Anyway, I went on Youtube to listen to how good the English dub is. Specifically, I watched a clip of Lelouch using his power for the very first time, where he orders a mass suicide.
It was a bit jarring to hear Lelouch with Ichigo's voice (Johnny Young Bosch). I keep getting the mental image of Lelouch wearing Ichigo's hollow mask in place of his Zero mask. Also, both are very different in personality; Lelouch is a cold, manipulative bastard while Ichigo is a hero that leaps before he looks.
I play another clip of Johnny Young Bosch as Lelouch, this time featuring Lelouch's diabolical laughter. I must say that Mr. Bosch's diabolical laughter sounds a lot more evil than Mr. Fukuyama's.
And speaking of Jun Fukuyama, I was really surprised to learn that Lelouch has Yumichika's voice in the original Japanese. Hm... Both are bishounen characters with overpowered abilities, so I guess it fits!
I guess I will be getting the Code Geass DVDs, since the English voice acting isn't so bad. What about you?
Most of all though, I prefer listening to the dialogue than reading subtitles. If I have to read subtitles, it distracts me from watching what is happening. I also think that the majority of English dubs are very good these days.
Reading subtitles and listening to the original Japanese is nothing compared to that!
ALL HAIL FINLANDIA!
-Joni
Listen to it in ENGLISH for the real Code Geass experiance. :P
As an example, compare the opening to Robotech with the opening to the original Macross series.
I don't watch Code Gay-ass; my Y Chromosomes cannot repel Bishonen of that magnitude!
Lastly, I watched all of DBZ subbed when I was quite young, and I now read at over 400 words per minute; I can scan up to 450. ;)
the other point of contention is "is this series out in north america and can i get it?"
i live in a small town with no real "anime" community. a few of us at the FLGS will bring the subject up once in a month or something, but it's not that popular here. so box sets are hard to come by. this is made worse by the fact that i don't own a credit card to buy things online with.
it's VERY hard to get non-shonen in this area. while bleach or one piece are cool, every now and then i get this urge to watch something like Toradora (which admittingly isn't finished or translated yet) or Minami-ke (not finished or translated yet also). those are harder to get in my area. for those series, i've only got japanese with subtitles.
other times i'm willing to settle with subtitles until i can get my hands on the english ones, like the new Slayers Revolutions or FMA 2 (i've seen the preview, it's official and i'm a happy man!). those are 2 series i'm going to finish the subs first by virtue of being a ravenous fan and i'm going to get the english versions.
i have to admit, i like the "slice of life" genre much better if it's got subtitles. i've found that sometimes these series get the cultures or jokes shuffled around for the sake of localization, and when your show is about "life in japan" and you take out the japan, it looses a bit.
i guess my general motto with anime is: "watch it in whatever form you can, buy it if possible though."
Even though I usually like the Japanese voices a bit better, I like to multitask, which is a lot harder when I have to read subtitles. So usually I listen in English.
QFT
As far as anime goes, female anime characters, dubbed or original, have annoying voices and I don't like to listen to them.
i don't care much, unless the acting is truly horrible or they 4kids'ed a series. case in point: One Piece. great series IMO, but you need to watch the actual series, not the one that 4kids butchered. i've heard good things about the funimation ones, but 4kids turned me off translations for that series.
Yeah, the funimation series is a lot better than the 4kids version. I started out on the manga for that series, and was soundly disappointed by what was available on broadcast television. I was relieved when they started releasing the redubbed, unedited version on DVD.
If you disagree we're enemies.
When I watch foriegn movies, I always listen to it with the dubs* on, however.
*Now, several days after writing it, I realize that I said 'dubs' when I meant subtitles.
Tenchi muyo/universe: english > japanese
Cowboy bebop: English > Japanese
DBZ: English > Japanese (honestly goku in japanese is AWFUL)
Outlaw star: English > Japanese
BUT
Lucky Star: Japanese > English
Chobits: Japanese > English
Elfen Lied: tough call
Either way, it's not japanese, ITS "NIHONGO"!
My biggest problem is that, as I mentioned, so much is lost in translation, and you ARE watching a watered version of whatever the show is. At least dattebayo gives definitions of cross-cultural idioms, but if you watch a dubbed show/movie where they dub 'nii san' as 'big brother', then you've lost part of the value of the medium. This loss of intent, theme, and subject matter can ruin anime and foreign films, and it makes me sick when people whine they can't watch a film and read subtitles at the same time.
