Gandalf the white - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Gandalf the white

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
goose616
Aug 24, 2008 14:09:30 So an few friends and I have been having this ridiculous discussion of what would Gandalf the white be considered class wise under the 3rd edition D & D rules set. I hold firm to a Paladin Sorcerer but he claims a cleric. I even believe part celestial but still a paladin and not a cleric. What do you guys say?
#2
james_gaines_dup
Aug 24, 2008 14:16:57 While he is a "wizard", I think he's actually a cleric.

1. He can actually melee
2. Most of his 'spells' are more like buffs than blasts
3. He is very wise (high wis)
#3
pigknight
Aug 24, 2008 16:37:21 While the other characters range from 1st~6th level Gandalf the Grey is a Fighter 2/Wizard 3/Druid 3/Mystic Theurge 3 with 16's,17's and 18's. Gandalf the White is a Paladin 5/Wizard 3/Druid 3/Mystic Theurge 10/Eldritch Knight 2 with 18's across the board. He is the worst case of a DMPC ever.
#4
salla
Aug 24, 2008 19:56:45 Plot device.
#5
tfvanguard
Aug 24, 2008 20:12:31 Gandalf the white can best be described as a take on Christian angels - a sign that God was with the 'allies' (remember that while Lord of the Rings was not directly a WWII allegory, it certainly DREW from WWII, particularly the British experience.)

In gaming terms, an extremely high level cleric, perhaps a system-breaker.
#6
Thorvald_Grimbjorn
Aug 24, 2008 20:22:10
(...)(remember that while Lord of the Rings was not directly a WWII allegory, it certainly DREW from WWII, particularly the British experience.)

World War I, actually, where Tolkien fought as a soldier. And even then, he always denied any influences from the war on his works.
#7
tfvanguard
Aug 24, 2008 20:26:17
World War I, actually, where Tolkien fought as a soldier. And even then, he always denied any influences from the war on his works.

Not quite, The Hobbit was his first world war 'memory'. And, I know Tolkien probably didn't intend or want to effectively 'rewrite the war', but I can't imagine anyone living through that period and time and not having it affect them profoundly as a writer. There's never been a period of human history as profound as that.

I wouldn't look for a direct allegory, but there's gonna be a lot slippin' through there - and quite understandibly so.
#8
dirtyfrank
Aug 24, 2008 20:49:26 Gandalf would have no class because he is a minor god or at least a god like being.

The Valar (demigods) sent the five Istari (wizards) to middle-earth to unite all the people against Sauron. The five wizards were of the Valinorean race (the five Istari were all Valar). They took the shape of aged men and were forbidden to reveal their true nature nor strength to the mortals. The were also forbidden to have direct confrontations with Sauron.

Saruman was the head Istari that was sent to middle-earth until Gandalf over came the corrupted Saruman and became leader himself.

This info is in The Tolkien Companion and The Silmarillion.
#9
inlicere
Aug 24, 2008 21:23:37 In 3.x, I would call Gandalf a Solar... probably with Wizard class levels added.
#10
count_arioch_the_28th
Aug 24, 2008 21:30:14 3rd level cleric, at most.

holding off the Balrog? Magic Circle against Evil

His self resurrection? He was literally sent back by the god of middle earth. It's a pure Deus ex Machina.

Gandalf doesn't show off any real impressive abilities.
#11
dirtyfrank
Aug 24, 2008 21:43:35 Just because a wizard can cast Meteor Swarm doesn't mean he/she ever should or well cast it. Doesn't matter how strong you are when you are given orders to not use your powers you better not, especially when it is divinity giving those orders.
#12
pigknight
Aug 24, 2008 23:47:27 Ok I'll change my opinion.

Gandalf the White is a Solar Paladin 5/Wizard 3/Druid 3/Mystic Theurge 10/Eldritch Knight 2 with 18's across the board. He is the worstest case of a DMPC ever.

