This is amusing...
www.wtop.com/?nid=456&sid=1951909
Or did he legally change his name? I suppose I'll never know.
Oh man! Id hate to be the person that ran over Lord Jesus Christ. Thats one of those things that you can never live down.
Quite literally, apparently - wasn't the guy that stabbed him with the spear eternally cursed to walk the earth til the end of days? lol
Oh man! Id hate to be the person that ran over Lord Jesus Christ. Thats one of those things that you can never live down.
Quite literally, apparently - wasn't the guy that stabbed him with the spear eternally cursed to walk the earth til the end of days? lol
I was told in my course of western religion that he was made a saint by the Church. Perhaps this curse legend is a later invention?
So, how would you guys feel if you ran over this guy?
"I guess not."
Quite literally, apparently - wasn't the guy that stabbed him with the spear eternally cursed to walk the earth til the end of days? lol
That sounds like a Catholic invention; it's not in the Bible.
I was told in my course of western religion that he was made a saint by the Church. Perhaps this curse legend is a later invention?
This doesn't sound right, either, but I could be wrong. The soldier doesn't even have a name in the text, so I don't think the Catholics can saint-ify him.
That's ... odd. I am reasonably certain that in order to be canonized, one must have performed confirmed miracles. In his Wiki entry, no miracles were mentioned. So how did he get to be a Saint? Unless converting to Christianity after stabbing the Son of God counts as a miracle or something.
EDIT: Further research found that sometimes people are referred to as 'Saints' unofficially. It is a common and accepted occurrence.
I still don't understand what a saint is exactly.
Saints are the Dilberts of Judeo/Christian/Islamic mythology, middle-management drones who can be promoted, demoted, hired or fired without any impact on the organization whatsoever.
I still don't understand what a saint is exactly.
In Biblical terms, it's any Christian. The catholic church uses the term differently, to mean a person whom the church officials have declared was "especially good", moreso than the average catholic. Under that system, one cannot be a saint until he or she has been dead for at least 50 years, and then there's a very involved process of qualifications.
I still don't understand what a saint is exactly.
In Biblical terms, it's any Christian. The catholic church uses the term differently, to mean a person whom the church officials have declared was "especially good", moreso than the average catholic. Under that system, one cannot be a saint until he or she has been dead for at least 50 years, and then there's a very involved process of qualifications.
But I thought they also had special powers. Are they higher beings because they have been elevated?
I still don't understand what a saint is exactly.
In Biblical terms, it's any Christian. The catholic church uses the term differently, to mean a person whom the church officials have declared was "especially good", moreso than the average catholic. Under that system, one cannot be a saint until he or she has been dead for at least 50 years, and then there's a very involved process of qualifications.
But I thought they also had special powers. Are they higher beings because they have been elevated?
No, in either case.
I still don't understand what a saint is exactly.
In Biblical terms, it's any Christian. The catholic church uses the term differently, to mean a person whom the church officials have declared was "especially good", moreso than the average catholic. Under that system, one cannot be a saint until he or she has been dead for at least 50 years, and then there's a very involved process of qualifications.
But I thought they also had special powers. Are they higher beings because they have been elevated?
No, in either case.
But I thought people prayed to the saints. That would imply they are at least some kind of intermediaries. I think Boraxe made a point like this.
But I thought people prayed to the saints. That would imply they are at least some kind of intermediaries. I think Boraxe made a point like this.
Some catholics do, particularly to Mary, and some traditions even regard them as intermediaries to God, but they are still fundamentally just human souls. Biblically, this is idolatry and is contrary to basically the entire New Testament.
Now, while I'm sure there are some that would consider this analogy blasphemy, I think it's roughly how the Saints are perceived to "work" as intermediaries. They have no power of their own, but they're more likely to hear requests and direct God's attention.
*BUMP* *BUMP* "Resurrect from that, bitch!" LOL
Biblically, this is idolatry and is contrary to basically the entire New Testament.
