2) Have 1-2 class per day, easier to focus on learning one thing at a time.
3) Graduate highschool at 16, give people responsibility for their own life earlier.
4) Give 2 years of free/subsidised collage/trade school, educated work forces make cooler things.
1) Make school year round, smaller breaks more often rather then the huge summer break.
2) Have 1-2 class per day, easier to focus on learning one thing at a time.
3) Graduate highschool at 16, give people responsibility for their own life earlier.
4) Give 2 years of free/subsidised collage/trade school, educated work forces make cooler things.
I think I would eliminate many of the tracking programs in place where students are divided according to perceived ability. Remove "coffee time" discussion style classes (classes where students and teachers basically shoot the breeze). Deal with in class behavior problems more pro-actively. I have been told by friends who are teachers that 1-2 bad kids in a class, can really drag everyone else down. Enact standards that make sense, but stop allowing a state like Texas from being the editorial board for our text books.
On a serious note though, when I was in school there were students who simply refused to learn because they could make more money running drugs and guns for gangs than they would in a real job.
There has to be a reform of the student before you can reform the school system.
My father's teacher's response to a student getting lippy and cussing the teacher: take student and throw him across the classroom into a wall. Now-a-days that would be a lawsuit against the teacher, but, back then, the parent's reaction was that their child deserved it.
Bring back in-class capital punishment scaled for the offense being punished.
My father's teacher's response to a student getting lippy and cussing the teacher: take student and throw him across the classroom into a wall. Now-a-days that would be a lawsuit against the teacher, but, back then, the parent's reaction was that their child deserved it.
You mean CORPORAL punishment. Capital punishment is the death penalty.
You mean CORPORAL punishment. Capital punishment is the death penalty.
Probably, but you have to admit, after the first in-class capital punishment, I doubt there would be any more discipline problems.
In no particular order:
1) Each class is held only once a week.
2) Security cameras in the halls and classrooms.
3) Maximum class size of 25 students (I think 30 is the current maximum).
4) Funding for schools would be based on school size (Max # of students), not attendance.
5) Funding raised through millages is given to the state educational system and not to area schools.
6) Partial Privatization: Let higher performing schools charge a limited fee for attendance (no more
than $1,000 per year, and 10-20% of this fee goes into the state educational funding).
7) Greater focus on Math, Science, and Writing.
8) Replace current federally mandated testing with tests at the completion of each level: Gradeschool,
Middleschool, and Highschool.
9) Don't hold students back. Instead, offer afterschool or evening classes for failing students (these
classes become mandatory once a student's grade drops below a C- ).
That's all I can think of off the top of my head.
1) Make school year round, smaller breaks more often rather then the huge summer break.
2) Have 1-2 class per day, easier to focus on learning one thing at a time.
3) Graduate highschool at 16, give people responsibility for their own life earlier.
4) Give 2 years of free/subsidised collage/trade school, educated work forces make cooler things.
Number 4.
Though change that to four years. By the end of high school you would have an associate's degree/whatever or certification in at least one trade.
Current high school would be pretty much shunted down to middle school and middle school would shunted down to grades 4 and 5
My approach to education is not popular, I know.
Take the responsibility for education of children out of the hands of The State, and put it in the hands of the parents where it belongs.
My approach to education is not popular, I know.
[link]
Not entirely unheard of.
Take the responsibility for education of children out of the hands of The State, and put it in the hands of the parents where it belongs.
My approach to education is not popular, I know.
I have a counter proposal.
The government should take children immediately after birth. Their education begins immediately as well; carried out by lobotomized brainwashed drones that are undyingly loyal to the state. All references to failure by the state should be stricken from all text books (oh wait, that already happens). Education will focus on patriotism, mathematics, applied science, and linguistics; with the ultimate goal of our union becoming a single, world-wide entity that eventually spreads to the stars.
And of course, the government should be controlled by me. (Now accepting applications for toadies!)
