Green Ronin rejects the GSL.
Interesting.
This announcement affected me in the same way Paizo's announcement did, not in the slightest and I frankly couldn't care less. I like what Paizo is doing for 3.75 and will probably get the free beta download next month, but I am not sure if I will ever play it. It is great that they are trying to make their game back compatible with all the 3.x stuff and it gives those who like to continue with 3.x something to look forward to. Perhaps Green Ronin will support Paizo and do the same thing.
I don't see this as crushing news to anyone.
I like their Mutants and Masterminds, which is their best published game in my opinion, for converting to champions, but never really cared for any of the D&D product line they created. It's probably a good thing that they are going to concentrate on their other games. I didn't find it surprising and expect more 3rd parties to follow suit. I don't think this will hurt the game one bit as others will form to pick up where they drop off.
This announcement affected me in the same way Paizo's announcement did, not in the slightest and I frankly couldn't care less. I like what Paizo is doing for 3.75 and will probably get the free beta download next month, but I am not sure if I will ever play it. It is great that they are trying to make their game back compatible with all the 3.x stuff and it gives those who like to continue with 3.x something to look forward to. Perhaps Green Ronin will support Paizo and do the same thing.
I don't see this as crushing news to anyone.
Well, if you see that one of the most successful 3rd party campaign settings (Freeport) not transitioning to 4e as not "crushing," then that's fine. For you, it may not be. A company that decides to fully support their house system (True20) over the newest incarnation of D&D is a big deal, regardless of what you may think. Green Ronin is arguably the best 3rd party publisher out there - Paizo and Necromancer being the other two compaines in contention for that honor, which ironically aren't moving to 4e either (in Necro's case, they technically are, but only with new product/product lines). I'm not trying to be snarky when I say this, but whether that it affects you or not does not mean this is a not a big impact to the industry and 4e as a whole.
I think there are better 3rd party groups out there other than Green Ronin and Necro for D&D material, and most of them only post their material on RPGnow as downloadable PDFs. (So do the aforementioned, but you can get them other palaces too.) Okay, maybe technically they are fan based material, but the quality of some are a heck of a lot better than what I have seen published from 2 of the big 3 3rd party members you mentioned. Kenzer and Co are going 4th, They have good stuff. If you want examples of what I think is better go here:
http://www.0onegames.com/catalog/index.php
http://www.goodmangames.com/
Of course, I believe that most of the smaller publishers have not stated anything yet, but I will assume that most will convert.
I am glad if you liked Freeport, for myself it is of no use. But realistically, the 3rd party publishers are a very small piece of the game pie so I really don't believe it has an impact on 4th edition's well being as a whole. They didn't say they never will, just not now. Besides, like I said before, there will be other people that will get together and create new 3rd party material for the 4th edition and end up being just as successful.
I'm not saying there is nothing wrong with the GSL, heck I agree 100% woth the owner from Green Ronin. But if they don't do it, someone else will, which is why I don't see it as a blow.
I wish Green Ronin nothing but success and happiness as they go off supporting their own material. And I think they will be better for it anyway. Like I said in my previous post, Mutants and Masterminds is probably their best creation to date in my opinion. I would love to see them concentrate on that even more.
Now I would have put them as Paizo as way out there in first, with Green Ronin a very distant second, and Necromancer even further back. Converting a setting to any edition should cause no problems.
Well, that's opinion. I guess what I'm saying isn't fact, per se, but I'm basing my posts on what employees, managers, and owners, at game stores in my vicinity have discussed. Those three are, by far, the biggest three companies, sales-wise, of all the third party publisher.
I think there are better 3rd party groups out there other than Green Ronin and Necro for D&D material, and most of them only post their material on RPGnow as downloadable PDFs. (So do the aforementioned, but you can get them other palaces too.) Okay, maybe technically they are fan based material, but the quality of some are a heck of a lot better than what I have seen published from 2 of the big 3 3rd party members you mentioned. Kenzer and Co are going 4th, They have good stuff. If you want examples of what I think is better go here:
Again, opinion. Not necessarily against what may be a fact, but still an opinion. Not saying that I don't agree with you, though. 0one has some great stuff, Louis Porter Jr. Designs, Expeditious Retreat (which I consider a small press) are all great. I believe they have to be - there's less margin for error. But are they better than the bigger, aforementioned companies? I can't say, only give my opinion. But those big three companies have proven to be are successful and put out quality products.
And it's funny that you mention Kenzer - it's true that they are producing 4E material, it is believed to be doing it the GSL, the same as Goodman Games.
Of course, I believe that most of the smaller publishers have not stated anything yet, but I will assume that most will convert.
