. This is an extremely poor way of gauging what should and should not be said. Ah yes, the mean and evil street filled with madmen. Anyways, the good thing is they would laugh at you for using words such as "lol" and "OMGWTF" in speech, along with a bunch of other things I read around here. Honestly, I find it to be a good filter for the bunch of people around. And one more: Examples are meant to illustrate what the person was talking about and when given, they are given as a gesture of good will to take extra effort to make himself clear. Don't ruin that by dissecting the example and missing his point whatsoever. Its impolite, to say the least.
#40 wight_chocolate Oct 22, 2008 12:49:54	I thought the paragraph was pretty clear about what I mean, sorry. People over here claim the other party used the fallacy all the time, making it into a "I'm right and you're wrong end of argument" kind of thing. And? If someone's using a logical fallacy then it makes perfect sense to point it out. Admittedly it becomes a problem when people just say "straw man" or whatever without making any attempt to elaborate, but if someone's using a fallacy then yes, they are wrong. Or at least their argument is invalid. Ah yes, the mean and evil street filled with madmen. Anyways, the good thing is they would laugh at you for using words such as "lol" and "OMGWTF" in speech, along with a bunch of other things I read around here. Yeah, because that's real, face-to-face speech. It's a different medium. Saying "lol" when speaking to someone is as silly as typing out a verbal stutter on the Internet. And one more: Examples are meant to illustrate what the person was talking about and when given, they are given as a gesture of good will to take extra effort to make himself clear. Don't ruin that by dissecting the example and missing his point whatsoever. Its impolite, to say the least. How exactly was I supposed to infer that by "Don't say anything you'd get laughed at/beaten up for", you actually meant "Don't say OMGWTF"? You said "If it would get you beaten up, don't say it" and so that is what I thought you meant. There's nothing impolite about me missing a point that you never made in the first place.
#41 _jayne_cobb_ Oct 22, 2008 13:01:14	So would you do something like that in a face to face argument. Translate dissecting into interrupting and destoying into insulting and belittling. See folks you can tell alot about people in just the way they type and respond to people. Clearly not, as you failed to tell I was being ironical with humorous intent.
#42 shamurai7 Oct 22, 2008 13:10:58	Clearly not, as you failed to tell I was being ironical with humorous intent. wow... i found that one pretty obvious myself.... rizen i think your intent detector needs new batteries. i was not having a LOL moment or anything, but i was catching what you were throwing...(that last bit did not sound good heh heh)
#43 calronmoonflower Oct 23, 2008 2:06:55	I thought the paragraph was pretty clear about what I mean, sorry. People over here claim the other party used the fallacy all the time, making it into a "I'm right and you're wrong end of argument" kind of thing. Wait I have something for this. Bad Reasons Fallacy and Fallacy Fallacy THE IRONY. Making a logical error doesn't necessary mean that your are wrong. It does mean that you should reword your argument to be logically valid. Otherwise the argument shouldn't be sufficient to prove the point. Without a proper rebuttal that shifts the conclusion to unproved. Also it is is generally a better idea to show why something is logically invalid that to play Name That Fallacy.
#44 ngh Oct 25, 2008 11:41:32	Don't confuse superior argument ability with being right or convincing anyone that you are right There is no win - you are working together to find what actually happens to be the case Don't say 'I don't care/ whatever' or any variations on that. There is no special skill in not caring about something on the internet. Even here - you can be too nerdy. And taking offense at stuff is not a valid life skill. If you are funnier - for all intents and purpouses you will be seen as right, which is pretty much the only value to be found in internet forums; some examples:
#45 Qube Oct 26, 2008 11:48:54	Well here are some things that I see people do that they shouldn't. Insult the other side. Fail to provide adequate support their position. Ignore points of rebuttal. straw man added some stuff 1. Insult the other side. 2. Fail to provide adequate support their position. 2.1: Do not present opinion or unfounded statements as fact. (simple adding IMO, IIRC,... fixes this) 2.2 if you make claims, its YOUR job to proof them, to the other persons job to provide counter evidence. 3. Ignore points of rebuttal. 4. straw man 4.1 or any fallacy for that matter oh, and "No, It isn't". best counter argument ever!
#46 dopplegangster Oct 26, 2008 11:54:37	Like my ol' man used to say... "wish in one hand, poop in the other... and see which fills up first"
#47 _jayne_cobb_ Oct 27, 2008 8:23:04	Like my ol' man used to say... "wish in one hand, poop in the other... and see which fills up first" I'd be wary about following the advice of a man who ****s in his own hand.
#48 goblin_pride Oct 28, 2008 16:50:06	I'd be wary about following the advice of a man who ****s in his own hand. Agreed. Next point of order?