Anything less than these reforms is only ... meh.
To be honest though, I don't trust the state to educate correctly, I don't trust the private sector to educate correctly, and I don't trust parents to educate correctly. Of the three, I probably trust the private sector the most, as long as the government regulates it a bit...
I don't trust the state to educate correctly, I don't trust the private sector to educate correctly, and I don't trust parents to educate correctly.
True.
To be honest though, I don't trust the state to educate correctly, I don't trust the private sector to educate correctly, and I don't trust parents to educate correctly. Of the three, I probably trust the private sector the most, as long as the government regulates it a bit...
At least in the states the government is democratically elected, which probably has a moderating impact on the education system. In the private sector anybody with money to invest can start a school, and people will just start attending schools that suit their world view. Don't like evolution? Go to school A. Don't like your kids learning about Black History? Go to school B. Don't care for the constitution? Go to school C. I realize Americans love their freedom. And that is one of the great things about America. But I hope Americans realize that a fractured education system like that will result in a fractured, tribal society, and potentially lead to political turmoil down the road.
[...] I hope Americans realize that a fractured education system like that will result in a fractured, tribal society, and potentially lead to political turmoil down the road.
... "will lead"? Honey, it's already here. The major tribes are Red and Blue, and all the smaller tribes end up aligning themselves with the bigger ones sooner or later for protection. When they meet, chaos ensues.
You mean CORPORAL punishment. Capital punishment is the death penalty.
Probably, but you have to admit, after the first in-class capital punishment, I doubt there would be any more discipline problems.
Honestly, I imagine that you would instead end up with no more students. ;)
You mean CORPORAL punishment. Capital punishment is the death penalty.
Probably, but you have to admit, after the first in-class capital punishment, I doubt there would be any more discipline problems.
From that particular student, perhaps, at least. Still, it kinda wastes his/her future prospects.
Anyway, I don't have nearly enough experience with the US educational system to comment, but I'm not sure it's all THAT bad either. One thing I noted when we had a few US exchange students in our high school - they take much less science classes. I think there could be more of that - I wasn't that keen on physics, for example, but I think it can be useful if you are taught a modern and well-structured curriculum.
[...] I hope Americans realize that a fractured education system like that will result in a fractured, tribal society, and potentially lead to political turmoil down the road.
... "will lead"? Honey, it's already here. The major tribes are Red and Blue, and all the smaller tribes end up aligning themselves with the bigger ones sooner or later for protection. When they meet, chaos ensues.
I am talking on a much deeper level. Right now the US still has relatively normal partisan division in my opinion. But I think that is because the majority of adults still went through the normal public and private systems of education. But now with charter schools and home schooling (which I believe really gathered steam in the past 10 years), you have an entire generation that will be raised on hand selected facts. Some kids will be taught the theory of evolution, some will be taught that God created the world in 6 days. Some will be taught american history as historians see it, others will be taught american history as glenn beck or howard zinn see it. Some will be taught that Obama was the first black president, others will be taught that he was the first Kenyan born, illegally elected president. I can see the US surviving in its present politcal climate. I can't see it surviving if the partisan groups today are able to drop out of mainstream education and create their own polticallly tailored cirriculum.
Also, people who don't want to learn or disrupt classes are to be removed from their homes and cities and placed in a boarding school where they shall remain until they have learned to be an acceptable addition to the human race. (That includes getting a diploma as well as learning to behave)
This boarding school shall start giving out enforced labor and reduced spare time for anyone who reaches the age of 20 without getting a diploma.
Everyone shall contribute to society.
I had the opportunity to teach in a high school that had three two hour periods per day instead of six one hour periods and a study hall. Gives an extra night to finish homework assignments and an extra hour for tests.
I would continue ensuring that students get a well-rounded education. Core subjects are necessary for a common understanding, but fine arts for creativity, physical education for overall health, and cultural studies are just as necessary.