Bolded parts are what I changed.
#13
dirtyfrank
Aug 25, 2008 0:30:41 Gandalf is a great example of a DMPC. He is the GREAT and ALL POWERFULL that only does something to either advance the story or to save the rest of the fellowship at the last second. Other than at those two times Ganfalf doesn't do much.

Imagine a group trying to reenact the lord of the rings with Gandalf being a DMPC. Half the time it would seem as if the DM is talking to himself. Sort of reminds me of the animated show called Unforgotten Realms.

There are two friends playing an RPG and one of the characters is a DMPC. The worst thing is that the DM was role playing by himself when the episode starts.
#14
knights_disciple
Aug 25, 2008 1:19:06
Gandalf would have no class because he is a minor god or at least a god like being.

The Valar (demigods) sent the five Istari (wizards) to middle-earth to unite all the people against Sauron. The five wizards were of the Valinorean race (the five Istari were all Valar). They took the shape of aged men and were forbidden to reveal their true nature nor strength to the mortals. The were also forbidden to have direct confrontations with Sauron.

Saruman was the head Istari that was sent to middle-earth until Gandalf over came the corrupted Saruman and became leader himself.

This info is in The Tolkien Companion and The Silmarillion.

Not quite. The Istari were Maiar, the rank below the Valar, who were in turn below Eru/Illuvatar. They were essentially angels, with the Valar being the archangels, and Eru being God.
#15
Novacat
Aug 25, 2008 2:54:09 In 4E terms, it's simple. Human (for appearance) Wizard/Wizard of the Spiral Tower/Demigod with staff implement mastery.
#16
Thorvald_Grimbjorn
Aug 25, 2008 5:29:29
Not quite, The Hobbit was his first world war 'memory'.

He started writing "The Lord of the Rings" before World War II began; probably only the final parts (most of "The Return of the King", I'd say) were written while the war was going on. I don't think it had that much of an influence on him.

In 4E terms, it's simple. Human (for appearance) Wizard/Wizard of the Spiral Tower/Demigod with staff implement mastery.

I'd say Wizard (Cleric)/Radiant Servant/Demigod, myself.
#17
dirtyfrank
Aug 25, 2008 9:18:50 He is divine (immortal) in nature so make him an angel of some sort (probably the Angel of Protection or Angel of Valor). Now have him under a shape change or an illusion so that he appears to be an old human codger for several hundred years. Now give him a few levels in wizard (staff implement mastery). He seems like he would be multi-classed as a cleric. It also seems like he should have a feat or ability that allows him to dual wield a staff and longsword.

He may be multi-classed as a paladin rather than a cleric. He did sort of challenge and hold off the Balrog. For some reason it seems that his paragon path would be Battle Mage. I think his favorite spell would be Light or Prestidigitation (this is going by what he does in the movies).
#18
tfvanguard
Aug 25, 2008 9:25:46
He started writing "The Lord of the Rings" before World War II began; probably only the final parts (most of "The Return of the King", I'd say) were written while the war was going on. I don't think it had that much of an influence on him.

I don't know. "Fellowship of the Ring" has a lot of 1930s political overtones. (Again, not a direct allegory, just more reflecting the mood and the goings on at the time). "Return of the King" easily was influenced by WWII.

