Grognard?! - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Grognard?!

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
isaacc
Jun 19, 2008 9:26:45 I have now several times seen the term grognard used here to refer to role-players. What gives? Grognard has nothing to do with role-players and role-playing. Aside from its original meaning of an old soldier, it is used all throughout gaming to mean a wargamer as in those monster conflict simulations. Is this something new?
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#2
farmer42_dup
Jun 19, 2008 9:35:49 Actually, it isn't specific to war gamers. It's been used for a while now to describe the gamers who choose to play older games instead of new rulesets. Or, the old guard. Which is why it's used.
#3
apollyonschosen
Jun 19, 2008 12:25:21 With a very negative connotation i might add. Very sad.
#4
eldritch_lord
Jun 19, 2008 13:25:14
it is used all throughout gaming to mean a wargamer as in those monster conflict simulations

Bingo. That's exactly where it comes from; before D&D was D&D, it was an offshoot of a medieval-ish wargame, Chainmail. PCs grew out of elite units, races were classes because elves/dwarves/etc. were their own units, and so forth.

When people switched over from OD&D to 1e, people started calling the folks who still played OD&D grognards because they were both "old guard" and mostly wargamers.

When 2e rolled around, people switched to 2e and lumped the 1e players in with the old grognards, and the cycle continued up through now, when 4e players are D&Ders and 1e-3e players are "grognards."
#5
altondelamourne
Jun 20, 2008 6:31:13 Actually, Grognard is from the Napoleonic era. It was used to explain the older soldiers who were highly experienced. The actual translation for it is 'grumbler' because they would grumble as they did their work.

It also does have a heavy connotation towards veteran wargamers.

Now a days I guess they try and say that those that complain about the new system are somehow 'grognards'. How they should be compared to old french soldiers is beyond me. But there are my two cents.
#6
eldritch_lord
Jun 21, 2008 13:04:18
Actually, Grognard is from the Napoleonic era. It was used to explain the older soldiers who were highly experienced.[...]

It also does have a heavy connotation towards veteran wargamers.

[...]How they should be compared to old french soldiers is beyond me. But there are my two cents.

As was mentioned, the connection was originally made between Napoleon's Old Guard combat veterans and the "old guard" wargaming veterans when RPGs started to be made; both grumbled about lots of changes being made and both tended to be very traditional.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 isaacc Jun 19, 2008 9:26:45	I have now several times seen the term grognard used here to refer to role-players. What gives? Grognard has nothing to do with role-players and role-playing. Aside from its original meaning of an old soldier, it is used all throughout gaming to mean a wargamer as in those monster conflict simulations. Is this something new? .
#2 farmer42_dup Jun 19, 2008 9:35:49	Actually, it isn't specific to war gamers. It's been used for a while now to describe the gamers who choose to play older games instead of new rulesets. Or, the old guard. Which is why it's used.
#3 apollyonschosen Jun 19, 2008 12:25:21	With a very negative connotation i might add. Very sad.
#4 eldritch_lord Jun 19, 2008 13:25:14	it is used all throughout gaming to mean a wargamer as in those monster conflict simulations Bingo. That's exactly where it comes from; before D&D was D&D, it was an offshoot of a medieval-ish wargame, Chainmail. PCs grew out of elite units, races were classes because elves/dwarves/etc. were their own units, and so forth. When people switched over from OD&D to 1e, people started calling the folks who still played OD&D grognards because they were both "old guard" and mostly wargamers. When 2e rolled around, people switched to 2e and lumped the 1e players in with the old grognards, and the cycle continued up through now, when 4e players are D&Ders and 1e-3e players are "grognards."
#5 altondelamourne Jun 20, 2008 6:31:13	Actually, Grognard is from the Napoleonic era. It was used to explain the older soldiers who were highly experienced. The actual translation for it is 'grumbler' because they would grumble as they did their work. It also does have a heavy connotation towards veteran wargamers. Now a days I guess they try and say that those that complain about the new system are somehow 'grognards'. How they should be compared to old french soldiers is beyond me. But there are my two cents.
#6 eldritch_lord Jun 21, 2008 13:04:18	Actually, Grognard is from the Napoleonic era. It was used to explain the older soldiers who were highly experienced.[...] It also does have a heavy connotation towards veteran wargamers. [...]How they should be compared to old french soldiers is beyond me. But there are my two cents. As was mentioned, the connection was originally made between Napoleon's Old Guard combat veterans and the "old guard" wargaming veterans when RPGs started to be made; both grumbled about lots of changes being made and both tended to be very traditional.