I also support allowing students who are not destined for college to take trades oriented classes.
I think uniform dress codes are fantastic, both for the distractions that this removes and for the money that it saves parents.
And I would increase education funding to allow for salaries that make the teaching profession more attractive and allow for more competitive hiring and retention programs.
Plenty of opportunities abound for parents that choose to be involved in their kids' education. If parents choose not to be involved in their kids' education, then that is one less person my kids have to compete against for professional positions in their adult life. Don't see the problem.
In my experience, the public educational system is jim dandy. My kids are getting a more advanced curriculum than I received. I had a more advanced curriculum than my parents. They had a more advanced curriculum than their parents.
Plenty of opportunities abound for parents that choose to be involved in their kids' education. If parents choose not to be involved in their kids' education, then that is one less person my kids have to compete against for professional positions in their adult life. Don't see the problem.
Until of course you try to get a job in the modern world with only a high school education and be in your mid 20s the only things you'll find are Lower Class Jobs.
As it stands right now not having a Degree or some kind of Trade Certification means you are Doomed to an existence of living on the Poverty Line in America. Forever. Because High School is a joke and everyone knows it. Hence why that Diploma means nothing in the modern world.
Which is why it has to be totally changed from the ground up.
In my experience, the public educational system is jim dandy. My kids are getting a more advanced curriculum than I received. I had a more advanced curriculum than my parents. They had a more advanced curriculum than their parents.
Plenty of opportunities abound for parents that choose to be involved in their kids' education. If parents choose not to be involved in their kids' education, then that is one less person my kids have to compete against for professional positions in their adult life. Don't see the problem.
Until of course you try to get a job in the modern world with only a high school education and be in your mid 20s the only things you'll find are Lower Class Jobs.
As it stands right now not having a Degree or some kind of Trade Certification means you are Doomed to an existence of living on the Poverty Line in America. Forever. Because High School is a joke and everyone knows it. Hence why that Diploma means nothing in the modern world.
Which is why it has to be totally changed from the ground up.
I am not so sure this is an education problem, as much as it is cultural. A college degree now is not worth what it was 10-20 years ago. I will agree with people that American Highschools and colleges could use improvement. But I don't think the quality has declined in the past two decades. What has changed is more people have them, and businesses expect graduate degrees for work that used to only take a high school or undergrad degree. What needs to change, is the corporate culture. Because with the present cost of education, this level of student loan debt is simply not sustainable. A major killer of economies is people being deep in debt. If someone owes hundreds of dollars a month for 20-30 years (which is what many college students are staring down), they can't buy as much stuff. And if they want to buy more stuff, the only way to do it is acquire more debt. I am no historian, but I seem to recall one major issue that made the depression so bad, was that most of the country was living in debt and beyond its means when the depression hit.
Could anyone give a list of the kind of things a high-school student learns, and at roughly what age his high school graduation is?
A range from Prealgebra, and remedial maths, to What's more or less entry level Calculus. (Senior year)
But your Diploma doesn't say what range of studies you took and the courses you take for the most part DO NOT count as college or tech school credit hours.
Oh and you can just Easy your way through it by fufiilling some awfully low credit reqs for math and reading etc. You know things you SHOULD need to know by taking easy courses like Home Education, or any number of "vocational" classes.
In which the latter is more or less sit around and do nothing pretty much for an hour and a half.
You can presently graduate in America if you are an Elementary or maybe Junior High level student. Which is partly why the Diploma means nothing.
In my experience, the public educational system is jim dandy. My kids are getting a more advanced curriculum than I received. I had a more advanced curriculum than my parents. They had a more advanced curriculum than their parents.
Plenty of opportunities abound for parents that choose to be involved in their kids' education. If parents choose not to be involved in their kids' education, then that is one less person my kids have to compete against for professional positions in their adult life. Don't see the problem.
Until of course you try to get a job in the modern world with only a high school education and be in your mid 20s the only things you'll find are Lower Class Jobs.
