So I wanted to see on the forums who did not fit the (Mis?)conceptions about D&D players as a whole.
I will start by throwing myself out as a Firearm enthusiast who is in NO WAY SHY, and who originally picked the game up after breaking my knee too bad to run Track anymore. On the other hand I am as of now slightly overweight and "Boff".
Notice: Out of the "stereotypical" gamers I mentioned, only ONE of them was the bad kind of PR-Machine who makes you just want to follow them around with a "Its NOT D&D! THEY ARE JUST A NUT-JOB!!!" sign, the rest were nice if introverted people.
Archery (including building my own arrows), Hunting (big/small game, archery/gun), Target Shooting, Fishing (rarely), Reading (non-fantasy), Martial Arts, Amateur Archaeology (lookin' for stuff like arrowheads, etc) and likely more I can't think of right now. Sometimes I think I do too much. :P
Other crap that 'breaks the mold':
I own my own home (ok, the bank owns it and we pay the bank :P). With my fiancee. No, I did not build her from spare parts in my parents' garage. She's real. I have a social life beyond D&D - when I can find the time. The majority of my friends don't play. I do not play video games. I shower at least once daily. I can talk to girls. I can talk about stuff that's not D&D. And a ton of other crap, too. I'd add more but this bores me.
Well. I'm married, for a starter, have been for more than a year. Live in a nice 'uptown-ish' apartment. Hold a steady career job as a technical writer (We write owner's manuals because we get paid to. We make them obtuse because it's funny). I maintain daily personal hygene and frequently cook a dinner that doesn't come out of a box or a bag. Own a dog and a cat, neither of which are overweight. Also, I easily separate reality from fantasy and have a strict hierarchy where my family, health, career, and financial stability come before gaming.
On the other hand, I am balding at an... early... age. Both my wife and I enjoy fantasy novels (though she won't play D&D). And I do enjoy video games, especially RPGs.
I am overweight, however, and rather introverted.
I shower regularly.
I don't read fantasy novels (or any kinds of novels).
I don't watch anime (this is seems to be a local stereotype, at least).
I own my own home. It is, however, really messy.
Hrm... I am a comic book nerd, play a lot of computer and video games (when I have time, anyway. Not much time lately), a computer nerd (degree in computer science and all), read fantasy science fiction (again, when I have time)...
... on the other hand, I'm good on the personal hygiene thing, moved out of my parent's house when I was 17, have a live-in SO of several years, and have reasonably good hand-writing, and though I'm not the life of the party I'm polite (if a bit distant).
So take from that what you will.
I ran track and field for five years
I have a job that in no way is related to gaming or comics
However I do go to college for Game Design and Development
so I fall into the mold by career choiceI'm by no means an introvert, I've held the same job for the last 15 years and been playing D&D since around '83. I don't read comic books, although I do remember a time when I did. Anime doesn't trip my trigger. I have more fun arguing politics and debating religion than playing computer games.
Who knows? Maybe the stereotype exists. I haven't seen it, so I can't say.
I personally HAVE met a good number of the people who are the stereotype, but I dont think they are in any way are the majority.(In the bible belt they seem to be a large group though.)
Apparantly that "believe in yourself" crap works.
The "D&D geek" stereotype generally seems to fall in three types: poindexterish ultra-nerd; unwashed, overweight comicbook-guy type; and asocial weirdo (or some combination of the three). I've been playing D&D for a very long time and in my experience gamers that fit into those stereotypes are a very small minority and no more popular among the rest of the gaming community than they are elsewhere.
Hmm..... what's the asocial weirdo sterotype?
Hrm... I am a comic book nerd, play a lot of computer and video games (when I have time, anyway. Not much time lately), a computer nerd (degree in computer science and all), read fantasy science fiction (again, when I have time)...
... on the other hand, I'm good on the personal hygiene thing, moved out of my parent's house when I was 17, have a live-in SO of several years, and have reasonably good hand-writing, and though I'm not the life of the party I'm polite (if a bit distant).
So take from that what you will.
I don't think there is a sterotype about DnD players not having "SO"s but rather one of them not having, specificall, "Girlfriends" of the intimate variaty. :P
By that same token I frequent a forum about D&D. So there you go.
Being one: frequent this site, read fantasy novels, play NWN1 (a lot), have more rulebooks/supplements/sourcebooks and dice that i really need. oh and i role-play! :D
Not: married, own my own home, kids, play guitar (to a decent level of competence), listen to many styles of music, social, can talk about things other than the new 4e, that new campaign setting or that new adventure/story arc...