Is this what the Catholic church believes, or what other christians believe?
As I understand it, you can consider heaven to have a sort of celestian switchboard. Now, lots of people pray to God, so his line is always busy. The saints? Well, they dont' get quite so much attention, so you're more likely to get through to them. Then, if they think your prayer has merit, they'll go to God with your prayer for you. Now God, being the busy guy he is, often defers to his faithful subordinates, so when one of his saints says "Hey God, I got this guy on the line that..." he just says "Yeah, sure, whatever".
Now, while I'm sure there are some that would consider this analogy blasphemy, I think it's roughly how the Saints are perceived to "work" as intermediaries. They have no power of their own, but they're more likely to hear requests and direct God's attention.
This analogy was helpful for me.
Biblically, this is idolatry and is contrary to basically the entire New Testament.
Is this what the Catholic church believes, or what other christians believe?
Obviously, orthodox catholics don't believe it's idolatry. However, this is not a universal truth among catholic adherents.
Biblically, this is idolatry and is contrary to basically the entire New Testament.
Is this what the Catholic church believes, or what other christians believe?
What other Christians might believe.
Living in a Roman Catholic country and being religious once (I'm an atheist now), I have encountered no one who thinks praying to saints is considered idolatry: they do not pray to saints so hat their prayers would be answered. They pray to saints so that the saints may intercede for them, like a spokesperson. Catholics do not worship the saints, they... I forgot the term. Something like "adore", but leaning towards a more religous meaning.
Agh.
Biblically, this is idolatry and is contrary to basically the entire New Testament.
Is this what the Catholic church believes, or what other christians believe?
What other Christians might believe.
Living in a Roman Catholic country and being religious once (I'm an atheist now), I have encountered no one who thinks praying to saints is considered idolatry: they do not pray to saints so hat their prayers would be answered. They pray to saints so that the saints may intercede for them, like a spokesperson. Catholics do not worship the saints, they... I forgot the term. Something like "adore", but leaning towards a more religous meaning.
Agh.
See? Even God recogonizes the power of weak semantic technicality, when adheared to sufficently fervently!
In the simplest sense, a saint is someone who is believed to be already in Heaven. That means he or she has direct contact with God at all times. Comparing them to middle-management is not that far off I suppose.
The one cursed to walk the Earth until Second Coming was a Jew. People in middle-ages Europe hated Jews.
(except in Poland where one of the kings declared that spreading the Black Legend was a crime)
I think was Catholic would also fit the bill in answering the question.
I suppose, sorry for jumping in angrily.
If I don´t like comics like Preacher, Batle Pope, Rex Mundi or American Jesus... only I ignore them.. I never going to hurt anybody... never.
But only I say a thing to you. The real world isn´t like Dan Brown´s books. Forget the black legend againt Catholic Church and read webs like compass direct news.
Here in Spain, my land, the Red Terror, comunists and company killed for 30´s years more people that Inquisiton for all History. Spain has the sad record of Catholic martyrs from XX century . Don´t preach me about tolerance and coexiestence.
We aren´t the real menace to freedom and human rights. The Black Legend is only propaganda what exagerates the true events..
I don't think anyone is accusing the Catholic Church of anything, either. So.... yeah. No one is preaching anyone about tolerance and coexistance either. Just chill.
And does anyone believe in Dan Brown? That guy doesn't know what he's writing. :P
And does anyone believe in Dan Brown? That guy doesn't know what he's writing. :P
Sure he does. Fiction.
(Or am I thinking of someone else?)
And does anyone believe in Dan Brown? That guy doesn't know what he's writing. :P
There are people who believe Lady GaGa to be a NWO tool. Dan Brown is tame compared to this.
Let me paraphrase: Dan Brown didn't do enough research for his books that he claimed are "based on grounded facts." Now, anyone believing what Dan Brown wrote in his books is true is mad, to a certain degree. Because they are works of fiction. And badly researched fiction at that.
