Not The Sort of Thing This Great Hobby Needs

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

Dargurd

Jul 05, 2010 13:43:59
Hi folks,

Just read this local news story. Really not the sort of thing our hobby needs especially when people like myself run a D&D game for a group of 12 year olds. There are some real sickos out there.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/lancashire/1...

Regards...
#2

calronmoonflower

Jul 05, 2010 19:10:55
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#3

yellowdingo

Jul 05, 2010 19:14:11
"Kill Him!"
#4

williamhm75

Jul 05, 2010 19:52:59
"Kill Him!"



yes. **** and child abuse should be punishable by death.
#5

pbn

Jul 05, 2010 22:42:47
yes. **** and child abuse should be punishable by death.


disclaimer: I'm pro-death penatly.  That said - that's a bit harsh.  Without investigating the child abuse statistics, I leave you this to consider (from Wiki):

In 1994, Dr. Eugene J. Kanin of Purdue University investigated the incidences, in one small unidentified urban community, of false **** allegations made to the police between 1978 and 1987. Dr. Kanin asserts that "unlike those in many larger jurisdictions, this police department had the resources to "seriously record and pursue to closure all **** complaints, regardless of their merits". He further states each investigation "always involves a serious offer to polygraph the complainants and the suspects." and "the complainant must admit that no **** had occurred. She is the sole agent who can say that the **** charge is false." The falseness of the allegations was not decided by the police, Dr. Kanin, nor upon physical or testimonial evidence. The number of false **** allegations concluded in the studied period was 45; this was 41% of the 109 total complaints filed in this period. In Dr. Kanin's research, the complainants who made false allegations did so (by their own statements during recantation) for one or some combination of three major reasons:
  • providing an alibi. Dr. Kanin's report describes a woman who got into a bar fight and, fearing that this might prevent her from regaining custody of her children, filed a **** complaint to account for her injuries.

  • a means of gaining revenge. Dr. Kanin's report describes an 18 year old woman who engages in consensual sex with a boarder staying at her house. After he refuses to continue their relationship she accuses him of ****.

  • a platform for seeking attention/sympathy. Dr. Kanin's report describes a woman who becomes attracted to her therapist and in an attempt to elicit sympathy from him fabricates a story of **** and is subsequently pressured by him to report it to the police. Dr. Kanin also looked at the police records of two large mid western state universities and found that, of the 64 **** accusations, 32 (50%) were eventually recanted. Unlike the city police in the other study, the university police did not use polygraph examinations and the investigations were all performed by female officers. This figure also forms a lower estimate of the total number of false accusations reported to the police during this period and it is similarly possible that there were false accusations that were never recanted and resulted in convictions. However Kanin warns against reading too much into his results: "Certainly our intent is not to suggest that the 41 percent incidence found here be extrapolated to other populations, particularly in light of our ignorance regarding the structural variables."[13]




So - better that 45 innocent men die, so that 54 can be justly put to death?
#6

pigknight

Jul 05, 2010 23:19:00
He mkes Dungeon Master sound even more BDSM-y than normal....
#7

feyberry

Jul 06, 2010 0:57:07
This is partly why I use Narrator instead of Dungeon Master or Game Master.  It especially works since I always describe roleplaying as the same thing as improv stage plays without a set.
#8

boraxe

Jul 06, 2010 8:55:20
What's this stuff about playing on a comuter and then acting it out? Sounds to me like it may have nothing to do with D&D at all, rather their reasearch staff simply Googled "roleplaying games" and picked D&D cos it was first and cos "dungeon master" sounded menacing and perverse.
#9

zombie_babies

Jul 06, 2010 9:20:58
Yeah, it doesn't seem like D&D had much of anything to do with it, really.  He used the trust his MA teaching garnered him to pull this crap off.  Whatever happened beyond that point - be it RP or trampolining - is incidental.
#10

Klirshon

Jul 06, 2010 9:25:35
It is possible it could have been one of the gold-box games such as Pool of Radiance (not sure why the younger generation would like those games though). Regardless of what the actual game was (be it relative to D&D or not), there wasn't a necessity to specify what type of game or the brand it belongs to. The only relevant information was the sod lured children through various means which included games.