But, TBH I'd rather spend my money on a sourcebook, that i will refer to again and again, than p*** it up the wall on a friday night at my local only because the landlord has turned into a grumpy old sod!
maybe we should ALL change our profile pictures to actual photos!!!
maybe we should ALL change our profile pictures to actual photos!!!
Mine is an actual photo.
maybe we should ALL change our profile pictures to actual photos!!!
Mine is an actual photo.
So's mine. I was looking really good that day, thank the Gods for small mercies. I generally hate posting real photos of myself, but I just had to brag about this one.
Like all stereotypes, there is enough there that perpetuates them. I can list a bunch of things that are "against" the mold, but I can also list things which "fit" the stereotype. But the reason the stereotype exists is that certain things are more common than others.
For the exception of "bad smelling" (which I think is perpetuated by hobby stores), I'd think most stereotypes are present in most of our groups. I'd think that most stereotypes are present in most groups.
For example, I'm not fat, but there are 2 clearly fat people in my group with another that sometimes plays. I'm married, but all the other members are single (some pretty awkward). One or two members are fairly social, but others (including myself) are pretty anti-social. We all talk about video games. There have been conversation about anime and fantasy novels. Etc (I don't know what are the other typical stereotypes)
My point is that even if you don't enbody the stereotype and do things which "break from the mold", as a whole, more people perpetuate the stereotype than not. For example, I'm willing to bet that more people who play DnD likes video games than racing cars. There are more anime fans than football players. There are more fat people than fit people. It doesn't mean that everyone is a fat video game player who likes anime, but they are more common than fit, race car driving, football players.
Stereotypes often exist for a reason.
Then again I live in the South and we do tend to be more active than other areas overall. That or, those of us that aren't fit, and capable of being social etc are killed because we can't escape the bible thumpers
Most of America is fat though (and a third being really really fat) so it wouldn't surprise me to learn that most gamers are fat or obese.
Stereotypes often exist for a reason.
Soooo .... you're, like, good at math? Sorry, sorry. I couldn't help it. Cuz I'm a white dood. :P
I don't think the stereotype is that common these days myself. I've only known one guy really that you could just tell is a gamer by looking at him and being upwind of him.... *retches*. Most of the other gamers I know with a few exceptions (four) have SOs, aren't fat or smelly. And only two of those really aren't capable of being social.
Then again I live in the South and we do tend to be more active than other areas overall. That or, those of us that aren't fit, and capable of being social etc are killed because we can't escape the bible thumpers
Most of America is fat though (and a third being really really fat) so it wouldn't surprise me to learn that most gamers are fat or obese.
My point isn't that most DnD players are the stereotype. My point is that most DnD players probably have some stereotypical behavior. And that many of these stereotypical behaviors are dominate in their groups.
For example, video game conversation is probably more common than American Idol conversation. It doesn't mean that everyone has to like video games, but it is more common than other things. Now do the same for other things and you get the stereotypes.
I think if we made a big list of the DnD stereotypes, most people would say they or someone in their group fits most individual traits. And these traits would be more common than DnD players who rebuild cars or go to fashion shows.
And I think the smelly thing is perpetuated by hobby stores where you have lots of people in an enclosed space. So not only is that going to smell bad, but one bad smeller really makes the whole situation worse.
Hmm..... what's the asocial weirdo sterotype?
My point isn't that most DnD players are the stereotype. My point is that most DnD players probably have some stereotypical behavior. And that many of these stereotypical behaviors are dominate in their groups.
Or not.
For example, video game conversation is probably more common than American Idol conversation. It doesn't mean that everyone has to like video games, but it is more common than other things. Now do the same for other things and you get the stereotypes.
Video games are a mainstream industry. It is likely to be just as common a hobby and point of discussion among non-D&D players as among them.
I think if we made a big list of the DnD stereotypes, most people would say they or someone in their group fits most individual traits. And these traits would be more common than DnD players who rebuild cars or go to fashion shows.
If the examples of D&D stereotypes are as general as "plays video games" and the non-stereotypical behaviour is as niche as "rebuild cars or go to fashion shows" then the majority of the non-D&D playing public will fit them just as well.
And I think the smelly thing is perpetuated by hobby stores where you have lots of people in an enclosed space. So not only is that going to smell bad, but one bad smeller really makes the whole situation worse.