Again, I'm not saying that you can pick out everything in the books and say "Oh, that's actually Dernitz!" or anything, but there's an obvious thematic influence for the period - which is to be expected.
#19
count_arioch_the_28th
Aug 25, 2008 17:14:13 Quite. An author must draw upon his or her own life experiences to write well, every piece or literature written is going to have reflections of the events and mores of that time.
#20
bane13
Aug 26, 2008 6:31:48 Tolkien was a very devoted catholic. Much of the LOTR mythoilogic part was inspired by is faith (Eru and the Valar/Maïar, Morgoth like LOTR Satan, etc). Gandalf is a divine being, but in the middle earth he has the weakness and limit of a human being (he feel pain and hunger for example). His divine part only make him immortal and give him the power to do some spell. In 3rd edition, he would been a human (altough immortal) wizard/priest.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 goose616 Aug 24, 2008 14:09:30	So an few friends and I have been having this ridiculous discussion of what would Gandalf the white be considered class wise under the 3rd edition D & D rules set. I hold firm to a Paladin Sorcerer but he claims a cleric. I even believe part celestial but still a paladin and not a cleric. What do you guys say?
#2 james_gaines_dup Aug 24, 2008 14:16:57	While he is a "wizard", I think he's actually a cleric. 1. He can actually melee 2. Most of his 'spells' are more like buffs than blasts 3. He is very wise (high wis)
#3 pigknight Aug 24, 2008 16:37:21	While the other characters range from 1st~6th level Gandalf the Grey is a Fighter 2/Wizard 3/Druid 3/Mystic Theurge 3 with 16's,17's and 18's. Gandalf the White is a Paladin 5/Wizard 3/Druid 3/Mystic Theurge 10/Eldritch Knight 2 with 18's across the board. He is the worst case of a DMPC ever.
#4 salla Aug 24, 2008 19:56:45	Plot device.
#5 tfvanguard Aug 24, 2008 20:12:31	Gandalf the white can best be described as a take on Christian angels - a sign that God was with the 'allies' (remember that while Lord of the Rings was not directly a WWII allegory, it certainly DREW from WWII, particularly the British experience.) In gaming terms, an extremely high level cleric, perhaps a system-breaker.
#6 Thorvald_Grimbjorn Aug 24, 2008 20:22:10	(...)(remember that while Lord of the Rings was not directly a WWII allegory, it certainly DREW from WWII, particularly the British experience.) World War I, actually, where Tolkien fought as a soldier. And even then, he always denied any influences from the war on his works.
#7 tfvanguard Aug 24, 2008 20:26:17	World War I, actually, where Tolkien fought as a soldier. And even then, he always denied any influences from the war on his works. Not quite, The Hobbit was his first world war 'memory'. And, I know Tolkien probably didn't intend or want to effectively 'rewrite the war', but I can't imagine anyone living through that period and time and not having it affect them profoundly as a writer. There's never been a period of human history as profound as that. I wouldn't look for a direct allegory, but there's gonna be a lot slippin' through there - and quite understandibly so.
#8 dirtyfrank Aug 24, 2008 20:49:26	Gandalf would have no class because he is a minor god or at least a god like being. The Valar (demigods) sent the five Istari (wizards) to middle-earth to unite all the people against Sauron. The five wizards were of the Valinorean race (the five Istari were all Valar). They took the shape of aged men and were forbidden to reveal their true nature nor strength to the mortals. The were also forbidden to have direct confrontations with Sauron. Saruman was the head Istari that was sent to middle-earth until Gandalf over came the corrupted Saruman and became leader himself. This info is in The Tolkien Companion and The Silmarillion.
#9 inlicere Aug 24, 2008 21:23:37	In 3.x, I would call Gandalf a Solar... probably with Wizard class levels added.
#10 count_arioch_the_28th Aug 24, 2008 21:30:14	3rd level cleric, at most. holding off the Balrog? Magic Circle against Evil His self resurrection? He was literally sent back by the god of middle earth. It's a pure Deus ex Machina. Gandalf doesn't show off any real impressive abilities.
#11 dirtyfrank Aug 24, 2008 21:43:35	Just because a wizard can cast Meteor Swarm doesn't mean he/she ever should or well cast it. Doesn't matter how strong you are when you are given orders to not use your powers you better not, especially when it is divinity giving those orders.