Other then that, the bugger is behind bars for a decade or more depending on how he behaves. I would have preferred him as a research specimen instead. I suppose I'll have to find someone else that no one will miss.
#11

erato

Jul 06, 2010 11:06:45

disclaimer: I'm pro-death penatly.  That said - that's a bit harsh.  Without investigating the child abuse statistics, I leave you this to consider (from Wiki):

Completely off-topic (then again, considering the board....), but that article used female pronouns, which, from what I've been told about English grammar, is incorrect. I'm noting this because a lot of the people lecturing me about English grammar seem to overlook things like that, which makes them very annoying to get lectured by.

Anyway, I don't think this case will reflect badly on D&D any more than on martial arts a computers. It's just one of several activities he used as a cover, and the article doesn't go to great lengths to link it to D&D specifically, despite the headline (and who can blame them for taking notice of a creepy title like 'dungeon master'?).

#12

jetshield

Jul 06, 2010 12:59:24
Completely off-topic (then again, considering the board....), but that article used female pronouns, which, from what I've been told about English grammar, is incorrect. I'm noting this because a lot of the people lecturing me about English grammar seem to overlook things like that, which makes them very annoying to get lectured by.



The article used female pronouns where they were appropriate.
If you wish to learn more:  www.towson.edu/ows/pronouns.htm
and:  www.writingcentre.uottawa.ca/hypergramma...


On topic, 17 counts....only 10 years?
#13

erato

Jul 06, 2010 14:28:32
The article used female pronouns where they were appropriate.
If you wish to learn more:  www.towson.edu/ows/pronouns.htm
and:  www.writingcentre.uottawa.ca/hypergramma...

I know the pronouns. But I usually use they/them/their as neutral third person singular pronouns (since English doesn't bother to distinguish between singular and plural you, I don't see the problem in using both plural and singular they, it sounds completely natural to me), or I use s/he, he or she, or something similar, because that what sounds best and makes most sense to me. But I've been told that in all cases where the singular pronoun is not referring to a specific person of known gender, I'm supposed to use the masculine pronouns he/him/his because that's the only logical and neutral way of doing it, and that anything else is wrong and sexist and politically correct.

And yet, the people who claim this frequently don't follow their own rules. They'll use the masculine pronoun most of the time, but when referring to someone who could be a man, but is most likely to be a woman, they use female pronouns, such as in the case of nurses, hookers, and secretaries. Since I have been told that male pronouns are both masculine and neutral (which I believe English speaking people would refer to as an oxymoron, except people are serious about it), while female pronouns are exclusive by nature, the use of a female pronoun from these people must mean that they're deliberately excluding men. And that's sexist. So every secretary, stripper, prostitute, nurse, and (in this case) **** victim should correctly be referred to as male, or rather, referred to by neutral male pronouns.


So anyway, I was just remarking (as a confused foreigner) that this article referred to the **** victims, or alleged **** victims, as female, and yet, **** victims don't have to be female. Of course, it could be that there was no report from any boy/man among any of the complainants (which is strange, I would have expected at least a few % even when it's under-reported), but the professor seemed to be referring to the method of experiment in general (e.g. the hypothetical complainant), which again should have caused a shift to male pronouns.

#14

MechaPilot

Jul 06, 2010 14:41:45
Meh.  I don't think it will affect D&D's social standing (not that there's much there to affect to begin with).  I mean candy hasn't gotten any worse of a rap since sickos started using it to lure unsuspecting children.
#15

toastedamphibian

Jul 06, 2010 15:03:00
Meh.  I don't think it will affect D&D's social standing (not that there's much there to affect to begin with).  I mean candy hasn't gotten any worse of a rap since sickos started using it to lure unsuspecting children.



And shoes never developed a reputation for causing mental illness, despite the fact that alot of people wear them before going insane.
#16

boraxe

Jul 06, 2010 15:10:03
So anyway, I was just remarking (as a confused foreigner) that this article referred to the **** victims, or alleged **** victims, as female, and yet, **** victims don't have to be female.


The ones referenced in the article clearly were.
#17

zombie_babies

Jul 06, 2010 15:15:09
I wear shoes daily.  Watch out mutha****as.
#18

pbn

Jul 06, 2010 16:57:06
So anyway, I was just remarking (as a confused foreigner) that this article referred to the **** victims, or alleged **** victims, as female, and yet, **** victims don't have to be female. Of course, it could be that there was no report from any boy/man among any of the complainants (which is strange, I would have expected at least a few % even when it's under-reported), but the professor seemed to be referring to the method of experiment in general (e.g. the hypothetical complainant), which again should have caused a shift to male pronouns.