Key phrase highlighted. You argue that most gamers fit the stereotypes and then that this stereotype is not actually true. Which is it?
Video games are a mainstream industry. It is likely to be just as common a hobby and point of discussion among non-D&D players as among them.
If the examples of D&D stereotypes are as general as "plays video games" and the non-stereotypical behaviour is as niche as "rebuild cars or go to fashion shows" then the majority of the non-D&D playing public will fit them just as well.
Video games was just a common example used in the DnD stereotype. Its can be made a niche like Square RPGs or the comparator can be made larger like "watching American Idol" or "going shoe shopping" or whatever. Again, while it doesn't fit everyone, its just more likely that certain groups have similarities.
Just look at advertisement. If you watch a football game, you see beer and truck commercials. If you watch a tennis match, you see investing and luxary car commercials. Why? Because certain groups are more likely to have certain stereotypes. Its doesn't mean that everyone who watches football is a drunk hick or everyone who watches tennis is rich, but certain groups have certain likely traits.
I don't have numbers, but would you say American sports (Football if you need more specific) is about as popular as video games (Square RPGs if you need more specific)? Do you think more DnD fans would know what "Omnislash" is or what "the quick slant" is? Or Yuna versus Larry Fitzgerald?
To simply the argument, think of it like this: if you made a list of the traits of DnD players, you'd have a statistically higher occurance of the "stereotype" traits than the average for the "normal" populace. So while not everyone possesses all the traits, the traits are more represented than a "control" sample would be.
Key phrase highlighted. You argue that most gamers fit the stereotypes and then that this stereotype is not actually true. Which is it?
I am not arguing that most gamers fit stereotypes. I am saying that many DnD players have traits which fit certain stereotypes. Example, you can like fantasy novels, but it doesn't mean you are a stereotypical fat, comic book geek who lives in your mother's basement. I'm saying that when you combine similar traits possessed, you have that caricature.
And if you read my initial post on the subject, I said that most traits with the exception of "bad smelling" are probably likely in many groups. Then I stated why I believe the smelly trait is perpetuated.
Wow, that guy looks psychotic actually.
You ... you've never seen Office Space? Whoa ... :P
I have no idea what an Omnislash is or who Yuma is supposed to be. I can, however, tell you that Larry Fitzgerald can run a mean quick slant - though I'd rather see him go deep. ;)
I have no idea what an Omnislash is or who Yuma is supposed to be. I can, however, tell you that Larry Fitzgerald can run a mean quick slant - though I'd rather see him go deep. ;)
Yeah, but I would guess you are in the minority for DnD players. Not everyone from group A does activity X. Its just group A has a higher occurance of X than the "normal" populace. So group A has the stereotypes of X.
And I knew you would make such a comment!
I can, however, tell you that Larry Fitzgerald can run a mean quick slant - though I'd rather see him go deep. ;)
I have no idea what that means in context (is it a racing thing?) but out of context it sounds kinda hot.
On another note, I find it curious that you [Scypio] think you've narrowed it down to where a stereotype comes from.
And I knew you would make such a comment!
Am I that predictable? Aww. :P
I have no idea what that means in context (is it a racing thing?) but out of context it sounds kinda hot.
Nah, American football. LF is one of the best wide receivers in the game. Plays for the Super Bowl runner up Arizona Cardinals. Hmm. Goin' deep, wide receiver ... didn't make it any less hot, did it? :P
On another note, I find it curious that you think you've narrowed it down to where a stereotype comes from.
Who? Me?
EDIT: All this nonsense makes me miss Madden as an announcer that much more. My friend and I would listen to him just waiting for him to say something that could be taken the wrong way. One of my favorites had something to do with the quarterback trying to slam it hard to the tight end. Yeah, Madden was great. Just think about the fun when there were players on the field named 'Gay'. I swear I remember hearing him say something about a ball hitting Gay right in the mouth. It did, but that doesn't make it any less funny.
You ... you've never seen Office Space? Whoa ... :P
Indeed.
I have no idea what an Omnislash is or who Yuma is supposed to be. I can, however, tell you that Larry Fitzgerald can run a mean quick slant - though I'd rather see him go deep. ;)
I've no idea who either of them are or what an "Omnilash" is.
Nah, American football. LF is one of the best wide receivers in the game. Plays for the Super Bowl runner up Arizona Cardinals. Hmm. Goin' deep, wide receiver ... didn't make it any less hot, did it? :P
I'll refrain from comment.