That generalization might not necessarily correct. I can't remember exactly where I've seen it, but there was a discussion on the Enworld boards (in the GSL subforum) where actual heads of small publishers were coming forward and many of them stated that they would most likely not be switching, at least not without being able to circumnavigate the GSL. I would venture a guess, based on that thread that "most" may be a stretch.
I am glad if you liked Freeport, for myself it is of no use. But realistically, the 3rd party publishers are a very small piece of the game pie so I really don't believe it has an impact on 4th edition's well being as a whole. They didn't say they never will, just not now. Besides, like I said before, there will be other people that will get together and create new 3rd party material for the 4th edition and end up being just as successful.
I never said I liked Freeport. Just because I state that it is, sales-wise, the biggest third party published campaign setting should no way connotate into my liking it. I can submit to the fact that 4E is the best selling RPG, but that should not equate into me liking it. ;) Realistically, WotC is going to expect 3rd party publishers to pick up their slack like they expected them to do with 3/3.5 - publishing adventures, campaign settings, and the like. Not coming up with their own game systems, and stand-alones. Except this time it appears, at first glance, that not as many 3PP's are willing to make the jump - they realize that the GSL is not up to snuff and would rather continue with the "apparently broken" (:rolleyes
3/3.5 or support their own products (or each others, like Necro is going to do with Pathfinder, or Green Ronin is doing sharing Freeport with other smaller publishers).I'm not saying there is nothing wrong with the GSL, heck I agree 100% woth the owner from Green Ronin. But if they don't do it, someone else will, which is why I don't see it as a blow.
I think that remains to be seen, as is the long term success of 4e. Over it's run, 3/3.5 can be considered a success. Only time will tell whether 4e will fare the same.
Well, that's opinion. I guess what I'm saying isn't fact, per se, but I'm basing my posts on what employees, managers, and owners, at game stores in my vicinity have discussed. Those three are, by far, the biggest three companies, sales-wise, of all the third party publisher.
As am I for the area I live in. The big three here were Paizo- because of Dragon, Dungeon, and their adventure path series; Green Ronin- because of Mutants and Masterminds; then Necromancer. So I guess your area really likes Green Ronin D&D material, where the area I live in likes Green Ronin's Mutants and Masterminds game, but not much else. When Paizo was doing Dragon and Dungeon that was the bulk of 3rd party sales in the area, not much else for 3rd party sales was evident. And now that paizo is not doing the mags, even less material is being sold by 3rd party. One owner I know won't even order 3rd party material unless you ask for it. So I guess for your area it might be devastated, but for my area it won't. We're both right, yeah....:D
The rest I can't argue with because it is opinion, which I thought I stated, didn't mean to imply anything else. And I did say IF when I stated about your liking of Freeport, didn't want to imply anything there either.
I have not decided if I like 4th ed since I have not played it. I have liked a lot of what I have read, but until I actually get to run a game I don't know. I do know that if it turns out that our group doesn't like it, we're just going old school and going to the Rules Cyclopedia. We all agreed that 3.x got too rules heavy. But the success or failure of 4th ed needs to wait a bit longer than a month+. We'll only know if 4th was a success or not when the next edition comes out. I can't go by the local sales here because most people bought theirs cheaper through the Internet which really annoyed the local FLGS owners because now they are stuck with product.
Kenzer and Co are going 4th, They have good stuff.
Note that Kenzer is doing so absent the GSL, and that it appears Goodman may be doing so as well since they aren't following the street date of October in the slightest.
In the spirit of the old, "Paizo shows the finger to WotC," thread I thought it would be worth while to note this:
Green Ronin rejects the GSL.
Interesting.
Yes.
Makes sense as they have two RPGs out, Ice & Fire coming soon, and Dragon Fist on a back burner. That seems like plenty for anyone.
Now I would have put them as Paizo as way out there in first, with Green Ronin a very distant second, and Necromancer even further back. Converting a setting to any edition should cause no problems.
I think there are better 3rd party groups out there other than Green Ronin and Necro for D&D material, and most of them only post their material on RPGnow as downloadable PDFs.
Perhaps, but Green Ronin's label is among the big bosses when it comes to supporting d20 and OGL publishing through third parties. Paizo enjoyed the piggyback ride through the publication of "official" D&D magazines, until WotC decided to bring the magazines back into their robes. Paizo like Green Ronin is counting on the many doubters and defecting fans of D&D to their own take on the d20 System rules (sans the trademarked label).
My opinion would probably be agreed by the greater consensus, that Green Ronin is the top, followed by Necromancer Games (a design studio whose publishinghouse happens to be White Wolf), and Paizo.