Either way, it's not japanese, ITS "NIHONGO"!
And it's not called Spanish, it's Español. It's not called French, it's Français. Swedes don't speak swedish, they speak Svensk. Russians don't speak Russian, they speak Russkiy. And so forth.
In the English language, the language that Japanese people speak is called Japanese. Insisting on using the Japanese words makes you needlessly pedantic.
I prefer listening to the dialogue than reading subtitles.
Me too. That's why I prefer to watch my anime without subtitles, in the original Japanese. I don't mind subtitles, though. As Joni-san said earlier, reading subtitles is second nature to Finns.
But I have gotten used to Subs over the years and I generally find the original voice acting to get across the emotions of the characters much better than english voicing.
And it's not called Spanish, it's Español. It's not called French, it's Français. Swedes don't speak swedish, they speak Svensk. Russians don't speak Russian, they speak Russkiy. And so forth.
In the English language, the language that Japanese people speak is called Japanese. Insisting on using the Japanese words makes you needlessly pedantic.
actually thats only part of it, me and I know quite a few others think "japanese" and "german" and so forth should stricken from the books, everyone should call languages by their names used by the native people.
so yes, english should say svenk, swedes should say english, and so forth.
this goes for country names too, germany becomes deutchland (or however you spell it) and so forth.
actually thats only part of it, me and I know quite a few others think "japanese" and "german" and so forth should stricken from the books, everyone should call languages by their names used by the native people.
so yes, english should say svenk, swedes should say english, and so forth.
this goes for country names too, germany becomes deutchland (or however you spell it) and so forth.
ugg that reaks of social worker Politically Correct bullcrap
actually thats only part of it, me and I know quite a few others think "japanese" and "german" and so forth should stricken from the books, everyone should call languages by their names used by the native people.
so yes, english should say svenk, swedes should say english, and so forth.
this goes for country names too, germany becomes deutchland (or however you spell it) and so forth.
Ain't gonna happen, at least not here. Foreign words and Finnish inflection just don't mix most of the time.
But hey, while we're at it, we should use the personal pronouns (or equivalent) of the language of the person spoken of. So if you're talking about me, you don't call me a "he," you call me a "hän."
...the acting is truly horrible or they 4kids'ed a series...
Another good example of 4kids fundamentally warping an anime series would have to be MegaMan NT Warrior. (What? I just really like Mega Man.)
The actually changed the characters' NAMES (other than the obvious original names-were-already changed situations for Rockman, Forte, Protoman, etc.)
For example: BombMan's name was changed to BlasterMan. Now when I think of a blaster, I think of either a laser gun or a trap type. What the heck do bombs have to do with blasting? The problem would have been worse if the English series had continued into Beast, where MMBN6's BlastMan would have caused significant confusion.
Other characters whose names were changed include FireMan (TorchMan), ColorMan (WackoMan? Honestly...), NapalmMan (MoltanicMan. At least this one is for a reason), FreezeMan (for no good reason, because it was changed to FridgeMan), and NeedleMan (SpikeMan).
Not to mention Naruto's annoying English-version-only catchphrase "Believe it!".
The other major complaint I have with anime is the Pokemon series. Please, just let it die. Ash has been around too long. The series should have AT LEAST changed main characters after the Johto arc.
Also: It's spelled Deutschland.
In essence, I agree with Psyguard.
ugg that reaks of social worker Politically Correct bullcrap
It has nothing to do with political correctness. Political correctness means not using racist terms, that's it.
Ain't gonna happen, at least not here. Foreign words and Finnish inflection just don't mix most of the time.
But hey, while we're at it, we should use the personal pronouns (or equivalent) of the language of the person spoken of. So if you're talking about me, you don't call me a "he," you call me a "hän."
Screw that, Finnish slightly angers me. Too many damned vowels. (I have a mild speech impediment and I have trouble saying vowels correctly. I see and hear Finnish and it frustrates me slightly.)
I prefer subtitles to dubbing. It is a travesty that people find it hard to read subtitles during a film. I mean, how lazy can you be? Why do you prefer dumbing down the creator's intent through loss via translation?