The confusion, I believe, Erato, is one of context.  In the larger article it describes that the number of female on male, male on male, and female on female incidences are neglible (forget the #, but along the lines of less than one per thousand) and not generally considered.  So in this case, the "She" is specifically referring to females making said allegations against males.
#19

ravel8

Jul 07, 2010 23:02:24
Ok i feel i'm going to hate my self for replaying to this post , but the articale staid that he played dnd in the club house and then latter lured them to his house for computer games , so it's  toatally compluter games turn to be the scape goat .

Second why do we call these child molesters , when their child rapists . Are we trying not to prejudge them , or make there horrible act sound better . Why are we collding these people ?
#20

MechaPilot

Jul 07, 2010 23:11:03
Second why do we call these child molesters , when their child rapists . Are we trying not to prejudge them , or make there horrible act sound better . Why are we collding these people ?



One of those terms implicitly includes the use of force/violence while the other does not.  It's the same difference between extortion and armed robbery.
#21

EscherEnigma

Jul 07, 2010 23:35:15
Second why do we call these child molesters , when their child rapists . Are we trying not to prejudge them , or make there horrible act sound better . Why are we collding these people ?


Because while all child rapists are child molesters, not all child molesters are child rapists.
#22

toastedamphibian

Jul 07, 2010 23:55:34
Some just like to Fondle!
#23

ravel8

Jul 08, 2010 0:31:18
..... no words
#24

EscherEnigma

Jul 08, 2010 0:33:08
Well, that and sometimes the kid says yes.  There's a reason "statutory ****" has that extra word attached.
#25

EscherEnigma

Jul 08, 2010 0:49:34
What would be the minimum age for statutory ****?


Um... 0?  Or did you mean maximum?  In that case, it varies by local law.  And in some cases by the sex of the minor and in some cases by whether or not the sex is straight or not.
#26

Pinnacle

Jul 08, 2010 1:09:58
In that case, it varies by local law.  And in some cases by the sex of the minor and in some cases by whether or not the sex is straight or not.


There's also frequently  an exception if there isn't much difference in age.

I think a typical statutory **** law refers to an adult (over 18) having sex with someone below the age of 16 who is also more than four years younger than him or her.
But I haven't actually looked into it in years, and that was just due to a mild interest in the subject.  I was not planning any activity that risked apprehensively approaching the boundary close enough to see it with a telescope, I assure you.
I'm a good boy.
#27

monstro

Jul 08, 2010 6:40:05
I was saying according yo you. To me a 16 years old could engage in sexual relations with an adult without his parents worrying to much about it. 12 years old is pretty low.



In the US, the laws and customs are drastically different from those of other countries.  We're more inclined to ask when a person can responsibly make decisions about sex rather than when their bodies can engage.  Remember, big country--irresponsible parents can disapear a heck of a lot easier than they can in most countries in Europe.  Thus, the focus of the law is in preventing people from having to take care of their grandchildren (and whether we want 12 year old mothers becoming wards of the state).

I've taught Lolita to adults with kids and believe you me, they do NOT think that sex between a 12 year old and an adult is sort of odd...they argue that it is downright horrible (and that there is something wrong with the prof who assigns it).  They are a not much more understanding when Lolita grows up a bit.  It did not help when I mentioned that Elvis Prestly basically trained a 14 year old Priscilla to be his wife and nobody seemed to care much about that (they were actually more mad at me for bringing it up).

Btw, it's been awhile since I read Lolita, nobody harsh me if she starts out younger than 12, but I think that's where she starts.  Nabokov, a Russian, is as much poking fun at the sexual morrays of Americans as he is the acceptance of other Europeans.

#28

bone_naga

Jul 08, 2010 7:19:53
16 is the age of consent for the US Military. However, if state or host nation laws have it set higher you have to abide by those too.
#29

boraxe

Jul 08, 2010 8:30:52
This clip giveds a tiny glimpse into how messed up the laws are regarding age of consent: www.youtube.com/watch?v=eD4cCUq29hA