As it stands right now not having a Degree or some kind of Trade Certification means you are Doomed to an existence of living on the Poverty Line in America. Forever. Because High School is a joke and everyone knows it. Hence why that Diploma means nothing in the modern world.
Which is why it has to be totally changed from the ground up.
Actually, that may well be your experience... but it is not everyone's. Certainly not mine. I had only high school education until very recently. The only working class jobs I had were during high school as summer jobs, and the one immediately after (security guard). After that it was sales and office jobs that were decidedly middle class. That's with only high school.
And that's not just me; loads of others at the various jobs I've had were in similar situations. In fact, in the next few years a lot of people are saying that it will be quite different thanks to a labour shortage created when the baby boomers retire in larger and larger numbers. I don't know if I'd rely on that, but it's possible.
For the record less than 30k a year (take home) isn't middle class. It's low class.
There's three different grades of diplomas, with the lowest forcing you to go and learn a trade (practical education, learn to be a carpenter/network maintainer/store employee, I'm guessing this is what you mean with "trade school"?) and the higher two being endpoints, if you want, but allowing you to continue with higher education or university if you want.
I did the highest level of high school available, and completed a technical profile... that's mathematics, phsysics, chemistry and biology; we learned algebra, calculus, forces, electricity, working of atoms, radiation, DNA, genetics, redox reactions, acid/base reactions, to name a few things...
It's hard to compare without actually seeing the exact topics handled on another system of education.
Joe Retard, who took Study hall, and "shop class" (which really is you sitting around doing nothing in both cases) has the same piece of paper as the "Honors Student" with a 4.0 gpa.
You get nothing out of high school over here in the end other than making your debt for college or tech school slightly smaller by passing placement tests.
EDIT: We do have levels of Diploma (at least in Ohio). For example, I graduated with an Ohio Diploma With Honors. There was (is) also a Dip with Merit and another one that's one step above the one I got. I can't recall what it's name is, but I graduated like 14 years ago or something.
Then again, I've seen plenty of college graduates and know exactly what a degree means all too often.
Yeah my company had a "work-learning" project where schoolgoing kids could work here for credit, and I've actually had a guy who was in his last year of his MBO (pretty much trade school) and was about to graduate as a computer-programmer.
He couldn't even tell me what "variable" meant. He could do, literally, nothing when it came to programming.
It made me sad to learn that this person would soon be a professional webdeveloper.
Yeah my company had a "work-learning" project where schoolgoing kids could work here for credit, and I've actually had a guy who was in his last year of his MBO (pretty much trade school) and was about to graduate as a computer-programmer.
He couldn't even tell me what "variable" meant. He could do, literally, nothing when it came to programming.
It made me sad to learn that this person would soon be a professional webdeveloper.
It's really frightening to think about. My fiancee works in HR and she's got all kinds of stories about these high quality college grads that make you wonder how any business survives today. Her company has a strict no-promote policy for people without degrees. She's far superior (and has been rated so in reviews documenting this) at what she does than these other folks but she can't get the nod. Even if her boss would do it, it just can't be done. Luckily she'll be done with her first degree this year so hopefully they'll bump her up to where she deserves to be. If not, she's gone. But anyhoo, a lot of times people that deserve the job cuz they're better don't get it cuz they have no papers. Oh, and college gives you - in a crapton of cases, anyway - nothing in the way of job prep (doctors, etc obviously not part of this group). You learn your job on the job. So it's just elitism for the most part. And incredibly stupid.
Fortunatly I'm in the programming/game design business, which has very limited meaningful diploma's. Most of the scene still runs on what you can really do, not what papers you have. I'm very glad for that.
But I'm still going to get a degree in education, just to have a paper, in case they stop behaving smart and start judging people on their diplomas instead of their abilities.
Because with the present cost of education, this level of student loan debt is simply not sustainable.
... ?