Why badly researched? First off, the title of The Da Vinci Code. That's just... ugh. Da Vinci is not Leonardo da Vinci's surname, or part of his name or whatever. It literally means "Leonardo of Vinci". It's like saying "Of Nazareth Christ". It's stupid.
Second, saying that the feminine image in The Last Supper by our Leo is supposedly Mary Magdalene--well, that's bullcrap. Every artist in Renaissance portrayed St. John the Beloved as a young, Italian man with feminine features and no facial hair.
And there are no monks in the Opus Dei.
You'll find lots of his blunders on the internet if you looked it up. My point stands: anyone believing Dan Brown's books are the shiz and are containing VERY TRUE OMG information should check their logic. It is fiction, my god. Enjoy it if you're into that, but don't think it's real.
Fiction based on history, religious iconography, religious teachings, and real organizations. The guy doesn't know what are actually factual in his "facts".
Yeah, but if Christianity repeats its history then the contents of his books will be treated as established lore a couple of hundred years from now. That whole 'Satan being cast down for leading a rebellion in Heaven' thing that many (most?) Christians treat as gospel (lol) came from Paradise Lost of all places, not any book of the Bible. You may hate him, but someday you'll have to call him Saint Brown.
Anyway, it's historical fiction. Anyone who gives it any weight at all is only slightly more in need of a life than the people who waste time ranting and railing against it.
Why badly researched? First off, the title of The Da Vinci Code. That's just... ugh. Da Vinci is not Leonardo da Vinci's surname, or part of his name or whatever. It literally means "Leonardo of Vinci". It's like saying "Of Nazareth Christ". It's stupid.
Yes and no. While id does mean literally "of Vinici" it was also his name. Back then, surnames (aka. last names) were not commonplace, so in order to differentiate oneself from every other Tom, Dick and Harry (literally) one adopted a personal surname. Such surnames were usually based on ones profession (Smith, Thatcher, Glazer), a recognizable personal trait (The Small, The Fat, Longshanks), a parent (Thompson, Freyasdottir) or a place of origin (Schwarzenegger, Van Buren, da Vinci).
So while "da Vinci" does mean "of Vinci" it was also his surname, and while other Vinci residents have also used the same name over the years he is by far the most famous and so using simply "da Vinci" in reference to him is both commonplace and acceptable.
Leonardo da Vinci was awesome enough on his own. All the Dan Brown rubbish is tame and lame compared to the stuff he actually did.
I actually find his paintings a bit lacking compared to other tit(i)ans of his era. ;)
The man was a genius though.
Kingdom of Heaven, the famous film by Ridley Scott. The true Crusades were really diferents. We are used to prejudices from anticatholic Black Legend. Their true goal or target is a subtext to make us to thing Vatican is menace to human rigths and freedom. People think we are mindless like the "church of the emperor" of warhammer 40.000 (or Cult of Sigmar of warhammer fantasy).
Comedy Central are going to make a cartoon show about J.C. Will it ofend Christians? It may be, but we aren´t like that furious people by a bear suit weared by... Isn´t it a double morality?
How could I explain better? Once I saw a Pink´s videoclip where the singer was at street and the wheels of her car were been bursted by hooligan... and a cop was near.... fine singer Pink by incorrect parking. Was he a good cop? I don´t like "cop-like" people who is cocky with me but a true coward to criticize other people.
Please, We haven´t problems or headache about Reason and Faith. We don´t need resign Faith nor Reason because we can reconcile both. There is a lot of Catholic webs of apologetic to talk about Inquisition, Crusades, Conquest of America and all those matters.