My biggest problem is that, as I mentioned, so much is lost in translation, and you ARE watching a watered version of whatever the show is. At least dattebayo gives definitions of cross-cultural idioms, but if you watch a dubbed show/movie where they dub 'nii san' as 'big brother', then you've lost part of the value of the medium. This loss of intent, theme, and subject matter can ruin anime and foreign films, and it makes me sick when people whine they can't watch a film and read subtitles at the same time.
?
Your point more or less fails to be sensical. If the movie is in a language you cannot understand, your already missing alot of the creators intent. Subtitles have to be translated as well (If they are to be of any use to people who don't understand the original language) and are thus subject to the same watering down and translation errors as redubbing. Changeing the content is not dubbing, it is editing and or censoring, a fully diffrent topic. What you do lose in a redub is the performance of the actors / voice actors.
As for me, the only anime I watch is whatever happens to be on the tele late at night. I live in america so this is always english dubs. (At least on the channels I watch.)
El Hazzard, however, should be watched in english.
The Japanese director and producer actually prefer the english dub.
Not that the Japanese track is bad, the english voice actors were just SO SPOT ON.
Iria: Zeiram the Animation - Prefer English, will watch in Japanese
Vandread - English is OK, but I have it in Japanese
Trigun - I prefer English, because it help the comedy be smoother
Excel Saga - I prefer in Japanese with an old fan sub. Original language is important for comedy
Death Note - I've heard enough of the English version to know I don't like it
Nausicca of the Valley of the Wind - MUST be in Japanese
Full Metal Panic - I prefer Japanese, just because it's what I saw first
Code Geass - I prefer Japanese, haven't seen it in English
Naruto - Must be in Japanese. I will not watch the English version
Heres an example from Advent Children.
English; Tifa" Cloud... are you alright?"
Japanese; Tifa" Cloud ! are you alright?"
Even though most english versions suck, there are a few exceptions, Cowboy Bebop, Golden Boy and Hellsing Ultimate are good.
Heres an example from Advent Children.
English; Tifa" Cloud... are you alright?"
Japanese; Tifa" Cloud ! are you alright?"
Even though most english versions suck, there are a few exceptions, Cowboy Bebop, Golden Boy and Hellsing Ultimate are good.
The english version 95% of the time sucks. It's the difference between DVD and Blueray. Some people don't care, but I and other hardcore fans like quality.
Corporate slaves like quality too. I wonder which ones like Bluray?
Yes, it's smarmy. It's a kiddie show.
I find most English translations don't really do the original Japanese script justice, particularly when it comes to cultural mores and idioms. Of course, this is also a fault of many subtitles, too. It doesn't matter whether it's a subtitle or a dub, translating "nii-san" into "big brother" is still massively wrong.
Similarly translating "sempai" into "upperclassman" is also pretty darned bad. For that matter, much of the suffix subtext going on when people suffix names with "san" or "sama" or "dono" is kind of lost as well.
I prefer to listen to the Japanese version of an anime because - well - it's MEANT to be viewed in Japanese. It makes the most sense in it. It's funnier, more dramatic, has more texture and substance.
Of course, you have to actually be able to understand Japanese somewhat to do that.
Shrug. I notice the dattebayos. They annoy me. They certainly annoy the heck out of the cast. In fact, Naruto's entire demeanor is annoying. He's judgmental, unsubtle, brash, and frequently quite stupid.
Yes, I watched the Shipuuden series. He's still much the same. Older, somewhat wiser, but in some ways a LOT more perverted than he used to be - he's growing up to be very much like his master Jira-iya.
No, he's NOT a normal kid. He's got a lot of issues, and lack of charm is one of the more obvious ones. Ino is a normal (ninja) kid. Naruto isn't.
Yes, I know his mega-Rasengan attack is awesome. It's also practically unusable. Not his fault, but it does kind of detract from the awesomeness of it. That said, Naruto's maturity comes from his experiences as a child. In many ways, he's much more mature than many adults in his world. In many other ways, he's just as juvenile as he's ever been.
I find most English translations don't really do the original Japanese script justice, particularly when it comes to cultural mores and idioms. Of course, this is also a fault of many subtitles, too. It doesn't matter whether it's a subtitle or a dub, translating "nii-san" into "big brother" is still massively wrong.
Similarly translating "sempai" into "upperclassman" is also pretty darned bad. For that matter, much of the suffix subtext going on when people suffix names with "san" or "sama" or "dono" is kind of lost as well.