On another note, I find it curious that you think you've narrowed it down to where a stereotype comes from.
Nah, Scypio. Edited the original post for clarity.
I'll refrain from comment.
Boo! :P
Nah, Scypio. Edited the original post for clarity.
Yeah, I thought so. But I can never be exactly sure of what I said. ;)
Nah, Scypio. Edited the original post for clarity.
I was also unsure who you were refering to with your comment. Do you mean the "smelly" stereotype or the argument about certain traits leading to stereotypes?
Not everyone from group A does activity X. Its just group A has a higher occurance of X than the "normal" populace. So group A has the stereotypes of X.
^
This. I find such a simplistic view of where and how stereotypes are formed to be very... interesting, for lack of a better word.
^
This. I find such a simplistic view of where and how stereotypes are formed to be very... interesting, for lack of a better word.
Well, I don't think stereotypes are entirely described by a statement like that. There are definately many other factors (historical, cultural, economic, etc) that can go into how groups preceive other groups.
But since the separation between objects of the stereotype (DnD players) and holders of the stereotype (non-players) is not great, the simplistic core of the stereotype is not as shrouded. There aren't huge cultural differences which cloud the base of the stereotype, for example.
But with all that said, I do think that many stereotypes (especially the one in question) are started and perpetuated by a perceived group deviation from the norm. But I do not propose that it is how all stereotypes are started or perpetuated.
However: I am not shy, while I work in the IT field , I work in a job where I have to have lots of people skills and be assertive as well. I have good hygiene. I have been in a relationship for most of the last 5 years ( lacking a couple months on both ends of that time line). I own my own home / car, and am self dependent. I can separate reality from fantasy.
I am a horrible speller… ( not sure if that fits under the stereotype or against it, seems to depend on whom I speak too.)
--
In addition, of all the people I have gamed with over the years.. I can’t say any fit the type completely , and only 2 whom fit it mostly ( on the negative connotations of it anyway). They no longer game with me . hygiene is important.. as well as not drooling over an invited girl to the game.
.. as well as not drooling over an invited girl to the game.
We used to just say that if you were gonna bring one for yourself, you had to bring one for the rest of the group, too. But that got really expensive.
.. as well as not drooling over an invited girl to the game.
We used to just say that if you were gonna bring one for yourself, you had to bring one for the rest of the group, too. But that got really expensive.
LOL.... but then , if everyone at the table had a girl there with them.. would any D&D get done :P so it seems it may be both expensive & counterproductive..
LOL.... but then , if everyone at the table had a girl there with them.. would any D&D get done :P so it seems it may be both expensive & counterproductive..
What the hell is 'D&D'?
I like Stereotypes, their fun to play with.
How stereotypical of you.
LOL.... but then , if everyone at the table had a girl there with them.. would any D&D get done :P so it seems it may be both expensive & counterproductive..
What the hell is 'D&D'?
Dungeons & Drag Queens
...
right?
maybe we should ALL change our profile pictures to actual photos!!!
Mine is an actual photo.
Mine is an actual photo too. Actually, mine is two actual photos, shoped together. I even took one of them myself!
Hmm..... what's the asocial weirdo sterotype?
.....
crap
.. as well as not drooling over an invited girl to the game.
We used to just say that if you were gonna bring one for yourself, you had to bring one for the rest of the group, too. But that got really expensive.
LOL.... but then , if everyone at the table had a girl there with them.. would any D&D get done :P so it seems it may be both expensive & counterproductive..
Yes. My experience may not strictly be "everyone at the table had a girl there with them", but "everyone at the table had their SO there with them", but I think it suits well enough.
I'm overweight, can't talk to girls, enjoy anime and video games, don't go outside much, live with my parents...
I'm the dad-gum king.
But guess what? This is just who I am, and I don't apologize for it. It really annoys me when people want to disown guys like me because it makes them look bad. It makes me feel like crap (Yes, I have feelings) and is absolutely selfish. Reminds me of being thrown in the trash can by the football players and having dodge balls thrown at me by my own team.
Not saying that anyone here is like that, but there are people. There are people.
Wow, that guy looks psychotic actually.
You ... you've never seen Office Space? Whoa ... :P
I have no idea what an Omnislash is or who Yuma is supposed to be. I can, however, tell you that Larry Fitzgerald can run a mean quick slant - though I'd rather see him go deep. ;)
Nope never seen it.