I've been taking out student loans the entire time I've been going to college. Once I graduate and get a job, even if I end up getting low-balled, so long as I manage to live on at most twice what I'm living on now, I can pay off all my loans inside of five years.
Most people I know that have graduated have paid off their loans in similar amounts of time.
It's not really the loans itself, it's if you're irresponsible and don't live within your means. And that goes for if the debt is from student loans, credit card debt, house loans, car loans, or whatever. The trick is to not live extravagantly just because you can make the minimum payment.
Re: Diplomas
My high school diploma says "with honors", but that's about it. To get anything interesting, what classes I took, how well I did in them, and so-on, you have to look at my transcript. Same for when I get my bachelors. It will just say I've gotten the degree, and if anyone wants more detail they'll need to get a transcript.
Isn't that normal?
Re: High School
Let me see... high school had weird graduation requirements. I was in Pre-calc in my senior year, but when I was a freshman there was a senior in my math class there who was going to graduate. So they allowed you to get away with pretty much anything. I think the school's methodology was pretty much they would graduate in four years with however much education you managed to get in that time, letting you excel if you did (and they had a lot of AP courses availible for those that did) or flounder if that was your thing.
It was really quite odd. There were some good, useful classes, but there wasn't really anything to encourage people to not just get by with the bare minimum.
). Oh, funny note. My fiancee's boss actually asked her how her schooling an' stuff was going during a review. One of his questions 'How much of what you're learning will help you with what you do now?'. Her answer 'Nothing'. ;) She's getting a friggin' Business degree and what they're teaching her now - allegedly stuff that'll help you in the workforce - is totally irrelevant. But, you know, she won't be promotable until she gets that paper. You know, the one that won't help her in any way to do her job better.Because with the present cost of education, this level of student loan debt is simply not sustainable.
... ?
I've been taking out student loans the entire time I've been going to college. Once I graduate and get a job, even if I end up getting low-balled, so long as I manage to live on at most twice what I'm living on now, I can pay off all my loans inside of five years.
This may be the case for you. But I would honestly re-check your numbers. Where did you get your wage estimates and cost of living estimates. I don't know anyone who has graduated in the last decade who will pay off their student loans in 5 years. Most people I know are looking at 15-30 years, and I wouldn't say they are living beyong their means. I also hear monthly payments ranging between 200-1,500 dollars). When you consider the cost of an apartment, the cost of food, health insurance, electric, water, gas, etc it can leave very little wiggle room.
Most people I know that have graduated have paid off their loans in similar amounts of time.
This is very suprising to me. Are these people entering high pay fields?
It's not really the loans itself, it's if you're irresponsible and don't live within your means. And that goes for if the debt is from student loans, credit card debt, house loans, car loans, or whatever. The trick is to not live extravagantly just because you can make the minimum payment.
I am sure this is the case for many people, but the numbers are also swelling incredibly as the prospects of higher wages are going down. I really don't think what you are saying is true for most people.
Yeah my company had a "work-learning" project where schoolgoing kids could work here for credit, and I've actually had a guy who was in his last year of his MBO (pretty much trade school) and was about to graduate as a computer-programmer.
He couldn't even tell me what "variable" meant. He could do, literally, nothing when it came to programming.
It made me sad to learn that this person would soon be a professional webdeveloper.
That's disgusting. Last year I had to (in a group with three other students) write a compiler for C from type-checking on1. The previous semester I wrote large parts of a simple Linux operating system2. My first two years were spent on pretty much nothing but learning to be a damn fine programmer3.
What kind of program allows someone to graduate without being able to program? Can he at least tackle things at the theoretical/design stage, if he can't do the monkey-work himself? Any concept of secure programming practices, project-life cycles, and all that jazz?
________
1At the end of the class we wrote a simple parser/scanner, but as the professor pointed out, writing a parser/scanner for C takes months, which is why we skipped that step.