I´m annoyed because some people thinks Napoleon was a heroe or French Revolution was positive. They don´t know anything about the reign of terror (France, 1793-94). Do you know who was Torquemada? Yes, the famous Spanish inquisitor.... but how does many people know about Soviet chekas? and about Vietnam-Camboya war for 1978? (Both were comunist regimes)
I´m furious because while some ignorant people foment negative steriotipes (example: Jodie Foster playing a nun in "the dangerous live of Altar Boys) I read some news for Compass Direct (and others) about Christians of other countries who suffer great injustices. Some Copt girls from Egipt are being kidnapped... do you know? It isn´t a urban legend. There is cases with names and surnames.
Do you detest tortures for Middle Age? OK, we can´t be proud... but today members of Falung Gong was being tortured bu Chinese goverment. (you could look web the epoch times).
Was Ernesto "Che" Guevara a hero? He was a *CENSURED*!!! He was a terrorist, a criminal.... but Hollywood make two films about him... and Oliver Stone wishs make a second movie about Hugo Chavez, the "red gorilla" from Venezuela.
If somebody wants defend human rights and citizen rights.... he has got all my blessing, but, please, for love of God, the true priority are comunist countries like Chine, North Corea, Cuba, Bielorussia and Muslim lands like Saud Arabian, Egypt or Iran. (Recently some Christians were expeled from Morocco by proselytism).
I had to hear some stupy people who say for middle age Muslim Spain, Al-andalus, was a golden age of coexistence of Christians, Jews and Muslim. A big lie like a cathedral. We, the dhimmies, (Christians and Jews, the no-Muslim ones) suffered a aparheid-like system. We had to pay the yizya, a religious tax... and Muslim fought eatch other for the power (Arabian was the higest class, Bereber was the second one, Muladies or Iberian covert the lower status...).
Please, I´m bored always listeting time after time after time that... propaganda.
We aren´t perfect, but we don´t deserve that hostility. We aren´t the people who want to hurt or kill Salman Rushdie, Lars Vilks or Kurt Westergaard. Do you understand I meant?
* You should see that youtube video about TV debate: Is the Earth flat?
(...)I´m annoyed because some people thinks Napoleon was a heroe (...)
Did you know Napoleon is praised in the Polish national anthem? A verse in the second strophe could be translated as "Bonaparte showed us how to win". There is a historical reason for this:
In 1794 Poland finally lost independence to Prussia, Russia and Austria and ceased to be a country. Polish military ceased to exist, Polish culture was persecuted and rooted out.
And then, in early 19th century the Emperor of France starts kicking Prussian ass and is going for Russia. Naturally Polish cheered him and joined his forces.
The anthem is called "Mazurek Dąbrowskiego" in Polish, after General Dąbrowski, leader of the Italian Legions. Those Legions were part of Napoleon's army and their goal was to regain independence. That song was written specifically for them to sing.
In other words, Napoleon is viewed as a great tactician and harbinger of hope in Poland.
Thought I should clear this up.
First the spear of destiny. Now, what? The bumper of stupidity?
lol!!!
as for the "eternal Centurion"..
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casca_Rufio_Longin...
Love those books
snip
Er, I think you're being too defensive. I already told you no one is attacking the Catholic Church in this thread, so I don't see why you should defend it? I dunno. I mean, I was a devout Catholic* once and I won't defend it in a thread when no one is attacking it.
Anyway, it's historical fiction. Anyone who gives it any weight at all is only slightly more in need of a life than the people who waste time ranting and railing against it.
A lot of people attack the Catholic Church because of Dan Brown's books. I'm not against discrediting the power of Catholicism if you do have basis for it, but at least they should use real arguments that are not picked up in fiction. That's where the danger lies, and in my opinion that needs to be addressed.
Yes and no. While id does mean literally "of Vinici" it was also his name. Back then, surnames (aka. last names) were not commonplace, so in order to differentiate oneself from every other Tom, Dick and Harry (literally) one adopted a personal surname. Such surnames were usually based on ones profession (Smith, Thatcher, Glazer), a recognizable personal trait (The Small, The Fat, Longshanks), a parent (Thompson, Freyasdottir) or a place of origin (Schwarzenegger, Van Buren, da Vinci).