I try not to watch alot of tv.
Let's see... overweight? I'm a little pudgie but have some muscle packed on too (unfortunately not on my arms...).
Rank? Not unless I've been working. I shower throughly.
Lazy? That depends on certain things.
Antisocial? Well not entirely; my problem is that I don't know what to talk about around people I do not know. I pefer to listen to what such people have to say should they have something to say to me.
Live in parent's basement? Out of financial necessity.
Do I fit as a stereotypical gamer? Perhaps with the things I mentioned but I'm more dynamic than that. I could list things that might not be "stereotypical gamer" material but that would be boring.
Overweight: 114 lbs is overweight. I'm such a heffer.
BO: After P.E.
Anti-social: I'm a f***ing social butterfly!
Akward around girls: I'm more comfortable around girls.
Lazy: I prefer the term sloth than you very much.
Lives in mom's basement: I'm jailbait, the law mandates it.
Let's see... overweight? I'm a little pudgie but have some muscle packed on too (unfortunately not on my arms...).
"Well hey there muscley arms. Got any good news for me today?" -Mr. Herbert, Family Guy
Rank? Not unless I've been working. I shower throughly.
What, like napalm in the morn? "I like your musk..." -Anchorman
Lazy? That depends on certain things.
It's kind of the laziness to not $#!^, shower, and shave thing that constitutes the bulk of the slander I thought. Laziness to not hang up the WoW/fav series 'x'/etc to houseclean, bills, spend time w/ friends & family also fits the bill I guess.
Antisocial? Well not entirely; my problem is that I don't know what to talk about around people I do not know. I pefer to listen to what such people have to say should they have something to say to me.
"It is better to keep one's mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt." Or, if you prefer, better to be a person that listens than those who wait to talk. Antisocial and conversationally pragmatic, dare-I-say "shy", aren't the same thing. You're fine, no worries.
Live in parent's basement? Out of financial necessity.
Ah, well, that is a problem to which I sympathize. But to be fair, in this econ...uh, yeah. Plenty of "normal" guys/girls previously on top of the world got the $#!^ end of the stick and are adrift in a sea of financial misery...brought to you by your federal govt! Cheers! Keep gaming; books are already paid for, longer/cheaper than a movie + no sticky floors (I hope).
Do I fit as a stereotypical gamer? Perhaps with the things I mentioned but I'm more dynamic than that. I could list things that might not be "stereotypical gamer" material but that would be boring.
Yes and no, but it is your honesty & forthrightness in confession/etc. here that helps destroy that negative convention. ie) most (stereotypical) are in denial, mask their perceived or real inadequacies, anything to take the easy out->stay in their rut (comfort zone) out of fear of change maybe. "There is no witness more damning than a man's own conscience." For what it's worth, I don't think it's as bad as you feel, but I digress, it's your cross to bear, not mine out here on the sidelines to which I'm sorry. Buy ya' a beer or something...
Plus, these days, as pop-culture, society, and the population have grown and blurred (a lot), it's not as easy to pigeonhole person 'x' as 'x' anymore. Geek culture is kinda' cool (marketable) now. Society is more tolerant of previously stigmatize concepts now (gaming, sex, humor, etc), but more close-minded in other venues (poli-sci, religion, foreign affairs). And the population, that's easy. 300 million of us (US)...more gamers than ever before = more exposure, social x-pollination, whatever. I've a few friends in my gaming repetoire that, at passing glance, many would peg as "stereotypical gamers". But upon social dissection it became clear that despite that cursory once over, quite a few get more ass than a toilet despite initial physicality, are sociable above and beyond last night's "Survivor" or what Paris was wearing @ the gala, and are better adjusted than arguably "normal, mainstream" types.
ie) most of the slings & arrows said stereotypical gamers endure are often hefted from those clandestine glass houses I keep seeing, of which, their "neighborhoods" are larger than "our's" and have more issues too, hence the social censoring. Too busy condemning harmless 3rd parties to see their own misgivings, cruelty, & ignorance.
I try not to watch alot of tv.
It's a movie.
But guess what? This is just who I am, and I don't apologize for it.
Ain't no reason to apologize. Be you. Do what you do. Be as happy as you can. The end. ;)
Sometimes that gets you banned....
Well, I guess that I should have also mentioned ... hmm ... uhh ... hehehehehheheheheheeee! :P