2This was much more of a "let's analyze this one specific part of the kernel and **** with it" then a "let's build an X from the foundation up" type of class, but still.
3Data structures, principles of programming languages, algorithms, learning Assembly, C, Java, being exposed to LISP, ADA, Fortran, Cobol and so-on, complex databases, advanced simulations and modelling, etc.
The kind of thing even a rookie should be able to do in an hour.
It took him three weeks.
Although I'm assuming that what you are doing is a university level grade? Those sound like the kind of things I had during the short time I studied Computersciences at the university.
This may be the case for you. But I would honestly re-check your numbers.
I'm currently living below the poverty line (even when you count the loans as income) while supporting me and the SO, though thankfully I'm not the only earner of the household now1, just the primary one. The average wage for a graduate from my school with my degree is between 40 and 50k, with higher not being uncommon, particularly if I'm willing to go into government work. I've checked the numbers, and even if I end up in a place with a very high cost of living like DC, New York or LA (hey, a [British slang for cigarette] can dream), I'll be able to put a fair chunk towards paying off my loans.
This is very suprising to me. Are these people entering high pay fields?
The average salary for graduates from my school is close to 50k a year. Pretty much all hard sciences. The closest we get to soft sciences is our (small) psychology department.
I am sure this is the case for many people, but the numbers are also swelling incredibly as the prospects of higher wages are going down. I really don't think what you are saying is true for most people.
Of course it isn't true for most people. Most people aren't responsible. But that doesn't mean it's the fault of student loans.
________
1YES! After a year and a half searching, the SO finally got a job. Sure, it's menial grunt work, but it means we can eat more then cardboard.
Nothing at all. We had to guide him through all the steps to create a simple javascript widget that allowed a user to open up a notepad, put in some text, and then save that text and close the notepad.
The kind of thing even a rookie should be able to do in an hour.
It took him three weeks.
... That's abhorrent.
Although I'm assuming that what you are doing is a university level grade? Those sound like the kind of things I had during the short time I studied Computersciences at the university.
Yeah, Bachelors of Science in Computer Science. But still, if you're going to bill your people as "computer programmers", then they should at least be able to program.
Yeah. I felt sorry for the kid, the rest of his school, and any company that would hire one of them.
This may be the case for you. But I would honestly re-check your numbers.
I'm currently living below the poverty line (even when you count the loans as income) while supporting me and the SO, though thankfully I'm not the only earner of the household now1, just the primary one. The average wage for a graduate from my school with my degree is between 40 and 50k, with higher not being uncommon, particularly if I'm willing to go into government work. I've checked the numbers, and even if I end up in a place with a very high cost of living like DC, New York or LA (hey, a [British slang for cigarette] can dream), I'll be able to put a fair chunk towards paying off my loans.This is very suprising to me. Are these people entering high pay fields?
The average salary for graduates from my school is close to 50k a year. Pretty much all hard sciences. The closest we get to soft sciences is our (small) psychology department.I am sure this is the case for many people, but the numbers are also swelling incredibly as the prospects of higher wages are going down. I really don't think what you are saying is true for most people.
________
1YES! After a year and a half searching, the SO finally got a job. Sure, it's menial grunt work, but it means we can eat more then cardboard.
A degree in the hard sciences is better in terms of employment and salary than a BA (most of the people I am thinking of fall into the latter group. Still I wouldn't bank on the 50K. I would assume 30K and I would also allow 6 months to find employment in this economy.
Of course it isn't true for most people. Most people aren't responsible. But that doesn't mean it's the fault of student loans.
That isn't my point. I am saying a lack of responsibility isn't what is making things hard for most of these people. It is that they repaying under a system that had assumed continued and rapid growth of the economy. Once the economy tanked, people found it harder to restructure their payments. I know one person who, had she graduated in 2005 could probably have very easily settled on a 250 dollar a month payment plan. All she was able to get was 1,300/month. The problem was, once she graduated she was only able to find a 25K position. This is a very common scenario. And frankly to just chalk up the problem to a lack of individual responsibility is the same kind of Randian nonsense that got us into this economic mess in the first place.