#12 pigknight Aug 24, 2008 23:47:27	Ok I'll change my opinion. Gandalf the White is a Solar Paladin 5/Wizard 3/Druid 3/Mystic Theurge 10/Eldritch Knight 2 with 18's across the board. He is the worstest case of a DMPC ever. Bolded parts are what I changed.
#13 dirtyfrank Aug 25, 2008 0:30:41	Gandalf is a great example of a DMPC. He is the GREAT and ALL POWERFULL that only does something to either advance the story or to save the rest of the fellowship at the last second. Other than at those two times Ganfalf doesn't do much. Imagine a group trying to reenact the lord of the rings with Gandalf being a DMPC. Half the time it would seem as if the DM is talking to himself. Sort of reminds me of the animated show called Unforgotten Realms. There are two friends playing an RPG and one of the characters is a DMPC. The worst thing is that the DM was role playing by himself when the episode starts.
#14 knights_disciple Aug 25, 2008 1:19:06	Gandalf would have no class because he is a minor god or at least a god like being. The Valar (demigods) sent the five Istari (wizards) to middle-earth to unite all the people against Sauron. The five wizards were of the Valinorean race (the five Istari were all Valar). They took the shape of aged men and were forbidden to reveal their true nature nor strength to the mortals. The were also forbidden to have direct confrontations with Sauron. Saruman was the head Istari that was sent to middle-earth until Gandalf over came the corrupted Saruman and became leader himself. This info is in The Tolkien Companion and The Silmarillion. Not quite. The Istari were Maiar, the rank below the Valar, who were in turn below Eru/Illuvatar. They were essentially angels, with the Valar being the archangels, and Eru being God.
#15 Novacat Aug 25, 2008 2:54:09	In 4E terms, it's simple. Human (for appearance) Wizard/Wizard of the Spiral Tower/Demigod with staff implement mastery.
#16 Thorvald_Grimbjorn Aug 25, 2008 5:29:29	Not quite, The Hobbit was his first world war 'memory'. He started writing "The Lord of the Rings" before World War II began; probably only the final parts (most of "The Return of the King", I'd say) were written while the war was going on. I don't think it had that much of an influence on him. In 4E terms, it's simple. Human (for appearance) Wizard/Wizard of the Spiral Tower/Demigod with staff implement mastery. I'd say Wizard (Cleric)/Radiant Servant/Demigod, myself.
#17 dirtyfrank Aug 25, 2008 9:18:50	He is divine (immortal) in nature so make him an angel of some sort (probably the Angel of Protection or Angel of Valor). Now have him under a shape change or an illusion so that he appears to be an old human codger for several hundred years. Now give him a few levels in wizard (staff implement mastery). He seems like he would be multi-classed as a cleric. It also seems like he should have a feat or ability that allows him to dual wield a staff and longsword. He may be multi-classed as a paladin rather than a cleric. He did sort of challenge and hold off the Balrog. For some reason it seems that his paragon path would be Battle Mage. I think his favorite spell would be Light or Prestidigitation (this is going by what he does in the movies).
#18 tfvanguard Aug 25, 2008 9:25:46	He started writing "The Lord of the Rings" before World War II began; probably only the final parts (most of "The Return of the King", I'd say) were written while the war was going on. I don't think it had that much of an influence on him. I don't know. "Fellowship of the Ring" has a lot of 1930s political overtones. (Again, not a direct allegory, just more reflecting the mood and the goings on at the time). "Return of the King" easily was influenced by WWII. Again, I'm not saying that you can pick out everything in the books and say "Oh, that's actually Dernitz!" or anything, but there's an obvious thematic influence for the period - which is to be expected.
#19 count_arioch_the_28th Aug 25, 2008 17:14:13	Quite. An author must draw upon his or her own life experiences to write well, every piece or literature written is going to have reflections of the events and mores of that time.
#20 bane13 Aug 26, 2008 6:31:48	Tolkien was a very devoted catholic. Much of the LOTR mythoilogic part was inspired by is faith (Eru and the Valar/Maïar, Morgoth like LOTR Satan, etc). Gandalf is a divine being, but in the middle earth he has the weakness and limit of a human being (he feel pain and hunger for example). His divine part only make him immortal and give him the power to do some spell. In 3rd edition, he would been a human (altough immortal) wizard/priest.