So while "da Vinci" does mean "of Vinci" it was also his surname, and while other Vinci residents have also used the same name over the years he is by far the most famous and so using simply "da Vinci" in reference to him is both commonplace and acceptable.
It is true that surnames evolved from occupational and location names, but within the context of the Renaissance Italy, he is surname-less. He is the bastard son of Ser Piero d'Antonio, thus he doesn't acquire his surname like a legitimate child.
If we will define a surname as just an identifier, yes "da Vinci" is will be his surname. But if we will define it both as an identifier and something that is inherited, "da Vinci" as a surname would be just silly.
*yes, your Spanish forefathers conquered the Philippines, thus my country is full of Catholics. Yay?
I actually find his paintings a bit lacking compared to other tit(i)ans of his era. ;)
The man was a genius though.
His paintings were among the least of his accomplishments.
As to being a genius, there is no doubt. The guy figured out how heart valves worked (something no one else did until the 20th century) by watching water in rivers and, using that knowledge, designed a potentially functional aritificial heart. In the 15th century.
Yeah, paintings were just a bonus with him. He was kinda cursed in a way, though. All that genius and nowhere near the amount of time needed to explore anywhere near all of it. Imagine what he could have come up with had he lived 500 years, ya know?
DaVinci's still "alive", didn't you know? They made him into a vampire. I read it in a book by a famous author, so it must be true...
Do you know the song "Laughing With" by Regina Spector? It´s a very beatiful music.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pxRXP3w-sQ
No one laughs at God in a hospital
No one laughs at God in a war
No one's laughing at God when they're starving or freezing or so very poor
No one laughs at God when the doctor calls after some routine tests
No one's laughing at God when it's gotten real late and their kid's not back from that party yet
No one laughs at God when their airplane starts to uncontrollably shake
No one's laughing at God when they see the one they love hand in hand with someone else and they hope that they're mistaken
No one laughs at God when the cops knock on their door and they say, "We've got some bad new, sir"
No one's laughing at God when there's a famine, fire or flood
But God can be funny
At a cocktail party while listening to a good God-themed joke or
Or when the crazies say he hates us and they get so red in the head you think that they're about to choke
God can be funny
When told he'll give you money if you just pray the right way
And when presented like a genie
Who does magic like Houdini
Or grants wishes like Jiminy Cricket and Santa Claus
God can be so hilarious
Ha ha
Ha ha
No one laughs at God in a hospital
No one laughs at God in a war
No one's laughing at God when they've lost all they got and they don't know what for
No one laughs at God on the day they realize that the last sight they'll ever see is a pair of hateful eyes
No one's laughing at God when they're saying their goodbyes
But God can be funny
At a cocktail party while listening to a good God-themed joke or
Or when the crazies say he hates us and they get so red in the head you think that they're about to choke
God can be funny
When told he'll give you money if you just pray the right way
And when presented like a genie
Who does magic like Houdini
Or grants wishes like Jiminy Cricket and Santa Claus
God can be so hilarious
No one laughs at God in a hospital
No one laughs at God in a war
No one laughs at God in a hospital
No one laughs at God in a war
No one's laughing at God in a hospital
No one's laughing at God in a war
No one's laughing at God when they're starving or freezing or so very poor
No one's laughing at God
No one's laughing at God
No one's laughing at God
We're all laughing with God
First the spear of destiny. Now, what? The bumper of stupidity?
lol!!!
as for the "eternal Centurion"..
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casca_Rufio_Longin...
Love those books
Now I have just remebered Roar, a TV serie, played the lead by a young Heath Ledger where the "evil lord" was exactly Longinus.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roar_(TV_series)
That is all.
But that is not all.
I think he's conflating our sacreligious humor with laughing at god.
We are not. We are laughing at religious people, and I would laugh at them in a hospital/war/etc. I would not, however, laugh at God.
That would require his explicit existence.