A degree in the hard sciences is better in terms of employment and salary than a BA[.]
And that's why I didn't go to art school.
I am saying a lack of responsibility isn't what is making things hard for most of these people.
And as student loans are some of the nicest loans you'll ever get, I'm saying that if student loans are giving you trouble then that's most likely your own fault. Always? Course not. But blaming the student loans is pretty darn curious to me.
Now, you can disagree if you like, but you'll need more then anecdotal evidence to give me pause.
A degree in the hard sciences is better in terms of employment and salary than a BA[.]
And that's why I didn't go to art school.I am saying a lack of responsibility isn't what is making things hard for most of these people.
And as student loans are some of the nicest loans you'll ever get, I'm saying that if student loans are giving you trouble then that's most likely your own fault. Always? Course not. But blaming the student loans is pretty darn curious to me.
Now, you can disagree if you like, but you'll need more then anecdotal evidence to give me pause.
I am pretty sure the average amount of student debt is 20,000 dollars, with an average 10 year pay off of about 250 a month. Again, the problem is, the economy has changed drastically recently. I am affraid I can't offer you any more than anecdotal evidence. But I do know I am hearing a lot more about people who owe huge sums every month and are staring down a 20 year payment plan that basically keeps them in poverty. It is very easy to pin the blame on the student; but the fact is the student loan companies know the numbers much better than they ever could. So I think they hold a lot of the responsibility as well. At a certain point, lending becomes unethical if it forces people into a near lifetime of poverty and built on faulty promises.
Student loans are the nicest you will ever get? I don't know about that. Yes the interest rates are lower than regular loans, but the consequnces for going into default on a student loan are way more serious. You can't get out of them through bakruptcy, and it is very easy for student loan companies to garnish your wages. Add to that most people making this huge financial decision are all of 18-22, and have no idea how the real world works.
I think the major problems with education are a lack of standards (high variability), low standards (a HS diploma is not valuable), and lack of focus (many people don't know what they can do afterwards).
Its probably not incredibly feasible and the graduation rates would probably be pretty low, but those are my thoughts.
Diplomas: Mine did not specify honors or not.
College debt: I think it is an issue of the idea that everyone needs to go to college mindset. This puts many people who frankly do not belong in college, in college. They will often times waste time accumulating debt and possibly wind up with a degree which may not be incredibly valuable. I believe this is more an issue with people who go to college because everyone else does and less with some problem with college loans. Most state schools are quite cheap (relatively).
Meh, defaulting on a student loan really isn't all that bad. They send it to a special collections thing, give you a restructured payment plan and a second chance to get on board. If you meet all the (incredibly simple - thanks to reduced monthly playment) requirements, you get to re-do your loan and pay it off without any penalties or anything. Uhh ... don't ask me how I would know about that, though.
OR they take you to court and the judge orders your wages garnished.
Also what you are describing isn't as easy as it was in say 05 these days. It is much harder to get a reduced monthly payment now than it was just a few years ago.
College debt: I think it is an issue of the idea that everyone needs to go to college mindset. This puts many people who frankly do not belong in college, in college. They will often times waste time accumulating debt and possibly wind up with a degree which may not be incredibly valuable. I believe this is more an issue with people who go to college because everyone else does and less with some problem with college loans. Most state schools are quite cheap (relatively).
But the problem is everyone is expected to go to college these days. Without a College degree you can pretty much kiss a career good bye. Back in the 80s and 90s, companies would still hire people who had only a high school diploma (because honestly that is all many positions really required) but it isn't like that anymore.
If I would revamp the education system, I would try to make less variability in each grade. As people have said, you can graduate high school learning college material or doing basic algebra. The standards should be set at a specific level. Throughout school (all grades), students should be left behind if they cannot achieve a certain standard so that students should be able to achieve the minimum standard by the end of high school. I would also focus the last few years of high school towards a track, which could be a technical or a college track.