That's why fansubs are usually better than any official subtitling. Fansubs usually leave such phrases untranslated, and insert notes to indicate meaning when needed. Most won't even try to convert word-play jokes into an English joke, but instead leave the joke intact and insert a note indicating what the joke was.
That's why fansubs are usually better than any official subtitling. Fansubs usually leave such phrases untranslated, and insert notes to indicate meaning when needed. Most won't even try to convert word-play jokes into an English joke, but instead leave the joke intact and insert a note indicating what the joke was.
Some of us would consider this a negative. If you're bloody well putting a note into the video, why not basically translate the joke? It makes no sense.
Also, um, isn't "nii-san" pretty much "big brother"?
Seriously, I'm sorry, but if I'm getting subs/dubs, I'm getting it because I don't speak/read Japanese. If half the bloody thing is still in Japanese, it kind of kills the experience for me.
I've not got a particular preference per se for dubs or subs. I've watched both, though not necessarily for the same show. Far as I figure, one or the other can end up better. *Shrugs*
Also, um, isn't "nii-san" pretty much "big brother"?
It would seem so, yes.
Except when you use it to refer to someone who isn't your elder brother.
Except when you use it to refer to someone who isn't your elder brother.
For instance, a fat younger brother. So, in the translation, they could've said, "...my brother, who although is younger than me, is also big, so big as to be be called my big brother."
Or maybe they meant it more as a term of enderement, "wha's up, mah nii-san from anothah mothah!? Gimme five, you glorious fool!"
Because some things just aren't translatable, or require more than just a simple word conversion for you to understand the point.
"Nii-san" is literally "elder brother," but that reference has a ton of obligatory relationship mores and customs that "big brother" simply doesn't properly convey. When you call someone "nii-san," it's understood that you're establishing this relationship with them. Whether or not he's actually your blood relation is peripheral, at best.
It's a lot like trying to translate the American English vernacular term "bros." It doesn't actually refer to guys who are your brothers, though it frequently also does. It wouldn't do to translate that into a foreign term that ONLY means "my genetic relative in the immediate family unit."
Similarly, I get a lot of translations that go:
"What are you doing now, all of a sudden?"
Yes, the Japanese words actually kind of say that, but a more colloquially correct translation that conveys a similar bent would go more along the lines of:
"What in blue blazes are you doing, now?"
with a possible subtext of:
"You've got to be kidding me."
As another example, a frequent colloquialism that usually gets translated as:
"What's this?"
Could probably be better translated as:
"What'cha doin'?" or "'Sup?"
Reasons for these variances depend on the colloquial mindsets distinct to Japan and the US, and also specifically to the varying connotations and colloquial usages to which the words "why," "who," "when," "where," and "what" are used in context. A word that's literally translated as "what" could be better translated as "when" or "why," but that's a matter of opinion, of course.
Yes, and some things simply cannot and should not be flippantly translated. How do you translate "genki girl" in English in two words? You can't. So you import the entire concept wholesale and simply use the word.
lulzapalooza:
Just as a note, nii-san is a term of respect, not a reference to size. So you don't refer to a person as "nii-san" just because he's fat.
It's a synamin...cinanim...synanym...you know what I'm failing to spell...
How's about this. Us Filipinos are significantly better versed in the English language than our Japanese neighbors. I speak English a lot better, in fact, than I speak Filipino, which is more than a little shameful, to be honest.
We have a similar term. "Kuya." It literally means "big brother," but it dosen't translate into English "big brother." It's untranslatable because people who speak English don't have the right word for those kinds of relationships, in general. dirtyfrank is realizing the nascent beginnings of this in American culture, but it's just not there, yet.
Similarly, the Chinese have the term "Diko" and "Ditse" which are ALSO similarly untranslatable.
...I spelt it wrong didn't I?
There is no synonym in English for nii-san. Just like there is no synonym in English for "young coconut" and "hard transparent ice-like snow on the ground."
Those terms are literal translations and are correct as far as the literal translations go, but they do lose meaning in translation. If you string enough of these in series, you utterly fail at conveying the correct meaning.
For instance, a villain who is teasing a hero in a death trap scene could ironically refer to him as "nii-san," especially if their previous relationship was trending toward that situation. Using the term "big brother" simply wouldn't convey the same sense of irony and neither would it convery the same sense of contempt and betrayal of social mores.
Here's another flip-side translation you might want to consider. How do you translate "liberal" in the sense you Americans use it politically? The literal sense of "liberal" has almost nothing to do with its political connotations, so much so that's its untranslatable. You "translate" the term into whatever literal word is used for "liberal," but you footnote it with an entry explaining the political meaning of the term.
...sheesh kids these days...
...I'm a kid these days...
Near.
In Asian sociology, family structure matters a good deal and forms the basis of one's role in the family, and in society at large. This has not received the brutal condemnation and subsequent elimination that Northern European traditional roles have had to survive.
For instance, in 17th century England, "first born" means more than literally just being born first in the family. It implies that you're the first-born son and furthermore implies that you're the heir and have an implicit obligation to carry out the family business, which if you don't you are automatically deemed something of a lazy-ass jerk.
"Nii-san" refers to the situation of a big brother. You have stringent social and moral imperatives to see to it that your younger siblings are well-off and cared for, and they have implicit imperatives to more or less respect you and do what you say almost in the manner of a parent. It's almost like half-parent. You could thumb your nose at your nii-san, but it's a very little bit like thumbing your nose at your father. You are not your nii-san's equal, even when you are his better in everything other than social standing.
This relationship is infrequently attached to guys who aren't actually related to you, and is sometimes used in a colloquial sense to imply an intention of a friendly casual social relationship along those lines, in the same manner that Americans call each other by their first names (which Japanese don't normally do).
The trick here is conveying the message in one word.
As far as I'm concerned, English rocks.
You only think that way probably because you only speak English. I speak 2 languages fluently, and can understand a conversation enough to get along in 5. My European translator friend understands a heck of a lot more.
Saying that English doesn't have the right words to translate an Eskimo monograph on the various usages of different snow types isn't bad-mouthing English. Most world languages have the same "fault." It's just that we're discussing English right now.
pigknight:
Shrug. It probably comes from your exposure to the Japanese-English subculture. "Nii-san" (as far as I understand it anyway) conveys a very traditional role in society. "Elder Brother" would be a more correct translation, actually, except that Americans don't normally go around colloquially calling their older brothers "elder brother," by way of a casual, friendly reference.
"Bro" is a more commonplace, casual term and I would argue that it's technically more correct, since from what I know of American culture, many of the typical roles nii-sans are supposed to play are subsumed by that title.
"Big Bro" has several OTHER references that aren't included in nii-san, and also conveys the "Big Brother" idea portrayed as a political nightmare in the book "1984" which is totally off.
"Nii-san" refers to the situation of a big brother. You have stringent social and moral imperatives to see to it that your younger siblings are well-off and cared for, and they have implicit imperatives to more or less respect you and do what you say almost in the manner of a parent. It's almost like half-parent. You could thumb your nose at your nii-san, but it's a very little bit like thumbing your nose at your father. You are not your nii-san's equal, even when you are his better in everything other than social standing.
We got these in America and we've always referred them to as either Brother or Sister. Another term is Sibling. Even if it is the youngest sibling of the group that takes care and watches after everyone they are still called brother/sister.
I guess one can make the argument that there is no direct/correct translation because there is not American word that holds the same meaning. I'd say that if I don't respect someone enough to call them a friend, even a sibling, then I will not call them a brother. To me, and I'm sure other Westerners, a term like brother or big brother already has a lot of that extra meaning attached to it. If it didn't then we no longer see a person as a friend or family member and would not recognize them as such.
lulzapalooza:
You only think that way probably because you only speak English. I speak 2 languages fluently, and can understand a conversation enough to get along in 5. My European translator friend understands a heck of a lot more.
Don't assume things. I don't only think it because I only speak english, I only think it because I only believe it. I speak french and hebrew, though with quite a bit of labor. I've spent a lot of time reading foreign works, however, and I'm confident in my ability to understand, digest, and appreciate even the most cultured Hebrew texts. I love english because I love the hobbled lilt of it, I love the funky lopsided beauty of it. I love the too and fro of the language. I love the way it can convey savagery and beauty beyond the word's mere definitions. I like how it's nothing more than it is while being everything it has to be. I simply love English. I love how easy it is to speak and understand, even when you're not speaking it correctly. My favorite poets are english, which is saying a lot, because English poetry has only been in vogue for about 230 years. They far out do the (not surprisingly rare) French poets I had to drag myself through in my first few years of college, and the Hebrew poets who've laid the foundation for, dare I say, beauty in language it's freagin' self. I love English for its own merrits.