Welcome to the European education system
OR they take you to court and the judge orders your wages garnished.
Also what you are describing isn't as easy as it was in say 05 these days. It is much harder to get a reduced monthly payment now than it was just a few years ago.
Meh. They didn't do it to me. Or my friend. A friendly chap actually called me. Told me his name, what he was calling about - you know, the usual. Then he did something remarkable. He asked me what I could afford to pay per month. Yep. Asked me to set my payment. Well, he tossed back another number and *blammo* we was in business. That number has stayed the same ever since then. All I had to do was pay 10 months on time and call in from time to time to check in and see how things were going. I did so and everything worked out. Even after all that (and worse), I managed to eventually climb to a 760 credit score. I know a crapton of people that did everything 'the right way' that can barely hit 650. So yeah.
But that was a while ago. Today? Yeah, today you're likely boned. They don't play so nice anymore. I just happened to get lucky, I guess, with when all my stpuid BS happened. Self created stupid BS, of course, but you get the picture. I was stupid when it was still possible to escape being damned by it. And I wasn't super stupid, either. Just dumb enough. ;)
EDIT: Noticed I misspelled 'stupid'. I was gonna change it, but instead I'm gonna own it.
But the problem is everyone is expected to go to college these days. Without a College degree you can pretty much kiss a career good bye. Back in the 80s and 90s, companies would still hire people who had only a high school diploma (because honestly that is all many positions really required) but it isn't like that anymore.
I agree its a problem with current job demands. Obama said recently that a HS diploma was no longer good enough. (Although I think he should try to do something about it.)
So with my revamping of the education system, the trade/technical schooling option for non-college bound students would hopefully allow many people to get jobs without a college degree.
The problem is that since people think they need a college degree to make 40k/year, jobs can require a college degree. People need to realize that they can get a better job with their degree so the 40k job will start to hire HS grads. I guess its a supply/demand type situation, but based on perceptions.
Welcome to the European education system
For someone who's quite a lover of America and a Republican, I really like Europe (or at least what I've seen).
So with my revamping of the education system, the trade/technical schooling option for non-college bound students would hopefully allow many people to get jobs without a college degree.
The problem is that since people think they need a college degree to make 40k/year, jobs can require a college degree. People need to realize that they can get a better job with their degree so the 40k job will start to hire HS grads. I guess its a supply/demand type situation, but based on perceptions.
That might work, but you will also need to redirect the US economy for that to happen. There just aren't as many trade jobs in the US as there used to be. I know a lot of people in skilled labor like consturction, and that sector is rapidly shrinking from what I am hearing. Granted, it could, and probably should, be regrown.
It does not even need to be specific to technical or trade schooling. It should just be some sort of skills training that can place them into jobs available. I have no idea what the vast majority of these jobs could be, but I imagine the skills for them can be taught at the end of high school.
It seems like we're (US society) just too focused on formal education and degrees.
It does not even need to be specific to technical or trade schooling. It should just be some sort of skills training that can place them into jobs available. I have no idea what the vast majority of these jobs could be, but I imagine the skills for them can be taught at the end of high school.
It seems like we're (US society) just too focused on formal education and degrees.
I agree with you entirely. But I think the problem is more than convincing students they don't need a degree. It really requires a massive cultural shift. Lets be honest with ourselves, does someone really need 4 years of education to work in a marketing department. I've worked in that field, and the actual work can, for the most part, be taught on the job. So long as the person paid attention in highschool, they'll be fine. I am not saying every highschool graduate should be given a marketing job. Just that we should really look more at the person's ability to perform. We started doing more testing during the interview, to gauge the person's potential. I frankly didn't care if the person had a BA or masters. All that mattered to me was if the person had "it". And they don't teach "it" in college.