Also, don't assume I only speak English. There is a reason why it has overtaken French as the international language.
Saying that English doesn't have the right words to translate an Eskimo monograph on the various usages of different snow types isn't bad-mouthing English. Most world languages have the same "fault." It's just that we're discussing English right now.
Of couse. I only need to proactively defend my mother tongue.
That's exactly my point. The term "bro" or "brother" in American culture conveys a partially different set of moral obligations, implications, and social mores. A nii-san isn't someone you take care of. He takes care of you. That's the traditional social role. Age also factors into it. A younger person could take care of an older person, and the older person could have a great deal of respect for that younger person, but the elder would not normally call the younger "nii-san," although the reverse is somewhat likely.
Thus, translating "nii-san" into "bro" or "big bro" is a little like replacing the term "angry" with the term "frustrated." On its own and in isolation, it kinda sorta works, but when you start layering on the statements and using it in dynamic situations and idioms, the thing fails completely.
"Elder Brother" would be a more correct translation, actually, except that Americans don't normally go around colloquially calling their older brothers "elder brother," by way of a casual, friendly reference.
"Bro" is a more commonplace, casual term and I would argue that it's technically more correct, since from what I know of American culture, many of the typical roles nii-sans are supposed to play are subsumed by that title.
We don't often call our older brother "elder brother" because it is implied when we say "How are you doing?"
"How are you doing (older brother)?"
We often will leave older brother out or will use the person name as a way of showing respect.
"How are you doing Travis?"
There are also worlds worth of information that is given with the English phrase "How are you doing?" It at the same time can and does ask for the speak to talk about both recent and past feeling and occurrences. It usually most often can mean "It's OK to get your problems of your chest. I'm hear to listen."
I quite often find that there is worlds of information that is implied within the English language that non native English speakers can often miss. Whether that is the case with this, I don't know, but I do know that it does happen.
"Nii-san" implies a lot in the Japanese culture and may only look like "elder brother" to an outsider such as an American. "Brother" can, and does, imply a lot in English and may only look like "blood related brother" to a Japanese person.
"Brother" can, and does, imply a lot in English and may only look like "blood related brother" to a Japanese person.
"My nii-san from another mother."
That's exactly my point. The term "bro" or "brother" in American culture conveys a partially different set of moral obligations, implications, and social mores. A nii-san isn't someone you take care of. He takes care of you.
The bold is what I said. If you have no parents to take care of you the sibling or friend that steps up to take care of you then becomes your "big brother" or "big sister." I think you misread what I wrote. That, or I suck at writing.
English is one of my native languages - the one I'm actually better at speaking and writing. I can't remember a time when I can't speak English but could speak other languages. I even think in English on occasion.
Of course, I speak Filipino English and not American English, so I'm not really acquainted with the idioms you crazy Northern guys use, but I think I can determine what's meant by "brother" in English.
That said, I also vaguely understans one other Western language - Spanish, and two other Philippine languages - Bisaya and Tagalog (though Tagalog is technically also Filipino), with varying degrees of fluency.
"Kuya" and "nii-san" are akin to each other in a lot of ways. Speaking of Filipino-Americans who have a solid grasp of the languages, most agree that "Kuya" is not properly conveyed as "brother," particularly because it doesn't convey the casual respect (as well as the various formal usages) reserved for your elder (who's also your brother).
I'm not as well-versed in Japanese as I am in Filipino, but let me tell you this: you cannot and should not translate "Kuya" into "Big Bro." It's just not the same. I get a distinct feeling that "nii-san" is the same way.
The bold is what I said. If you have no parents to take care of you the sibling or friend that steps up to take care of you then becomes your "big brother" or "big sister." I think you misread what I wrote. That, or I suck at writing.
No. I didn't. Nii-san doesn't refer to just any brother or sister who takes over the role of parent. A big premium is placed on age. He's got to be older than you. If he's younger, you don't normally call him "nii-san," even though he's performing the role you're supposed to be doing. There is, in fact, some pressure for him to make it look like you're doing it, even though he's the one doing all the actual work - for you to save face.